Copyright Help - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Draconis · 11-10-2004, 04:56 AM

I'm recording my new album at home and I want to make it available for free online. The only problem is that I'm afraid of people plagairizing my work. Does anyone know of a quick and more importantly cheap way of doing copyrighting material? Perhaps some place online?
Thanks TFPers,
Drac

P.S.
I will be posting the link to where you can download the album for free from my website at a later date, that is once I'm done recording, mastering, and copyrighting all the songs.

Cadwiz · 11-10-2004, 05:15 AM

Burn it on a CD, put it in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. Don't open it.

superiorrain · 11-10-2004, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadwiz

Burn it on a CD, put it in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. Don't open it.

Erm yeah i think that works to but i'd write yourself a latter to go with it stating what is on the cd and the time and date that it was made. Plus make sure you sign it to. When you get it all back make sure the envelope has a date stamped on it from the Postal Service. If not send it out again.

warrrreagl · 11-10-2004, 06:31 AM

If I was going to stand up in court and accuse someone of copyright infringement, I would much rather be holding a U.S. Copyright document in my hand instead of some silly un-opened envelope.

If you're serious about copyrighting your stuff, then send in the money and get it copyrighted. Don't fool around with any Mickey Mouse tricks that may or may not hold up in court. It's not worth it.

balderdash111 · 11-10-2004, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

If I was going to stand up in court and accuse someone of copyright infringement, I would much rather be holding a U.S. Copyright document in my hand instead of some silly un-opened envelope.

If you're serious about copyrighting your stuff, then send in the money and get it copyrighted. Don't fool around with any Mickey Mouse tricks that may or may not hold up in court. It's not worth it.

What he said. Getting a federal copyright is easy and pretty cheap, too.

Actually, you should do two registrations:

1 for the sound recording
1 for the songs you wrote (i.e., the lyrics, melody, etc)

Grand total will be $60 plus postage.

jwoody · 11-10-2004, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

If I was going to stand up in court and accuse someone of copyright infringement, I would much rather be holding a U.S. Copyright document in my hand instead of some silly un-opened envelope.

If you're serious about copyrighting your stuff, then send in the money and get it copyrighted. Don't fool around with any Mickey Mouse tricks that may or may not hold up in court. It's not worth it.

Sensible advice. A friend's band had four free songs on their website and some unscrupulous person made up some CD's and sold them to an independant record shop. My friend only found out when somebody approached him at a gig saying how much she loved their new single.

gboz · 11-10-2004, 08:18 AM

Do it the right way. Everything you need to know should be somewhere on this site.
http://www.copyright.gov/

roachboy · 11-10-2004, 08:20 AM

look into creative commons.

http://creativecommons.org/

as for copyright law in general, look here:

http://www.case.edu/affil/sce/authorship/syllabus.html

alot depends on the type of music you are doing and the kind of control you want to have over it. if you are releasing materials through a website a creative commons copyright might be more reasonable than a straight one--if you see music recorded as commecial for live performances and by using your webstie are basically conceding that you are not doing the recordings for cash as the objective, then it makes sense.
if you do not stipulate the kind of copyright you want, you will default to existing copyright law.

for the kind of music i do, straight copyright is useless because we do not use scores. we could score it ex post, but the notation would still not describe the kind of sound, so it is a waste of time. we would like to have some control over how our stuff is used, but more at the level of knowing about it than at the level of putting a record label in a position to sue someone for not paying them for your music.

Draconis · 11-10-2004, 08:49 AM

Basically, what I want is for my songs to be available for anyone to download for free but not for other people to be able to play and claim as their own. I would see that as a serious problem and an afront to my music. All I want is something that gives me solice in knowing that if anyone ever plagairizes my work, I will be able to go tooth and nail on them and strip from them whatever profit was made from that song. I wouldn't really care if I saw a cent of it. I just happen to be a very selfish person when it comes to my intellectual property.

vanblah · 11-10-2004, 08:50 AM

To protect yourself from someone covering your song for profit you need form PA (a simple chord chart and lyrics will work you don't need a score unless it's complicated work). You can bundle all of your songs as an album and copyright all of them for $30. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY.

You need a form SR for the recording(s) itself. That way if someone copies the song (or songs) to another CD and tries to sell it you are protected there. Again you can put all of your songs on one CD as an album. Also $30.

It takes almost a year to get your certificate of copyright back from the office. But you are protected as soon as you mail the envelope (actually you are protected the moment you put the song into a recorded medium but that's hard to prove).

If you are trying to copyright a "sound" or "style" forget about it--that won't work. You can't copyright those things. The best you can do is copyright the material (form PA) and the recording (form SR).

Mailing the CD to yourself or a lawyer DOES NOT stand up in court. It's too easy to fake the postage date. If you have to go to court and someone else has copyrighted your material you are out of luck.

Draconis · 11-10-2004, 08:52 AM

Thanks. I'll send it in as soon as I'm done. I look forward to hearing what you all think of the album once I put it up.

SecretMethod70 · 11-10-2004, 09:38 AM

Put me down as a vote for roachboy's suggestions. Creative Commons rocks.

vanblah · 11-10-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconis

Basically, what I want is for my songs to be available for anyone to download for free but not for other people to be able to play and claim as their own. I would see that as a serious problem and an afront to my music. All I want is something that gives me solice in knowing that if anyone ever plagairizes my work, I will be able to go tooth and nail on them and strip from them whatever profit was made from that song. I wouldn't really care if I saw a cent of it. I just happen to be a very selfish person when it comes to my intellectual property.

Then you probably don't want to go with the Creative Commons model. Furthermore, if you EVER publish a song and expect to collect royalties then you will definitely want to use the Copyright Office. Creative Commons has that spelled out on their <a href="http://creativecommons.org/policies#license" target=_blank>legal page</a>. They are just there as a method to share and distribute your work so that you can propagate your own name. That's a good thing.

I love the concept of Creative Commons but if you look carefully all of their logos and some of their text is protected by Trademark and copyright. I think that's kind of funny.

You'll also need to become a member of ASCAP or BMI or some other royalty collecting corporate piece of beaurocratic bullsh*t.

I hate them just as much as anybody, but trying to collect royalties without them is painfully difficult.

Doug (ASCAP)

balderdash111 · 11-10-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanblah

You'll also need to become a member of ASCAP or BMI or some other royalty collecting corporate piece of beaurocratic bullsh*t.

I hate them just as much as anybody, but trying to collect royalties without them is painfully difficult.

Just to be clear - you don't need to join ASCAP or BMI (or Harry Fox or any other organization) to get a copyright on your songs. You only need them if you want to collect royalties (which, with all due respect, is probably not worth the effort unless you become much better known).

You technically don't need them to collect royalties for you, either, but they will do a better job than you can of tracking who is doing what with your song

Doug, do you work for ASCAP (noticed the "(ASCAP)" next to your name)?

vanblah · 11-10-2004, 07:17 PM

No ... just a member of ASCAP.

Draconis · 11-12-2004, 01:03 PM

Thanks guys. The thing is that I don't really give a shit about getting money for this. I'm just going to put them up for free download with a paypal thing or some mode of donation if people feel like it. My main beef would be if someone claimed my work as their own. That's just a big slap in the face. If that were to happen, I'd just want to make sure they didn't see a dime from it.
Also, what does it take to become a member of ASCAP or BMI? The chances of me (or any musician) making it are pretty slim but just in case, I'd like to know what the right process would be.
One last thing: vanblah, since you're a member of ASCAP, I'm assuming you're a musician of some nature. You have any stuff online. I'm always looking for new stuff to listen to.
Love, peace, and chicken grease,
Drac

balderdash111 · 11-12-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconis

Thanks guys. The thing is that I don't really give a shit about getting money for this. I'm just going to put them up for free download with a paypal thing or some mode of donation if people feel like it. My main beef would be if someone claimed my work as their own. That's just a big slap in the face. If that were to happen, I'd just want to make sure they didn't see a dime from it.

Again, I would suggest the copyright office, then post them on your site (or whatever you plan to do) and say that you give people permission to copy and share the recordings, but not to re-record the songs themselves (or maybe you don't care about that) and not to claim authorship or change the attribution.

Draconis · 11-12-2004, 09:52 PM

I got that. I was just being polite and making a point about unscrupulous artists that would do such things. I'm going to do the full out copyright office thing.

vanblah · 11-13-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

One last thing: vanblah, since you're a member of ASCAP, I'm assuming you're a musician of some nature. You have any stuff online. I'm always looking for new stuff to listen to.

Sorry for the delay. I've been out of town.

It's pretty easy to become a member of ASCAP or BMI. All you have to have is a certain number of songs in a recorded medium broadcast via some other medium. I'm not sure of the details though.

You can listen to some of my stuff at http://www.chessclubrocks.com ...
I requested some critiques in a thread awhile back: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=73089

Please let me know when your stuff is up.

Doug

11-10-2004, 04:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	Copyright Help I'm recording my new album at home and I want to make it available for free online. The only problem is that I'm afraid of people plagairizing my work. Does anyone know of a quick and more importantly cheap way of doing copyrighting material? Perhaps some place online? Thanks TFPers, Drac P.S. I will be posting the link to where you can download the album for free from my website at a later date, that is once I'm done recording, mastering, and copyrighting all the songs. __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!

11-10-2004, 05:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cadwiz Insane Location: work	Burn it on a CD, put it in an envelope, and mail it to yourself. Don't open it. __________________ Semper Fi

11-10-2004, 06:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	If I was going to stand up in court and accuse someone of copyright infringement, I would much rather be holding a U.S. Copyright document in my hand instead of some silly un-opened envelope. If you're serious about copyrighting your stuff, then send in the money and get it copyrighted. Don't fool around with any Mickey Mouse tricks that may or may not hold up in court. It's not worth it. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed. Last edited by warrrreagl; 11-10-2004 at 06:34 AM..

11-10-2004, 08:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
gboz Crazy	Do it the right way. Everything you need to know should be somewhere on this site. http://www.copyright.gov/ __________________ Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. -Berthold Auerbach

11-10-2004, 08:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	look into creative commons. http://creativecommons.org/ as for copyright law in general, look here: http://www.case.edu/affil/sce/authorship/syllabus.html alot depends on the type of music you are doing and the kind of control you want to have over it. if you are releasing materials through a website a creative commons copyright might be more reasonable than a straight one--if you see music recorded as commecial for live performances and by using your webstie are basically conceding that you are not doing the recordings for cash as the objective, then it makes sense. if you do not stipulate the kind of copyright you want, you will default to existing copyright law. for the kind of music i do, straight copyright is useless because we do not use scores. we could score it ex post, but the notation would still not describe the kind of sound, so it is a waste of time. we would like to have some control over how our stuff is used, but more at the level of knowing about it than at the level of putting a record label in a position to sue someone for not paying them for your music. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

11-10-2004, 08:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	Basically, what I want is for my songs to be available for anyone to download for free but not for other people to be able to play and claim as their own. I would see that as a serious problem and an afront to my music. All I want is something that gives me solice in knowing that if anyone ever plagairizes my work, I will be able to go tooth and nail on them and strip from them whatever profit was made from that song. I wouldn't really care if I saw a cent of it. I just happen to be a very selfish person when it comes to my intellectual property. __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!

11-10-2004, 08:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	To protect yourself from someone covering your song for profit you need form PA (a simple chord chart and lyrics will work you don't need a score unless it's complicated work). You can bundle all of your songs as an album and copyright all of them for $30. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY. You need a form SR for the recording(s) itself. That way if someone copies the song (or songs) to another CD and tries to sell it you are protected there. Again you can put all of your songs on one CD as an album. Also $30. It takes almost a year to get your certificate of copyright back from the office. But you are protected as soon as you mail the envelope (actually you are protected the moment you put the song into a recorded medium but that's hard to prove). If you are trying to copyright a "sound" or "style" forget about it--that won't work. You can't copyright those things. The best you can do is copyright the material (form PA) and the recording (form SR). Mailing the CD to yourself or a lawyer DOES NOT stand up in court. It's too easy to fake the postage date. If you have to go to court and someone else has copyrighted your material you are out of luck.

11-10-2004, 08:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	Thanks. I'll send it in as soon as I'm done. I look forward to hearing what you all think of the album once I put it up. __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!

11-10-2004, 09:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Put me down as a vote for roachboy's suggestions. Creative Commons rocks. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

11-10-2004, 07:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	No ... just a member of ASCAP.

11-12-2004, 01:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	Thanks guys. The thing is that I don't really give a shit about getting money for this. I'm just going to put them up for free download with a paypal thing or some mode of donation if people feel like it. My main beef would be if someone claimed my work as their own. That's just a big slap in the face. If that were to happen, I'd just want to make sure they didn't see a dime from it. Also, what does it take to become a member of ASCAP or BMI? The chances of me (or any musician) making it are pretty slim but just in case, I'd like to know what the right process would be. One last thing: vanblah, since you're a member of ASCAP, I'm assuming you're a musician of some nature. You have any stuff online. I'm always looking for new stuff to listen to. Love, peace, and chicken grease, Drac __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!

11-12-2004, 09:52 PM	#18 (permalink)
Draconis Insane Location: Normandy, June of '44	I got that. I was just being polite and making a point about unscrupulous artists that would do such things. I'm going to do the full out copyright office thing. __________________ STEVE MCKENNA!