Maybe the rap itself doesn't have a lot of harmonies, I mean, he's rapping not singing, but you can't say that Kanye's songs aren't chock full of harmonies, they're in every song.

You want rap harmony? Try Bone Thugs, Jurassic 5 or even Usher.

Rap is just like poetry. It's stupid, but no one will admit it. Even if it's good, it's still rap. It's basically impossible for any rap/hip hop song to be good without someone singing the chorus.

It's true. Rap is poetry. I suppose if a rap song has harmony then it wont be rap at all. I just can't get used to that kind of lyrical delivery though. My problem is that I can only enjoy a rap song on a musical or a lyrical level, never both because the two don’t mesh. It's just a listening preference I have that’s all.

See I can't help but be offended just a little bit by posts like this being an emcee myself and all. I'd like to think I write very well, but, yer entitled to your opinion it's cool. I know hip-hop isn't for everyone.

Asta!!

I'm not knocking it, or belittling those involved in it...I just flat out don't like the shit. They probably don't like George Michael, or Billy Joel...I'm not telling THEM to try it some more. If enough people like any artist, and their work, the money will be spent, the profits realized, and everybody will be happy.

If you've really heard underground like you've said you have, you would know that that statement is not true. Immortal Technique raps about politics, conditions, etc. His song "Dance With the Devil" is in my opinion the best song of all time. There are also rappers like Sage Francis and Aesop Rock who right beautiful poetry.

I'll be back tommorow or later on tonight and I'll post some of my lyrics up for you. If you think mine are garbage then you really just don't like hip-hop at all.

Asta!!

i just listened to delton 3030 for the first time in a year or so

thats some great stuff

If you're still knocking the rap and hiphop that you hear on the radio and making harsh generalizations that blanket over the rest of the genre, then all you're doing is making an uneducated statement.

to say that ALL rap is stupid and materialistic and that ALL rappers are obsessed with self-image and boasting about bitches and riches is just stupid. if you took the time to delve a little deeper than the radio by maybe asking on TFP for a little advice on good hip hop, you won't have the same impression on it.

artists like brother ali are the opposite of most hip hop on the radio. he doesn't brag about how good he looks (he's an overweight albino guy that sweats a lot and is really hairy). he raps about self-esteem in fair amounts and other happy topics. it's feel-good music.

to hear some educated (or conspiracy-laden, however you want to interpret it) music, listen to immortal technique. he raps about the bush administration, the war, 9/11, and basically all the things he believes is wrong with the country while spitting in amazing rhythm and rhyme.

rap with one, well-connected idea/story? here are a couple songs to name a few:

1) 7L and esoteric - word association --- a comedic dialogue between a psychiatrist and his patient, going back and forth playing word association.

2) 7L and esoteric - Terrorist's Cell --- a chilling first-hand narrative in the eyes of a 9/11 plane hijacker.

3) blackalicious - deception --- a catchy, well-written, rhythmic story about the dangers of fame and ego inflation.

4) immortal technique - dance with the devil --- by far the best story-rap song of all time. even if you don't like rap, you can't NOT appreciate the lyrical skill and story telling ability of this man. i thought about this song for weeks after i heard it. a perfect example of how a simple beat can convey just as much of the song as the words.

5) slick rick - children's story --- famous old school song. slick rick was known as the original rap story-teller.

listen to at least 2 of those songs, and i'm sure you'll realize that there's more to rap then big-screen tv's, blunts, 40s, bitches, rims, tv's in the head rests, gettin' crunk, threesomes, foursomes, moresomes, going platinum, shoothing people/getting shot, gangs, money, jewelry, macked out cars, and any other ridiculous shit p.diddy/ja rule/lil jon have to "rap" about.


while i have just realized that all of this writing will have been done in vain because anti-rap kids will continue to stay anti-rap out of sheer principle/stubborness, i stand by my words and will continue to try to inform people of the breadth of hip hop.

peace.

Atmosphere. Best, clearest rapper out there.

Also, the song I recommend listening to first is...
"Always Coming Back Home To You" (by Atmosphere). :love:

To anybody that posted saying that they like rap:

Do you like rap because of the music itself or the lyrics?

Because to me, the music is electronic, techno, trance, etc, rap isn't even making its own music to go along with the song.

with Mos Def, Talib Kweli, common...i definitely listen for the lyrics.

Some stuff out there has all the integrity of pop music...fun to listen to, but not much substance. But there's real stuff out there too...and i'm not a purist. I just think both have their places. But if you're looking to see if rap is "real" or not...go to some of those artists.

Go listen to "Check Your Head" by Beastie Boys. They rap AND they play their own instruments on most of the album. Is it the exception to the rule? Yes. But on the other hand, a great producer is just as good as an instrumentalist. Finding the right music to go with the rhyme is a tough thing. Take "Roses" by Kanye West. Has anyone heard a rap song in recent memory where most of it has NO BEAT? And the sample is absolutely perfect. One of the best rap songs I've heard in the past 5 years...

I just finished watching a great concert at this link:

Sandip Burman

It is not hip-hop. The reason I am posting it is because I am noticing that there is an overwhelming lack of rhythmic awareness in this thread from those who are saying rap is "all lyrics and no music." For those brought up on music which stems out of the west (classical, folk, rock and pop), rhythmic training and hearing is very underdeveloped.

While rap rhythmically isn't quite at the level of Indian classical music, the best examples hold a lot of rhythmic interest. If you think rap is all lyrics, think again. Listen to how the artist lays back on the time, speeds up, displaces accents, changes rhythmic groupings to go against the main pulse...that's why I like it. The wordplay ain't too shabby either.

Yes!

Too much emphasis on melody these days, not much on rhythm. I think being a jazz enthusiast helps one to appreciate rhythmic variation.. with a good jazz artist, how he plays is just as important as what he plays.

I don't listen to mainstream hip hop, but there's a highly developed sense of rhythm throughout the genre. I hesitate to make generalizations and it's not a universal, but for the most part that's true. When you don't sing, rhythm is all you have. You better do something interesting with it.

EDIT - And about the Beastie Boys, one of my favourite tracks by them is Three MC's and One DJ. It's just them, Mix Master Mike and a drum machine. There is no melody.

When I used to march I loved listening to the drum line during the 'street beats.' Those kids were very creative for not having any real notes to play.

Hey. I started this thread, and I still hate rap. Awesome. However, I know now that what I hate in rap and the rap culture isn't specific to rap. It's everywhere. I hate everything.

I like old school rap. The new rap today is way produced and it talks about fame,wealth, and power. I and most people can't relate to that.

Yeah, that's what i'm talking about. :thumbsup:

I've been thinking about a reply for a few minutes. Nothing I have to say is racial, so don't even start with that crap. Any genre of music where having served time for violent or drug related crime is seen as a badge of honor just kind of makes me sick. And those of you who like the thumpin' bass; could ya at least close your damned car windows? Why in the world would people in South Florida choose to drive around with the windows down? I know why, to irritate the hell out of people who don't like the crapalicious, thugtastic "music" you choose to listen to. I'm done. If I say too much more I'm going to piss too many people off. So, Yo Yo Yo to ya.

Why is it that the mods of this board will shut you down for thinking about posting off-topic or or in a manner that doesn't stimulate intelligent discussion but have allowed this thread to continue for so long. I see it died down and was brought up a little while ago but it still accomplishes nothing.

Garbage like the post above and so many before it remind me only of what happens when opinions go unchecked and are allowed to degenerate into ignorance.

i agree with some of you, but i only hate the attitude and word usage that goes along with rap. smack my bitches and smoke a blunt, i dont think thats creating something. the beats and music is another thing, i like the groups that can take an old song and modernize and add a little beat to it. :thumbsup: , i also think any creativity is good for everyone that doesnt mean you have to like it, and you definitely have a right to your opinion, dont knock till you try it.

i am definitaly not a fan, sure some rap / hip hop has it's moments, but the vast majority of it just plain shits me .....
i love how dylan moran put it ....

"the old blues guys sang songs about what they didn't have .... "I ain't got nothing and they've taken that away ... " but the rap stars of today talk about what they do have " i got bitches in my limmo's and its running on bitch juce!"

it just doesn't do anything for me, i have a massive collection of music, i can appreciate a good song, but most rap just dosn't reach me .... not at all! none of the mainstream stuff has anything to do with reality, there are guys i give props to (pharall and snoop) simply because they have got real tallent and a few times i have noticed snoop taking the piss out of much of what he has helped to create, just watch some of his clips .... he throws in every hip hop cleche it's a good laugh.

so .... i don't diss their brains but i just don't dig their music .... give me turbonegro anyday!

Be careful that when you judge rap, you don't generalize. Because there is alot of AWFUL rap, but don't let it speak for all of rap. Compare it to some of mainstream rock, for example. You have greats like Clapton, Dylan, Eagles, Boston, yadda yadda. You also have modern artists who are god awful. [Insert overly long generic emo band name here].

The same goes for rap. Hell, good rappers will even knock on the bad rappers to give them shit about how much they suck. Just because it is mainstream, doesnt mean the rapper should be an icon for true rap talent. Eminem is mainstream, but because he busted his balls, spinning raps about stuff that means more than money, cars and clothes. Some guys get some pretty heavy emotional content and meaning into thier lyrics. Some have technical talent, and can rap faster than you can think. Some freestyle rapping is quick thinking on thier feet, making it like improv jazz.

So dont knock a genre before you give it the chance. Don't let the negative aspects speak for the whole, even though they may be more glaring than the positive since they crap is shoved down your throat in the mainstream. Look past, check shit out, investigate.

that's the thing i have given rap a chance and it just doesn't reach me like rock / punk / metal ....... must be a white boy thing! .... so i'm told anyhow!

I used to be the same way, all closed minded and into the same type of stuff you seem to be into, you just have to find that one artsist that bridges the gap and gets you moving in the right direction. I compare it to how I never liked hardcore because of the screaming. But then you find a punk band that only screams occasionally, which then bridges you over towards the more intense hardcore you never would have made the immediate jump to.

I think Talib Kweli was my first bridge, he's intelligent, good beats, nice voice, easy to understand, etc. Another good one is Atmosphere, he's so easy to bridge to from the Punk side of things. Hell he's signed to epitaph (or maybe anti, not sure but it's basically the same thing). See if you can find a gateway, if it works out, you'll be listening to Nas in no time.

What about.. Gnarls Barkley :D
There's something for you in there, I'm sure!

vast gernalization. Im not going to try and tell you that your opinon on music is bad, or even invalid. But u need to turn off the radio (in most cases) to find good rap music.

Try some:
Atmosphere
Murs
Tonedeff
cunninlynguists
Wu Tang Clan
warren g


theres a lot more. It's just u have to search for stuff that you will like, theres so much music in all genres u shouldn't write off an entire genre just because you don't like Some of the stuff u hear on the radio

I read this whole thread. I have no idea why, but maybe because like De La Soul once said: the "Stakes is High" (excerpts below):

("Stakes is High" by De La Soul)

I'm sick of bitches shakin' asses
I'm sick of talkin' about blunts
Sick of Versace glasses
Sick of slang
Sick of half-ass awards shows
Sick of name brand clothes
Sick of R&B bitches over bullshit tracks
Cocaine and crack
Which brings sickness to blacks
Sick of swoll' head rappers
With their sicker-than raps
Clappers and gats
Makin' the whole sick world collapse
The facts are gettin' sick
Even sicker perhaps
Stickabush to make a bundle to escape this synapse…

Yo, it's about love for cars, love for funds
Loving to love mad sex, loving to love guns
Love for opposite, love for fame and wealth
Love for the fact of no longer loving yourself, kid
We living in them days of the man-made ways
Where every aspect is vivid
these brothers no longer talk shit
Hey yo, these niggas live it
'Bout to give it to you 24/7 on the microphone
Plug One translating the zone
No offense to a player, but yo, I don't play
And if you take offense, fuck it, got to be that way
J.D. Dove, show your love, what you got to say?

I say G's are making figures at a high regard
And niggas dying for it nowadays ain't odd
Investing in fantasies and not God
Welcome to reality, see times is hard
People try to snatch the credit, but can't claim the card
Showing out in videos, saying they cold stars
See, shit like that will make your mama cry
Better watch the way you spend it
'Cause the stakes is high…

Yo, people go through pain and still don't gain
Positive contact just like my main man
Who got others cleaning up his physical influence
His mind got congested
He got the nine and blew it
Neighborhoods are now hoods cause nobody's neighbors
Just animals surviving with that animal behavior
Under I who be rhyming from dark to light sky
Experiments when needles and skin connect
No wonder where we live is called the projects
When them stakes is high you damn sure try to do
Anything to get the piece of the pie
Electrify
Even die for the cash
But at last I be out even though you wantin' more
This issue is closed like an elevator door
But soon re-opened once we get to the next floor…

Some Eminem makes me laugh. He's to serious now, but his eraly stuff seemed like a parody of rap. That was the only rap I ever got into.

Oh wait that's not true. I really dig that Gorillaz/De La Soul song Feel Good Inc. too.

i can't beleive u said his new stuff is too serious, his last album was horrible minus like 3 songs, it was all joking around bullshit stuff


i want old eminem back, back to the days of Marshal Mathers LP

This hate thread is still going on? Can't the OP agree to not judge rap as a whole and take back his opinions about rap being all about expensive and ridiculous things?
The other poster are demonstrating that the music isn't all about retarded stuff, yet he still won't come out and admit he's wrong.
Whatever. If rap isn't for you then it's just not, but god damn, let it go. let others enjoy it.

Six words: BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKIN EVERYWHERE!

That's why people think rap is dumb.

That and the "Laffy taffy" song.

There's some good rap, but i think aside from the little bit that's sooo bad that you can't get it out of your head, the vast majority of it is completely forgettable. It's just like every other genre of music, or art in general; most of representations of it are formulaic and overly indulgent.

Uhh. I started it, but I'm not keeping it going. I don't care anymore.

Here's the last thing I said before this:

"Hey. I started this thread, and I still hate rap. Awesome. However, I know now that what I hate in rap and the rap culture isn't specific to rap. It's everywhere. I hate everything."

That's probably the best you're going to get out of me.

And by all means, enjoy it.

Ok, nevermind, I'll just take back everything I said in my first couple of posts. I'm sure it was idiotic. I'd rather not go back and read it, for fear of feeling embarassed for myself.

I realize that it doesn't make sense to lump things into groups and pass judgement on them, but our brains love to try, and I just don't care enough to try and stop it, so I'll continue hating rap, but I realize how stupid it is to do so, and I'll shut up about it.

I used to think rap was just a bunch of garbage. When I was studying music in university, I had to take a course on popular music, and rap was one of the genres we learned about. I must say that I have learned to appreciate where it has come from. The fact is that many rap artists' lyrics speak of true hardships in their lives. After learning so much about it I grew to appreciate it because I now understand where it comes from.
You say that you don't like how they don't play real instruments. The point of rap is not to show off their talents on instruments but to speak about hardships.
Unfortunately, many people confuse rap today with hip-hop. The two styles are actually different.
I would recommend doing some research on rap. Just because you may not like the style doesn't mean they aren't talented.