Baraka_Guru

SF, that was very well put. I agree with you.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

Did it just get really cold in here or am I imagining things?

Baraka_Guru

Dude, I know....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Shell

...i don't think you want the heat turned up though

__________________
..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

highthief

Apparently, he almost took the Internet with him!

Jackson dies, almost takes Internet with him - CNN.com

It takes a lot to break the Internet, but everyone searching for stories and updates on MJ just about did it!

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Glory's Sun

my faith in humanity dies a little more each day.

wooÐs

*heads over to the joke thread...*

Derwood

I'm not going to come in and dance on the guy's grave or anything, but I can't say that my life is any different now that he's dead. He's been completely off of my musical radar for about 25 years

Xerxys

RIP MJ.




I'll always enjoy the time we had together

ratbastid

You know, I'm just going to pretend that the last 20 years never happened, Michael Jackson-wise.

When I was in 5th Grade, Thriller came out--and was the first album I ever bought with my own money. I bought it on vinyl, and spent MANY hours listening to it sitting next to the hi-fi wearing my dad's big ol 70's headphones. I wore one white glove around. I took (and you should know, it pains me to admit this) break dancing classes down at the Rec Center. I learned to do the Wave. To Moonwalk. I was working on my Windmill. Out on a big piece of cardboard in my suburban back yard. I was, in short a Fan.

I'm saddened by the man's death, but I'm with Charlatan: I lost the Michael Jackson I loved decades ago, and I'm long since done mourning about that.

ShaniFaye

I still have my original Thriller vinyl

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Shauk

I guess I don't understand why the pedo thing "stuck" even though he was aqquitted of the charges. It just goes to prove that people will make up their mind about someone given the slightest bit of space to engage in personal fantasy.

Nobody stops to figure the accusing family was found to have lied under oath before and that the stories didn't match each time they were told, plus a history of extortionist behavior.

Thats why they threw it out to begin with.

SecretMethod70

Child molestation accusations are difficult to shake off even for normal people. Michael Jackson was undoubtedly a mentally disturbed individual, which just made it even easier to continue to believe the allegations even when he was never shown to be guilty. Personally, there's no way I think he was mentally together enough to evade the law not once, but twice, despite all the circumstantial evidence he was freely willing to admit to. The guy was seriously messed up, but I don't believe he was a child molester. Which, of course, makes his story even more tragic. When you get to be as big as Michael Jackson - literally the most famous entertainer of all time - it attracts a whole lot of terrible people. Combine that with the fact he had absolutely no childhood in which to develop normal interpersonal skills... it's a sad, sad story. And, no, I'm not thinking more highly of him because he recently died. I've been saying these things for years.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

jewels

Thank you for saying that.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

ShaniFaye

I have been saying for years that I honestly believe MJ never grew up, that somewhere his mind stayed somewhere around the age of 12 and he honestly and innocently enjoyed being around children. He had tons of money and people sought to take advantage.

I mean seriously, what self respecting parent would take any kind of payoff if allegations had been true? I know if it had been my child no amount of money would have kept me from refusing it to see the sorry ass of the person rotting in jail.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

SecretMethod70

Exactly.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

ratbastid

He's a tragic figure, no doubt. Between the clear psychological fallout of his early life, and the obvious body dysmorphism that drove him to all the plastic surgery, he didn't just have issues, he had a lifetime subscription.

You know, speaking of people taking advantage of a wealthy but vulnerable man... what kind of plastic surgeon keeps working on somebody who's so obviously sick? That guy needs to lose his license. It's as bad as the "doctors" who kept Anna Nicole's pills coming.

highthief

It's funny, but while Jackson has been castigated in some circles for his "unhealthy" relationship with minors, let's say, in some ways, he's been a very good father. The early dangling incident aside, he's largely kept his kids away from the spotlight that probably screwed him up so much. I wonder with him gone will the children now be prostituted by greedy agents and relatives eager for cash and their 15 minutes?

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

SecretMethod70

Or Michael Jackson's. I caught something on the news about his personal doctor calling 911 and then disappearing. Very strange. Wouldn't be surprised if he was just taking money for whatever prescription MJ wanted. Could be wrong, but it's suspicious.It's true. I saw a recent picture of him with his kids and I couldn't believe how old they have gotten. As much as I'm curious to hear what it was like to have MJ as a father, I hope they are allowed to continue their lives with privacy.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

little_tippler

What a strange figure he was. I pay my respects to his musical talent.

It's sad that he died so young.

I sang 'Beat It' last night at a gig and people really enjoyed it. RIP MJ.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Tully Mars

I saw a report yesterday that showed some law suit from a drug store in Beverly Hills. They were suing MJ for 100K in unpaid prescriptions... 10 months worth. Reportedly all pain killers. Who, what... WTF! 10K a month in diluadid and oxycodone? That's a lot of morphine. Somebody was writing these scripts.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

roachboy

i am starting to find the media saturation coverage of this to be really irritating. this independent of anything it refers to. the front page of the nyt has half it's space taken up with infotainment about jackson's finances. there's a giant photo of sequin-studded gloves. below that, wedged under, an article about the ongoing situation in iran. for example.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Shell

...MJ spanned my generation as well as my daughter's. I asked my daughter if she felt like she had grown up with him and was she sad about MJ's passing...then she reminded me...

...she said, "Mom. You never let me listen to him or watch him because you said he was always grabbing his crotch"...hahaha...i'm such a good mom

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..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

dlish

im glad i;

1) dont have a tv subscription
2) dont listen to the radio except on the way to work
3) havent spoken to my friends this weekend
4) am moving apartments

i've surely not missed the whole MJ fiasco play out in the media. im just sick of people paying tributes to MJ on their facebook status! for fucks sake

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Reese

One thing good has come out of the death of MJ. The problems in Iran have been solved!

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“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

roachboy

estimates are that over 2000 people have been arrested in iran since 12 june for opposing the election farce and no-one seems to know what's happened to them. this article (in french) is from today's le monde:

Vives inquiétudes en Iran sur le sort des victimes de la répression - Proche-Orient - Le Monde.fr

this was the lead story.
idiocy about michael jackson was not.

but this is maybe a separate matter--mj is not responsible for the nitwit decisions made about coverage in the american press.

on the other hand, this piece by germain greer is kinda interesting in that panegyric kinda way:

'
its a bit hyperbolic i think, but still, better than most of the nonsense i've read.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Shauk

curious... why does it aggrivate you so much?

I deal with the same thing on twitter, facebook, myspace, bk, this form, any forum, actually.
I don't seem to be having any temper issues over it though.

tisonlyi

The kind of parent who doesn't want their child raped all over again in a witness stand in front of the world for days or weeks.

Just sayin'.

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"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Tully Mars

The fact the the parent(s) were caught lying doesn't prove MJ didn't molest their child(ren.) It proves the parents are liars and makes it appear their motives were less then pure. There's no shortage of messed up parents in the world. The fact they're messed up doesn't prove MJ wasn't.

I think if MJ hadn't been a famous music star with a PR team around him most people would have been convinced at- "Jesus Juice," "of course children sleep in my bed, what's more natural then that?" And the fact none of his sleep over partners were girls. To me that all adds up to pedophile. A pedophile that prefers boys.

I stand by my position that musically he's was maybe one of the most talented people ever. God knows when I was in the Navy stationed on Treasure Is. in S.F. Bay having a tape of Thriller in my deck probably got me laid... a lot. I can assure it wasn't the Subaru hatchback I was driving, my charming wit with the ladies, or my high and tight haircut. But personally he was a mess of a human being. I think he was a victim of abuse (maybe not sexually, but emotionally) at the hands of his father. Most abusers start out as victims. It's a circle that almost can not be broken. My hope is he really was a good parent to his children, that that isn't just his PR team at work. I fear even if he was what's going to happen to them now will screw them up for the rest of their lives. I fear they're in for years of I want them, no I want them. And the reality will be no one really wants them, they'll only be interested in the royality right to MJ songs which will go on earning money for ever.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

jewels

That's a huge leap you're taking, Tully.

So he's been found not guilty within the legal system, the parents lied and were motivated by money, but he's still guilty? Just because one can't wrap their mind around the fact that his definition of love is pure and heartfelt doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

This is the first I've heard about physical and emotional abuse leading to pedophilia.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Reese

Seems odd that Michael Jackson has been abusing children since at LEAST 1993 when the first charges were brought against him. The first had the mother denying abuse had happened and the second time the father accusing his ex-wife of cohearsing her kids to say what she wanted and she was batshit insane too boot. Also seems odd that no other people have come forward against him, even 16+ years later when they became adults nobody else has really made accusations. Children that grew up around him like Macaulay Culkin were still good friends with him. It seems to me that like the Catholic church when everyone came out at the same time, but in Jackson's case, all of the other children and parents have denied wrong doing. It just doesn't add up for me. I'm not saying he did or didn't do anything. I don't know. I hope not. I just have to accept that he was not found guilty in either case. He was weird and It's easy to believe pretty much anything about weird people.

holy shit, that paragraph made almost no sense at all. I need to go to sleep.

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“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

Tully Mars

It is? Which part?

Our justice system finds people "not guilty" never "innocent." You're welcome to believe whatever you please. But I honestly think if it were Joe Blow the local grade school maintenance man going around passing out "Jesus juice" and having sleep overs with prepubescent boys (never girls) not very many people would be finding "reasonable doubt."

But what do I know? I always thought OJ was guilty too.

After running sex offender treatment groups for the State of Oregon every Thursday night for over eight years I can assure you it's not the first I've heard of it. If you're interested I could recommend a few books. Really anything by R.K. Hanson is good. There's several by a husband and wife team name Abrams that are not bad either.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Cynthetiq

Interesting, I never realized the semantic difference. One is not proclaimed innocent, even though the supposition is that you are innocent until proven guilty.

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Tully Mars

The justice system is made up of people, people make mistakes. Just like DNA has found that some people on death row could not have done the crime there have been cases where DNA has proved people found not guilty actually did in fact do it. Usually double jeopardy applies but sometime the feds move in and charge the person with a violation of anothers civil rights. Think about all those cases where KKK members were found "not guilty" only years later to be found guilty of civil rights violations for murdering someone.

Have you ever sat through an actual trial? It's interesting what evidence gets to the jury and what does not based on the law.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Xerxys

I'm here to derail the thread further ... I have always known that "not guilty" simply means "You did it but we just can't prove it" but there have a been a few times you could ask the court to absolve you of certain charges if found not guilty and with considerable proof alsio find you proven innocent as well as guilty. I just can't seem to find for the life of me when this was ever applied.

Derwood

I don't think making your kids wear masks while in public is really a recipe for self-adjusted children. Think they might have some self-worth issues as adults?

Wyodiver33

And the craziness continues... Relatives now want a second autopsy. Yes, it's a shame he's dead, but the constant news coverage is driving me nuts. "Breaking news! Jackson is still dead, now we will tell you all about the fact that we know nothing yet." And Sharpton and Jesse Jackson getting involved is 99.999% about getting their mugs on TV. Disgusting.

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I like stuff.

highthief

I think that's a pretty minor infraction compared to the way other celebrity or pseudo-celebrity kids have been prostituted in the media, don't you?

Shit, go to Asia and watch people wander around with masks all the time (scared of pollution, germs, whatever). Even here in North America you see a bit of it.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Tully Mars

I don't see the kids wearing face masks as that big of deal. For all I know it was the kids idea. I don't lots of children who want to behave like their parent(s.) Maybe MJ was simply trying to shield the children from the prying eyes of the public.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

mixedmedia

I haven't watched any of the coverage, but when my daughter and I stopped into a McDonald's to pee on Thursday night, we saw the story playing on the news. Somehow I was not surprised at all.

We listened to Michael Jackson songs on the ipod for the rest of the trip.

I haven't watched any news coverage or read anything about his death and I probably won't. As for speculation about Michael Jackson as a person - pfft, I could give a rat's ass. He left behind some great music, some good music and, frankly, some suckass music. All of that other crap is none of my business. Even though the Greer piece rb posted is a little over the top, I do admit that I've always felt that way about him...somewhat.

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