Genesis, why did they go pop?
 

Hi all. I just listened to a few Genesis songs from the early 80's. Abacab, as an example. Why did they pussifie their music after that? I understand that Peter Gabriel left the group and Phil Collins took over lead vocals, but damn, it was still a good band. At some point they totaly sold out. Fucking waste of talent.

they wanted to lay the groundwork for Goo Goo Dolls, Sugar Ray and Liz Phair...

You're absolutely right. They should have left Phil on drums.

Chicago was the same way. Kick ass stuff until Peter Fucking Cetera came along.

You have your time line a little mixed up.

Phil was already on vocals by the time they did Abacab... I think that was his fifth album (Gabriel's last album with Genesis was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and they did A Trick of the Tail, Wind and the Wuthering, And Then there Were Three and Duke after that and before Abacab).

Duke and Abacab are a couple of their best albums post Peter Gabriel. They just went in different direction and I don't think it can all be blamed on Collins. Face Value was an awesome solo album by Collins...

Honestly, I think they just grew up and got interested in different things.

Thank you, Charlatan, for a bit of insight. Let's clear some stuff up here.

Genesis started as a prog-rock outfit, and gradually became a pop group. The blame surely cannot be placed on Phil Collins. Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks were equal parts of Genesis during this transition - Phil tends to get all the focus because he was the lead singer.

While I appreciate your technical term "pussifie," I think one would say it's a matter of opinion. I appreciate post 1980-Genesis for what it is, and I don't compare it to their earlier output. They went on to something different.

As for "selling out," I HATE it when people use that term. What does it mean, exactly? They went in a different direction and it happened to catch. So how did they sell out? Unless you can prove to me that they purposely went in that direction because a) their record company wanted them to, or b) they did it purely so they could sell more records.

And Ratbastid...I'm surprised at your lack of research. Peter Cetera was a founding member of Chicago back in 1967 AND sang lead on a lot of their earlier, more rocking songs like "25 or 6 to 4." Also, Chicago was doing more light-hearted fare since the mid-70s, like "Baby What A Big Surprise," "Saturday In The Park" and "If You Leave Me Now." Again, they went in a different direction in the 1980s...but that has more to do with a few members of the band either dying or leaving, and adding David Foster as contributing writer and producer. And some of Chicago's biggest "pop" hits ("Look Away," "What Kind of Man Would I Be") were recorded after Cetera left the band.

I'm just saying. :)

Besides... Genesis didn't sell out... they sold England by the Pound... :P

...which, btw, is one of my favorite Genesis albums. I love "Firth of Fifth." But I also love "That's All."

BTW, I didn't intend for my message to come out as harsh as it did. But I hate the term "selling out" when it doesn't appear to be accurate.

I was harsh on Ratbastid too, but that's because I just loooove Peter Cetera. :lol:

My favourite Genesis album is probably Duke... can't say I like Chicago all that much... not that that prevents their songs from permeating my consciousness.

No comment. But I still love you! ;)

There was a behind the scenes or something in that order about Genesis and 3 things pop out:

1) Peter Gabriel was a complete lunatic and total controlling ass

2) Phil Collins did not want vocals

3) Mike and Tony have final say over every song.

Really, quite interesting the show, I highly recommend it.

i never liked their early stuff. too arty.

http://wumarkus.com/images/american_psycho1.jpg

had to do it.

As mentioned, it wasn't Peter Cetera joining Chicago that changed their sound, he was there from the beginning. It was the loss of lead guitarist Terry Kath that pussified the group. The first few albums were full of gritty earthy blues oriented rock. Like South California Purples. Chicago becam a pop band in its later years. Just like Genesis did after Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel left.

And another thing ... (he says jokingly) progressive rock was going out of vogue at the time. It wasn't just Genesis that was heading in more of a pop direction. I love prog rock, but also appreciate pop as well. Well played, well written pop (latter day Genesis in a nut shell) is just as enjoyable as well played prog. The Lamb is probably my favorite Genesis album, followed by "Genesis" from "83. I am glad Gabriel left the group, his solo stuff is just too good. Nice to know there's some others around with a knowledge of early Genesis. Cool.

great point

I was thinking the same thing on the way into work this morning...

I also agree about Peter Gabriel's solo work. I don't think I would like a world where he never had a solo career.

Edit. I thought you were bashing him.

I hate his stuff. Absolutely hate it.

You hate Peter Gabriel? Wow.

Shock the Monkey, Don't Give Up, San Jacinto, Shanking the Tree, Solsbury Hill, Sledgehammer, Biko, Red Rain, Games Without Frontiers, I Don't Remember, Blood of Eden, Lay Your Hands on Me...

All just amazing songs... and that's just off the top of my head. Chacun son gout... ;)

So, Charlatan, exactly how does one go about "Shanking" a tree :-) . I know it's a typo, but it made me laugh. BTW, excellent choice of songs. Definitely some of Gabriels best. I've really been getting into "Don't Give Up" lately. Excellent piece of music.

It's from Peter Gabriel's lesser known, "Music for Prison".

Hey did anyone see this?

Phil Collins:Then

Peter Gabriel:Wow!

Yes, I was thinking that myself (that prog rock went out of style at that point) while my son was asking me who did 'Roundabout' as we were listening to it on the radio last night. This would explane the slow demise of Focus (note to self, check for a Focus thread...)

I really loved Gabriel's solo effort, with the noted exceptions of his harsher sounding songs such as Shock the Monkey, Sledgehammer (ugggh hated it) but really loved Salsbury Hill, Jeux Sans Frontieres, I Don't Remember, and really really like Biko.

As for Genesis, Lamb was my fav album followed by Duke...