The I hate rap post
 

This is not an attack on people who like rap. I just have to get this off my chest.

I can't stand rap music. All of it, and I know alot of it. Underground, aboveground. I hate it all. Several people whip up electronic beats using samples and various devices, and then rappers come in with some nonsense lyrics and just rap over it. Nothing is being said or created. It's just garbage. I hate the roots. The play instruments and are proud of that fact. They talk about how they are organic. Avril Lavigne has a band that plays instruments too. Then there is so much hype surrounding rap. Words like greatest and incredible are used to describe rap all the time. I don't think I've ever called anything I listen too incredible, but it is certainly better than rap. Rappers are obsessed with image, themselves, fashion, slang. It just sucks. I'm just getting started. I have some great rants about rap. Wait until I'm thinking more clearly.

My friend makes beats and everyone is constantly saying how great they sound and how incredible he is at making beats, but then so is his brother. What are the chances of a sophmore and a senior in highschool in the same family with no musical training having such prodigious beat making talent. 100%, because it takes no talent at all to make them. I can pick apart that crap in a minute. It might sound like I'm jealous, and I am, but I don't care.

Name one rap song with no extraineous lyrics that has a single well constructed idea. Not a theme with a bunch of random statements about the theme.

I used to hate rap untill I got my subs installed in my car, best stuff if you like the boom!:D

Rap doesnt have to prove anything to you. You dont like, and its not for you.

Tribe Called Quest.
Mos Def.
Common.
GangStar.
The Roots.


Not all rap has to do with P. Diddy.

Believe me. I'm familiar with most rap. I've seen the roots, J 5, Black Eyed Peas, Dialated Peoples, and others that you probably haven't heard of. I have something against all of them. Outkast is really the only group I like.

Also not a slam against anyone who likes rap/hip-hop, but 99% of it I personally can't stand.

Yeah, it's too general to say all rap's bad. I'm a fan of the Beastie Boys, Mos Def, Outkast, and the Roots, even though 95% of my CDs are rock.

I think rap/hip hop is a great medium, unfortunately every single popular act today abuses it.

Check out Massive Attack - Blue Lines for some great downbeat rhymes.

It has the potenial to be something special. When rappers/hip hop artists start coming up with original ideas, writing their own beats, and giving some meaning to their lyrics rap will improve.

Right now every songs is about non-passionate sex, selling drugs, shooting/getting shot.

Just my 2 cents anyway

See, I don't think it's all bad music, but I hate it all with the exception of outkast. I went to the roots, and I enjoyed it, but I hate how everyone likes it, and blows them out of proportion like they are gods, and how everyone acts like they are so into it, and all the popular kids from the school are there. The Roots think they are so great because they play instruments, and other rap groups don't. They constantly call attention to the fact that they do, and like all rappers black thought talks about himself the whole time, and hardly any of what he says has meaning.

Then I go see Darkest Hour, and they just rock so hard, and are so talented, and don't call attention to themselves at all, but rather what they have to say. No ego you know. All there songs are about meaningful stuff, but noone is there, noone likes them, and I'm sure I'll never hear them refered to as incredible.

Then there is dredg. The best band ever.

I only listen to the best like Eminem, Dr. Dre, Obie Trice and 50 Cent/G-Unit.

I <3 Dredg.

Anyway, concerning rap, I like mostly old-school rap, back when it wasnt about all your "bitches and hos" and the rims on your escalade and whatever the fuck the suckass mainstream rappers these days sing about. Public Enemy, N.W.A., and others, they weren't about trying to get people to buy their albums, they actually had something to say. Public Enemy actually carried a political and social message (and still do). N.W.A., they were like the blues artists of old, their songs told stories about the life the artists led, and that's what rap was born out of. Unfortunately 99% of what's popular now is shit. Among the popular stuff today I appreciate:

-The Roots. No, I don't worship them as gods or anything, but I think that they've got talent and much more substance than other rappers.

-The Streets. More storytelling rap... but from a white British guy. The Streets is pure fun to listen to, basically.

-Snoop Dogg. His lyrics are more "stereotypical-rap" but his delivery and his rhyming are great. Just really fun to listen to.

-Wu-Tang. Tremendously talented lyrically and they don't sing about stupid shit. Very good.

-k-os. Relatively underground rapper in the same vein as the Roots (sort of) but he's solo, not in a group. Outstanding lyrics.

-Prefuse 73. Mostly techno, actually but the rap cuts inserted are outstanding and the beats Prefuse engineers are incredible.

-mc chris. www.mcchris.com for those of you who don't know him. hilarious stuff and incredible (though bizarre) delivery.

Youre reasons for not liking rap show you as being somewhat ignorant. Statements like are ignorant. If you can't see the difference between Avril Lavigne and The Roots, then your post is meaningless and without merit.

I can't stand country, but that doesn't mean country artists have no talent.

I hate it, but it gets the ladies dancing *sigh*. Why can't everyone dance to industrial?

One, FIFTY CENT?!?!?! He is an ex drug dealer who is popular for being shot many a time... You can't understand him. Thats not music, he wants to get laid and earn money.

Two, Obie Trice... I'll just shake my head :lol:

Not any good rap is associated with P. Diddy.

Actually I think KRS1 did something with him.

Anyway, I neevr said the roots weren't talented. I only said that they are proud of the fact that there music is "organic" rather than "electric" like most rap. Is that really something to be proud of. I mean music has only been played on instruments for like uh thousands of years, and I didn't compare their talent or sound to avril, only the fact that they both play instruments, and one is obsessed with themselves because it makes them different.

*edited* I'll put something constructive here after I think about it.

lyrics to aesop rock - daylight
lyrics to blackalicious - alphabet aerobics
i have yet to meet someone who did not absolutely love RJD2. download "ghostwriter"

I no longer say that any music sucks. I prefer to say that I don't like it. Some see it as a manner of semantics, but I find it better to just like what I like and not worry about anything else.

Re: The I hate rap post
 

I agree with the recommendation of "Daylight" by Aesop Rock, and have two more to recommend. This is coming from someone who has a strong bias against rap: these songs are excellent and fit the quoted criterion.

Atmosphere - Always Coming Back Home to You
Aesop Rock - No Regrets

"No Regrets" is easily my favorite rap song, period.

I listen to rap....... Only because i think its hilarious.

So you hate things because everyone else likes it?? I agree. I hate sex, only cause everyone else likes it.

Why do you care what others like and what they don't? If I like something, I don't care who else likes it. And I'm definetly not gonna stop liking something because all the "popular kids" like it. That is just retarded. "I'm so cool that I can't like anything that the cool kids like."

Well you are going to have to start to hate them now, because a lot of people like outkast especially with these two new albums. And if you go to an outkast show, I gaurantee that all the popular kids from all your local schools are going to be there.

No, you just don't understand or can't relate.

Meaningful stuff to you maybe. And if all the "popular kids" from school WERE there, or if they became some huge record selling band, you would bitch about that. Make up your mind.

"rap" is just short for "crap"!
HAW HAW HAW!

sorry.

if you don't like rap, so be it. i disagree pretty much on all points about rappers spitting nonsensical lyrics and the simplicity involved in making beats. sure, some rappers say some pretty stupid stuff and some beats are nothing more than casio crap. but if you looked hard enough, and really, it isn't that hard to find, you'll find lots of really great rap with good lyrics and complex beats.

and a lot of other people echoing the main post are referring to the rap they hear on the radio, which, i agree, can be garbage. but we all know the radio doesn't exactly emphasis the best of the respective genres. listen to any of the mainstream rock radio stations and you'll notice the same thing.

Re: The I hate rap post
 

I my self don't like rap all the much, but there are a few I like, mostly because I thin they are just funny as hell. ICP. While they are VERY offensive in how they put out there message, when you get past the songs about killing rednecks and fucking dead people, do make a pretty good damn point with there music.
On a compleatly different style of rap, is Saul Williams. he writes some of the most intelligent lyrics I have ever heard out of any style. The man just blows me away. And he does it with rap.

this is not directed at anyone in this thread
but i find it amusing that a lot of people that say "rap sucks, its boring simple drumbeats with inane shouting over it" listen to stuff like ramones-style punk

i never said i hated things because lots of people like them or because popular kids like them, i like system of a down, i like outkast, and i never said beats were simple, its easy to take things out of context

for instance

My problem with most rap isn't the inane shouting, so much as what the inane shouting is about. Master P comes to mind. His CD has about 40 drive bys and such, but "Only God Can Judge Me". Jackass. Are you Christian, or a thug? That is where most rappers lose me.

If you don't like it, you don't like it! Why do you have to go around calling it garbage? Lots of people call "Stairway to Heaven" the greatest song ever. Do you have to go and start a debate with each one? Most of the lyrics to that song are arguably nonsensical.

Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" is a good song with a single "well-constructed" idea. I don't know if you realize it, most songs with lyrics are mostly what you call " bunch of random statements about the theme." The only songs I can think of off the top of my head that don't jump around in their lyrics are ballads like Marty Robbin's El Paso.

Well alot of songs are a description of something, and all the lines work to describe, or they all work to prove a point, but most rap is just like a stew of random shit that pertains to a theme, but the lines don't really have anything to do with eachother other than the fact that they are about the theme, like there is no harmony, or synergy. One exception I can think of is changes by tupac.

People talk about what they like and don't like. It's natural.

i'm not sure what makes the lyrics for 2pac's "changes" unique. well, i mean, it' a great song, great message too (btw, changes is essentially i wonder if heaven got a ghetto with a different beat, i think), but there a lot of other rap songs that aren't stews of random shit that pertain to a theme. outside of outkast and outside of changes.

and as for the guy who used master p as an example, if all rap were like master p, i would back you up 100%. thankfully it isn't, though i don't really like ICP at all. i'll go with you on the Saul Williams though, he's cool.

well changes is kind of like a state of the union, except about you know, and most of the lines serve a purpose, they aren't just there to rhyme or sound cool, they have meaning, every line works to describe the state of things

now take that aesop rock song, you can't possibly tell me that every line means something, i mean maybe i just dont know how stupid i am, but seriously why are some of those lines in there, what do they mean

also, like many many many non rap songs do not contain the word "i", but i think that a large percent, im talking like 85%, i could be wrong, contain the word "i", refering to the rapper

someone can back me up or shoot me down for this, but rap has both a very large competitive background and also a large storytelling background, which goes back to the whole griots and stuff. hence the usage of "i" in braggadacio songs and in personal stories and the likes. i mean, whether or not you like it, cuz rap is definitely arrogant to an extent, is up to you and i can see why you wouldn't. but great storytelling can't be denied.

i know you've alreay cited outkast so you must be familiar with their catalogue, but if you haven't already, listen to "art of storytelling, part 1", especially andre's verse.

i agree with you on the aes rock tip, the man makes decent songs but you cant decipher what he's saying half the time. "no regrets" by aes rock is much clearer and a very good song too.

here's a song from an artist you may or not be familiar with. his name is j-live and just check out the lyrics to his song "one for the griot"

if you don't dig that, i've got more great lyrics for you to check out. and there was a thread made awhile back about rap mixtapes for people who don't like rap. check out some of the suggsetions, they're really good

i look at aesop rock as the bob dylan of this generation..
he really is an amazing poet

I can't stand most rap - but then again I am getting a bit old. I'm a 80's kid. I think I'll go and listern to some proper music by great artists like Wham, Bros, Milli Vanilli,Culture Club. Actually thinking about it rap is not as bad a I first thought !

noahfor:

Ever heard of Brother Ali? Listen to his album - Shadows on the Sun - and get back to me about lyrics meaning nothing.

His album contains no non-passionate sex (in fact he passes on it), while there is some violence (2 fist fights, one he started against a guy who was beating his child and wife, and the other he didn't start) and one drive-by (which he was not involved in), and no drug use.

Also try The Lifesavas - Spirit in Stone.

You rap haters always say the same thing. Why don't you try looking under the radar? J5, The Roots, Dilated Peoples, Common, Taleb Kweli, Mos Def and the like are only the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of underground acts that I don't like, that doesn't mean they suck.

Or have you ever thought that maybe *gasp* rap isn't for you? I don't like country, polka, emo music, and death metal or whatever it's called, that doesn't mean every artist in those genres sucks.

i said ive seen j5, the roots, kweli, and dialated peoples

and yea rap isnt for me, thats why its the i hate rap post, not the rap sucks post

Well obviously some rappers have actual talent. As you said in your post, you hate it underground and aboveground.

So far all i see are generalizations, and your dislike of certain groups because they're popular.

Listen to the 2 albums in my first post, and then form an opinion about rap.

Perhapps I should revise my statment then. How about "That is where most gangster rappers lose me", as it's the gangster rap that is what drove me away from listening to rapp in the first place. Well, that and one of my friends turned me onto heavy metal back in the day.

i never said i hated them for being popular, i said i hated that they were popular, and i have heard countless hours of all kinds of rap, so i dont need to be exposed to anymore of it, i have access to almost all of the artists cited in this post right now at my girlfriends house

Wow, you must have listened to every hip hop track ever made to come to that opinion. Thats great.

some meaningful lyrics...

SONG TITLE: Crack Pipes
ALBUM: Sage Francis - Personal Journals
WRITTEN BY: Sage Francis
PRODUCED BY: Sixtoo

I'd give a 21 gun shot salute...
With the toy rifle that you bought me, but it won't shoot.

And all is well, because there's been one too many shots.
The sterile robots want to talk to me about detox.

Stop the presses. There's been an update via 1:30 AM phone call.
When an only half-informative source talks discretely...

Meet me...at the family room on the side of the intensive care unit.
Immediately...I'll carry a tune, but the siren's so loud I can't hear my music.
Keep free...of negative thoughts. Everything'll be fine we all assumed.
That is would go back to the way things were. That it would go back to normal soon.

I saw the moon in a way that I'd never seen it before when I looked up that night,
Into the sky...wondering why...looking for answers. Guess I ain't asked right.
I'm guessing most of y'all out there know exactly what that's like.
What that's like. Tell me...what's that like?

It's like a whirlwind of emotions that occurs when moms and dads fight.
It's like when a girl grins and a motion of hers that holds your arm and grabs tight.
Hurl him into the ocean. One of those cold sweat, heat flash types.
But extreme fluctuations and temperature changes have been known to crack pipes...
Crack pipes...
crack pipes.

Meet me...halfway and I'll go that extra length just to help your strength.
Meet me at the AA meeting, needing to take more than 12 steps.
Bring me to your hiding place so I can face your vice grip.
I'll chisel every single monkey off your back with this ice pick.
Come meet up with me on the sidelines when the game is over just to say hello.
Then afterwards...backstage...to let me know that you enjoyed the show.
Then go to Grandma's house for Sunday dinner. Sit at the head of the table.
Take away the fatal flaw you made the day before I seen you bleed.

Meet me...on Christmas Eve. We can fight but make up before you leave.
Make visits with the rest of those who rest in pieces of my dreams.

Meet me at the fork in the road where the lost souls get indecisive.
Meet me at the crossroads so I can have someone to walk into the light with.

A rap song with a single, well constructed idea?

"Lose Yourself" by Eminem.
"Stan" by Eminem.

Two fantastic songs that illustrate a very specific story. "Lose Yourself" is about what it's like to perform on stage for the first time. "Stan" is about an obsessed fan. Both are extremely well written, well conceived, and well produced.

I forgot that I really like some stuff on the newest common album.

I don't really care one way or another about rap... I've heard one or two songs by rappers that I thought were pretty good, but it's not something I'd choose to listen to intentionally.

I think most rap gets ruined by all the bullshit hype that goes around it...but then that may be the case with all popular genres...either way, I never could figure out why rap videos always seem to have lots of gold jewelry, black broads in bikinis shaking their asses and acting as if they'll suck anyone's cock, and then the "band" members pointing various fingers at the camera. I mean, if you want to say something, say something. None of this crap means anything.

So..I shouldn't say this but...
*R*etards *A*ttempting *P*oetry.

What the hell happened to the beasite boys?!?!

^ people got over the fact that they were white and realized they sucked

most of the complaints about rap in this thread are only applicable to popular rap
popular anything sucks... if you dont like rap, you dont like rap, its understandable
but if you think you would like rap if it didnt have x or y, then dig deeper...

beastie boys are coming out with a new album, to the 5 boroughs, i think.

and i can't think of a legitimate reason why popular rap videos these days are the way they are.

This physically pained me to read.

The only rap I like= Beastie Boys, KRS-1, RUN DMC, Grandmaster Flash, and Blackalicious.

it sells

although you said legitimate

I only like Westside Connection ,or maybe new or old NWA, ya the true gangster shit, not these punks of today.

The problem is many of the songs just can't be played. Hell, some of the best songs ever done in rap couldn't even possibly be played on MTV or radio because of the censors. Since the Janet Jackson incident it's damn near impossible for anything to get by those tight-asses.

What does that leave? A generic filler that has the same lyrics but a different beat.

For example, I've listened to both of D12's cd's tonight. Out of 30 songs, only one could be played on TV or radio without heavy editing, and that's "My Band". "American Psycho" "Pistol Pistol" "Revelation" "Git Up" "40 Oz." "American Psycho II" If any of those were to become singles they would be edited so far they might as well just cut out all of the lyrics and just play the beat. As a result you get either a joke track, or a cookie cutter copy of an edited song.

I hate rap!

I have very little tolerance for rap. The only positive thing it has done for me is reclassify opera and country music as actual genres. Besides, most of us learn to rhyme in elementary school. Why is that such an amazing concept? If I want to listen to something that rhymes, I will go to a poetry reading.

yea, thats something i hate about it too, the hype around rhyming, since when is rhyming so cool and difficult, its rhyming

Claiming all rap is shit is like hearing your buddy cleatus play his pocket violin and throwing every great peice of classical music out the window from the last two centuries. You seem to think its okay to dismiss album recommendations as worthless because they are all the same? then why the hell would you make this post if you refuse to have a disscussion about the merits of hip hop as medium. So far in this post you seem to be completely closed minded to other peoples opinions and only refer to other posts that reinforce your ideas. If you are willing to have an intelligent nad respectfull disscusion, let me know and I have a number of artists and lyrics I would enjoy speaking to you about.

Yikes!
In defense of myself, my very little tolerance does exclude several rap artists that I find interesting.
Eminem is humorus. Run DMC and Public Enemy are classics. Besides those artists I find the genre very unexciting.

All punk music has hard to understand vocals and loud, grating guitars.
All classical music is just a bunch of violins and flutes.
All jazz has stupid saxophone melodies.
All country songs are about drinking, your lady leaving, your truck rolling down a hill or your dog dying.
All heavy metal is nothing more than thrashing drums and guitars and people screaming.
All pop music is bubbly and pointless except to 13 year olds.
All techno sounds so fake and anybody can do it on their computer.
All rap is crap and is about bitches, guns, rims, and ice.

Blah blah blah blah blah none of it is true and claiming to 'know rap' because you've heard of a few mainstream groups does nothing to further your cause or make you anymore credible. To be perfectly honest, this thread is pointless hatred spurned by negative generalizations and is mostly worthless.

This is not an attackon the people in this thread. I just have to get this off my chest. Peace.

I never said all rap was shit, just that I hate it all. There is a difference. I do generalize, because I hate rap in general, but then you make assumptions like assuming I think I know rap because I have heard a few mainstream rap groups. We're not perfect. All hatred is pointless, anyway. If I were designing humans I'd probably leave it out, but whoever designed me didn't, and here I am ranting about how much I hate rap. All rap is rap, and I hate rap. I have no cause by the way. I'm not trying to persuade anyone not to like it. I've said it many times in this thread: there are many rap acts that I like, but in general I hate it. I'm not saying it's bad. Alot of it is probably good, but I hate it for reasons other than the quality of the sound.

If all hatred is pointless, then would your 'hating' rap be a pointless opionion? If it were, then why are we still talking about it?

I dislike most rap, but there are a few exceptions. Same with everyone. Noone likes everything, and if there are people that exist that like everything, they should be shipped to Taiwan.

Yea, my hating rap is pointless. However, talking about it serves a point. It releases the steam. You know.

Can we get a lock on this bullshit post?

Listen to underground.

The last time we had a thread about rap and why it's good or bad the same thing happened. . . I know I'm the one who started the thread. But, I'll post my opinion anyway. 'Gangsta' rap as it is called is pretty stupid, in my opinion. I could honestly care less about some guy talking fast about his 'bling bling' and his 'ho's' and his cars, money, yaya etc. 'Gangsta' rap, mainstream rap whatever you wanna call it, in my opinion it's trash. Now don't get me wrong, last time ppl misinterpreted, I am not saying all rap is stupid, just the mainstream garbage that I hear. As far as the other rap goes, I myself am not interested in it, but to each his own, it's not my thing, though. Rap dosen't really appeal to me.

Until we meet again. . .

The mainstream of almost every genre is garbage, so why single out rap?

very true!

It's hard to really have an appreciation for it unless you actually try it yourself. It takes a lot more than being able to rhyme in order to be a good MC. Just because we know how to write doesn't mean that we are any good at it. In part, that's why it's "amazing" to hear a person that can really flow. We can all rhyme, but there's only so many people that can do it off the top of their head, make sense, and make you go "damn!."

I lot of mainstream rap is made to make money, not necessarily to show off the lyrical skills of the rappers/artists. Accordingly, the lyrics suffer, making people assume that all you have to do to be able to rap is to make sentences rhyme. With practice, anybody can take a pre-written rhyme and spit it out, but that doesn't mean they are going to do it well. It's not just about getting the lyrics out, there's also delivery, tone and style. Also, many talented MCs go unheard, partly because record companies look for artists that can sell.

You should download a few freestlye battles to see for yourself the things MCs can do.

Re: The I hate rap post
 

Well, from the sounds of this, sounds as you would have to encapsulate Techno into this hatred. I am not a huge fan of Tech but, I can tolerate it. However, Rap, I dislike it, nor do I desire to venture into anything outside of the "Popular" cause the face that the radio shows is not appealing. Does that make me arogant? Maybe, but then I really don't care. Take that as you will.

This is not pointed to anyone here, but I think my dislike with rap is in the listeners more than the music. The "G's" and "Buster" types I don't have too much tolerance for and that most likely infulences my opinion about the music more than anything. Growing up inner-city could have that effect on anyone, or the complete opposite. I just don't like how they carry / present themselves to the world. That being said, to clarify, I'm talking about the "I'm packing / short-tempered / the type that if you say or do the wrong thing to me you're gonna get shot without warning / debate" I don't know of many other "types" that have that ominous presentation of themselves.

I'm not saying that everyone that listens to rap has this way of presenting themselves, but with my exposure, it appears to be moreso than not.

However, as far as a thread goes, I'd have to agree w/ most here, this thread was pointless to have been started if you don't either want to participate and defend your so publicly made oppinion or be open to the suggestions that you oppinion is destined to cause.

Just my .02

Disclamer: I do and did not intend to come off as a flamer...if so I appologize, just needed to explain myself as clearly as I know how to prevent ambiguity.

Your favorite band sucks.

I've noticed lately that the mainstream rap can be compared to the boy bands of several years ago. Mainstream rap dominates TRL and 12 year old girls love it. So I hope it goes away. That's being said, listen to more Eminem, Aesop Rock, Blackalicious...don't just listen to what MTV tells you to.

??

this seem to contradict each other. have you heard eminem lately? he's become the mainstream act that he has criticized for so long.

Sure, he's pretty mainstream, but his solo albums are amazing. And that song you've heard lately is done with D12. It sucks, but it's not his solo work.

Well, my brother loves rap and up to a certain time so did I. Thus, this invalidates your premise. It simply comes down to this, I understand that people enjoy rap. I don't.
Good old 80s- and some 90s rap is unique IMO. I can't say that all rap is shit. It just isn't for me. Besides, I have musical tastes that would make the average rap listener's hair fall out in protest. Like Skinny Puppy or some Pigface. Then there's my metal bands that pretty much don't have any musical talent. So, to each his own.

AGREED!

Then don't read it.

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to agree with Xepidemic and Notminus. This is getting pointless. Maybe someone should start an "I hate rock" thread. Of course, that will just degenerate into this thread.
Now if we had discussed the merits (postives and minuses) of rap or hip hop, it would be a different story.

Yea, I started this thread, and I'm sick of it. It's brought nothing but pain. I'm a moron. My opinons are ill formed, and not fit to be expressed.

Then do not post it. I read disscussion forums beacuse I want to learn something new, see a new perspective or get insight from someone else. It is completely unacceptable to post in a disscussion forum and then simply ignore and dismiss posters who have taken the time to read what you have written and responded back to you. It shows no respect to the people who's opinons you have asked for.

You ever listen to Twiztid?

before making statements like this, read posts like the one directly above yours.

In the quote that you quoted me, I was actually referring to the ability to rap/rhyme. I'm not trying to argue that people should like rap, rather what I meant to point out that being able to rhyme/rap does take skill. I understand that people have different musical preferences, and accordingly not everyone is going to like the same thing.

Oops.
Sorry, for the misunderstanding.
I do understand that it does take some type of skill to rap/rhyme. But to be honest, I don't understand why it is considered much of a skill when compared to learning an instrument. Or compared to artists that write all parts of their music (guitar, base, drums, etc).

I doubt that you are a moron. I think your opinion (as well as mine) are coming across badly. I believe that this thread needed to change from an "i hate this" post to more of a debate between the merits of rap and the artists. As pointed out by several other members.

Incidentally, I usually don't post in a thread about hating something. I decided to go against my beliefs related to this and posted anyway. Thus, ignoring the little voice in my head that said this was a bad idea. Hopefully, we can keep this thread a decent one.
Also, I apologize if any of my posts offended anyone.

I have reaffirmed my faith in rap upon hearing the new Beastie Boys single.

Hellz yea!

Have you heard a true hip hop artist freestyle? Trust me, it takes fucking talent. Period. When you see someone belt out lyrics faster than most normal people can construct a sentence over a beat they havnt heard and make it sound like they were written and memorized its pretty fucking amazing. I think that measures up with the talent it takes to play an instrument.

Just like every genre, hip-hop has its good stuff. Unfortunately, unless you dig a little deeper all you see are P-diddy and 50 cent and friends on MTV. Those guys are like the N-Sync of rap.

And to the starter of this thread: Go try and make your own beats. Load up some music program like Reason or Pro Tools and see how well you do. Trust me... its not nearly as easy as you think. Of course after trying, you might have a new appreciation for the beats in alot of hip-hop.. could shatter your worldview.. so mabye dont try it.

Just add Blackstar, Soul Position, Aesop Rock and then you're good.

im starting to hate modern rock...i dont think i can name a good original band that started after 1998...

BlackStar = one of top5 greatest hip hop albums ever released.
Good call on Soul Position. Hot beats and decent rhymes.

add:
7L and Esoteric

Immortal Technique (if you want to hear the most chilling song of all time, listen to "dance with the devil". PM me after you listen to it and give me your thoughts on the story-telling abilities of the guy)

Big L

Talib Kweli

Nas

Brother Ali

ah yes hip hop....even though this thread seems pretty much played out...i got interested in hip hop through bomb squad-type production, but what really did it for me from the start was eric b and rakim and dj premier.

from my viewpoint, the finest single hip hop album to date is dr octagon. the mid-point in the transition from turntablist to pre=fabricated beats as the underpinning for--in this case--- delirious rhyming.

i still listen to some hip hop, but frankly what i focussed on early was the turntablists--i used to have arguments with friends in which i would try to convince them that some turntablists were like contemporary classical composers who were working over beats that tended to disguise how complex the sounds generated were. the results: danger mouse made jay-z almost interesting for me; x-ecutioners remain amazing; i would love to see the beat junkies if they are still around; most commercial hip hop seems tiresome----i think dj shadow summed up the problem with west-coast hip hop quite nicely on entroducing: "why hip hop sucks in 96"...the problem remains....some outkast singles float around in my brain for days after i hear them, but i cannot determine if that is a good thing or not.

as for folk who hate the genre--the beat structures are quite simple--but often the drop are less so (the quality of the drop, for example)--the straight beats trick people into thinking that everything is the same--which is wrong---if you want to check out lyrical possibilities, i would suggest rakim's "in the ghetto" off let the rhythm hit em. wastes stuff like 2-pac.

and try to freestyle. i play what i guess you would call experimental stuff--not particularly beat oriented--the group has some very sophisticated players from a variety of genres in it--it is beyond fun when someone freestyles with us---seriously, it is an amazing thing to be around, and a skill that requires a huge amount of work. i do sometimes wish that hip hop would get away from reliance on rhymes, however--there is nearly a century of text/poetry that has managed it.

on the other hand, my brother is a bluegrass musician. i understand the skill required to play that stuff, but would rather listen to machinery run than to bluegrass. strange thing is that i can see how that music functions, but my brother and most of his comrades cannot see how what i do operates. sometimes you have to stretch your head, to explore music that you do not a priori like, just to understand other ways of thinking --- music is a form of thinking, not just in the way the words operate, but also (often more) in the way the sonic space is orgainized.

it is worth the effort to check out by hip hop by listening carefully to it, and not stand outside making clucking noises, saying this sucks this sucks.......of course after the experiments are carried out, you can still make clucking noises and say this sucks this sucks, but at least you will have pushed away from the comfortable for a little while.

I used to hate rap.

Then I opened my mind to it, and started listening to it.

It's the best thing happening right now, without a doubt. I've been into every kind of music, even country, which most people leave out. Hip-Hop and Rap are by far my favorites.

Try some more before you knock it, and if you still don't like it try some more. Huge amounts of people invest their lives in this art form, it should not be so easily thrown away.

Dismissing a whole genre of music seems pretty narrowminded to me. Although I've read a lot of the naysayers on this thread, very few of them seem to have actually listened to any of it.

I expect more from the TFP than this.

Some argue that rap died once it was recorded onto disc and tape.

See, rap is like jazz: it's really all about mojo. It's about how the MC, DJ, rappers, etc. work together SPONTANIOUSLY to lay good rhymes. Like a jazz group, they have to be constantly communicating their thoughts to each other, signalling whatever mix ups they are planning to throw into their rap, and also be able to adapt to each other. Rap started as completely free form, and was at its best when it was like that. Once rap got recorded, it lost its mojo. What was on record was not impulsive, spontanious, and unique. It might have had some of those qualities when rap was old school, but now even lots of underground rap is having trouble being creative, original, and authentic.

So P.Diddy, stop stealing other people's shit and suck my dick.

I dislike Rap.....simply because every one I've ever been forced....and I mean forced as in riding in a friends car and thats all they listen to...going to clubs etc....to listen to makes me want to murder someone lol. Something about that style of music goes thru my ears and somewhere in my brain and triggers the desire to kill the person making me listen to it.

I understand lots of people love it...I wouldnt say its crap just because its not my taste. Hell I love bagpipe music and a lot of people disagree with me on that one. Heh, its usually the people riding in MY car......yes, there IS a reason I insist on being the one driving.

Hey thats how I feel about punk music / emo / heartcore/ screamo you name it all that shit. But its not all bad so I wouldn't say that I straight up hate all punk.

I also feel that way about all the amazing bands we've got on the radio these days like nickleback and stained so amazin....

I like undeground rap these days, and even my friends who fucking hate rap like the stuff I listen too.

And i also love 80's rock.. 80's screwed up everything besides the actual music.

:D

//edit

BTW right now i'm listening to immortal_technique-the_point_of_no_return-cms

Also check out Jedi Mind Tricks - violent by design - 17 - Genghis Khan Feat. Tragedy Khadafi

If you listen to those a few times and don't like those songs then i'll take you're hatred of a whole genre seriously

You coul'd probobally steal it if you want i think he's on death row and probobally wouldn't care.

i love rap.

Mos Def
Talib Kweli
GangStarr
The Roots
Nas
Jurassic 5
Dilated Peoples
Kanye West
Beastie Boys
Can ox
Aesop Rock
Mr Lif
Outkast
Hierogliphics
Jay Z
Eminem
Canibus
El- P
Blackalicious
Atmosphere
Eyedea & Abilities
The Pharcyde
Wu Tang
Tupac
Cypress Hill
Brother Ali
Benefit
Binary Star

these are some of the artists ive been enjoying over the last couple of years. if anyone knows anything i'd like, let me know. i even like gunit 50 cent, but i understand that rap varies so much and its all different.

Cant say I hate it rap. Just like every other musical genre there are the sellouts and the pretentious jackasses. In fact I would say that the current punk and emo scene has WAY more crap acts then hip-hop and rap ever had.

Some of the bands that take themselves seriously have great lyrics. The bass lines and percussion is often amazing on rap tracks – though often sampled.

My main problem with rap music is that it lacks harmony. The vocals are almost always in complete dissonance with the instrumental. So rap doesn’t sound like music to me. Rap is just a guy talking to some random tune. In music if you take the vocals from one song and try to sing them to a different melody it will sound like crap. In most rap one would not have to worry about this because the vocals were never meant to be in harmony with the melody in the first place.

Not all rap is guilty of this. There are quite a few very well produced and harmonious rap tunes. When you add harmony to a rap song - assuming the lyrics and instrumental is well done – it sounds very good and powerful. One of my favorite tunes “Bombs Over Baghdad” by Outcast is a great example of this.

At first I was shocked that there was only one post that substantially mentioned Eminem, but now I realized that I shouldn't be shocked at all. The rap haters can't mention Eminem as a reason why rap is bad. Sure I may have just opened the gates for the people who want to be spiteful, but his mention only in a positive light thus far says a lot about him and his talent.

Try some Kanye West bro. You'll love it.

I'm not a fan of the most generic re-hashed crap rap, but I loved N.W.A. and Dre's solo stuff in the early 90's. He was a great producer.

"Nuthin' But A G Thang" is probably on the top 100 songs of all time list.

No Kanye West dosnt have any harmony.

They got absolutely great melodies. But the rap just drones over top of it like it would over any other melodies. They produce such great tunes and dont even bother to sing the lyrics so they would mesh with the music.