Ska or Jah; Which came first? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CityOfAngels · 02-12-2005, 12:07 AM

I was always told that Ska is a mixture of Reggae and Punk, but recently I was told that Ska pre-dates both of those music styles. Is anyone here informed on this subject? Help me out. Thanks.

Charlatan · 02-12-2005, 05:56 AM

Ska definately pre-dates Punk and I seem to recall ska was born in the 50s in Jamaica... I'm not sure when reggae came about.

I've heard some of that early ska it is really pared down compared to what you would call ska today but the rhythm and beat were unmistakable...

http://www.skasummit.com/ska_history01.asp ... just found this...

Ella · 02-12-2005, 05:58 AM

Yup...ska was pre-reggae and definitely pre-punk. In fact, if there was no ska, there would more than likely be no reggae!

wraithhibn · 02-14-2005, 06:00 AM

Reggae is a derivative of ska, though most think its the other way around. mmm Skatalites.

lunchbox · 02-18-2005, 08:56 AM

i find this conversation odd because i'm not a very big ska fan but I love (some) reggae and a lot of older punk.

i think its the one guitar dedicated to that weird beat that i don't like. oh and bands like the suicide machines that sound the same on every track.

Charlatan · 02-18-2005, 08:58 AM

slow that ska guitar beat down and you have a reggae beat...

Redlemon · 02-18-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunchbox

i find this conversation odd because i'm not a very big ska fan but I love (some) reggae and a lot of older punk.

i think its the one guitar dedicated to that weird beat that i don't like. oh and bands like the suicide machines that sound the same on every track.

Nothing odd about that at all. I strongly dislike reggae, but love 2nd and 3rd wave ska. It's the emotion behind the music, rather than the mechanics of where the beat is. To me, reggae feels lethargic and passive, while (newer) ska feels aggressive and energetic. That's what I like in music.

Charlatan · 02-18-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

To me, reggae feels lethargic and passive.

That's the ganja talkin' mon...

roachboy · 02-18-2005, 09:42 AM

ska comes out of rocksteady i think.
dick hebdige's book "cut n paste" is a good history of reggae, particularly of the development of dub/sound system dimensions of the form. but it goes all the way back to the origins of reggae.
his "subculture" book is interesting in showing the intertwining of reggae and early punk in london of the middle 1970s.

on reggae more generally, i am a hopeless fan of studio one and earlier "roots" stuff in general--i like the horn sections in particular, how they are generally a little "out of tune"---but my main fixation is dub--whence the higher-level fixation on the congos, one of the finest vocal trio/dub style combinations--and among lee perry's finest production efforts (all hail black ark) and so.

i find ska to be in the main tedious--mostly becuase when i hear it i focus on the horn arrangements and once i do that i imagine myself being trapped in a second tenor sox part for the rest of my life and that, folks, is not good, not good at all.

Charlatan · 02-18-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

ska comes out of rocksteady i think.
dick hebdige's book "cut n paste" is a good history of reggae, particularly of the development of dub/sound system dimensions of the form. but it goes all the way back to the origins of reggae.
his "subculture" book is interesting in showing the intertwining of reggae and early punk in london of the middle 1970s.

Hebdige's book Subculture is excellent.

roachboy · 02-18-2005, 09:54 AM

it is--his subsequent repudiation of the subculture model is interesting too--i cant remember where the essays are--the title is something like blinded by the light, but thats not it quite.

all hail black ark. mansei.

Redlemon · 02-18-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

That's the ganja talkin' mon...

actually, I don't partake. Perhaps that's my problem...

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

ska comes out of rocksteady i think.

Nope, that's backwards. See the Wikipedia articles on ska and <a href="http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=rocksteady">rocksteady</a>.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

i find ska to be in the main tedious--mostly becuase when i hear it i focus on the horn arrangements and once i do that i imagine myself being trapped in a second tenor sox part for the rest of my life and that, folks, is not good, not good at all.

As a person who sang baritone in male a cappella, I know exactly where you are coming from.

betula · 02-21-2005, 07:43 PM

Yeah, most people do think reggae is the original Jamaican music, but it really is ska. I agree with Redlemon about the feeling ska music brings... it's really energetic. I love music that is energetic, even at the risk of having similar sounding songs.

degrawj · 02-22-2005, 09:48 AM

wow, i guess this just goes to show how much i don't know. i thought that jah came before ska. me = wrong

GetRdone · 02-22-2005, 09:58 AM

The ska alot of people think of is more "punk with horns". I love ska, and grew up on bands like Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish etc. Original ska is more of a jazz/swing/reaggea combo. The Skatalites are good original style ska. And if you like the punk style ska, check out I Voted For Kodos, from Madison WI

flstf · 02-22-2005, 10:11 AM

Wasn't one of the first popular ska songs "Desmond Decker and the Aces - The Israelites" from 1969, reached number 9 on the charts?

One of my favorites is "Isaac Green and the Skalars - Don't Count" from 1996.

avernus · 03-03-2005, 05:39 AM

Ska came from the band Skatalites didn't it? Don Drummond is pretty good.

John Henry · 03-03-2005, 06:34 AM

When Ska started out or who started it is a moot point, like who invented Rock and Roll (say "Elvis" and I'll lay you out), but it definitely came before reggae.

I believe Prince Buster is fairly widely credited as one of it's progenitors and the Skatalites certainly used to play with him.

It's not necessarily correct to assume that Reggae grew from Ska either. Rather Ska appears to be descended from Jazz and Rock and Roll, whereas Reggae is descended from Rythmn and Blues, the word "Reggae" meaning "rythmn".

For anybody who has only heard Punk-Ska you really need to hear some original Ska. While I have no problem with punk-ska and will happily can-can with the best of them, it simply isn't Ska. Ska is a completely different sort of music and has a different feel.

For a good introduction to original Ska, you can't go wrong with "Take the Ska Train".

For an introduction to reggae with some really good sleeve notes, "The Best of Studio One" is definitely the way to go, then top up your collection with some Trojan compilations and take it from there.

GetRdone · 03-03-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Henry

While I have no problem with punk-ska and will happily can-can with the best of them, it simply isn't Ska.

Can-can? Ive always referred to it as "skankin'". Unless your reffering to a different ska dance that i dont know about. Skankin is fun...

John Henry · 04-22-2005, 08:44 AM

You're not alone in using that term, but that kicking out the legs is more of a bastardisation of skanking than 'ska' is of ska. Proper skanking is more like that walk Madness do only more relaxed: Knees bent, arms moving, slow and steady. If you tried to can-can to real Ska you'd fall over.

Janey · 04-22-2005, 08:49 AM

[QUOTE=John Henry]When Ska started out or who started it is a moot point, like who invented Rock and Roll (say "Elvis" and I'll lay you out), but it definitely came before reggae.QUOTE]

Isn't Elvis Costello too young to have invented rock and roll?

02-12-2005, 05:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Ska definately pre-dates Punk and I seem to recall ska was born in the 50s in Jamaica... I'm not sure when reggae came about. I've heard some of that early ska it is really pared down compared to what you would call ska today but the rhythm and beat were unmistakable... http://www.skasummit.com/ska_history01.asp ... just found this... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-12-2005, 05:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ella Ella Bo Bella Location: Australia	Yup...ska was pre-reggae and definitely pre-punk. In fact, if there was no ska, there would more than likely be no reggae! __________________ "Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

02-14-2005, 06:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
wraithhibn Dopefish Location: the 'Ville	Reggae is a derivative of ska, though most think its the other way around. mmm Skatalites. __________________ If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

02-18-2005, 08:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
lunchbox Thank God hockey is back Location: Deeeeeetroit	i find this conversation odd because i'm not a very big ska fan but I love (some) reggae and a lot of older punk. i think its the one guitar dedicated to that weird beat that i don't like. oh and bands like the suicide machines that sound the same on every track. __________________ A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

02-18-2005, 08:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	slow that ska guitar beat down and you have a reggae beat... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-18-2005, 09:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	ska comes out of rocksteady i think. dick hebdige's book "cut n paste" is a good history of reggae, particularly of the development of dub/sound system dimensions of the form. but it goes all the way back to the origins of reggae. his "subculture" book is interesting in showing the intertwining of reggae and early punk in london of the middle 1970s. on reggae more generally, i am a hopeless fan of studio one and earlier "roots" stuff in general--i like the horn sections in particular, how they are generally a little "out of tune"---but my main fixation is dub--whence the higher-level fixation on the congos, one of the finest vocal trio/dub style combinations--and among lee perry's finest production efforts (all hail black ark) and so. i find ska to be in the main tedious--mostly becuase when i hear it i focus on the horn arrangements and once i do that i imagine myself being trapped in a second tenor sox part for the rest of my life and that, folks, is not good, not good at all. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

02-18-2005, 09:54 AM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	it is--his subsequent repudiation of the subculture model is interesting too--i cant remember where the essays are--the title is something like blinded by the light, but thats not it quite. all hail black ark. mansei. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

02-21-2005, 07:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
betula Upright Location: Buffalo, NY	Yeah, most people do think reggae is the original Jamaican music, but it really is ska. I agree with Redlemon about the feeling ska music brings... it's really energetic. I love music that is energetic, even at the risk of having similar sounding songs.

02-22-2005, 09:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
degrawj I'm still waiting... Location: West Linn, OR	wow, i guess this just goes to show how much i don't know. i thought that jah came before ska. me = wrong

02-22-2005, 09:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
GetRdone Psycho	The ska alot of people think of is more "punk with horns". I love ska, and grew up on bands like Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish etc. Original ska is more of a jazz/swing/reaggea combo. The Skatalites are good original style ska. And if you like the punk style ska, check out I Voted For Kodos, from Madison WI __________________ Revere Jena Malone.......this is not a suggestion.

02-22-2005, 10:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	Wasn't one of the first popular ska songs "Desmond Decker and the Aces - The Israelites" from 1969, reached number 9 on the charts? One of my favorites is "Isaac Green and the Skalars - Don't Count" from 1996.

03-03-2005, 05:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
avernus Crazy Location: Bath, UK	Ska came from the band Skatalites didn't it? Don Drummond is pretty good.

03-03-2005, 06:34 AM	#18 (permalink)
John Henry Addict Location: Grey Britain	When Ska started out or who started it is a moot point, like who invented Rock and Roll (say "Elvis" and I'll lay you out), but it definitely came before reggae. I believe Prince Buster is fairly widely credited as one of it's progenitors and the Skatalites certainly used to play with him. It's not necessarily correct to assume that Reggae grew from Ska either. Rather Ska appears to be descended from Jazz and Rock and Roll, whereas Reggae is descended from Rythmn and Blues, the word "Reggae" meaning "rythmn". For anybody who has only heard Punk-Ska you really need to hear some original Ska. While I have no problem with punk-ska and will happily can-can with the best of them, it simply isn't Ska. Ska is a completely different sort of music and has a different feel. For a good introduction to original Ska, you can't go wrong with "Take the Ska Train". For an introduction to reggae with some really good sleeve notes, "The Best of Studio One" is definitely the way to go, then top up your collection with some Trojan compilations and take it from there. __________________ "No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

04-22-2005, 08:44 AM	#20 (permalink)
John Henry Addict Location: Grey Britain	You're not alone in using that term, but that kicking out the legs is more of a bastardisation of skanking than 'ska' is of ska. Proper skanking is more like that walk Madness do only more relaxed: Knees bent, arms moving, slow and steady. If you tried to can-can to real Ska you'd fall over. __________________ "No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

04-22-2005, 08:49 AM	#21 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	[QUOTE=John Henry]When Ska started out or who started it is a moot point, like who invented Rock and Roll (say "Elvis" and I'll lay you out), but it definitely came before reggae.QUOTE] Isn't Elvis Costello too young to have invented rock and roll?