Chris Brown
 

Presumably even if this guy doesnt do time, his career is 100% over now.

Which is fair enough and if things are what the seem to be not the least of what he deserves.... but he should be entitled to a fair trial and face the judgment that is handed down from that. Already Jay Z is leaking death threats to him into the press.

Is it really acceptable that this level of reporting is allowed before a (probably) court case?

In the UK it wouldnt be and details of the alleged crime would not be published in the media until after the case is heard (as as not to prejudice the case)... freedom of information is important but I think this is another time when there are sensible reasons to limit it at least in the short term.

I saw the leaked pic and if Brown did that shit.. I hope he gets his fair turn of play soon..

don't be so quick on the career over thing.. we've seen people charged with child rape (R. Kelley) and people charged with shootings, drugs etc etc etc go on to a lengthy career.

So really, all he has to do is keep his PR low for a little while then come back out with some hit that features a squeeky clean star and he'll be right back where he is/was.

I think much of this is gossip and has been blown well out of proportion - I wouldn't even begin to post some of things I've read and heard about this entire fiasco but I doubt much of the truth of the matter has come to light.

In any case - there's nothing wrong with poking a little fun at it all:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__AMnuKG39h...is_ad+copy.jpg

And I'm pretty sure his career is far from done. The squeaky clean guy always ends up a bit dirty and everyone loves a comeback story. Not to mention the fact that his fan base consists mostly of rabid 14 year olds.

R Kelly is maybe comparable.

But shootings and drug charges can often give people more credibility. People seem to respect Shyne more now than they did before for example...

And to be honest, yeah - if he did beat up Rihanna as seems to be the case, then he should get at least 5 or 6 years worth of grey days: and serve the whole fucking lot too, no parole or serving half of it on license. And I'm sure Jay Z or someone from the record company can afford to pay someone in jail to give him a taste of his own medicine also.

i thought this sort of thing was accepted in the rap community.

at least that what i get from a good deal of the lyrics.

Yup.

They'll use this as a marketing ploy to sell the newest line of bruising make-up from l'oreal.

You know, look like your boyfriend just beat the holy hell out of you, just like Rihanna!

The shelves at Walgreens will be empty.

I'm just waiting for his name to catch on as a catch phrase.

"I just Chris Browned that hoe!"

"He just Chris Browned the living hell out of that guy!"

i think ill Chris Brown my dick tonight.

Dont see that its much to joke about.

What type of rap do you listen to?
I've listened to a great deal of rap in my time, and while respecting a woman who represents herself as a hoe/slut/cum-bucket is not encouraged, never once have I felt beating/hitting a woman was.

yeah we could. i don't really want to debate it, i want to know what type of rap ssjtwizta is listening to, that's all.

My post was more in reference to the fact that none of this has anything to do with rap music - Chris Brown isn't a rapper. He sings pop music.

But ya know, it's all urban anyway.

I know you have a special aversion to woman beating but having your personal life made fun of is what being famous is all about.

thanks manic. was wondering when someone was going to mention that chris brown isnt a rapper. rap isnt sung only by black men.

SF, it seems strange that you think that a fit of rage can land someone in jail for 5-6 years. dont get me wrong, im totally against any form of domestic violence, but you seem to think that someone losing 5-6 years of their life for this is sufficient punishment. i totally disagree. thats almost 10% of someones full life span. lets be real here. rapists and murderers get away with less than that many times!

lets not crucify him because he's famous. and certainly not before his case is heard.

Pretty doubtful its the first time though. With people who beat up women it hardly ever is.

I dont pre judge him, but if he is guilty he is scum.

ha!
"its pretty doubtful its the first time though.....i dont prejudge him"

do you see the contradiction here? or is it just me?

i'd put it another way...

if he did beat his girlfriend up, he's scum.

yeah... I don't know how the whole rap thing came into this..

real hip-hop would never condone these actions, and as mentioned before..Chris Brown is about as pop as Craig David..so it's apples and oranges..

I've heard that Rhianna was crazy..so there's no telling what happened.. If it was just and argument..then..she didn't deserve it..but (and I'm not saying that anything would make it ok) until we hear both sides of the story there's really nothing to see here.

Domestic violence is not exclusive to hip hop (see: Turner, Ike; Minelli, Liza; and Myers, Brett)

Jay-Z isn't making death threats to Chris Brown. He's already had his troubles over being accused of stabbing a producer.

Chris Brown never had a career to begin with. He was only good for two or three albums before he gets passed on by some other baby-faced crooner. The music industry is littered with them.

LOL

>>LINK<<

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- OK this thread has nothing to do with a certain genre of music. It's sole purpose is to discuss an incident that occurred between two music personnel. Let's keep the 'rap is crap' crap for another thread that can honestly debate the sides of it and not in this thread.

I thought his man stabbed Un and made him take the blame?? ;)

But anyway, there were leaks that Jay Z decribed Chris Brown as a "walking dead man"... I dont suppose he needs to do it himself to get something done like that.

Beating up a popular and adored (by some people anyway) r&b singer isnt exactly a good thing to do for your health in any case.

Nope, I have to agree with you there. I was told that he did not get arrested for hitting her in the first place, it had something to do with criminal threats. Did she file charges are something? And why does everyone think he beat her up? Is it possible someone else did? And if she's crazy, what if she did it to herself?

Right

Or maybe she walked into a door?

Fell down the stairs?

Did you see her face btw?

maybe he accidentally elbowed her in the head in singing practice in the shower... for all i care, he hasnt been found guilty of anything yet

when he does, ill bag the crap out of the &^%$#

Yes, he's innocent until proven guilty - but "she did it to herself"? Come on, you dont take seriously either do you?

haha!

actually no..but there are plenty of ways she could have got a black eye and a cut lip.

it doesnt necesarily involved black pop singer boyfriends

ha, no i was not taking myself seriously. just throwing out other options that came to mind. brown is not the only person that could have beat her up.

and no, i haven't seen any of the photos, maybe i'll google it.

I know that you're thinking about 'dirty ghetto style hood action' but another problem, is that CB and Rhianna's music is mostly accessed by suburban kids in parental driven households. That's a contributor to the big stink about this. Well, that and the whole beating his girlfriend bit...

Rihana has a following in Barbados as well doesnt she?

And I know she has done a track with Sizzla

Yes, she's actually from Barbados. I'm not sure when she came to the US, but I know she was in High School in Barbados in 2004, and her first album came out in 2005. Her first album had a lot of that 'Carribean flavor' to it, and then she kind of lost that as her next work came along.

I've seen the photo's..

she got beat and her face started to swella 'ella 'ella 'ella...

excuse the pun...but you forgot a beat

oh oh oh eh eh eh

WOW. that was just way too funny.

I think Chris Browns career is over because it is Rihanna. She's an up and coming artist and quite popular. If it was just some random lady, it might've added some creditability. He'll get his coming in due time but as celebrity jailbirds go, he'll serve little time.

it's not even the fact that his music career is over. He's lost all of his sponsorships as well. He really put himself away for good.

Looks like Rhianna will testify against him in court

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Singer Rihanna 'would testify'

Not exactly shocking.. but I'm surprised she didn't have a no contact order placed on him.. that helps the defense out quite a bit.

Well that and the various reports that they're back together. Rhianna is quite famous but so is he. And while he may have lost many of his endorsements, between the music, movies and concerts - he generates far too much cash to be allowed to fade away.

I don't think many of the people on this forum realize how famous he is.

They may not.. I'm guessing it's because there probably isn't a huge pop following on here. I guess the old saying that Cash is King really rings true.

False. I'll go ahead and take this minute to remind everyone about a man named R. Kelly. I mean, the dude pee'd all over a girl, and people still LOVE him. :orly:

Four years sounds pretty light. I read that he choked her to the point of unconsciousness, he could be looking at attempted murder for that. But all the details will come out in court and at the moment its all just gossip which isnt that helpful.

I've also been seeing reports that Chris Brown and Rihanna are doing a duet about domestic violence. /facepalm

This kid is going to get a slap on the wrist and all will be forgotten in due time. Before we know it he'll be back making terrible music and making millions pleasing his pre-teen fans. :thumbsup:

I reckon 5 years bottom weight. If he decides to plead innocent he's probably looking at 10. 3 to a cell, staring at a concrete wall for 23 hours a day.

Money only gets you so far.

I'd imagine that money would get you a hell of a lot further than your special aversion to domestic violence. He's in the wrong and obviously should be punished but ten years of imprisonment over this?

..

Exactly. He won't do serious jail time and he shouldn't.

I hope his sentence comes along with a shitload of community service hours. Throwing the book at him would do a hell of a lot less for society than forcing him to educate and interact with those who adore him.

Just as they've done with T.I. who faced much more serious charges and committed a much more serious offense.

I want R. Kelly to teach me not to pee on underage women. They should make a TV show out of that, I mean, TI has a spot on MTV.

If I was the DA I'd be telling Brown something like:

"listen, darling, you'e in deep shit and the state governer wants attempted murder charges against you and to bring your girlfriend on the stand with tears in her eyes to tell the world what you did to her... thats 15 years and I swear on my mother's grave I'll lean very hard on the parole board to make sure you do 10... high security, in with the worst thugs and gangsters who do hate people who beat women.... youre in very deep trouble and youre just a silly cunt. Now plead guilty right now to a lesser charge and do I'll make sure you do 5. You're really in the shit right now and I dont give a fuck about you, so squeal quickly like a fucking shit, fuck you. You're brief will do you as much good as a credit card at the gates of hell. I've marked your card and I know you will do hard time. Decide now, its 5 years or 10, very hard. Make your choice sweetheart and live with it, you cunt"

thats what I'd say.

no shit.

oh i know....lets give those bullies that start fights on sidewalks with little dweebs 10 years too!

that'd fix things wont it!

giving unrealistic sentences does nothing for anyone. i'm sure i dont recall a 10 year jail sentence for petty offences under english common law the last time i checked.

I do not even know who Chris Brown is, in fact the only name in this thread that I recognize is Rihanna and Jay Z.

But his is what I do know about "stars", they get a slap on the wrist.

And I think that the harsh reality is that no one is going to give a shit what he did, if they like his music they are still going to listen to it, and potentially buy his albums. Most people don't give a crap about the personal lives of any of the musicians or actors out there, they just enjoy what they do for us.

I think its horrible if he did beat her to a pulp. But I agree that they should give him community service, let the citizens of this great world know that its not okay to do this, and go after real criminals.

Sounds that way. Even now Rhianna is being poised to not testify because of a legal loophole that identified her as the victim.

I think they will do a duet, write a book about domestic violence and go on Oprah and all will be forgiven.

One thing I know for sure is that if Rhianna is beaten up again by him or worse,..killed,..then it will be 100% her fault. If she sticks around after the beating she took already, she deserves everything that comes to her. End of story.

you're not serious are you?

100% it'd be her fault if she got beat up again or killed? 100%??

how does being the victim of domestic violence make you responsible for your own beating or death? please enlighten me

You consider attempted murder a petty offence?

SF, you show me where i said petty offences include attempted murder. we are talking about dometic violence here.

Assault and attempted murder are two different things.lets not twist words here. its pretty plain and simple.

what i was trying to do was to draw a link between two petty offences that should be dealt with local magistrate courts. one in a domestic violence situation, the other in a street offence that also occurred a few weeks ago. usually in the australian system there is a limit to what you can sentence people for. anything further or more serious is to be dealt with higher courts

but of those two offences i mentioned earlier, if one deserves 10 years, why not the other? we ARE talking about JUSTice here right?

There was no attempted murder here.. if you're going to start spouting charges at least know the difference between them.

If he choked her, wrapped his hands around her throat and strangled her, until she was not conscious (as reported) - thats much more than common assault.

I dont understand that people consider I have some kind of "special aversion" to men who beat up women, I am a human being and it is perfectly natural to find such people revolting.

And I dont think actually that this is an attempted murder case, but I was talking about attempted murder charges, for which 10 years wouldnt be out of the question.

I believe Brown deserves 5 years certainly - IF he is guilty. Because if he did this once I think we can be fairly sure he did it more than once.

In a previous post someone alluded to something which involved me. Yes - I started a fight with two people who insulted me, and if I'd have been charged for it it would have been common assault and I'd probably have 80 hours community service, £200 compensation to pay and I'd have lost my job for it. I hold my hands up, if that'd happened I wouldnt have the right to complain about it. But a man getting into a fight with another couple of men is a million miles away from a disgusting case such as a violent thug beating up and choking a woman. No one who is sane could claim that these things are even related to each other in terms of seriousness or morality.

All I'm saying is that even though it can happen and does on a frequent basis, there's really no point in putting charges on someone unless the DA is sure he can get a Grand Jury Indictment.

~~~~~

Hopefully he'll have the next three and a half years with fuck all else to do but stare at a concrete wall - so he should have lots of time to write his next album at least.

I read a thread on Fark today with a load of morons saying that Rihanna deserves to be beaten up and she is asking for it and making jokes about what songs she'll do next "he hit me and it felt like a kiss" etc...

She's supposed to be a role model apparently and measure her response with all due consideration for how it will impact on others and how the media will spin it. Apparently she isnt allowed to be a human being, who has been brutalised and bullied and battered by a disgusting coward, and who might actually be suffering and in pain.

Maybe people should just give her some space to get her life back on track after this abuse.

Brown is entitled to a fair trial, and if he's found guilty then he should face the music. People like Dlish might consider that choking a 110 lbs women, smashing her head against a car window and repeatedly punching her is some kind of "petty" matter... a small thing to be dealt with by a local magistrate (am I quoting you corretly?). I am glad to say that most people find that kind of opinion ridiculous and offensive and disgraceful, and want to see real justice done. Five years bottom weight if he pleads guilty straight away, and he might get a chance to grovel in front of a parole board and get out 18 months if he keeps his head down on the inside.

You've obviously never heard of mitigating factors.

There's no way he'll get even a year for assault. He might get some probation time and be required to make some PSA's on the ugliness of violence, Domestic Abuse etc etc, but to even say 5 years is lunacy.

Seems quite obvious to me:


-

Most people? You might want to contrast that statement with many of the posts made in this very thread before you speak for what most people think.

Let's just hope they think of all the other prisoners and force him to serve his entire sentence in solitary confinement. We all know how feisty those 19 year old R&B singers can be.

It's obvious that those who are less capable of physically defending themselves are deserving of special protection from the law and Chris Brown should be punished accordingly. However, you can't call for blood over this when if this were two men it'd result to nothing more than a fine and maybe a few months probation.

strangefamous, i think you need to get a grip on reality. 5 years is an extreme sentence for a petty crime that should be dealt with a magistrates court (yes you got it right). everyone wants justice. there is no doubt about it. if you want real justice, its not 5 years though. but lets just wait and see what he gets if he ever gets to trial.

lets not kid ourselves here. if i put the pic you posted last week with your facials cuts, and rihannas assault pic side by side, i dare say your pic looked markedly worse! and yours was a simple fall because some chick fell on you or something. i dont recall exactly.

And here you are saying that chris brown smashed her against the car and repeatedly punched her. please! she'd be in a lot worse shape than that if he had done what you say he did. but lets assume he did. it still wouldnt mean that he deserves 5 years jail. thats just a ludicrous number you pulled out of you're ass. it has no justification or precedent in law.

I repeat that I, and the majority of people, do not find a man viciously beating up a 110 lbs women to be a "petty" crime.

In terms of legal precedent...

GBH or Wounding WITHOUT intent carries 5 years top weight in the UK. WITH intent (which I don't think will be the charge brought against Brown has a top weight of life, ie 12 years minimum on the inside)

I believe that the top weight for Felony Assault (with which Brown is charged) is also five years.

Given the cowardly nature of the attacks, the level of violence, and the huge advantage in strength over the victim (as well as the likely existence of prior violence in the relationship) - I would expect that if Brown was found guilty he would be looking at the maximum sentence certainly. As a high profile example of violence against women, would the judge decide to show the world that this a crime that is considered a "petty matter" and all he should have is a slap on the wrists - as dlish considers? Or should he and will he demonstrate that the American legal system takes these kind of abusive assaults seriously?

Mitigating factors? Brown, a physically fit and strong 19 year old attacks a young woman, while she is stuck in a locked car with a seatbelt restraining her from even raising her hands to shield herself from the repeated blows... her head is smashed into a car window, she is choked, repeatedly punched until her mouth fills with blood and she is close to passing out, and according to some reports is even bitten. What mitigating factors do we wish to discus in relation to the above? What might Rihanna have done to be considered mitigation for this attack?

I say again, if he is found guilty, throw the book at him. Five years, very hard time, sweeping up concrete dust with a dustpan and brush in the arse end of nowhere until he is half way into his 20's. He deserves no less, and the American people deserve justice to be done.

Chris Brown isn't a rapper tho.

You're forgetting one very important thing. This didn't happen in the UK.

Since you're going to go on with this sensationalist bullshit, perhaps we should also look at the reports that allege that Rhianna found another woman's number in Brown's phone and then she assaulted him first. What should we do with her then? Throw the book at her? You can't say no, because after all assault is assault right? :rolleyes:

For the American people to get justice, we would require 2 things. A fair and unbiased trial with unbiased jurors free from sensationalist viewpoints; and a fair sentence. Your proposal is neither. You sound like bad Fox News article.

Am I really supposed to believe that Rihanna - who as already stated probably weighs 110 lbs - assaulted Chris Brown? Come on, be serious... this isnt a matter for jokes and comedy.

And Felony Assault is the US crime which Brown has been charged with. From the research I did top weight for that is 5 years, so thats what Brown can expect. Five year sentence and serve 3 1/2 if he's good. I believe he is also facing a case on making criminal threats - dont know what the weight is for that, but it would reasonable to expect the sentence to run concurrently with the Felony Assault - if he pleads guilty or is found guilty.

you started the jokes.. not me.

Does weight really factor into assault?? If I walked by you and punched you in the face and you crumbled to the ground, am I automatically exonerated of assault because you weigh quite a bit more than me? Does gender automatically exonerate someone of assault?? If Rhianna punched Brown does that not constitute assault? Does assault specifically mean "beaten to a pulp"? Perhaps you should ponder these things before you try to bring a legal precedent argument to the table.

You've also got mitigating factors messed up. Mitigating factors can be a set of guidelines that a judge can go by and set a sentence based on the scale of those factors. For instance, if the max penalty is 2 years imprisonment, and the defendant is shown to have 'x' number of mitigating factors, then the judge can reduce the sentence in accordance with the number of factors. A judge can also overturn a jurors decision although it's quite rare. Another thing to consider here, is that Brown has no prior run in's, and if he pleads guilty will get a suspended sentence. This allows for people to be put on probation to try to prove that they have learned a lesson. If they fail to meet the requirements then they must serve the sentence that was imposed. See in America, we like to give people some benefit of the doubt as well as letting people try to improve their lives. I'll be the first to admit the justice system is fucked two ways from sunday, but from what I read from you, it's nowhere near as bad as the one in the UK.

Holy shit does this enrage the feminist in me. Rihanna could kill him. It doesn't matter what she weighs, nor does it matter if she's "the fairer sex." :rolleyes: Who's the one with the comedy?

Why should he expect the top weight?

Look at Rihanna, look at Chris Brown. Look at the photo's of them after the incident... who do YOU think was the victim? Chris Brown is a powerfully built young man at the peak of physical fitness. Any person who's view of the world is based in reality rather than pure logic can tell that it is next to impossible that Rihanna could or would beat him. Is it technically possible for a woman to assault a man - tecnically yes. Is it likely - obviously not at all.

Brown deserves top weight precisely because there was no mitigating factor. This wasnt a fair fight, it wasnt even a fight, it was a case of a deranged thug beating someone who is not strong enough to defend themselves. She asks Brown was he has been texting another woman, he responds by beating her because she dared question him - thats the narrative I see.

This is the same exact argument that you've used to defend the absurd opinion that a woman couldn't ever sexually assault a man - regardless of the circumstances - because in your reality it simply can't happen.

How you don't see this argument as inflammatory and sexist is beyond me. :rolleyes:

...

Okay, don't take this too far out of context. I didn't say Chris Brown was the victim; though it is entirely possible that he was victimized in other less obvious ways. It simply doesn't matter how built he is -- he breathes and bleeds the same as the rest of us, he has the same life systems we do. We know how he can die, and even a child could make it happen, even by accident.

I don't know if the story has come forward, but when a woman decides to attack someone, it doesn't matter who it is or who they're attacking. It's a dangerous situation.

But is this the actual story? Do we even know this? I'm not saying he isn't responsible for the assault, but do we know Rihanna did nothing but take a beating?

Obviously, my last post was skipped over entirely. So quit using legal terms unless you are understanding of them. and.. just in case you missed it the first time, here's my previous post again.

I don't know why I bother to debate with you SF. You take a viewpoint and do not bother to even try to see it in a different light.

EDIT: Here's a short list of mitigating factors that can be used in a person's defense.

http://www.fd.org/pdf_lib/108Mitigating_Factors.pdf

read it and quit tossing bullshit around that there is no mitigating factor. There are *ALWAYS* mitigating factors in trials.

And I repeat that there are no mitigating factors to be considered if Brown is found guilty or confesses.

I understand what the word mitigation means, and it is a relative concept. There is no fact which Brown can state regarding his situation which is relivant in relation to the crime committed.

For example, being a drug addict might be relavant to theft charges, because the person's sickness drove them to steal.

Trying to get clean might be relevant to drugs charges, because the person is facing up to their problems.

These are mitigating factors.

In relation to the level of violence which this brute exercised against a defenceless young woman, there is no fact which is of sufficient relavance IN RELATION TO THE DISGUSTING NATURE OF THE CRIME wich can be considered mitigation.

This wasnt the first time, she wasnt "asking for it" because of something she said about him having other girls phone numbers, he is not genuinely sorry because if so he would have plea bargained already and asked for 10 years rather than the five he'll get.

Brown has no excuse for these crimes, and there is no mitigating factors. The seriousness of the crime does not allow for any.

The majority of people want to see him do serious time - if he gets only 1 year, what message does this send to the women of America? That the state will allow a thug to beat a woman close to unconsciousness and only give a light sentence because it is a "petty crime"? I would expect this under the Taleban regime in Afghanistan, not in the worlds greatest power - what would this say about American justice. No, this is not good enough. He must face a real sentence and he must be made an example of. The fact that these crimes were carried out in the public eye means that the public demands absolute justice.

He should be facing whatever the US equivalent is to GBH with Intent, and then he would be glad to plea down to five years.

You're so completely wrong on every facet of this. I'm not going to argue the legal side with you anymore because honestly, you're clueless.

What you must understand is that morality comes into this. The law is not a mathematical formula applied by a machine, it is a process governed by human beings. The judge just needs to look at the pictures of Rihann'a battered face to decide what Brown deserves, not some 100 page document about reasons to go easy on criminals.

no what you must understand is that the 100 page document exists for a reason. A judge is bound to not put his own morality into a sentence. A trial exists for the factual reasonings..not the moral reasonings, because morality is subjective. There is no one set standard of morality. To blanket everyone under one definition of morality does nothing.

The law exists for a reason, just as the factors exist for a reason. You say there are none in this case, but, you don't know the whole story and cannot come to that conclusion by any means other than your own vision of morality.

this is why you are wrong. not because you can't read. you're wrong as a whole on the entire process of the justice system in the united states.

The law is nothing more or less than an expression of the morality of the society in which it exists. The state may try to place in checks and balances, but any such things can be swept aside with sufficient popular demand. No judgment is made in a moral vacuum, and as I said in the first instance, every mitigating factor is considered in relation to the crime.

Would the same exact circumstances be considered equally as mitigating factors for a car thief and a serial killer? Of course not - and that is the point I am making.

Brown might not be a murderer, but his actions have put him in a deep enough hole that nothing can save him from taking the top weight for this.

of course you don't use the same mitigating factors.. that's why the attorney selects the mitigating factors that pertain to the case. DUH. One rather simple mitigating factor the judge could look at is that Brown had no motive to do this and he wouldn't receive monetary gain by doing this. Another would be that Brown would be subject to unfair treatment in prison. There ya go, there's two factors right there. So don't say that there are none in this case. You're confusing factors that lead to the incident with factors that the defendant has in his favor.

Here's a little tidbit you might enjoy. Brown hasn't even been arraigned yet. So guess what that means.. he'll get no time on this. So yeah you're so wrong on claiming top weight. His actions have not put him in any sort of deep hole. He'll simply pull his probation and then he'll come out squeeky clean. Obviously the abuse wasn't that bad if Rhianna is back with him. That completely blows the case out of the water. That's why we haven't even seen an arraignment yet. The DA will offer him 1 year of probation in lieu of a maximum 180 day jail sentence or something similar. So keep championing top weight or some insane amount of jail time for this.. it's not going to happen.

Most prisons have special units for the most revolting criminals who might be subject to violence from other inmates - so that cannot be a consideration.

The crime is not a financial crime, so whether he materially gained from the assaualt is irrelevant to the charges he faces.

I dont believe that him and Rihanna are back together. He is facing Felony Assault charges as I understand, if I was in his position I would have thought he wouldnt have applied for bail and should have stayed inside on remand - there'd be a good chance that time served could be taken into account against the sentence.

actually, considering the amount of money they both make both of those factors can certainly be used. Special houses do not guarantee safety of prisoners.

and here's a article about them being back together

Rihanna and Chris Brown Are Back Together - Chris Brown, Rihanna : People.com

TI just got one year for possession of an illegal metal.

Does any person, whether a judge or a person on this site - with their hand on their heart think that Chris Brown should be treated more lightly than this for savagely beating up Rihanna?

Also, the judge may be forced to consider foriegn relations. The people of Barbados would surely see it as a slap in the face if an American hooligan is allowed to beat up one of their favourite daughters? Im not saying Bardados poses an economic threat to the US, but of course they would not want to sour relations with such a close neighbour.

This really can be an issue. Does anyone remember the English nanny Louise Woodward who was convicted of manslaughter of a baby? The UK press was rabid and bordering on suggesting a pre-emptive tactical nuclear assault on Boston, there were petitions raised with 100,000's of signatures, reports of American ex-pats in the UK renouncing their citizenship (even if its only a couple of nutcases, its still powerful stuff) - the judge was under so much pressure he sentenced her to time served and no more. So international relations can definitely be an issue in a domestic case when the public attention is captured.

chris brown just made himself a sorry sucker. why should we feel sorry for him? did rhianna beat the shit out of him or something?

well.. looks like this saga is finally over. Brown pleads to 5 years probation and 6 months community service.

What a joke. This is a national disgrace and a very serious international incident.

I would expect the Bahama's to make very strong representations that a crazed hooligan who viciously beats and assults one of their citizens is treated to no more than a slap on the wrist.

Rihana has to make these statements so as not to suffer commercial damage from rabid Chris Brown fans. I feel inside she must be very sad to learn how seriously violence towards women is taken in America.

Rhianna disagrees with you, and I, personally, think you are severely exaggerating.

I expect her record company forced her to make such a statement... did you notice how what she "said" mirrored almost exactly what the record company person said?

Exageration?

She was choked until close to blacking our, her face was repeatedly rammed into a car window, and she was punched in the face. Rihanna weighs I would gues a max of 120 pounds, Chris Brown is a physically fit 20 year old man.

This is an absolutely disgusting crime, and I really cannot understand how the court can claim that the law has been upheld when he can walk away from this with nothing more than probation and a few hours community service (which I expect he will serve going round schools and telling young men that they can get away with beating up their girlfriends if they are rich enough to hire really expensive counsel)

This is very very disappointing.

Its sad to say it, but it is no wonder that so many crimes of domestic violence are unreported. This isnt just a knock to the American system because it is similar in many nations - basically assaulting a women is just a bit of a joke to the male dominated legal system and all the criminal normally gets is a slap on the wrist.

Exaggeration?

Just a bit.

I will defend every statement

1 - It is a joke that inflicting the kind of injuries on a defenceless woman that Rihanna suffered in an unprovoked physical attack is not dealt with with a jail sentence

2 - The lenitent attitude that is shown to domestic violence is a grave embarassment to America, and to other nations where beating up a female spouse is just seen as a privat matter and a bit of a laugh to the institutionally sexist justice system.

3 - I think certainly the people of the Bahama's will very unhappy that one of their most famopus daughters has been violently beaten up by a man who wont serve a day in jail fo it because he is rich and his victim was his partner. I expect that the American ambassador in Bahama's has already been summoned and an offical protest made.

4 - We do not need to dwell on the horrible injuries inflicted on Rihanna again. Would you descrive Brown's activity as sane or peaceful?

5 - no jail time. Not one day inside. Probation and a bit of community service (which as I said already he will undoubtably spend simply going round school's talking about domestic violence and how he got away with it)

6 - I have seen multiple Facebook groups backing Brown even when th photo's leaked. I have no doubt that her record company have told her not to appear vengeful and risk losing sales to female fans who have crushes on the lunatic Brown. A very very sad state of affairs indeed.

supervised probation.. that means at least monthly reviews from a probation officer and if he violates he will serve the suspended sentence.

and please.. male dominated justice system? don't even get me started on that one.

It's not a joke. This kind of sentencing happens all the time. Do you know what probation entails? Have you ever done that much community service? Have you taken courses on domestic violence? Even if you haven't, how can you perceive these things as a laughing matter?

I don't think Brown is laughing. Probation is a serious responsibility. Twelve months is a long time to be under probation. And, yeah, let's not open that can of worms regarding sexism in the justice system....

I think Bahamian politicians have far more important matters to attend to than spend any time on an issue of common-law misdemeanors between two parties that happen off Bahamian soil. The most I'd expect is a public statement issued from an office to the media in the form of a release. And his kind of sentencing happens to poor people too, so that's a non-issue.

Sanity isn't an issue,I don't think. What he did was against public peace, of course. I don't think he's a "crazed hooligan." He'd have a different fate if that was the issue.

He's going to clean up graffiti and pick up litter. Even Boy George did that. Plus the requirements under which one must abide for court-issued probation can be highly restrictive. And, as I said, 12 months is quite a while to abide by these. This is not a slap on the wrist. A slap on the wrist would have been a minimal fine and a few weekends in detention.

Yes, yes, he's such a looney, just like his fans. Are you saying he should be institutionalized on grounds of insanity? Why would want you send someone like that to a general population prison?

I'm sorry, but you aren't convincing me.

If Brown had beaten up a male police officer he'd have done 5 years

The fact that it was his partner and a woman means that the crime wasnt taken seriously at all - its just a "domestic" in the eyes of the male chauvenist justice system.

You can't be serious. If he'd have attacked another man it wouldn't have even been news. The leaps in logic required to defend your argument are incredible but at least you're consistent. :rolleyes:

SF, ive disagreed with you on this issue from the start.

now that he's sentenced, do i think it was a fair sentence? personally no.

that's not to take away from the sentence that was passed on. i prersonally would have liked to see hard labour or a small stint in prison, maybe a month or two, but i wasnt privvy to the case, so i cant make that judgement. the judge who had all the details of the case as well as both arguments i dare say would be the best person to make that judgement.

wait.. so you're saying that beating up federal official or cop is equal to beating up your girlfriend? What if it was a female cop he had beaten up?

He was looking at a max sentence of 4 years. *4*.. got it? *4* years. This being his first offense, the D.A. was willing to barter. Now let's think about this for a moment. Why would the D.A. want to barter on this case? Could it be because Rhianna wasn't going to really say what he wanted her to say? Could it be that Rhianna wanted a lighter sentence for Brown? *newsflash* the victim can give their input to the D.A. on what they would like..if she said she didn't want him to go to prison, then the D.A. can broker that deal.

With all the PR going around this case, it would have been simple for the D.A. to burn Brown's ass. He could have easily said there would be no negotiations and he would have to face Judge and Jury. However, a plea was struck, which tells me there's more going on behind the scenes of this than we know.

Nobody is defending Brown's actions, but I dare say that if anyone in this thread ever found themselves in front of a jury, they'd be begging for the D.A. to hand a deal like this down..

Possibly, but that would be because it's a more serious offense.

If he had beaten up a female police officer, he would have been eaten alive.

"Wasn't taken seriously at all." So there was no case? No sentencing? Brown is "off the hook"?

What male-chauvinist system? Are you talking about the one that incarcerates 9 men for every woman? I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Did you want special treatment for this case because Rhianna is female and Brown is male? What are you asking for?

Although I personally think the sentencing was a bit light (I would have preferred to see him serve weekend detentions for at least the better part of those 12 months in addition to probation), 5 years' imprisonment would be far heavier than the norm.

The other issue is whether society would benefit from Brown giving back to society and proving himself responsible, as opposed to placing him in a prison population, where he could quite possibly take a turn for the worse. I don't think anyone would want Brown to become worse in his ways.

Yes,there was something going on behind the scenes allright. Money, sexism, and more money.

Of course it is a less disgusting crime to brawl with a male policeman than to savagely brutalise a 120 lbs young woman. The strongest factor that should be considered in any assault case is (1) the degree of injury (2) the relative strength of the two parties (3) provocation.

In this case Rihanna was badly beaten (but not killed), by a man who is far heavier, stronger, and bigger than her, with no provocation at all.

By this simple measure that I think is obvious to anyone, Brown's crime was amongst the worst. We all know the real life story of how this works Its an old boys network, Brown's counsel has a word with the DA (you scratch my back, I scratch yours, lts cooperate on this and I'll do you a favour on the next case, he didnt kill the girl and she probably was asking for it, etc...)

Now, I dont know the exact words spoken but I suspect my account is very accurate and to be honest I find it sickening.

In ANY case, where the other key factors are equal (ie the same amount of injury and no provocation) the order of seriousness of the crimes is as follows

1 - a female minor/a baby
2 - an adult female
3 - a male minor
4 - a male adult

Assaulting a male is still a crime and still can be serious, but it is less serious as assaulting a woman, due to the simple fact that (1) on average women ae less trong (2) in all cases women do not have the violent instincts of the male

I fixed it for you.

Seriously, I don't know what else to say except that you have some interesting, albeit disturbing, fantasies on issues of justice and gender.

You know this as fact? Please forward me the evidence list and the transcripts and depositions of all involved. Thanks. :rolleyes:

The next thing you talk about is this:

Now if Rhianna was some bum on the street and pennyless, I could perhaps see this stretch of logic, however, given the fact that Brown and Rhianna both have tons of cash, it doesn't fit the mold. You're seriously reaching.

Now, personally, I think most women would find it sickening that you think assaulting a woman is more serious than a man. If that ideal doesn't scream 'sexism' I don't know what does. It's extremely sexist and insulting.

As far as your male dominated justice system goes.. let's be honest here.. Men are arrested far more than women and women can easily scream "Domestic" with no evidence and have a man locked up. They can scream "Rape" and have a man's image tarnished for life just because they said he did it... now who's side is the system really on?? Oh that's right.. women are inferior and the weaker of the sex so they must be treated specially right? :rolleyes:

I feel that you are misrepresenting me.

I do not think that women are inferior, women are on the whole emotionally more stable, stronger, more caring, and lacking in aggression and physical violence. This makes them by the standards of society today superior members of society to men - on average.

That women - on average - physically weaker than men is self evident to any person who observes reality.

Someone quoted that 9 men are arrested for every 1 woman. I wont dispute that but I expect that there are 20 male criminals for every female 1, and 500 men guilty of violent assault for every woman guilty of any crime involving violence whatsoever. Yes, it can happen that women commit assault - but its very very rare.

__

I do not need to show you a single transcript to say there was no provocation.

I know 100% that there was none because I saw a picture of Rihanna with her faced bruised and cut, and I saw Chris Brown without a mark on him. The "provocation" that set Brown off was anything that challenged his male superiority complex - maybe she answered back, maybe she looked at another guy... to the habitual brute anything can be enough. Luckily the law does not recognise such things as provocation.
_


Now, I have never said women are inferior or weak. But I am a real life person who walks about the world and based on my experience and knowledge I know for myself that women are very often the victims of male violence and it is hardly ever the case the other way round. This isnt as you seem to say that I am criticising women for being "less good at violence"... such a view is really crazy in my opinion.

you do in fact need to show transcripts and depositions if you are to claim knowledge of a case.

The court has plenty of similar circumstances that are recognized as provocation..and they all fall under various guidelines.

I also find it funny how are now using "habitual brute" when referencing Brown. Had he been a "Habitual brute" he would not have only received his probation and CS.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Criminal Offenders Statistics

In 1998 there were an estimated 3.2 million arrests of women, accounting for 22% of all arrests that year.
Based on self-reports of victims of violence, women account for 14% of violent offenders, an annual average of about 2.1 million violent female offenders.
Women accounted for about 16% of all felons convicted in State courts in 1996: 8% of convicted violent felons, 23% of property felons, and 17% of drug felons.
In 1998 more than 950,000 women were under correctional supervision, about 1% of the U.S. female population.

Granted, the numbers are skewed heavily in the direction of men, but to say that's rare that a woman commits violent acts is in and of itself very naive.

So.. really this is kind of pointless to carry on unless you can show me true evidence that the man paid his way out, had his lawyers do a voodoo act on the D.A. or prove that Rhianna is not satisfied with things.. or that the law was not carried out.

What further proof do you need that the justice system is institutionally sexist than to come up with an incredible figure of 8% of violent assaults being committed by women?

Its likely at least 80% of these were self defence or unsafe convictions.

Lets talk about real life, not stats... how many people do you know who have ever been the victim of a violent crime? Likely some. Were any of them assaulted by a female? Likely not.

does female on female violence count? Quite a few.

Let's do talk about real life. Have a female friend of yours call the police and tell them you assaulted her. See what happens. Now you call the police and tell them she assaulted you. see what happens. You'll find two very different scenarios played out.

Now have her call the police and tell them you raped her. See what happens. Now call them and tell them she raped you.. what happens? Nothing. (I fully know your position on male rape so let's not go into that argument here)

The justice system continually allows for the protection of women with no evidence or standard. How is that a system that is pro-male sexist? A woman can say just about anything to have a man arrested, it is not the same when the roles are switched. I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen men get reduced to nothing just because of one person's word. Male sexism? Nah, I say it's the opposite.