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Old 11-24-2004, 02:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Buying a keyboard.

I really didn't know which forum to put this in, so mods please move it to whichever is more appropriate.

I'm planning on starting piano lessons within the next few days and I will be shopping for a keyboard during the Thanksgiving weekend. What I noticed right off the bat is that there are at least three keyboard sizes. There are 61-key keyboards, 72-key, and 88-key. My question is, what's the difference? Do the 61-keyed keyboards lack certain notes that 88-key ones have? Which is a right buy for a beginner? Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2004, 03:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There isnt really a difference between them, besides the number of octaves and piano has. I guess the ones with more keys have more octaves. Any pretty much works for a beginner. It depends on what you want. I started with a 61 keyed cuz they were cheaper. I now have been playing for 4 years and have since moved on to a upright piano.
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Old 11-24-2004, 03:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm a piano an keyboard salesman. I'll give you the best advice I can.

If you're getting a keyboard, decide if you want to learn to play "piano" or "keyboard". The difference is that, while both have their keys configured in the same way, a keyboard will often allow you to split the keyboard itself into two sections. When split, the lower plays "single fingered chords" which trigger a backing rhythm and make the sound of a band playing along with you and the upper section will just act like a piano. *

This is a particular type of playing, and doesn't require quite as much coordination as playing with two hands in the traditional piano manner.

It is possible to learn this on a keyboard, but most keyboards don’t have “Weighted Keys”. This is a type of key action sometimes present on digital pianos that emulates the feel of playing an acoustic piano. The mechanism inside each key gives the correct amount of resistance to make the transition between the digital instrument and an acoustic one as seamless as possible.

Digital pianos of a good quality don’t have to be expensive, especially the brand I represent! I’m not gonna promote here, so pm me if you want a bit more information in that regard.

There’s loads more info if you’re interested. Its one of the most fun instruments to pick and in some ways is the most straight forward. Just post here if you’d like me to go into the pros and cons of both types in more depth.


* A digital piano may allow a split but is less likely to have the backing rhythm feature, although of course, some do.
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Old 11-24-2004, 06:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah, please go into pros and cons. I browsed Best Buy's website and they have some Casio and Yamaha keyboards with pressure sensetive keys. Is that what you were talking about? I've "played" on a real piano before and the harder you press the louder the sound gets, is that what it is? I'll be taking lessons from a piano player, so I would like to have a keyboard that simulates a piano. Of course, I've seen some keyboards sell for $600, but it's way over my budget. I can spend about $200. Is there anything nice in that price range that you can recommend?
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Old 11-25-2004, 09:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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what dobster said above seems quite helpful---he seems in a better position to give advice to someone just starting out than i am--but since i am interested in this, i'll tell what i think anyway.

my biais is toward piano--i started out playing it and it is still my primary instrument.

so i assume that 88 keys would be preferable for the range of possibilities they give you.
i find that weighted keys are preferable because they have more nuance in the action and because building strength in your hands would let you move into digital or acoustic more easily than using a digital keyboard up front, which would let you develop co-ordination but not strength.

i also have found that analog is preferable to digital because there is more room in the former for quirks.

i guess it depends upon how you think about the instrument.
i tend to think about them as individual instruments that have individual possibilities and part of the fun is finding them.
when i play electric, i usually use an old farfisa organ, which has all kinds of curious features (the keys for example are basically on/off switches, but there is alot of play at the threshold--the farfisa tends to associate lighter pressure with higher pitch, but those pitches are consistent once you find them--so with practice you can generate microtones by controlling the pressure you place on the keys--the emphasis is on lightness of touch and stability within that--if your hand shakes, you loose the pitch--so it is ulitmately about control)
i also like delay and distortion boxes in the electric format. acoustic, i do not need them--i play in an electric environment using acoustic piano without treatments and to hear it you would not be able to tell which instrument is producing which sound.

if you get a digital keybaord, all i can really say is try to think about it as a synthisizer as early in the game as you can and try to use that to move away from using presets and into building your own sounds. if you go this route, i would also check out early electronic music recordings all the way to get a sense of what options were being developed before folk started thinking about synths as copies of traditional instruments. you'll find that it is a very different approach to keyboards than treating them as surrogate pianos. digital keyboards give you many many possibilities but they also seem to come along with a way of thinking built around them that shuts these possibilities down. no need to give into it.

you might well be able to find keyboards on ebay for much less than you would find ina retail outlet, but to to that you would have to already know pretty much what you are looking for.
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It all depends on what kind of sound you want to produce. 88 keys are only necessary if you're going to use them all, which 95% of songs do not. There's no reason a decent synth wouldn't be able to transpose the keys to different octaves. Analog synths produce some of the warmest tones, but are no longer in production for the most part so they may cost you.
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Old 11-29-2004, 04:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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there's pressure sensitive, and then there's weighted. Usually weighted keys are also pressure sensitive. The difference is that the weighted keys FEEL like piano keys when you strike them - - -that initial resistance followed by a quick downstroke. Regular keyboard keys don't feel like that - they're a smooth motion from top to bottom. This can throw you off if you switch from one to the other - like when you go from practicing on your keyboard to playing on your piano teacher's baby grand.

Pressure sensitive keys adjust the sound based on how hard you press them. Press them softly and you get a quiet tone. Hit 'em hard, and you get a loud, abrupt tone.
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What is your piano instructor telling you? A lot of them advise you to get a keyboard that closely mimics piano action. 88 keys ... progressive hammer action (not just weighted). Yamaha makes the closest keyboard to piano feel in my opinion. I play a P90 on stage;I don't use the internal sounds or speakers though ... I bought it specifically for how it felt.

Velocity sensitivity is what most people are talking about when they mention pressure sensitive keys. This is absolutely essential for piano realism. But there is also a feature called "aftertouch" ... this adjust the sound based on how hard you press the key AFTER you've already pressed it. You probably don't need aftertouch for piano lessons, but you may want it later on.

The analog vs. digital debate is kind of moot if you're just looking for a cheap keyboard to learn piano on. Go digital for an inexpensive piano sound. If you want to get into programming and ambient sound you might go analog. I use both on stage ...

Some instructors don't want you to play keyboards at all, but tell you that you must have an acoustic piano. My daughter just started lessons and they wouldn't even enroll her unless we had a piano (we do).

So please talk with the instructor.

But if I'm too late ... what did get?
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Old 11-30-2004, 10:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSnake
Yeah, please go into pros and cons. I browsed Best Buy's website and they have some Casio and Yamaha keyboards with pressure sensetive keys. Is that what you were talking about? I've "played" on a real piano before and the harder you press the louder the sound gets, is that what it is? I'll be taking lessons from a piano player, so I would like to have a keyboard that simulates a piano. Of course, I've seen some keyboards sell for $600, but it's way over my budget. I can spend about $200. Is there anything nice in that price range that you can recommend?
Could you guys recommend a particular instrument in his price range? I would be interested also, although my need is for home recording.
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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For $200 you won't be getting much. Casio and Yamaha consumer level keyboards are about all you can find at this price range. You might find velocity sensitive keys, but probably not "weighted" and definitely not hammer-action. The sounds themselves will be sorely lacking in quality.

I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for." If I were you I would save up and get a nicer keyboard. That being said, if all you can afford is $200 ... then buy the one YOU think feels and sounds best. At this price range they're all about the same.

Incidentally, a Yamaha P-90 is about $500-$600 and that's the one I was talking about in my previous post.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP90

Doug

Last edited by vanblah; 11-30-2004 at 12:37 PM..
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