itch vaccine

Is it a staged event merely for betting purposes? Could it really be rigged? Are players really bought and matches being staged beforehand to the bookie's advantage?

It has bothered me every world cup whether a match is fixed or not. The last WC, France lost to Senegal, and everyone was complaining it was fixed. Once again, Frace drew to Switzerland this year, and Henry is not performing (he never performs under his WC team) - Could he have been bought?

3 goals by Australia in the last 8 minutes. Could this be a desperate attempt by bookies to cash in on score predictions by punters?

In Asia, bettings are "Handicap", i.e. you give a certain no. of balls to the opposing team for advantage over the game. Sometimes, when too many bets are on one side, the game always seem to favour the bookies. "A heavy boat will sink" so they say. This time, it was the Brazil - Croatia match. Only 1-0? Are you kidding me? The handicap being 1.5 to Croatia, and whoever that gave the handicap and took Brazil would've lost their wager. No surprise as Brazil were the favourites that night, regardless of the handicap.

So what do you think? Is it really just a show?

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When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours.
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Grasshopper Green

All I know is hubby and I just watched the Paraguay/Sweden match, and everyone was surprised that the only goal scored was in the 88th minute. However, I never would have considered it to be rigged.

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Formerly Medusa

ASU2003

That would be a lot of people and players you would have to pay off and keep quiet. Maybe 'some' games they could get away with that, like your Brazil example. If the Asian bookies would pay 25% of their profits to the Brazil team if they only scored one goal more than their opponent in just the first game, team Brazil would make lots of money, but nobody would investigate it if it only happened once.

madp

The World Cup is DEFINITELY rigged: Brazillians are only allowed to play for the Brazillian National team... how much more rigged could it get?

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itch vaccine

25% of a few million bucks is very little, collectively of all bookies involved. No problem there for 75% of the profit.

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"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes.
When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours.
That's relativity."
- Albert Einstein

ironman

Next thing you will say that Mike Tyson's fights were rigged!!!!
Now, onto the WC issue, i don't think so, too many people involved, too many people to keep quiet and too many sentiments that are pricesless to be bought. I think that the beauty of the WC and the the reason that it is the most watched sporting event in the world (yeah, the Super Bowl not even comes close...) is that every nation has its shot and it's a moment of pure national pride and collective dream. I don't like watching sports, but the WC is the one event that i can't miss and the only one (since Jordan's retirement) that would make me pay a shitload of money just to be on a single game shouting and chanting.

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itch vaccine

After Argentina's 6-0 and Holland's 2-1, I have nothing to complain about. ~

__________________
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes.
When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours.
That's relativity."
- Albert Einstein

analog

Um, no. It could not. That was easy.

Pip

And what a much-desired goal that was!

If you want to talk about rigged games, let's talk about Group C in the Euro Cup 2004... Sweden and Denmark would both continue to quarter finals if and only if they played 2-2 against each other in the final group match, which they did. Thus, Italy got kicked out of the tournament and man, they were furious.

Good times.

slimcr

Im a bookie, we're getting killed, no, this is not rigged.

highthief

Nah - you could buy a ref or two but trying to buy guys like Ronaldinho, Beckham, Henry who are worth untolds millions of dollars, plus all their mates? Doesn't make any sense at all. They would have way too much to lose. For the top teams, to win a World Cup means so much money, to them as individuals and to their national teams in merchandising, etc.

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aKula

yeah that's true highthief. The players from the better teams are allready so highly payed I doubt they'd take a bribe to throw a game in the world cup, which they'd all really want to win. Maybe if Bill Gates really wanted the USA to win he could do it.

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spindles

and how wrong you actually are. Japan have a Brazilian born left wing. One of the European countries (I think it is Portugal, but don't quote me on that) also has a brazilian player

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Pip

Also, no less than five countries in the world cup have a Brazilian coach: Brazil (duh), Japan, Costa Rica, Portugal and Saudiarabia. How fishy is that?!?

Martian

To answer a question like this, I reckon you have to break it down into three components - is it possible, is it feasible and is there motivation?

Motivation is easy - profit. So we'll get that out of the way first.

Is it possible? I reckon so. It'd take a lot of grease to get those wheels spinning, but when you're dealing with the untold millions that change hands every time the world cup rolls around, a lot of grease is doable.

Is it feasible, though? And I figure here's where the whole thing falls down. If you want to rig the matches convincingly, everyone involved has to be in on it. Refs, coaches, officials, players, support staff, etc etc etc. That's a lot of conspirators and it seems inevitable that with that many variables, the whole thing is going to collapse sooner or later. Imagine you're a third rate player on a third rate team. They offer you x amount to keep quiet. You take it, then turn around and blow the whistle. Suddenly, every media organization in the world is offering you a great big whopping pile of cash for your story and you're set. Those who set up the conspiracy can't do anything about it because suddenly you've got them for fraud - they'll be too busy to do anything to you. You've got your proof in the form of the payoff - large amounts of money won't change hands without leaving a trail.

So yeah, I reckon it could be rigged, but I'm highly skeptical of the idea that it is.

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analog

That's because Brazil has won more World Cups ever than any other country, and has scored more goals total in the history of World Cup than any other country.

Of course they have a Brazilian coach- they want a better chance to win. lol

Paradise Lost

It doesn't seem like it would be worth it to the players/teams/countries involved to fix the games. With football being so popular outside of the states, the pride of the entire country is online when these teams compete for the World Cup. Also, could they even really trust the people dispursing the money? And besides, it would be very hard to prove either way. Logically, it just doesn't seem to make any sense for the players to make such a deal with bookies. But I suppose anything can happen, and this being the World Cup, I'm sure they could make themselves a half-way decent profit. But the negatives of doing it seem to outweigh the positives of doing their best, this is too important to lose like this.

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itch vaccine

Okay, thought for a few days and here's my reply :

You see, most games should seem like it would turn out to be a goal frenzy but it doesn't. The team still gets to win, but they are just paid to not score so much. So they get what they want, the bookies get what they want.

In the Asian Handicap bettings, this would be advantageous to bookies as they stronger team only scores 1 goal, so what results is, whoever that takes the stronger team and gives away the handicap will lose, i.e., Brazil v Croatia WC2006 , score 1-0. They could score more, but stopped at 1-0. Handicap was Brazil -1.5 to Croatia if I recall correctly. So of course as a punter, you wouldn't dream of accepting Croatia given the handicap, rather you'd put your faith in Brazil to score 2 or more goals.

You see, they aren't paid to lose, they are just paid to "not clear" the handicap. Otherwise, they are paid to draw instead. Moreover, you don't have to necessarily pay off all the players, just the star striker. How hard would it be to transfer, say, a million euroes to someone discreetly. The striker can easily blame it on his "form".

I don't see why not After all, they're not paid to lose, only to draw or score within the handicap.

__________________
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes.
When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours.
That's relativity."
- Albert Einstein

Gatorade Frost

I don't even get why it would have to be transfered secretly, I mean if they're all in to make money it could practically be worked into the contract.

Not that I actually believe it's rigged.

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Emo Philips

tibore

i'm so glad to see germany has continued in the rigged world cup tradition.

its the most rigged event i have ever seen, did ANYONE actually see the australia -v- brazil game. 25 free's to 9. and the frees he gave to the brazillians were SHIT. they had to tap them for a free. after the game, it was SICKENING, the brazillian players went up and shook the hands of the referee, and he was practically asking for their autographs. it was the most discusting thing i have ever seen. The ref was obviously paid out by a corrupt organisation. ausrtralia could have drawn or even won that game, the held all the cards, but when u have a dickhead ref, and pussy brazillians falling over at nothing and pretending to be injured the chance flew out the window, FUCK YOU WORLD CUP, ITS A DISCRASE AND JUST PURE SHIT

i guarantee brazil and germany will make the semi finals, not cause they are better, but because it is RIGGED. the world cup had no dignity left, screw it.

Gatorade Frost

Aww... The sweet refreshing sound of Tilted Paranoia... :P

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Infinite_Loser

After the Australia/Italy match today, I have to agree about the World Cup being rigged.

If anyone saw that game yesterday and the horrendous call that ensued somewhere in the 93rd minute, you can't help but think that the refs are out to help the "Big" soccer countries win.

highthief

Shrug - while disappointed that Australia did not beat Italy, a bad call certainly does not make it rigged. Where football needs to go is to video analysis on penalty kicks and goals that aren't clear cut. This has benefited hockey, american football and other sports.

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Alex_Rider

I am an Australian and I am convinced thet the refs are paid to find some way of keeping the small teams out of the finals. Lets face it, the vast majority of the world cup Audience does not want to see Australia or the small time "every 20 years" teams in the finals. They want Italy, Brazil, Croatia,Germany to be up there. My mate predicted the event of the AUS Vs ITALY game EXACTLY, days before it happend. Imagine the chaos if Italy had of lost that game. You should have seen the riots when they were eliminated in 2002! Not to mention England! It is a huge media goldmine. Half of there audience are italian, german or brazillian.

On another note, how do people put up watching terrible "actors" rolling around on the pitch, grabbing at shin guards "um, thats what they are for". They either need to teach a bit of sportsmanship or toughen up those pussies. Seriously I can't believe some of these guys and some of the decisions. Soccerroos just stand up brush themselves off, look around "no, penalty, what else is new" and went on playing. I hate to say this but the Aussies may have to shrink to their level if they want to succeed further next time, like our Harry Koolle, I think the UK has brushed off on him.

Pip

Italy does seem to have "good luck" with the referees more often than not...

lucidcg

While I believe there are acts of collusion in influencing the outcomes of games, the idea that there are agreements between national sides and Asian bookeepers is fanciful at best. The possibility of deals between two national squads (and/or their governments) or a national team and FIFA is significantly more viable. The most obvious assistance that FIFA provides is for the home team. No home team has ever failed to make it to the second round, and 6 out of 18 champions were home teams.


South Korea almost certainly received significant assistance in reaching the semi-finals in 2002. The officiating in the second round match of 2002 between South Korea and Italy was a disgrace, a 2 - 1 loss for the latter team. And it was a loss for them, not a win for Korea. The Italians led most of the match 1 to 0, but they had a good goal disallowed, a penalty kick not called, and a red card given to Totti in overtime. Italy had a disproportionate number of goals disallowed all tournament.


There were bad calls in the Italy vs Australia match, but they were hardly one-sided. Australia should be kicking themselves for not capitilizing on the powerplay they had for an entire half. The red card given to Materazzi was undeserved - a yellow card should have been given at best. The penalty kick given at the end could have gone either way judging from one's point-of-view on the field. Slow-motion video and various camera angles show it was a weak call. It certainly looked like a foul at first view though, and a foul (despite its severity) = a pk. If the referee didn't call it, game fixing accusations would be hurled at Australia. It could have been a make-up call, but the Italians hardly were handed the game (additionally, Italy was put in the group of Death - easy FIFA assistance wasn't given). All game-deciding calls in all sports are met with 50% bitterness, objectivity goes out the window.


The easiest and most effective solution is instant replay. I find it strange that all the major soccer leagues do not use it, from UEFA to FIFA to Serie A and the Premiership. I think there is a combination of not wanting to slow-down a free flowing game with a desire to keep credible denialibility. The lack of precision is utilized to sway games: help the home team, allow a ball to be hit in with a fist by a supposedly "great" Argentinian, help the Brazilians, etc. And yes, the Brazilians have had more than their fair share of assistance. Their great individual players + FIFA's help + consistently easy grouping = more championships than any other nation. Only important home teams (the big ones: Germany, France, etc) receive more assistance than Brazil. Case in point: Brazil vs France 98. For Brazil not getting any assistance in the match, they were given a nice amount four years later and they won the cup. Let's see how it pans out for the rest of this tournament. France and Brazil shall play again, and Germany will be playing an evenly matched Argentina. Hope for good play and transparent calling.

Zodijackyl

I imagine if there were huge upsets and european countries were to lose terribly, many Americans might suddenly gain an interest in the world cup.

[/quote]On another note, how do people put up watching terrible "actors" rolling around on the pitch, grabbing at shin guards "um, thats what they are for". They either need to teach a bit of sportsmanship or toughen up those pussies. Seriously I can't believe some of these guys and some of the decisions. Soccerroos just stand up brush themselves off, look around "no, penalty, what else is new" and went on playing. I hate to say this but the Aussies may have to shrink to their level if they want to succeed further next time, like our Harry Koolle, I think the UK has brushed off on him.[/QUOTE]

This is why most of the USA just laughs at the world cup. It's become more about trying to draw fouls than actually playing, and those players just look like asses, plain and simple. How many times to they bring a stretcher out for a player who gets up and continues to play once the ref makes a call? Far too many.

highthief

I think if it was rigged, England and Brazil would be in the semis, for the international TV audience and betting those two countries bring with them, rather than Portugal and France.

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itch vaccine

What if it's rigged as far as semis go

__________________
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes.
When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours.
That's relativity."
- Albert Einstein

biznatch

I don't believe it's rigged. It could be, in a world where star athletes were paid 10% of what they're paid now. Try buying Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo? Ain't gonna happen.
And also, are you aware of what the WC represents to these men? It's a shot at being a hero, almost a God for your countrymen.
It only happens every 4 years, so you're lucky if you play 3 world cups in your life. Not something they'd sell themselves for.
Some people mention games that seem rigged because of the amount of time it takes to score a goal. This is no proof of a rig: it shows that the team's strategies work pretty well agaisnt each other and that both are able to defend well. Or that the players are tired, or lack inspiration or patience to score the goal.
Now it is possible that a ref is in favor of a team, either because he's paid to do so, or for personal motivations, and this often shows. But it doesn't mean that the match is rigged. No score has been set before the game, and the payers still do their best to win.

h2ogo69

The head-butt wasa pretty dumb move. So unless he's somewhat mentally handicapped he could've been bought

shadowfiend

I don't know, but these players/managers/referees are being paid more than what they can earn in at least 10 years of their life. We are talking about billions of money paid to a team to maintain a certain score or lose a game. That's like tens of millions to each person involved.

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offtheedge

I think the players themselves aren't involved but the referees are.
Australia scoring 3 goals near the end of the match is nothing unusual though, the Socceroos are arguably the most underrated football team in the world. They are capable of beating absolutely any national and probably even club side on their good days which isn't a statement without merit, having recorded wins against just about everyone including Spain and Brazil.

thedoc

You only need to rig the referees and judges, the Olympics are a prime example of this.

Strange Famous

Anywhere there is money to be made there is the possibility of corruption. I have no doubt that games are sometimes thrown, and especially with spot betting (betting on the first throw in, first yellow card, whatever) it is a lot easier practially and morally (Matt Le Tissier admits in his autobiography betting on the first throw in and then desperately chasing the ball around after the kick off to try and boot it out of play)

People who arent prepared for moral reasons to throw a match might well be happy to get themselves a yellow card by time wasting or kick the ball out of play on purpose (or like the allegations against Pakistani cricketers, deliberately bowl some wides)

But I think you do have to be careful that while you admit the possibilities, you do not become cynical about everything. We all know of group games in world cups were the result that both sides need to get to the next stage happens,,, and yes it is cheating. But I dont think this means the whole world cup is flawed. Ultimately, most international footballers who are playing for competitive teams are pretty wealthy these days, and I think a world cup win means more to most of them than any amount of money could. Ref's are more vulnerable in that way though...

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