HipHop fans, are you embarrassed by rap? I am. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ems · 01-28-2005, 02:58 AM

When people ask what I listen to, I usually say "ehh, a bit of everything"

... a lie.

The majority of the music i listen to is underground hip-hop. this isnt the 50cent/ja rule/chingy bullshit you hear on the radio. I dont listen to songs about cars, hoes, ice, bitches, rims, spinners and cash; i despise that. I listen to the socially responsible, authority questioning, politically active, lyric intensive hiphop.

I'm embarrassed to say i listen to "rap" bc people immediatly assume the worst [ie: 50cent, et al], so im forced to toss the "a bit of everything" lie

I know this is a fairly retarded thread, but im curious if other hiphop-heads are in the same boat [??]

K-Wise · 01-28-2005, 03:18 AM

I suppose you could add me to the boat if you wanna but I'm not ashamed to say I listen to rap. I am a rapper for one so how would that sound? If they want to assume the worst they can go ahead. If they're so closed minded about the genre that they only see/look for whats thrown at them on T.V. I could care less what their opinion of it is because it doesn't matter. They don't know shit. I'd prefer they don't listen to it at all. I hate it when people say stuff like "I don't like rap..but I like Eminem" or "Tupac" then don't listen to any of it. That implies that the only good rapper out right now is Eminem..thats just bullshit. I couldn't count the number of incredibly talented lyricists on even my hands n toes...shit Wu-Tang clan take up half the list by themselves.

Don't care what they think. Be proud you listen to that shit and if they role their eyes at you and name names like Nelly and other rappers you no doubt hate for the lack of depth in their music drop some knowledge on them and put em in their place. Be like "Actually NO I don't listen to him..I listen to Dead Prez. You ever heard a them?" They say no you tell em then you dunno shit....Show them what you listen to. They can't honestly say it's bad unless they have a bias against the genre.

Asta!!

bollocks · 01-28-2005, 04:04 AM

Add me in too, commercial hiphop is, in a word, shit. Anyone that praises that load of bollocks should re-assess the way they define good music. I find it hard to socialise with anyone who actually rates this shit, as I found out when a couple of old school friends were busy 'gettin krunk' to some dump, mind numbing, BLINGIN' 50cent release. I mean fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own musical taste, but when I suggested to stick Blackalicious: NIA in the CD deck and stuck track one on, they all shot me down with looks of 'what the fuck is this shit'. Concious rap doesn't suit everyone's taste, but no one on the face of this planet can ignore its general message and place 50cent/Ja Rule/Lil Flip/Twista etc. etc. above it. Oooh yeah I forgot, Twista can rap fast so that means he must be talented.

Fuck off.

K-Wise · 01-28-2005, 04:33 AM

Shit at one point I'd swear he actually was...not sure anymore though.

Asta!!

degrawj · 01-28-2005, 08:28 AM

Well, I love hip-hop, and I tend to listen to both underground, and the more popular stuff. Not like 50-cent or Chingy tho. those guys are so freaking annoying. especially chingy. and lil' jon i find amusing, and listen to his stuff sometimes just because of the absurdity of it. but other popular hip-hop, like OutKast, Dre, and Eminem, I like to listen to. They are actually talented musicians, i think. as for underground, i like to listen to Japanese rap, local groups, or anything i can get my hands on.

uncle_el · 01-28-2005, 10:25 AM

i'm not embarassed by rap in the least bit. conscious rap, bling bling, old school, underground, gangsta... i listen to it all.

personally, i think a lot of people try to distance themselves from things heard on the radio (i.e. not conscious and not underground) in an attempt to say that all other rap is whack, and that it's not as real. my personal feeling is that the music that's underground and not "mainstream" is only there because it doesn't have commercial success. while we can argue about the many reasons why particular artists are commercial or not... it comes down to the money. if you're making music, and you're not making money, then you're underground... and thus certain people will accept you, and others won't have heard of you. if you're making musica, and you're making money, then you're commercial... and thus certain people will accept you, and others will have heard of you, but say you're whack or not real...

it'd be great if more people were accepting of all genre's of rap, but unfortunatley we'll always have a division between what's "real", and what's not.

i listen to 50 cent, i'm fake
i listen to the last emperor, i'm real
i listen to the game, i don't have musical taste
i listen to little brother, then i've peeped something real
i listen to jay-z, i must be into bling bling
i listen to outkast, i guess i'm in between
i listen to nas, his albums after the hype i must not know rap
i listen to nas, his album before the hype, i must really love rap

you like what you like, you love what you love. i'm not here to try and change people's minds, just open people's ears.

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 10:44 AM

Yes Mainstream hiphop is pretty much garbage, It's not about the love or the art of writing a good ryhme anymore..it's all money, Look at the pic posted above by bollocks.

I'm just happy there's still MC's out there being true.

Quote:

Yo what the fuck happen to reality spitting rhyme slayers
These days everybody trying to be a thug or a player
Where did all the real motherfuckers go in the game
Bring back the break dancers and graffiti writers with fame
I remember hip hop before the mic cunt clapping
Cause I used to drink forties with more flavor then these rappers
Lyrical ego trips doesn't make fortification
Your not dope enough, spit self glorification
So don't jerk me around cause my name ain't masturbation
Life is hard it'll leave you scarred cause I been threw shit
If you consider rap a job I suggest that you quit

-Immortal Technique

degrawj · 01-28-2005, 10:48 AM

very good point uncle_el. i used to have an affliction to "pop" music, and i kind of still do. i don't listen to the radio at all, so usually i don't even know who's popular. but every now and again, i'll here one of those "pop" songs. like a while ago, i had heard that Milkshake song by Kelis. well, i liked it, bought a couple songs off the album thru iTunes, liked those, and ended up buying the CD. it's in pretty heavy rotation right now in my car.

people like what they like, for whatever reason.

trickyy · 01-28-2005, 10:59 AM

i don't mind the popular stuff either. of course i don't like every song that comes out, but there are several pop-rap songs that i like. i kind of enjoy the shamelessly slick production. and you can't really get a crowd of people moving to a song that 5% of them have heard.

i don't even mind some of the faster tempo pop songs, but i don't actually own any of it. most of the music i own is pretty rare.

i'm more embarrased by the music i loved 3-4 years ago: radio classic rock. i have just heard the same 4 songs by the doors too much (and they've reduced rush's catalog to tom saywer). the chain-smoking dj's saying stuff like "now here's more of the greatest music ever made..." it's a joke. it would be like if they played "get low" every day for the next 35 years.

Fourtyrulz · 01-28-2005, 11:20 AM

Even though I consider myself more of a metal head, I absolutely hate fucking crunk and Lil' John and the Yin Yang morons or whatever the hell they try to sell. But on the other hand I don't think rap and hiphop have to be completely intellectual or deep. What ever happened to all the rappers like Snoop Dog and Dr. Dre or Warren G and Nate Dog, rappers you could just listen to and chill out to? I'm pretty ignorant of underground rap and hip hop today, aside from loving The Roots earlier albums, so I might not be speaking the truth. It just seems to me like the only thing rap offers today are high strung and intensely boring Beyonce or Twista.

However, I do think that Jay-Z constantly pushes the boundaries of mainstream rap. His last albums have all been totally unique compared the the slew of garbage played with him on the radio. And the Beastie Boys constantly put to shame the ultra-produced electronic hip hop, I love listening to Mix Master Mike tearing up the turn tables...it always leaves my jaw hanging!

Do any extreme metalheads find themself in the same position as the hiphop crowd? Me and my roomie were talking about this the other day. "What kind of music do you listen to?"..."Oh...uhhh....I guess I like rock and metal."..."Oh I LOVE rock and metal! Good Charlotte and The Killers are my favorite!!!" *slaps forehead* Always an awkward question when wearing say a Zyklon t shirt or something

.

caz · 01-28-2005, 11:24 AM

I gotta say that I am a huge hip hop fan, but I have lost my enthusiasm within the last couple of years. The bulk of stuff out right now just hurts to listen to... I miss the classic hiphop that plays on my ipod in regular rotation. I'm missing the Jay-z (reasonable doubt), Nas (illmatic) shit... what happened to the Gansgtarr type stuff and the original Wu. I miss that era of lyrical rawness! Don't get me wrong... there is some stuff out there that is low on the radar, but damn!

What happened!?

01-28-2005, 11:26 AM

The only thing embarassing is people who try to juxtapose the two.
I dig it on both sides. 50's early demos were SICK. it was hot shit. Have you heard Jay-Z's early freestyles? Lots of these rap cats have plenty of skill. But they're two different kinds of music, thats all, both have the good and the bad.

Charlatan · 01-28-2005, 11:30 AM

I miss the days of hip hop when it was Public Enemy and NWA on one side of things and DeLaSoul and Tribe Called Quest on the other...

I don't think what is being called mainstream rap (50 cent, etc.) is any less "real" I just don't like what they have to say...

It always felt like there was a fork in the road and rap (or the powers that be who chose what gets to become popular) decided to take the road where we get to talk about bitches, hoes and bling...

I kind of feel like Reggae did the same thing... if you follow me.

Can someone point me in the direction of Rap today that took the other path 'cause I think I missed my stop....

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 12:18 PM

Look for some of these MC's Charlatan..I don't know if your gonna like this stuff, but it's not about bling or bitches.

Jedi Mind Tricks (Preferably the albums: Phsyco Social & Violent by Design Even there new album Legacy of Blood)

Canibus. He's got alot of good stuff, but he's also got alot of bad..in my opinion. I recommend his album Rip the Jacker. of all his albums i have..i think thats his best.

Wutang - 36 Chambers & Wutang Forever.

WuTang Solo shit:
GZA-Liquid Swords, Beneath the Surface & Legend of the Liquid Swords.
RZA-Digital Bullet & Birth of a Prince
Raekwon-Only Built for Cuban Links

I could list more wutang..But trying to think of everything they have put out hurts.

Alchemist - 1st Infantry
Planet Asia - The Grand Opening
Talib kweli & Hi tek
Mos Def - Black on Both sides
Jurassic 5 - Quality Control
Defari - Focused Daily
Xzibit - At the Speed of Life, 40 dayz & 40 Nightz & Restless
Souls of Mischef - 93 till
Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep
Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol1 & Vol2

Some of that is new school shit, But most of it's old school from the 90's..I'm not sure what your looking for..But all that is worth checking out if you haven't already.

I could list alot more but it's all east coast old school.

I agree with you charlatan about 50cent, I have heard some pretty good verses from him..I just don't like his voice tone..it's always the same. I don't own any of his albums, but albums i have that he's featured on..he usually has not bad verses.

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 12:58 PM

This is probably the most powerfull story telling songs i have ever heard, When i listen to this track it gives me goose bumps.

It's called Dance with the Devil - Immortal Technique

Quote:

I once knew a nigga whose real name was William
his primary concern, was making a million
being the illest hustler, that the world ever seen
he used to fuck moviestars and sniff coke in his dreams
a corrupted young mind, at the age of thirteen
nigga never had a father and his mom was a feen
she put the pipe down, but for every year she was sober
her sons heart simultaneously grew colder
he started hanging out selling bags in the projects
checking the young chicks, looking for hit and run prospects
he was fascinated by material objects
but he understood money never bought respect
he build a reputation cause he could hustle and steal
but got locked once it didn't hesitate to squeal
so criminals he chilled with didn't think he was real
you see me and niggaz like this have never been equal
I dont project my insurecurity's at other people
he feeded for props like addicts with pipes and needles
so he felt he had to prove to everyone he was evil
a fever minded young man with infinite potetial
the product of a ghetto breed capatalistic mental
coincidentally dropped out of school to sell weed
dancing with the devil, smoked until his eyes would bleed
but he was sick of selling trees and gave in to his greed

[Hook]
Everyone trying to be trife never face the consequences
you propably only did a month for minor offences
ask a nigga doing life if he had another chance
but then again there's always the wicked at new and advanced
dance forever with the devil on a code cell block
but thats what happens when you rape, murder and sell rock
devils used to be gods, angels that fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot

So Billy started robbing niggaz, anything he could do
to get his respect back, in the eyes of his crew
starting fights over little shit, up on the block
stepped up to selling mothers and brothers the crack rock
working overtime making money for the crack spot
hit the jackpot and wanted to move up to cocaine
for filling the scarface fantasy stuck in his brain
tired of the block niggaz treating him the same
he wanted to be major like the cut throats and the thugs
but when he tried to step to 'em, niggaz showed him no love
they told him any motherfucking coward can sell drugs
any bitch nigga with a gun, can bust slugs
any nigga with a red shirt can front like a blood
even Puffy smoked the motherfucker up in a club
but only a real thug can stab someone till they die
standing in front of them, starring straight into their eyes
Billy realized that these men were well guarded
and they wanted to test him, before business started
suggested raping a bitch to prove he was cold hearted
so now he had a choice between going back to his life
or making money with made men, up in the cife
his dreams about cars and ice, made him agree
a hardcore nigga is all he ever wanted to be
and so he met them friday night at a quarter to three

[Hook]

They drove around the projects slow while it was raining
smoking blunts, drinking and joking for entertainment
untill they saw a woman on the street walking alone
three in the morning, coming back from work, on her way home
and so they quietly got out the car and followed her
walking through the projects, the darkness swallowed her
they wrapped her shirt around her head and knocked her onto the floor
this is it kid now you got your chance to be raw
so Billy oaked her up and grapped the chick by the hair
and dragged her into a lobby that had nobody there
she struggled hard but they forced her to go up the stairs
they got to the roof and then held her down on the ground
screaming shut the fuck up and stop moving around
the shirt covered her face, but she screamed the clawed
so Billy stomped on the bitch, until he broken her jaw
the dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing
they kicked her until they cracked her ribs and she stopped moving
blood leaking through the cloth, she cried silently
and then they all proceeded to rape her violently
Billy was meant to go first, but each of them took a turn
ripping her up, and choking her until her throat burned
a broken jaw mumbled for god but they weren't concerned
when they were done and she was lying bloody, broken and broosed
one of them niggaz pulled out a brand new twenty-two
they told him that she was a witness of what she'd gone through
and if he killed her he was guaranteed a spot in the crew
he thought about it for a minute, she was practicly dead
and so he leaned over and put the gun right to her head

(Sample from "Survival of the Fittest" by Mobb Deep)
I'm falling and I can't turn back
I'm falling and I can't turn back

Right before he pulled the trigger, and ended her life
he thought about the cold pain with the platinum and ice
and he felt strong standing along with his new brothers
cocked the gat to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover
but what he saw made him start the cringine studder
cuz he was starring into the eyes of his own mother
she looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her
she cried more painfully, than when they were raping her
his whole world stopped, he couldn't even contiplate
his corruption had succesfully changed his fate
and he remembered how his mom used to come home late
working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth
he turned away from the woman that had once given him birth
and crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared
but only the devil responded, cause god wasn't there
and right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold
and so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul
they say death take you to a better place but I doubt it
after that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it
and listen cause the story that I'm telling is true
cuz I was there with Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom to
and now the devil follows me everywhere that I go
infact I'm sure he's standing among one of you at my shows
and every street cypher listening to little thugs flow
he could be standing right next to you, and you wouldn't know
the devil grows inside the hearts of the selvish and wicked
white, brown, yellow and black colored is not restricted
you have a self destructive destiny when your inflicted
and you'll be one of gods children that fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot
so when the devil wants to dance with you, you better say never
because the dance with the devil might last you forever

01-28-2005, 01:11 PM

IC3: I love JMT but they do have a lot of the money/bitches stuff in their raps.... to quote "Jews, Muslims, Christians... what the fuck the difference, we all want money drugs and bitches"
Ack, just kidding, i think that was Ill Bill... i dont know, JMT/Ill Bill/Non Phixion all blend together in my head.

Charlatan · 01-28-2005, 01:11 PM

Thanks IC3... I will check out some of those...

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinktank

IC3: I love JMT but they do have a lot of the money/bitches stuff in their raps.... to quote "Jews, Muslims, Christians... what the fuck the difference, we all want money drugs and bitches"

Can you tell me what albums of JMT your listening to?

Np Charlatan..let me know if you like any of it.

ems · 01-28-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

[...] Be proud you listen to that shit and if they role their eyes at you and name names like Nelly and other rappers you no doubt hate for the lack of depth in their music drop some knowledge on them and put em in their place. Be like "Actually NO I don't listen to him..I listen to Dead Prez. You ever heard a them?" They say no you tell em then you dunno shit....Show them what you listen to. [...]

I agree with your post on many of its aspects, but really, you dont think i've tried this approach? hahah, i get so tired of "explianing myself" to people

Quote:

Originally Posted by bollocks

[...] Oooh yeah I forgot, Twista can rap fast so that means he must be talented. [...]

hahahaha

Quote:

Originally Posted by degrawj

[...] i like to listen to Japanese rap, [...]

hrm, thats pretty interesting -- i've never thought about what exactly is social, political, thought provoking, or lyrical in other cultures...

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_el

[...]if you're making music, and you're not making money, then you're underground... and thus certain people will accept you, and others won't have heard of you. if you're making musica, and you're making money, then you're commercial... and thus certain people will accept you, and others will have heard of you, but say you're whack or not real... [...]

I definitely see your point, but i don;t think I can agree.

Talib Kweli, Common, Mos Def, and a few others have had pretty good commercial success. Nothing amazing [ie: 50cent style selling], but still respectable. They make great money, and some [especially Mos] have ventured off to do other "sell-out" type gigs [movies, TV, etc]. But the fact remains, that most of us in the HipHop community dont regard Mos as a "sell out." we still see him and the others mentioned as rappers who have there head on straight [much unlike j-kwon and chingy], and who are still making a lot of money doing it.

[and btw, i was cracking up your "game" comment hhahahahah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC3

Yes Mainstream hiphop is pretty much garbage, It's not about the love or the art of writing a good ryhme anymore..it's all money, Look at the pic posted above by bollocks.

I'm just happy there's still MC's out there being true.

ImTech = amazing.

his theories might be far fetched at times, but still, interesting, entertaining, and mind blowing

also, that list you have in your second post is a great list
and i cant help to mention that Tech's 'devil' is definititely one of the most amazing tracks in the whole hiphop genre

01-28-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC3

Can you tell me what albums of JMT your listening to?

Np Charlatan..let me know if you like any of it.

It may not have been JMT.... it was either on JMT's "Visions of Gandhi" or Ill Bill's "The Future is now." I'm running through my CDs right now.

01-28-2005, 01:25 PM

Nope, it was Ill Bill. My bad.

01-28-2005, 01:28 PM

Haha, but on Visions of Gandhi where they says "I'll stab you through your fucking temple with a floorboard" just made a co-worker give me a pretty weird look.

Hardknock · 01-28-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ems

When people ask what I listen to, I usually say "ehh, a bit of everything"

... a lie.

The majority of the music i listen to is underground hip-hop. this isnt the 50cent/ja rule/chingy bullshit you hear on the radio. I dont listen to songs about cars, hoes, ice, bitches, rims, spinners and cash; i despise that. I listen to the socially responsible, authority questioning, politically active, lyric intensive hiphop.

I'm embarrassed to say i listen to "rap" bc people immediatly assume the worst [ie: 50cent, et al], so im forced to toss the "a bit of everything" lie

I know this is a fairly retarded thread, but im curious if other hiphop-heads are in the same boat [??]

We are in the same boat man. I stopped listening to "gansta rap" long ago for the very same reasons. I got tired of guys rapping about how many bitches, cars and money they have because they cut their first album. It's a trend. Whenever somebody first comes out with a record, it's the bragging record. "I got my record deal, along with my hoes, $$$, cars and big ass houses." What a crock of shit. I got so tired of listening to the same drivel over and over again. I don't think I'll ever go back to it.

I listen to jazz and REAL hip-hop nowadays.

Suave · 01-28-2005, 01:43 PM

Well luckily I DO listen to a little bit of everything.

I don't find it embarassing that most rap sucks though, because most music of any genre sucks and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. Just because a bunch of idiotic nincompoops think that all hip-hop/rap is "YO BITCH WHAT GONNA FUCK BUSS A CAP IN YO NIGGA" and don't consider it music doesn't mean that I'm going to go and hide the fact that I listen to it.

Also, I do listen to quite a bit of commerical rap, and I'm still not ashamed. It's my own damn personal preference. I own CDs by Nas, 2Pac, Jay-Z, and Twista, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! *laughs maniacally*

Admittedly, the lyrics can be shallow, the metaphors trite, and the messages repetitive to non-existent, but there are still things to enjoy about some commerical rap. I'm more into the "qualities" if you want to call them that, of the rapper's voice than the lyrics themselves. You can have the most socially conscious, mind-expanding rapper in the world, and if they flow like shit, I will not listen.

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardknock

We are in the same boat man. I stopped listening to "gansta rap" long ago for the very same reasons. I got tired of guys rapping about how many bitches, cars and money they have because they cut their first album. It's a trend. Whenever somebody first comes out with a record, it's the bragging record. "I got my record deal, along with my hoes, $$$, cars and big ass houses." What a crock of shit. I got so tired of listening to the same drivel over and over again. I don't think I'll ever go back to it.

I listen to jazz and REAL hip-hop nowadays.

I find it usually to be the other way around with alot of MC's first albums, When an MC first comes onto the scene and he's trying to make it..He usually puts all his heart into that shit and makes it real..Then once he starts getting that money..it all goes to thier heads. "Hey im rich now, so i can just do a half ass job on my 2nd album because my first made me rich" It's not like that with everybody, but i have seen it happen that way before. Maybe it's not always the money, It's usually the same with movies..I find alot of sequals to movies are usually never as good as the first...And that's the way it is with alot of hiphop albums..Just the way it goes.

Like look at Nas..His first album Illmatic was sick, But i don't think he's put anything out that has even come close to comparing to his first.

IC3 · 01-28-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

Well luckily I DO listen to a little bit of everything.

I don't find it embarassing that most rap sucks though, because most music of any genre sucks and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. Just because a bunch of idiotic nincompoops think that all hip-hop/rap is "YO BITCH WHAT GONNA FUCK BUSS A CAP IN YO NIGGA" and don't consider it music doesn't mean that I'm going to go and hide the fact that I listen to it.

Also, I do listen to quite a bit of commerical rap, and I'm still not ashamed. It's my own damn personal preference. I own CDs by Nas, 2Pac, Jay-Z, and Twista, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! *laughs maniacally*

Admittedly, the lyrics can be shallow, the metaphors trite, and the messages repetitive to non-existent, but there are still things to enjoy about some commerical rap. I'm more into the "qualities" if you want to call them that, of the rapper's voice than the lyrics themselves. You can have the most socially conscious, mind-expanding rapper in the world, and if they flow like shit, I will not listen.

That's cool..I don't hate on somebody because of the style of hiphop they listen too, But HipHop before it blew up was about Freestyling, Flow & who could have the illest ryhmes and how far they could expand the vocabulary that they used when ryhming.

K-Wise · 01-28-2005, 03:39 PM

All the emcees Suave just listed are dope. Anyone dissing him for listening to Nas, Jay, Pac, shit even old Twista was good too should really give em another listen. I have no problem with someone trying to have commerical success but when you let that govern your content you've sold out period. See I don't necessarily have a problem with dudes rappin about hoes, money, weapons, and violence if thats really how they're living....if they show that they're actually TRYING to put out quality stuff and not just dishing out a new half assed album every year so you can hurry up and cash in. For instance Missy Elliot openly admitted to half-assing all her albums of the past 5 years or so because "people will buy them anyway" so she doesn't have to try hard. Lazy ass shit. She's right though...people will still buy them anyway...because they're stupid and she's calling them stupid to their face and they don't even fuckin realize it.

The difference between commercial/fake emcees and "real" emcees is simple. Real emcees do it for nothing more than the love of the music and don't care about the money....they write what they want to write and not what they think will sell albums. If you do that..yer real regardless of your content. If Nelly is in the business because he loves making the music above all other aspects then he is a real emcee. Just because you're real doesn't mean you can't be wack though. Theres tons of wack ass emcees in the underground..."underground" means nothing more than not signed. Cash Money Millionaires were underground not too long ago peddling tapes out the back of their cars. Now they actually are millionaires...they're also wack.

Asta!!

Dbass · 01-29-2005, 12:05 AM

I'm personally not a "rap" or "hip-hop" listener in any sense. I have to say that aside from elementary school experience with the West Coast, I don't really know much of it. But I can tell you this: In Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (set in 1992), there are two rap stations, basically - Playback FM which has the lighter, sort of upbeat and lame stuff; and Radio Los Santos, which has Death Row records like '187' and 'nothin' but a G thang'- and I have to say I far prefer the latter. My reason is that, this music reflects a genuine need to make shitty reality known. 187 is amazing, it really sort of captures the horrible conditions of black people in the LA ghetto.
Nowadays, what does anything mean? I will admit, I don't listen to this stuff, but I've got a healthy dose of MTV: it seems to me that the main message in rap now is "I'm tough, I have a lot of money, I'm popular and sexy, and I drive a better car than you" or "Let's party...don't fuck with me, I'm harder than you, also I'm rich and sexy and drive a nice car"
I again am the first to admit I don't know rap or hip-hop, but I put my two cents in for old-school rap

IC3 · 01-29-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dbass

I'm personally not a "rap" or "hip-hop" listener in any sense. I have to say that aside from elementary school experience with the West Coast, I don't really know much of it. But I can tell you this: In Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (set in 1992), there are two rap stations, basically - Playback FM which has the lighter, sort of upbeat and lame stuff; and Radio Los Santos, which has Death Row records like '187' and 'nothin' but a G thang'- and I have to say I far prefer the latter. My reason is that, this music reflects a genuine need to make shitty reality known. 187 is amazing, it really sort of captures the horrible conditions of black people in the LA ghetto.
Nowadays, what does anything mean? I will admit, I don't listen to this stuff, but I've got a healthy dose of MTV: it seems to me that the main message in rap now is "I'm tough, I have a lot of money, I'm popular and sexy, and I drive a better car than you" or "Let's party...don't fuck with me, I'm harder than you, also I'm rich and sexy and drive a nice car"
I again am the first to admit I don't know rap or hip-hop, but I put my two cents in for old-school rap

West Coast HipHop from the DeathRow days of Dr. Dre, Snoop, Warren G and all the rest of them..That's always gonna be classic hiphop to me, I loved it and still do.

But for what your seeing on MTV, Same as the garbage they are playing on the radio i would guess. Not pointed at you directly and not saying it in a defensive way, but alot of people who don't listen to hiphop and say they hate it, It's usually because they are only exposed to what the media (Radio & TV) wants people to hear & see.

It's the hiphop that isn't being exposed that's usually always the good stuff, I mean..there is still garbage that isn't mainstream..but most of the real hiphop you gotta dig for it..but it's worth it.

K-Wise · 01-29-2005, 04:50 PM

^ It's true. And I feel you about early west coast stuff. It was ultimate chill, cruisin music. It is classic. These days chill music for me is different...like Pharcyde, or Tribe, or Slum Village or some shit like that.

Asta!!

uncle_el · 01-31-2005, 09:29 AM

i'm glad to see there are a lot of people on here with open minds.

ic3, that song you listed by immortal technique was pretty hot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC3

I find it usually to be the other way around with alot of MC's first albums, When an MC first comes onto the scene and he's trying to make it..He usually puts all his heart into that shit and makes it real..Then once he starts getting that money..it all goes to thier heads. "Hey im rich now, so i can just do a half ass job on my 2nd album because my first made me rich" It's not like that with everybody, but i have seen it happen that way before. Maybe it's not always the money, It's usually the same with movies..I find alot of sequals to movies are usually never as good as the first...And that's the way it is with alot of hiphop albums..Just the way it goes.

one could argue that the 1st cd is the best argument is the same regardless of genre. i think norah jones' 1st album is much better than her 2nd, though i still like it... she had passion on the first one that seems to be lacking on the first... jill scott's 1st album is better than her 2nd, again, it lacks the passion that was so evident on the 1st...

from the artistic sense, it somewhat makes sense. how can an artist not be changed by the success? his/her life is no longer the same, they no longer have the same vantage point, they may be going through different things that weren't occuring during the making of the 1st album... as such, it seems virtually impossible for the artist to have more of the same.

also, i think as consumers, we like what we heard the first time, and often find it difficult, or perhaps impossible, to accept the artist's newest release... i mean, if the artist talks/raps about the same subjects/content in the same exact manner... did the artist really grow? perhaps we want more of the same, but the artist wants to try something new musically. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that this is every artist's intention, but perhaps it's the aim of some. :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

The difference between commercial/fake emcees and "real" emcees is simple. Real emcees do it for nothing more than the love of the music and don't care about the money....they write what they want to write and not what they think will sell albums. If you do that..yer real regardless of your content. If Nelly is in the business because he loves making the music above all other aspects then he is a real emcee. Just because you're real doesn't mean you can't be wack though. Theres tons of wack ass emcees in the underground..."underground" means nothing more than not signed. Cash Money Millionaires were underground not too long ago peddling tapes out the back of their cars. Now they actually are millionaires...they're also wack.

Asta!!

interesting point.... i don't know if i necessarily agree though... i mean, what's wrong with trying to get paid?! true, being underground means not signed, but what mc out there doesn't want to get signed... what mc out there doesn't want to get paid for what they "love" to do. some could argue that every mc out there, regardless of huge commercial success or lack thereof, is "real". it just seems to me that many people feel that "real" artists are those you can't find in a large retailer...

i write poetry, and am unsigned, but my friends tell me i'm good and i get decent to good responses at poetry readings. am i more real than the cats on def poetry jam or other circuits because i'm unsigned? if a fellow poet gets paid for their work, and they do it first because they can get paid and they happen to be good at it, are they any less real?

don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to provoke an argument, just further the discussion... i think we romanticize late 70s, early 80s hip hop, as if it was all about the music, when i would argue that much of it was/is about selfish ego, getting women, and getting some money (albeit not as much money as today).

omega2K4 · 01-31-2005, 10:27 AM

I can't stand new hip-hop/rap. 95% of it is just pure garbage. The last good CD I bought was Wu-Tang Clan's Legend of the Wu-Tang: Greatest Hits. A friend of mine gave me Mos Def's New Danger, and its okay. Not as good as Black on Both Sides, but there are still some solid tracks on it.

IC3 · 01-31-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega2K4

I can't stand new hip-hop/rap. 95% of it is just pure garbage. The last good CD I bought was Wu-Tang Clan's Legend of the Wu-Tang: Greatest Hits. A friend of mine gave me Mos Def's New Danger, and its okay. Not as good as Black on Both Sides, but there are still some solid tracks on it.

I know what your saying..Last new hiphop album i bought is Nas's Street Disciple, It's alright..Got some nice tracks on it. I haven't listened to it thoroughly enough yet to give my opinion on it..But it's does have some good tracks, I'm hoping that it grows on me some more.

I'm not sure how many of you buy your HipHop or download it..but either way..if it's new, We should give our opinions on it..Just to let the each other know if it's worth it.

caz · 01-31-2005, 02:03 PM

If that is the case... I was thinking about picking up that new Chali2na joint. Has anyone gotten it or heard some cuts from it? I am interested because for me he is a stand out in J5 and has some fire freestyles (ex: the one off the sway and tech album)

K-Wise · 01-31-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_el

i'm glad to see there are a lot of people on here with open minds.

ic3, that song you listed by immortal technique was pretty hot.

one could argue that the 1st cd is the best argument is the same regardless of genre. i think norah jones' 1st album is much better than her 2nd, though i still like it... she had passion on the first one that seems to be lacking on the first... jill scott's 1st album is better than her 2nd, again, it lacks the passion that was so evident on the 1st...

from the artistic sense, it somewhat makes sense. how can an artist not be changed by the success? his/her life is no longer the same, they no longer have the same vantage point, they may be going through different things that weren't occuring during the making of the 1st album... as such, it seems virtually impossible for the artist to have more of the same.

also, i think as consumers, we like what we heard the first time, and often find it difficult, or perhaps impossible, to accept the artist's newest release... i mean, if the artist talks/raps about the same subjects/content in the same exact manner... did the artist really grow? perhaps we want more of the same, but the artist wants to try something new musically. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that this is every artist's intention, but perhaps it's the aim of some. :shrug:

interesting point.... i don't know if i necessarily agree though... i mean, what's wrong with trying to get paid?! true, being underground means not signed, but what mc out there doesn't want to get signed... what mc out there doesn't want to get paid for what they "love" to do. some could argue that every mc out there, regardless of huge commercial success or lack thereof, is "real". it just seems to me that many people feel that "real" artists are those you can't find in a large retailer...

i write poetry, and am unsigned, but my friends tell me i'm good and i get decent to good responses at poetry readings. am i more real than the cats on def poetry jam or other circuits because i'm unsigned? if a fellow poet gets paid for their work, and they do it first because they can get paid and they happen to be good at it, are they any less real?

don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to provoke an argument, just further the discussion... i think we romanticize late 70s, early 80s hip hop, as if it was all about the music, when i would argue that much of it was/is about selfish ego, getting women, and getting some money (albeit not as much money as today).

Knaw it's cool I prolly didn't make myself clear enough. I said there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to get paid...no one wants to live poor for the rest of their lives thats for sure but don't let it govern your content is what I'm saying. Cats that get rich and then write about how rich they are is redundant..We already know that. Write something that makes me think. When an emcee lets other people tell him what to write about or writes songs that he thinks are gonna make him a lot of money he is a sell out. Hip-hop is nothing more than a bank for him. The people who REALLY love hip-hop, and by this I mean all aspects of it, want to write something that will leave it's mark on hip-hop. Lyrics that YEARS later people will still go back and say "Yeah those were REALLY good. I felt those lyrics." Not the sell outs though. They're in there to cash in...drop as many bullshit albums as they can until they have enough money to live their life off of then open their own label and make money off of other people. They don't care if their music makes a difference to anyone they only care that people buy it. Thats not real...that is fake.

See you misunderstood my meaning of the word "real" for a minute there. You are no more real than the people of Def Poetry because you are unsigned because the poets at Def Poetry are real regardless. You can tell it in their writing. They're doing poetry because they love it and it just so happens that someone decided to pay them for that. Not the other way around....

See the reason why people romantisize 70's, early 80's, and even early 90's hip-hop because it was purer back then. Hip-hop had not blown up like it is now...It didn't have the greedy bastards behind all the pop acts endorsing it. They didn't think there was any money in it..they thought it was a phad. Then all of a sudden they realize it is big so now they wanna cash in on it. They corperatized it and turned into a money making tool rather than musical expression. They signed young acts who were looking to better their lives and told them what to write about. This guy raps like this and it's gotten him a lot of money..we're gonna make a song like that..get his producer on the phone..etc. Thats not real. He should rap how he wants to rap. Thats the way it SHOULD be. It's not that way anymore.

Now you have people getting in it solely for that purpose alone...we have emcees exactly like those same greedy bastards that took control of it in the first place. These same greed bastard go to every radio station in the area, and MTV and whoever else they can reach and PAY them to play their artist and to give him a certain ammount of rotation. This is why you have millions of music videos out there but for some reason it seems like you're always seeing the same handful of artists and video's over and over and over again. It's not necessarily the artists themselves that have sold out all the time though don't get me wrong. Eminem is one of the artists you see over and over but he writes what he wants to write about. The only selling out he's done is following a formula that works for him. Thats all. But hopefully I cleared things up as to what the difference between a real and fake emcee is.

Asta!!

loonatic8her · 02-01-2005, 09:35 AM

Brenda got herself a boyfriend
Her boyfriend was her cousin, now lets watch tha joy end
She tried to hide her pregnancy, from her family
Who didn't really care to see, or give a damn if she
Went out and had a church of kids
As long as when tha check came they got first dibs
Now Brendas belly is gettin bigger
But no one seems ta notice any change in her figure
She's 12 years old and she's having a baby
In love with tha molester, who's sexing her crazy
And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever
And dreams of a world with tha two of them are together, whatever
He left her and she had tha baby solo, she had it on tha bathroom floor
And didn't know so, she didn't know, what ta throw away and what ta keep
She wrapped tha baby up and threw him in tha trash heep
I guess she thought she'd get away
Wouldn't hear tha cries
She didn't realize
How much tha tha little baby had her eyes
Now tha babys in tha trash heep balling
Momma can't help her, but it hurts ta hear her calling
Brenda wants ta run away
Momma say, you makin' me lose pay, tha social workers here everyday
Now Brenda's gotta make her own way
Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay
No money no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job
She tried ta sell crack, but end up getting robbed
So now what's next, there ain't nothin left ta sell
So she sees sex as a way of leavin hell
It's payin tha rent, so she really can't complain
Prostitute, found slain, and Brenda's her name, she's got a baby

loonatic8her · 02-01-2005, 09:37 AM

the above .... is the Late Tu Pac.... you want powerful, vibrant, lucid lyrics????? look no farther

uncle_el · 02-01-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

Knaw it's cool I prolly didn't make myself clear enough. I said there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to get paid...no one wants to live poor for the rest of their lives thats for sure but don't let it govern your content is what I'm saying. Cats that get rich and then write about how rich they are is redundant..We already know that. Write something that makes me think. When an emcee lets other people tell him what to write about or writes songs that he thinks are gonna make him a lot of money he is a sell out. Hip-hop is nothing more than a bank for him. The people who REALLY love hip-hop, and by this I mean all aspects of it, want to write something that will leave it's mark on hip-hop. Lyrics that YEARS later people will still go back and say "Yeah those were REALLY good. I felt those lyrics." Not the sell outs though. They're in there to cash in...drop as many bullshit albums as they can until they have enough money to live their life off of then open their own label and make money off of other people. They don't care if their music makes a difference to anyone they only care that people buy it. Thats not real...that is fake.

See you misunderstood my meaning of the word "real" for a minute there. You are no more real than the people of Def Poetry because you are unsigned because the poets at Def Poetry are real regardless. You can tell it in their writing. They're doing poetry because they love it and it just so happens that someone decided to pay them for that. Not the other way around....

See the reason why people romantisize 70's, early 80's, and even early 90's hip-hop because it was purer back then. Hip-hop had not blown up like it is now...It didn't have the greedy bastards behind all the pop acts endorsing it. They didn't think there was any money in it..they thought it was a phad. Then all of a sudden they realize it is big so now they wanna cash in on it. They corperatized it and turned into a money making tool rather than musical expression. They signed young acts who were looking to better their lives and told them what to write about. This guy raps like this and it's gotten him a lot of money..we're gonna make a song like that..get his producer on the phone..etc. Thats not real. He should rap how he wants to rap. Thats the way it SHOULD be. It's not that way anymore.

Now you have people getting in it solely for that purpose alone...we have emcees exactly like those same greedy bastards that took control of it in the first place. These same greed bastard go to every radio station in the area, and MTV and whoever else they can reach and PAY them to play their artist and to give him a certain ammount of rotation. This is why you have millions of music videos out there but for some reason it seems like you're always seeing the same handful of artists and video's over and over and over again. It's not necessarily the artists themselves that have sold out all the time though don't get me wrong. Eminem is one of the artists you see over and over but he writes what he wants to write about. The only selling out he's done is following a formula that works for him. Thats all. But hopefully I cleared things up as to what the difference between a real and fake emcee is.

Asta!!

i see what you meant, i was really just trying to spark further debate (which we've done). i feel the same way you do about "real" and "fake" artists... it just seems to me that a lot of people (not either of us) equate real with underground and lack of commercial sucess and fake with anyone/anything that has commercial success.
by extension, these same people feel that only "real" hip-hop heads listen to underground artists or little known artists, and that people who are "fake" only listen to what mtv and major radio stations play.

i think we both agree that one can enjoy hip-hop and listen to everything- that with rich lyrical content, that without, bling bling, gangster, conscious, etc. etc.

whether inside of hip hop, or out, people have always been intrigued by women and fame & fortune. it was true 200 years ago, and it's true now. as far as hip hop goes, people have always been rapping about

women:

nwa, a bitch iz a bitch, 1987
ll cool j, big ole butt, 1989
epmd, gold digger, 1991
digital underground, humpty dance, 1990
pete rock and cl smooth, skinz, 1992
outkast, jazzy belle, 1996
jay-z, girls, girls, girls, 2001

money:
eric b. and rakim, paid in full, 1987
eazy e, nobody move, 1988
bg, bling bling, 1999

and cars:
ll cool j, boomin' system, 1990
dr. dre, let me ride, 1992
g unit, stunt 101, 2004

not to mention fashion, drugs, violence, etc. etc.

now, each song i've listed can obviously be scrutinized, but i tried to list a variety of artists, some universally accepted as real, some fake, and others in between. for instance, bg isn't regarded as a "real" artist (though i do agree with your sentiment earlier about cash money millionaires as a whole), but he's left a lasting mark on hip hop, and really on american pop culture (since "bling bling" is now in the oxford dictionary and well known term).

i think the point i'm trying to make, lol, is that rappers have always been talking/rhyming/rapping about the same things. people have, are, and will continue to rap about making ends meet/stacking bread/making paper; chasing chicks/banging broads/talkin to girls; driving/flossing/stunting...

sometimes i feel like the argument about current rap/hip-hop versus old school/real hip-hop/rap is similar to people's laments about current pop music versus older pop music, or current r&b versus older r&b... the songs/messages aren't changing, it's the artists brining the songs that are.

K-Wise · 02-01-2005, 03:36 PM

^ Yeah theres always gonna be people who are extremists about it. If it's mainstream it HAS to suck...and if it's good they have to find something "better" that they can throw at you when you talk about a mainstream artists with talent. I ignore those people. I can totally agree with you on the content. Everything did sound different back then though. Up until the 90's you still had people trying to do their own thing....Like Wu-Tang..Rza's Production was unique for one..as for others? They may have sounded like someone coincidentally but not purposefully...

These days everyone sounds like everyone else on the greater scale it's like they look at each other to see whats working and copy it. Then pass around the same producers back and forth to each other like a whore. I love Pharell and Chad and I know Pharell tries to sound different with every beat but it still has that core sound..it still sounds like a Neptunes beat ya know? And EVERYONE is using Neptunes for beats. Gets a little old.

They're doin the same thing to Kanye now. And as time went on ya have more and more songs filling up the CD about money, girls, cars, drugs, n thuggin. Wouldn't be sooooo bad if each song didn't sound almost exactly the same and they at least tried to go above one syllable every now and then. But they clearly don't care..because apparently we don't care and we still buy the shit anyway...rest assured if we did start caring they'd wise the fuck up REAL quick.

Asta!!

MacGuyver · 02-01-2005, 10:51 PM

Now, I'm not the biggest rap guy, I'll say that first off, and I'm not going to get technical or anything, cause you guys will probably blow me out of the water. I just picked up Rhythm & Gangsta and Encore, and I love them both. The thing I love about Snoop is he's wicked smooth. His shit just fucking flows and I love music like that. The thing I love about Encore are the more serious Eminem tracks, I find that side of him alot better than when he acts stupid.

As far as mainstream stuff goes, I listen to the local rap station alot (JAMN 94.5) in the car. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the track grooves, and I'm really getting a positive flow out of the song, I won't get sick of it. On a side note, Kanye West 'The College Dropout' is one of my favorite albums right now, and Dre's '2001' has been for awhile.

01-28-2005, 02:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
ems Tilted Location: Los Angeles [The Valley], CA	HipHop fans, are you embarrassed by rap? I am. When people ask what I listen to, I usually say "ehh, a bit of everything" ... a lie. The majority of the music i listen to is underground hip-hop. this isnt the 50cent/ja rule/chingy bullshit you hear on the radio. I dont listen to songs about cars, hoes, ice, bitches, rims, spinners and cash; i despise that. I listen to the socially responsible, authority questioning, politically active, lyric intensive hiphop. I'm embarrassed to say i listen to "rap" bc people immediatly assume the worst [ie: 50cent, et al], so im forced to toss the "a bit of everything" lie I know this is a fairly retarded thread, but im curious if other hiphop-heads are in the same boat [??] __________________ hey there

01-28-2005, 03:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	I suppose you could add me to the boat if you wanna but I'm not ashamed to say I listen to rap. I am a rapper for one so how would that sound? If they want to assume the worst they can go ahead. If they're so closed minded about the genre that they only see/look for whats thrown at them on T.V. I could care less what their opinion of it is because it doesn't matter. They don't know shit. I'd prefer they don't listen to it at all. I hate it when people say stuff like "I don't like rap..but I like Eminem" or "Tupac" then don't listen to any of it. That implies that the only good rapper out right now is Eminem..thats just bullshit. I couldn't count the number of incredibly talented lyricists on even my hands n toes...shit Wu-Tang clan take up half the list by themselves. Don't care what they think. Be proud you listen to that shit and if they role their eyes at you and name names like Nelly and other rappers you no doubt hate for the lack of depth in their music drop some knowledge on them and put em in their place. Be like "Actually NO I don't listen to him..I listen to Dead Prez. You ever heard a them?" They say no you tell em then you dunno shit....Show them what you listen to. They can't honestly say it's bad unless they have a bias against the genre. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

01-28-2005, 04:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
bollocks Insane Location: Leeds, UK	Add me in too, commercial hiphop is, in a word, shit. Anyone that praises that load of bollocks should re-assess the way they define good music. I find it hard to socialise with anyone who actually rates this shit, as I found out when a couple of old school friends were busy 'gettin krunk' to some dump, mind numbing, BLINGIN' 50cent release. I mean fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own musical taste, but when I suggested to stick Blackalicious: NIA in the CD deck and stuck track one on, they all shot me down with looks of 'what the fuck is this shit'. Concious rap doesn't suit everyone's taste, but no one on the face of this planet can ignore its general message and place 50cent/Ja Rule/Lil Flip/Twista etc. etc. above it. Oooh yeah I forgot, Twista can rap fast so that means he must be talented. Fuck off. __________________ Why's Snoop Dog carry an umbrella? Fo' Drizzle Last edited by bollocks; 01-28-2005 at 04:08 AM..

01-28-2005, 04:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	Shit at one point I'd swear he actually was...not sure anymore though. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

01-28-2005, 10:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
uncle_el Crazy Location: n hollywood, ca	i'm not embarassed by rap in the least bit. conscious rap, bling bling, old school, underground, gangsta... i listen to it all. personally, i think a lot of people try to distance themselves from things heard on the radio (i.e. not conscious and not underground) in an attempt to say that all other rap is whack, and that it's not as real. my personal feeling is that the music that's underground and not "mainstream" is only there because it doesn't have commercial success. while we can argue about the many reasons why particular artists are commercial or not... it comes down to the money. if you're making music, and you're not making money, then you're underground... and thus certain people will accept you, and others won't have heard of you. if you're making musica, and you're making money, then you're commercial... and thus certain people will accept you, and others will have heard of you, but say you're whack or not real... it'd be great if more people were accepting of all genre's of rap, but unfortunatley we'll always have a division between what's "real", and what's not. i listen to 50 cent, i'm fake i listen to the last emperor, i'm real i listen to the game, i don't have musical taste i listen to little brother, then i've peeped something real i listen to jay-z, i must be into bling bling i listen to outkast, i guess i'm in between i listen to nas, his albums after the hype i must not know rap i listen to nas, his album before the hype, i must really love rap you like what you like, you love what you love. i'm not here to try and change people's minds, just open people's ears. __________________ An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of inprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr. The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses. - Malcolm X

01-28-2005, 08:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
degrawj I'm still waiting... Location: West Linn, OR	Well, I love hip-hop, and I tend to listen to both underground, and the more popular stuff. Not like 50-cent or Chingy tho. those guys are so freaking annoying. especially chingy. and lil' jon i find amusing, and listen to his stuff sometimes just because of the absurdity of it. but other popular hip-hop, like OutKast, Dre, and Eminem, I like to listen to. They are actually talented musicians, i think. as for underground, i like to listen to Japanese rap, local groups, or anything i can get my hands on.

01-28-2005, 10:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
degrawj I'm still waiting... Location: West Linn, OR	very good point uncle_el. i used to have an affliction to "pop" music, and i kind of still do. i don't listen to the radio at all, so usually i don't even know who's popular. but every now and again, i'll here one of those "pop" songs. like a while ago, i had heard that Milkshake song by Kelis. well, i liked it, bought a couple songs off the album thru iTunes, liked those, and ended up buying the CD. it's in pretty heavy rotation right now in my car. people like what they like, for whatever reason.

01-28-2005, 10:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
trickyy ►	i don't mind the popular stuff either. of course i don't like every song that comes out, but there are several pop-rap songs that i like. i kind of enjoy the shamelessly slick production. and you can't really get a crowd of people moving to a song that 5% of them have heard. i don't even mind some of the faster tempo pop songs, but i don't actually own any of it. most of the music i own is pretty rare. i'm more embarrased by the music i loved 3-4 years ago: radio classic rock. i have just heard the same 4 songs by the doors too much (and they've reduced rush's catalog to tom saywer). the chain-smoking dj's saying stuff like "now here's more of the greatest music ever made..." it's a joke. it would be like if they played "get low" every day for the next 35 years.

01-28-2005, 11:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Fourtyrulz Psycho Location: io-where?	Even though I consider myself more of a metal head, I absolutely hate fucking crunk and Lil' John and the Yin Yang morons or whatever the hell they try to sell. But on the other hand I don't think rap and hiphop have to be completely intellectual or deep. What ever happened to all the rappers like Snoop Dog and Dr. Dre or Warren G and Nate Dog, rappers you could just listen to and chill out to? I'm pretty ignorant of underground rap and hip hop today, aside from loving The Roots earlier albums, so I might not be speaking the truth. It just seems to me like the only thing rap offers today are high strung and intensely boring Beyonce or Twista. However, I do think that Jay-Z constantly pushes the boundaries of mainstream rap. His last albums have all been totally unique compared the the slew of garbage played with him on the radio. And the Beastie Boys constantly put to shame the ultra-produced electronic hip hop, I love listening to Mix Master Mike tearing up the turn tables...it always leaves my jaw hanging! Do any extreme metalheads find themself in the same position as the hiphop crowd? Me and my roomie were talking about this the other day. "What kind of music do you listen to?"..."Oh...uhhh....I guess I like rock and metal."..."Oh I LOVE rock and metal! Good Charlotte and The Killers are my favorite!!!" slaps forehead Always an awkward question when wearing say a Zyklon t shirt or something . __________________ the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation. faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. - Merriam-Webster's dictionary

01-28-2005, 11:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
caz Tilted Location: Illinois	too bad I gotta say that I am a huge hip hop fan, but I have lost my enthusiasm within the last couple of years. The bulk of stuff out right now just hurts to listen to... I miss the classic hiphop that plays on my ipod in regular rotation. I'm missing the Jay-z (reasonable doubt), Nas (illmatic) shit... what happened to the Gansgtarr type stuff and the original Wu. I miss that era of lyrical rawness! Don't get me wrong... there is some stuff out there that is low on the radar, but damn! What happened!?

01-28-2005, 11:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	The only thing embarassing is people who try to juxtapose the two. I dig it on both sides. 50's early demos were SICK. it was hot shit. Have you heard Jay-Z's early freestyles? Lots of these rap cats have plenty of skill. But they're two different kinds of music, thats all, both have the good and the bad.

01-28-2005, 11:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I miss the days of hip hop when it was Public Enemy and NWA on one side of things and DeLaSoul and Tribe Called Quest on the other... I don't think what is being called mainstream rap (50 cent, etc.) is any less "real" I just don't like what they have to say... It always felt like there was a fork in the road and rap (or the powers that be who chose what gets to become popular) decided to take the road where we get to talk about bitches, hoes and bling... I kind of feel like Reggae did the same thing... if you follow me. Can someone point me in the direction of Rap today that took the other path 'cause I think I missed my stop.... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-28-2005, 12:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
IC3 Poison Location: Canada	Look for some of these MC's Charlatan..I don't know if your gonna like this stuff, but it's not about bling or bitches. Jedi Mind Tricks (Preferably the albums: Phsyco Social & Violent by Design Even there new album Legacy of Blood) Canibus. He's got alot of good stuff, but he's also got alot of bad..in my opinion. I recommend his album Rip the Jacker. of all his albums i have..i think thats his best. Wutang - 36 Chambers & Wutang Forever. WuTang Solo shit: GZA-Liquid Swords, Beneath the Surface & Legend of the Liquid Swords. RZA-Digital Bullet & Birth of a Prince Raekwon-Only Built for Cuban Links I could list more wutang..But trying to think of everything they have put out hurts. Alchemist - 1st Infantry Planet Asia - The Grand Opening Talib kweli & Hi tek Mos Def - Black on Both sides Jurassic 5 - Quality Control Defari - Focused Daily Xzibit - At the Speed of Life, 40 dayz & 40 Nightz & Restless Souls of Mischef - 93 till Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol1 & Vol2 Some of that is new school shit, But most of it's old school from the 90's..I'm not sure what your looking for..But all that is worth checking out if you haven't already. I could list alot more but it's all east coast old school. I agree with you charlatan about 50cent, I have heard some pretty good verses from him..I just don't like his voice tone..it's always the same. I don't own any of his albums, but albums i have that he's featured on..he usually has not bad verses. __________________ "To win any battle, you must fight as if you were already dead" -Musashi Last edited by IC3; 01-28-2005 at 12:37 PM..

01-28-2005, 01:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	IC3: I love JMT but they do have a lot of the money/bitches stuff in their raps.... to quote "Jews, Muslims, Christians... what the fuck the difference, we all want money drugs and bitches" Ack, just kidding, i think that was Ill Bill... i dont know, JMT/Ill Bill/Non Phixion all blend together in my head.

01-28-2005, 01:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Thanks IC3... I will check out some of those... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-28-2005, 01:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	Nope, it was Ill Bill. My bad.

01-28-2005, 01:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	Haha, but on Visions of Gandhi where they says "I'll stab you through your fucking temple with a floorboard" just made a co-worker give me a pretty weird look.

01-28-2005, 01:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Well luckily I DO listen to a little bit of everything. I don't find it embarassing that most rap sucks though, because most music of any genre sucks and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. Just because a bunch of idiotic nincompoops think that all hip-hop/rap is "YO BITCH WHAT GONNA FUCK BUSS A CAP IN YO NIGGA" and don't consider it music doesn't mean that I'm going to go and hide the fact that I listen to it. Also, I do listen to quite a bit of commerical rap, and I'm still not ashamed. It's my own damn personal preference. I own CDs by Nas, 2Pac, Jay-Z, and Twista, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! laughs maniacally Admittedly, the lyrics can be shallow, the metaphors trite, and the messages repetitive to non-existent, but there are still things to enjoy about some commerical rap. I'm more into the "qualities" if you want to call them that, of the rapper's voice than the lyrics themselves. You can have the most socially conscious, mind-expanding rapper in the world, and if they flow like shit, I will not listen. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato Last edited by Suave; 01-28-2005 at 01:46 PM..

01-28-2005, 03:39 PM	#27 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	All the emcees Suave just listed are dope. Anyone dissing him for listening to Nas, Jay, Pac, shit even old Twista was good too should really give em another listen. I have no problem with someone trying to have commerical success but when you let that govern your content you've sold out period. See I don't necessarily have a problem with dudes rappin about hoes, money, weapons, and violence if thats really how they're living....if they show that they're actually TRYING to put out quality stuff and not just dishing out a new half assed album every year so you can hurry up and cash in. For instance Missy Elliot openly admitted to half-assing all her albums of the past 5 years or so because "people will buy them anyway" so she doesn't have to try hard. Lazy ass shit. She's right though...people will still buy them anyway...because they're stupid and she's calling them stupid to their face and they don't even fuckin realize it. The difference between commercial/fake emcees and "real" emcees is simple. Real emcees do it for nothing more than the love of the music and don't care about the money....they write what they want to write and not what they think will sell albums. If you do that..yer real regardless of your content. If Nelly is in the business because he loves making the music above all other aspects then he is a real emcee. Just because you're real doesn't mean you can't be wack though. Theres tons of wack ass emcees in the underground..."underground" means nothing more than not signed. Cash Money Millionaires were underground not too long ago peddling tapes out the back of their cars. Now they actually are millionaires...they're also wack. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

01-29-2005, 12:05 AM	#28 (permalink)
Dbass Crazy	I'm personally not a "rap" or "hip-hop" listener in any sense. I have to say that aside from elementary school experience with the West Coast, I don't really know much of it. But I can tell you this: In Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (set in 1992), there are two rap stations, basically - Playback FM which has the lighter, sort of upbeat and lame stuff; and Radio Los Santos, which has Death Row records like '187' and 'nothin' but a G thang'- and I have to say I far prefer the latter. My reason is that, this music reflects a genuine need to make shitty reality known. 187 is amazing, it really sort of captures the horrible conditions of black people in the LA ghetto. Nowadays, what does anything mean? I will admit, I don't listen to this stuff, but I've got a healthy dose of MTV: it seems to me that the main message in rap now is "I'm tough, I have a lot of money, I'm popular and sexy, and I drive a better car than you" or "Let's party...don't fuck with me, I'm harder than you, also I'm rich and sexy and drive a nice car" I again am the first to admit I don't know rap or hip-hop, but I put my two cents in for old-school rap

01-29-2005, 04:50 PM	#30 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	^ It's true. And I feel you about early west coast stuff. It was ultimate chill, cruisin music. It is classic. These days chill music for me is different...like Pharcyde, or Tribe, or Slum Village or some shit like that. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

01-31-2005, 10:27 AM	#32 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	I can't stand new hip-hop/rap. 95% of it is just pure garbage. The last good CD I bought was Wu-Tang Clan's Legend of the Wu-Tang: Greatest Hits. A friend of mine gave me Mos Def's New Danger, and its okay. Not as good as Black on Both Sides, but there are still some solid tracks on it. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

01-31-2005, 02:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
caz Tilted Location: Illinois	If that is the case... I was thinking about picking up that new Chali2na joint. Has anyone gotten it or heard some cuts from it? I am interested because for me he is a stand out in J5 and has some fire freestyles (ex: the one off the sway and tech album)

02-01-2005, 09:35 AM	#36 (permalink)
loonatic8her Crazy Location: Greater Atlanta, Ga.	Brenda got herself a boyfriend Her boyfriend was her cousin, now lets watch tha joy end She tried to hide her pregnancy, from her family Who didn't really care to see, or give a damn if she Went out and had a church of kids As long as when tha check came they got first dibs Now Brendas belly is gettin bigger But no one seems ta notice any change in her figure She's 12 years old and she's having a baby In love with tha molester, who's sexing her crazy And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever And dreams of a world with tha two of them are together, whatever He left her and she had tha baby solo, she had it on tha bathroom floor And didn't know so, she didn't know, what ta throw away and what ta keep She wrapped tha baby up and threw him in tha trash heep I guess she thought she'd get away Wouldn't hear tha cries She didn't realize How much tha tha little baby had her eyes Now tha babys in tha trash heep balling Momma can't help her, but it hurts ta hear her calling Brenda wants ta run away Momma say, you makin' me lose pay, tha social workers here everyday Now Brenda's gotta make her own way Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay No money no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job She tried ta sell crack, but end up getting robbed So now what's next, there ain't nothin left ta sell So she sees sex as a way of leavin hell It's payin tha rent, so she really can't complain Prostitute, found slain, and Brenda's her name, she's got a baby __________________ The Loonatic Did you get rid of all the voices in your head? Do you now miss them and the things they said?

02-01-2005, 09:37 AM	#37 (permalink)
loonatic8her Crazy Location: Greater Atlanta, Ga.	the above .... is the Late Tu Pac.... you want powerful, vibrant, lucid lyrics????? look no farther __________________ The Loonatic Did you get rid of all the voices in your head? Do you now miss them and the things they said?

02-01-2005, 03:36 PM	#39 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	^ Yeah theres always gonna be people who are extremists about it. If it's mainstream it HAS to suck...and if it's good they have to find something "better" that they can throw at you when you talk about a mainstream artists with talent. I ignore those people. I can totally agree with you on the content. Everything did sound different back then though. Up until the 90's you still had people trying to do their own thing....Like Wu-Tang..Rza's Production was unique for one..as for others? They may have sounded like someone coincidentally but not purposefully... These days everyone sounds like everyone else on the greater scale it's like they look at each other to see whats working and copy it. Then pass around the same producers back and forth to each other like a whore. I love Pharell and Chad and I know Pharell tries to sound different with every beat but it still has that core sound..it still sounds like a Neptunes beat ya know? And EVERYONE is using Neptunes for beats. Gets a little old. They're doin the same thing to Kanye now. And as time went on ya have more and more songs filling up the CD about money, girls, cars, drugs, n thuggin. Wouldn't be sooooo bad if each song didn't sound almost exactly the same and they at least tried to go above one syllable every now and then. But they clearly don't care..because apparently we don't care and we still buy the shit anyway...rest assured if we did start caring they'd wise the fuck up REAL quick. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

02-01-2005, 10:51 PM	#40 (permalink)
MacGuyver You're going to have to trust me! Location: Massachusetts	Now, I'm not the biggest rap guy, I'll say that first off, and I'm not going to get technical or anything, cause you guys will probably blow me out of the water. I just picked up Rhythm & Gangsta and Encore, and I love them both. The thing I love about Snoop is he's wicked smooth. His shit just fucking flows and I love music like that. The thing I love about Encore are the more serious Eminem tracks, I find that side of him alot better than when he acts stupid. As far as mainstream stuff goes, I listen to the local rap station alot (JAMN 94.5) in the car. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the track grooves, and I'm really getting a positive flow out of the song, I won't get sick of it. On a side note, Kanye West 'The College Dropout' is one of my favorite albums right now, and Dre's '2001' has been for awhile. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. ---Aristotle Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me. ---John Fletcher