KWSN

This has been a topic that's bugged me for a long time. People always praise music for having a message, but never act upon that message. This is annoying because sometimes the messages can have such a practical application in the real would that they really shouldn't be disregarded as "just music," and maybe people should take more notice.

The greatest instance I know of this is the Dead Kennedys song In-Sight:

That seems like a song that would be released in the aftermath of Columbine, no? Sounds like a direct detail of that event, doesn't it? WRONG. It was written and recorded well over 10 years before the Columbine school shooting. Maybe if people payed more attention to this song, would that tragedy have occurred? Just food for thought.

Any thoughts? Any other instances anyone can think of? Or am I just insane?

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juanvaldes

It is easier to blame then to act.

Destrox

To me, music is there to LISTEN to, not follow, not indulge, and ffs not to act upon!
Its sound, many sounds put together to sound good.
Thats why i dont care if thier screaming at the top of thier lungs or doing a slow accoustic song, as long as it sounds good.

I really dont see my self changing in any way against these feelings, even by what you said, you are right to a extent.

But its like religion, just a bunch of words that many ppl interpret thier own way and liking.

Oh, and no this song could have done absolutily nothing to have stopped what them kdis did. They were fucked up in the head, a few lyrics wont be changing that, they needed other cures.

Cant be using music as a scapegoat, thats what video games are for. (Note this is also wrong imho)

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KWSN

OK... I'm not saying this thing wouldn't have not happened if people had listened to the lyrics in a song... I'm saying that perhaps SCENARIOS PUT FORTH in music may help people to notice a thing like that before it happens, but people generally take their music in a sort of a "I don't read into it, I like the way it sounds" way, generally.

About the "they were fucked up" thing, I have to disagree there. The fact of the matter is not that they were fucked up by nature (if that were the reason I would have shot up my school in fucking Kindergarten), it's that they didn't get any attention. They were pretty much the "him" in the song... picked on, beat up, etc, because they didn't accept the common social scale. Being "fucked up" as it were doesn't make you shoot up a school. There has to be a trigger.

And for the scapegoat thing, I don't think there's any song that could possibly make anyone do something drastic as that. No song, no video game, no anything. Even if it DID make them want to do something like that, it would be because they had no use for anyone else... didn't everyone just beat them up and hate them anyway? If they got attention, it wouldn't have happened.

I'm not saying that music is what people should live by in every case in the world, I'm just saying that maybe people should step back for a second after listening to a song and think about the message. That's all.

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Your arms are broken!

ghezzo

the only thing music should be is inspiring.

K-Wise

I highly dissagree. There is definitely something else there. What it is exactly I don't know but just because someone is picked on doesn't give them the right or an excuse to go off and kill a bunch of people. Especially a bunch of innocent bi-standers who didn't even know them. I was picked on at school. I was beaten up daily, thrown in trash cans, had my glasses broken, had my pants try to be pulled down and ended up having them rip them, driven to the point of almost tears. On top of all that I live in an abusive home. I didn't go off and shoot anybody though. I got older, better looking, and cooler than all the people that used to make fun of me, most importantly I got over it. I'm sick of people making up excuses for weak minded and weak willed adolescents. A kid kills a dozen students and they feel sorry for him cause he was picked on, and try and blame music & video games & t.v. instead of pointing the finger and blaming themselves instead. It has to do with how they're raised. I will agree though that the possibility of music giving someone ideas isn't completely out of the park. But thats why I've always believed that it is ignorant of people when confronted about such issues with their music, say "IT'S JUST MUSIC!" because if people are taking it seriously and are influenced to do things by it thats when it becomes much more than just music. Jeremy by Pearl Jam is another good song about that sort of topic.

Asta!!

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Chingal0

People are going to interpret songs differently. As with life.

And yea, as K-Wise said, people will kill people, then point the finger which i think is bs. For someone to murder people at a school or wherever, im willing to bet that 99.99999% of the time, their driving force is greater then ONLY having listened to random song by random artist.

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WhatAboutBob

I read somewhere that you are six times more likely to get hit by lightning than to get shot in High School...

...take it for what it's worth.

>> On a personal note, I listened to "Fuck the Police" about 1000 times as a 15-16 year old and I never got into any trouble. All that "the music made me do it" is total bullshit.

KWSN

hm ok... maybe the thread title isn't being too clear.

I am COMPLETELY AGAINST blaming music for events like that. Music can't influence people in that way. That's just not the way it works.

I'm saying maybe the moral of certain songs should be taken into account and applied to real life, like in said song by the Dead Kennedys. Maybe people like the "him" in the song should be payed attention rather than beaten up for no particular reason... it can also apply to other songs but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

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K-Wise

Yeah I got your point. But then you kind of contradicted it a little with the post I quoted from you. That was what I was arguing. I completely agree with you on the first point.

Asta!!

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"I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project

It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys! - Asta!!

KWSN

heh, now that you mention it I did

...my bad

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Your arms are broken!

K-Wise

Happens to the best of us

Asta!!

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"I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project

It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys! - Asta!!

HeadyIncognito

Music is such a broad subject. Very little music actually has a message or a meaning embedded in it's lyrics. But it would be wrong to listen to the music that does have a message and ignore it. You should always know what you listen to, and make an effort to understand what it means.

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Even Hitler had a girlfriend...

IckUber

Very werid. I think that the lyrics in music are important, i try to read along with my favorite artists, so i get more of what they were feeling when they wrote the song i enjoy. Its like solving some kind of puzzle or something.

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WhoaitsZ

I've been saying for weeks on other boards that lyrics can alter you or your mood; as can musical style trigger certain mood swings.

everything we see and hear will affect us in some way.

for a lot of us music is not 'just music'. it is a release or philosophy or even a status symbol (like hardcore hip hop or heavy metal lifestyles).

the thing that makes me frown are all of 'who cares? it sounds good!' types. sure, i listen to what sounds good; unless it alters my mood in a negative way.

everyone feels different and reads into things differently. i listen to 'the fragile' by NIN and i get sad. TOOL's 'undertow' has mostly negative influences on me, also, which is the exact opposite from their 'lateralus" lp that has improved my mood every time i've played it.

also think about this. our past makes us act funny. know how seeing a girl or guy may make you kind of sad? don't you think hearing a song can remind you of this also?

as for the lyrics in particuliar... i think most strong minds can handle it. those who give into odd thoughts and compulsive actions are the ones who worry me when they listen to radical lyrics.

mercury-hg

I think the only truly effective way to teach morals (because "teaching morals through lyrics" is essentially what is proposed here) is through experience. Basing (or simply adjusting) your behaviour because of what someone else wrote doesn't ensure that you'll internalize the reason behind the message. Learning from lyrics is no different from basing your behaviour upon what the Bible says, or what your parents say. If the message is going to have a real effect on you, you must be aware of the message's implications.

Jeremy tells the story of a kid who had a bad home, was picked on in school, and committed suicide. You shouldn't take away the lesson "don't pick on kids or they might end up committing suicide" because that really goes no further than establishing a tenuous cause-effect relationship. Do we need another song saying "don't pick on kids or they might shoot up a school"? I don't think so. People need to empathize with others to understand the effect of their own actions, that way building sets of rules (via songs, the Bible, etc) is unneeded. What happens if a rule hasn't been established yet? Well, I guess there's a good chance you'll fuck up... unless you can stop and think "how will this action effect this person?"

i could probably structure this arguement better, but i'm lazy basically, you haven't learned anything by adding another entry in your book of "things to not do" because that allows the excuse of "i didn't know that thing was bad - it wasn't in my book". hmmm, maybe i could use set theory here... nah, that would be too dorky even for me

WhoaitsZ

if i sounded as if music is much more capable of sculpting our behavoires than other mediums, i didn't really mean to.

but we don't have to realize what we hear to acknowledge it. play something while you sleep and you wake up and have some general knowledge onn what was played.

i listen to about everything. i do not feel very influenced by most music. whne i do i will end it if i must. like when i said the fragile by nin sometimes puts me in a negative mood. sometimes it doesn't. i hoestly think it is a trigger cuz it's release was during one of the times i was on my deathbed.

but if you are the avg joe i would imagine that being bombarded by certain lyrics could indeed change behaviours.

just my opinion