"indie" music. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

thespian86 · 02-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Usually means lazy sounding voices and mismatched instruments. Other times it is the "beginning of a movement". IMO indie is simply just another genre now, has very little to do with independence. I have to say a lot of "indie music" is very appealing to my ears and I often find myself scanning myspace looking for a new album to buy. So I'm wondering your favorite "indie" artists and albums. I bought a few this week and thought I'd share.

Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend: Reminds me a lot of Paul Simon's Graceland, mixed with a little Police. Very interesting, even though they have a stupid name.

Tokyo Police Club - Smith [EP]: I got this little gem walking out of the store. I can't find anything by TPC that I don't like. They are like a little musical pistol. Their first full length is coming soon and I'm looking forward to it very much.

Rilo Kiley - Under The Black Light: Jenny Lewis' voice sounds like sex. It doesn't really scream Rilo Kiley rock but tastes more like Jenny Lewis' solo work last year with "rabbit fur coat". Very nice though.

Rooney - Calling the world: Really disappointed with this one. Rooney's first album was my guilty little pleasure, had great SoCal harmonies and hooks. This is trying to be something, but I can't put my finger on it. One song sounds like a fucking Journey song for god sakes. I did like one song, simply becasue it reminds me of Tears For Fears titled "When did your heart go missing?".

let me know.

SSJTWIZTA · 02-08-2008, 03:54 PM

i like only one indy band really.

The Pixies...yeah, yeah i know..its "cliché" (sp)

Manic_Skafe · 02-08-2008, 04:57 PM

Rooney are signed to Geffen - a major label. I bought their self-titled album after seeing their video for "Blueside" a few years ago. Great band - how are their newer albums?

A few of my favorite indie artists are:

Melt Banana

Cage

Car Bomb

Yak Ballz

Saul Williams

Aesop Rock

(Seriously, click the damn links)

SSJTWIZTA · 02-08-2008, 05:22 PM

I thought melt banana was considered "noise"

Bear Cub · 02-08-2008, 05:26 PM

Hell yea, Aesop Rock FTMFW!

creepysusie · 02-09-2008, 02:19 AM

Two words: Neko Case
Anything she is in is fantastical. Her participation in The New Pornographers earn them the title "super indie band" for good reason.

thespian86 · 02-09-2008, 05:32 AM

The New Pornographers are incredible and so is Neko. My first NP album was Twin Cinema and I loved it. I just got Challengers a few weeks ago and it is also incredible.

Rooney's self titled was great, but this one stinks. I know they are signed to Geffen, they are just one of those "indie" bands. It's a new brand of sound, like "emo", only less annoying.

creepysusie · 02-09-2008, 10:16 PM

Have you seen the "Challengers" music video?
OMG! I just love Neko. And Dan Bejar is amazing in concert. I saw them when they were in vancouver. Usually when they tour, they do not all go together because there are 8 band members and are usually associated with other bands as well, but ALL 8 of them were there, and Dan was right in front of me (i was literally infront of the stage, i could touch his shoe) and he had a Stella Artois in one hand and a mic in the other. He radiates coolness.

Neko radiates sex.

thespian86 · 02-10-2008, 12:04 AM

Neko is for the NP what Leslie Fiest is for BSS. Both super sexy in a Lisa Loeb kind of way.

Martian · 02-10-2008, 12:20 AM

I've always considered indie to be more of a mentality than a genre. Technically to be indie all one has to do is release music not affiliated with the big four. Stylistically, much of the indie scene bears strong ties to pop music, which is why it isn't surprising that bands like Modest Mouse and Death Cab for Cutie did so well after they 'sold out.'

I reckon one can't really have an indie discussion without bringing up Pavement and Wilco. They're pretty much mandatory namedrops. Aside from that, I tend to enjoy most of the E6 and it's associated acts. The first indie band I ever heard was Of Montreal, and they will always hold a special place in my heart.

Derwood · 02-10-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I've always considered indie to be more of a mentality than a genre. Technically to be indie all one has to do is release music not affiliated with the big four. Stylistically, much of the indie scene bears strong ties to pop music, which is why it isn't surprising that bands like Modest Mouse and Death Cab for Cutie did so well after they 'sold out.'

i'm glad you put sold out in quotes, because they didnt' sell out at all

Martian · 02-10-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

i'm glad you put sold out in quotes, because they didnt' sell out at all

That was more in reference to hipsters than anything else. There's a strong contingent of the indie scene that believes that the instant a band jumps to one of the big four they lose any and all credibility. I have no love of the major labels, but at the same time I happen to think that Ben Gibbard has done some of his best work under Atlantic. Plans was a great album. Same goes for Modest Mouse (only with Epic instead of Atlantic, of course). The Moon and Antarctica and Good News for People Who Love Bad News were awesome.

It relates to indie cred, which is the indie version of pissing contests; basically, the more (and more obscure) bands you know, the more credibility you have in the scene. Thus people who are introduced to the Indie scene by bands like those (or even Arcade Fire, who are still technically indie but have gone more mainstream) are treated as inferior in some way.

I can bust out the indie cred. I can talk Dinosaur Jr and Neutral Milk Hotel and Mogwai. I just happen to think the whole thing is a gigantic load of crap.

And yeah, technically Mogwai is post-rock, but there comes a point where you're segregating music beyond all reason. Post-rock is largely indie.

vanblah · 02-11-2008, 10:33 AM

Anything that is labeled in any way (but usually by a press-release or review in a major magazine) will ultimately become a "genre." Let's see ... it was "garage rock" then "college rock" then "alternative rock" then "grunge" and so on. Yes, stylistically you might suppose that those forms are different but it's the social movement that is basically the same; music evolves and THANK GOD.

Why does this happen? Well, the majors are always finding bands and recording them and then shelving them. Then when a sound gets some attention, they will go through their catalog and release anything that sounds remotely like the same. Or they will "create" bands that sound the same, or bands will form on their own that sound like the first one. You see. It's been going on for decades.

As far as "lazy vocals and mismatched instruments"; what do you mean? Compared to what? Compared to big-budget releases? Yeah ... that's because most singers do multiple takes of the song and then an engineer comps those takes into one good one. Usually using "very nice" microphones and other "very nice" things in the signal path. The vocals takes are processed even further (either pre or post take) with other "very nice" equipment (as opposed to "plugins"). Typical "independent" artists don't spend as much time or money on those vocals.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "mismatched instruments." Again, big-budget releases have access to many, many different pieces of equipment (amps, guitars, effects boxes, etc.). Independent artists are lucky to have one good amp and one good guitar.

And let's not even start talking about the "space" that music is recorded in.

Of course, NONE OF THE ABOVE is a requirement for a killer record or band. If you've got good material and decent performers you can set up one microphone in the middle of a decent sounding room and have a record that people will respond to positively. I just wanted to illustrate a point about the difference between why some records sound great but have crappy music and other records may sound "lazy" but have great music.

To me "indie" has become a genre that is not necessarily indicative of the bands signed status. You can have an indie sound while being signed to a major. I have no problem with that ... you can't fight it anyway. "They" will always try to find a way to market the next big thing.

Does indie mean you can't use a studio or engineer to record a release? Does it mean you can only use up to a certain class of studio? Does it mean you're obscure? Unsigned? If it just means that you merely maintain control of your music and publishing then there are a lot of indie bands out there on major labels.

What indie bands do I like? I guess I'll plug my own band here: Chess Club. We recorded our first full-length in a major studio with a major engineer. We paid for it ourselves, we maintain control of our publishing and we're obscure and unsigned. I guess that makes us independent but our sound may not be "indie."

thespian86 · 02-11-2008, 04:38 PM

"Lazy vocals" wasn't a shot at the genre; the vocal style of the genre for the most part is sung with a stumbled croon. Most bands I listen to, who I think are incredible, have a front man/woman with this style. It's not the production value, it is a style choice. Emo has a whine, rock has a growl, country has the breaking in and out of falsetto, etc. An incredible Americana-esque rock band called The Hold Steady put out an amazing album last year called "Boys and Girls in America" and the lead singer sounds as if he is drunk and stumbling through the lyrics; it is a choice.

By mismatched instruments I am pointing at the often large groups of people playing instruments often unused in popular music. The album I plugged at the top of the post, Vampire Weekend, has the harpsichord, the marimba, steel drum, electric guitar, bass, piano, trumpet, several string instruments. They utilize a larger group of instruments that seem unlikely.

I am poking fun at a genre that got the "i don't get it" comment, until the OC played Death Cab and Bright Eyes; suddenly it was rad. I love the music I listen to and the music I make; I don't need your elitist attitude or your lecture on what is and what isn't or on the progression of popular music or the process in which large labels take advantage of it. I'm good.

And just for a clarification folks; I intended this thread to be a discussion of artists and albums, not the genre. I love and appreciate the direction it has taken but I find that most of the music in the "what was the last album you bought" or "what are you listening to right now" threads aren't really my thing.

Derwood · 02-11-2008, 08:37 PM

let's not forget that many "indie" labels are owned by or under an umbrella of distribution of one of the big four. At one point, Sub-Pop was under Interscope which was under Atlantic (i think), etc.

Martian · 02-11-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21

By mismatched instruments I am pointing at the often large groups of people playing instruments often unused in popular music. The album I plugged at the top of the post, Vampire Weekend, has the harpsichord, the marimba, steel drum, electric guitar, bass, piano, trumpet, several string instruments. They utilize a larger group of instruments that seem unlikely.

Another example of this would be Polyphonic Spree. I think they use every instrument known to man, and that's all on top of a ten person choir.

creepysusie · 02-11-2008, 09:37 PM

It is amazing how "Indie" became a genre refering to "what was played on the OC". And in terms of genre, i don't think you can really pin point it as a specific genre because it is about something different. It isn't about style, but about artist's creativity. I mean, if you compare the vocal workings of Sarah Slean, versus the Borat/punk style of Gogol Bordello (by the way, i totally recommend "Start Wearing Purple"), you cannot just assume "indie" as "mellow-y"

Yet, I have to agree with Punkmusicfan because I listen to the indie, not for snootiness, but rather the vocals and lyrics are so much deeper and richer than the pop-radio alternative. Sure, I will listen to the odd Shakira or Beyonce song, but listening to someone who is driven on talent, rather than looks, is so much more rewarding for my soul. I revel at Slean's version of "I'm your man" by Leonard Cohen and even The Magic Number's cover of "Crazy in Love" by Beyonce. There is a beauty in the reinvention of music that is absolutely amazing.

When a band can instill trumpets, accordians, a little toy keyboard or even bagpipes into an unexpected genre/style of music, I think that is the reinvention and adaptability of music.

Spritebox · 02-11-2008, 10:03 PM

broken social scene

Charlatan · 02-11-2008, 10:26 PM

You guys should check out CBC Radio 3. It is dedicated to playing independent Canadian music. There is a bit of a musical renaissance happening in Canada right now.

This thread alone named five Canadian independents: Broken Social Scene, Feist, The New Pornographers, Neko Case and Tokyo Police Club.

There's more where that came from: http://radio3.cbc.ca/

Joel Plaskett Emergency

Two Hours Traffic

Shout Out Out Out Out

Emily Haines & the Soft Skeleton

Arcade Fire

The Besnard Lakes

The Great Lake Swimmers

Abdominal

Tegan and Sara

The Weakerthans

Derwood · 02-12-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creepysusie

When a band can instill trumpets, accordians, a little toy keyboard or even bagpipes into an unexpected genre/style of music, I think that is the reinvention and adaptability of music.

would you consider White Stripes to be "indy" then?

vanblah · 02-12-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creepysusie

When a band can instill trumpets, accordians, a little toy keyboard or even bagpipes into an unexpected genre/style of music, I think that is the reinvention and adaptability of music.

Beatles?

roachboy · 02-12-2008, 10:45 AM

uh yeah...i dont know what this category means from a consumer viewpoint.
"indie" seems like "alternative" seems like "other"...
but if you're trying to get your own music out, the categories are useful in that they give you a space to work in order to get exposure.

same thing obtains for stranger music--when i think about "experimental" i dont think it designates anything--and this is supposed to me the genre i work in. best i can figure, it basically means "strange..."
which i suppose is better than "other" but not by much.

===
besides, bands like melt banana have been around for a while and are really quite cool and seem to have nothing in particular to do with "indie"--but hey, who really cares? they're a fine noisy band, tight as hell, and what difference does it make what people pretend they are or call them so long as more folk get to check them out?

o yeah--for fine lovely canadian bands, a couple additions to charlatan's list:

shalabi effect
le fly pan am

there are tons of them, tho. personally, i think the proliferation of canadian bands is in part about the fact that canada actually funds the arts.

hambone · 02-12-2008, 11:51 AM

I got some buddies in a band out of Oakland called DESA

Most of the members are from an older band called Link 80, so while the style of music if different, they have all been together for a long while and are really pretty tight, on recordings as well as live.

They are all stand up guys and fit the Indie genre I guess since they have stopped really going the CD route and are releasing small sets of 3 or 4 songs at a time for free on their website.

Check em out at their site or on MySpace:

<a href="http://www.desadesadesa.com" >DESA home</a>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/desa" >DESA MySpace</a>

Plan9 · 02-12-2008, 12:56 PM

Indie? You mean like...

King City is cartoon-funky.

Agent Ribbons appeals to my inner lesbian.

thespian86 · 02-12-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

You guys should check out CBC Radio 3. It is dedicated to playing independent Canadian music. There is a bit of a musical renaissance happening in Canada right now.

This thread alone named five Canadian independents: Broken Social Scene, Feist, The New Pornographers, Neko Case and Tokyo Police Club.

There's more where that came from: http://radio3.cbc.ca/

Joel Plaskett Emergency

I had drinks with Joel and the boys last saturday. They are boss. Joel sounds like he is constantly intoxicated/thinking of highly unlikely hypothetical situations on the spot every time he speaks; very fun. I also ended up eating breakfast next to Jimmy Rankin (of the rankin family) and waiting at the omelette bar with Jay Furguson of Sloan. We discussed the state of the egg to meat ratio at the brunch at length. And I touched Steve Page of BNL; then giggled at length... like a small girl. Then we talked about American politics; although I don't see how he could of taken me seriously. It was the single most amazing weekend of my life.

yeah...

filtherton · 02-12-2008, 05:48 PM

Charlatan you left out Buck 65. I think he used to have a regular spot on CBC Radio 3. He's dreeeeaaaaamy.

Also, I recommend The Goddamn Doo Wop Band.

Charlatan · 02-12-2008, 06:58 PM

punkmusicfan... so you were in Fredericton for the ECMA? Cool. Plaskett cleaned up winning 6 awards. His latest album Ashtray Rock is in heavy rotation on my iPod.

filthyone... I left Buck65 off the list but didn't forget him. He is now a regular DJ on CBC radio 3. He's very cool.

I just can't say enough good things about CBC Radio 3.

guyy · 02-12-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21

Leslie Fiest.

Way overplayed, and it doesn't stand up to that kind of re-re-re-reiteration.
Will be on commercial spots next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

there are tons of them, tho. personally, i think the proliferation of canadian bands is in part about the fact that canada actually funds the arts.

It's not just funding the arts, but stuff like the provincial health plans, and stuff like rent control in Quebec. You don't have to get an all-consuming job just to say, maintain your health. The CanCon laws probably help a little, too.

Charlatan · 02-12-2008, 09:35 PM

I don't know how much the cancon laws effect things anymore. The artists that roachboy is talking about and the independents don't get any airplay on mainstream radio to speak of...

Then again, almost all Canadian music, even mainstream, is generally considered independent.

thespian86 · 02-13-2008, 11:19 AM

I was born and raised in Freddy Beach. I've been home for a few months now and lived all week at the venues. Plaskett rocked house, to say the least. I've met him a few times before, he's a great guy. Incredible pop rock musician.

Charlatan · 02-14-2008, 04:50 PM

That just rocks... I was reading about the ECMAs on a few blogs and it sounds like it was a party royale...

Everyone needs to listen to some Joel Plaskett...

SecretMethod70 · 02-14-2008, 05:03 PM

I don't really like the term indie. It's used as a genre term, yet it says nothing about the music. Rather, it is a term defining the state of the band. So, if an indie band signs to a major label but keeps their sound, it's no longer appropriate to call them indie, but none of the other genre terms quite fit. Even if we wanted indie to be a term describing the sound, there is too wide a variety under the indie umbrella for that to be the case. I think it'd be good if we, in general, stuck to terms that attempted to describe the qualities of the music, rather than the status of the band.

And it's true, there's some great music coming out of Canada lately. A number of bands mentioned in this thread are bands I already listen to and enjoy:

Broken Social Scene
Feist
The New Pornographers
Neko Case
Emily Haines & the Soft Skeleton
Arcade Fire
The Besnard Lakes
Tegan and Sara

I don't think Metric has been mentioned, but I enjoy them quite a bit as well. (I could continue listing bands, but I'll stop there).

One of the more interesting aspects of all this Canadian music is how much of it actually centers around Broken Social Scene. A number of the other bands/people mentioned in this thread are related to Broken Social Scene through one or more connections.

Also, Polyphonic Spree was mentioned earlier in the thread and I should thow my support their way as well. Very enjoyable

creepysusie · 02-14-2008, 06:51 PM

Yeah, I definately agree that "indie" is a difficult term
I didn't know that about CBC 3, but i usually have my radio in my car tuned to Evolution 107.9. If you are in the Vancouver area, it is the BCIT campus radio. Generally, in terms of DJ's and students broadcasting, they kind of suck because they often stutter, have lisps, or broadcast the hourly news report incorrectly...
BUT...
they have a good variety of music that they play. And it has definately opened me up to some new bands that I didn't really know about (such as Bella)
Speaking of which, has anyone forgotten "The Postal Service"?

SecretMethod70 · 02-14-2008, 07:59 PM

ah yes, The Postal Service is good too

Martian · 02-14-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

ah yes, The Postal Service is good too

I like The Postal Service, but they're only pretending to be indie.

Death Cab for Cutie is signed to Atlantic, who sure as shit isn't going to let their talent produce under any other labels. So Ben Gibbard goes to Sub Pop to do the Postal Service. Suddenly he has indie cred again! Except, wait...

Warner owns half of Sub Pop. Warner owns all of Atlantic.

Hmm...

Charlatan · 02-14-2008, 09:27 PM

It's like "Rage Against the Machine"... Brought to you by Sony.

"Fuck you I won't do what ya told me."

Indeed.

creepysusie · 02-14-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I like The Postal Service, but they're only pretending to be indie.

Death Cab for Cutie is signed to Atlantic, who sure as shit isn't going to let their talent produce under any other labels. So Ben Gibbard goes to Sub Pop to do the Postal Service. Suddenly he has indie cred again! Except, wait...

Warner owns half of Sub Pop. Warner owns all of Atlantic.

Hmm...

Sure, we could all classify The Postal Service as "pretending to be indie" but if the music they produce is valid and good listening, should it really matter? Compared to the Mass Media shit (Paris Hilton is making another album... readies puke bucket), it should really be about the sound the artist makes, not necessarily the lable. If Sub Pop is giving them the artistic freedom that they seek, isn't that all that matters? If The Postal Service was really heavily mass produced and mediated, we would not be hearing what we hear from them.

Martian · 02-14-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creepysusie

Sure, we could all classify The Postal Service as "pretending to be indie" but if the music they produce is valid and good listening, should it really matter? Compared to the Mass Media shit (Paris Hilton is making another album... readies puke bucket), it should really be about the sound the artist makes, not necessarily the lable. If Sub Pop is giving them the artistic freedom that they seek, isn't that all that matters? If The Postal Service was really heavily mass produced and mediated, we would not be hearing what we hear from them.

Again, I like The Postal Service. I have issues with the way the big four do business (it's fucked up that Ben Gibbard can't produce music under whatever label he chooses; the movie industry did away with this concept of talent as property decades ago), but it doesn't impact the talents of the artists.

The Postal Service isn't heavily mass produced precisely because Warner doesn't think they'll sell on a large imprint. Instead of letting the consumer decide whether the music is worth listening to, Warner relegates them to a smaller subsidiary where they're guaranteed to get less exposure, in order to cater to hipster snobs who will only listen to music if it comes from an independent label (despite the fact that Sub Pop isn't independent at all). The whole system is ass-backwards and due for a shake-up, but I've ranted on that subject enough already. Suffice to say that it doesn't matter what label The Postal Service is on except to the label bosses who want to get as much money out of their talent as possible and to that particular subcategory of listeners who choose to make an issue out of it. My comment that The Postal Service is pretending to be indie was more a jab at that sort of listener than anything else, since a bit of research reveals that many of the biggest independent labels aren't really independent at all.

Sub Pop got bought because their music was selling. The entire Seattle grunge scene of the 90's started with Sub Pop before David Geffen came around and bought it. Mudhoney, Reverend Horton Heat, Smashing Pumpkins and Nirvana are a few of the bands that got their start there, back in the day when Sub Pop really was independent. This is why Warner now owns half the label, and that they do is a fact they don't advertise precisely because as long as that information isn't widely known they can continue to cater to the label snobs who wouldn't touch anything they produced under one of their larger imprints (ie Atlantic or Reprise).

The music industry is a fucked up place to be. I'm always amused by people who buy into the trends without even really understanding the bigger picture behind them. This does not, however, reflect on the artists in any way whatsoever.

'Nuff said?

Charlatan · 02-15-2008, 12:05 AM

This again underscores why using labels like Independent to decide music taste is problematic.

Like the music for what it is, not how it is marketed.

The same can be said for film... I know some film snob types that will only watch "arthouse" or "independent" films. They, sadly, will miss out on some excellent films.

roachboy · 02-15-2008, 04:23 AM

i thought this question (of what"indie" means, particularly with respect to the "majors") was posed when the folk from sonic youth did a tour as a&r reps for geffen a few years ago...and i suppose that sy would complicate this kind of discussion in a bunch of ways (what are they? who gets to say?)

personally, i think sy played the game in as intelligent a manner as any band i know of. they've been around for like 20 years, they've continued working on their own terms, they've got a definite sound they have developed, but its not static, they control their own fates, they can do as they like, they tour as they like, they are important patrons for a huge range of younger/otherwise more obscure bands.

and live, on a good night, they are still great.

are they an "indie" band?
yes
no
maybe
whocares.

are they actually independent, as artists, in the sense of being more or less autonomous in a context that does not enable that easily at all?

yes.

does independent then mean the same thing as "indie"?

of course not.

02-08-2008, 03:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	"indie" music. Usually means lazy sounding voices and mismatched instruments. Other times it is the "beginning of a movement". IMO indie is simply just another genre now, has very little to do with independence. I have to say a lot of "indie music" is very appealing to my ears and I often find myself scanning myspace looking for a new album to buy. So I'm wondering your favorite "indie" artists and albums. I bought a few this week and thought I'd share. Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend: Reminds me a lot of Paul Simon's Graceland, mixed with a little Police. Very interesting, even though they have a stupid name. Tokyo Police Club - Smith [EP]: I got this little gem walking out of the store. I can't find anything by TPC that I don't like. They are like a little musical pistol. Their first full length is coming soon and I'm looking forward to it very much. Rilo Kiley - Under The Black Light: Jenny Lewis' voice sounds like sex. It doesn't really scream Rilo Kiley rock but tastes more like Jenny Lewis' solo work last year with "rabbit fur coat". Very nice though. Rooney - Calling the world: Really disappointed with this one. Rooney's first album was my guilty little pleasure, had great SoCal harmonies and hooks. This is trying to be something, but I can't put my finger on it. One song sounds like a fucking Journey song for god sakes. I did like one song, simply becasue it reminds me of Tears For Fears titled "When did your heart go missing?". let me know. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

02-08-2008, 03:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	i like only one indy band really. The Pixies...yeah, yeah i know..its "cliché" (sp) __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

02-08-2008, 04:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	Rooney are signed to Geffen - a major label. I bought their self-titled album after seeing their video for "Blueside" a few years ago. Great band - how are their newer albums? A few of my favorite indie artists are: Melt Banana Cage Car Bomb Yak Ballz Saul Williams Aesop Rock (Seriously, click the damn links) __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian Last edited by Manic_Skafe; 02-08-2008 at 05:00 PM..

02-08-2008, 05:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	I thought melt banana was considered "noise" __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

02-09-2008, 05:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	The New Pornographers are incredible and so is Neko. My first NP album was Twin Cinema and I loved it. I just got Challengers a few weeks ago and it is also incredible. Rooney's self titled was great, but this one stinks. I know they are signed to Geffen, they are just one of those "indie" bands. It's a new brand of sound, like "emo", only less annoying. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

02-08-2008, 05:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bear Cub The Reverend Side Boob Location: Nofe Curolina	Hell yea, Aesop Rock FTMFW!

02-09-2008, 02:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
creepysusie Tilted	Two words: Neko Case Anything she is in is fantastical. Her participation in The New Pornographers earn them the title "super indie band" for good reason.

02-09-2008, 10:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
creepysusie Tilted	Have you seen the "Challengers" music video? OMG! I just love Neko. And Dan Bejar is amazing in concert. I saw them when they were in vancouver. Usually when they tour, they do not all go together because there are 8 band members and are usually associated with other bands as well, but ALL 8 of them were there, and Dan was right in front of me (i was literally infront of the stage, i could touch his shoe) and he had a Stella Artois in one hand and a mic in the other. He radiates coolness. Neko radiates sex.

02-10-2008, 12:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	Neko is for the NP what Leslie Fiest is for BSS. Both super sexy in a Lisa Loeb kind of way. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

02-10-2008, 12:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	I've always considered indie to be more of a mentality than a genre. Technically to be indie all one has to do is release music not affiliated with the big four. Stylistically, much of the indie scene bears strong ties to pop music, which is why it isn't surprising that bands like Modest Mouse and Death Cab for Cutie did so well after they 'sold out.' I reckon one can't really have an indie discussion without bringing up Pavement and Wilco. They're pretty much mandatory namedrops. Aside from that, I tend to enjoy most of the E6 and it's associated acts. The first indie band I ever heard was Of Montreal, and they will always hold a special place in my heart. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

02-11-2008, 10:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	Anything that is labeled in any way (but usually by a press-release or review in a major magazine) will ultimately become a "genre." Let's see ... it was "garage rock" then "college rock" then "alternative rock" then "grunge" and so on. Yes, stylistically you might suppose that those forms are different but it's the social movement that is basically the same; music evolves and THANK GOD. Why does this happen? Well, the majors are always finding bands and recording them and then shelving them. Then when a sound gets some attention, they will go through their catalog and release anything that sounds remotely like the same. Or they will "create" bands that sound the same, or bands will form on their own that sound like the first one. You see. It's been going on for decades. As far as "lazy vocals and mismatched instruments"; what do you mean? Compared to what? Compared to big-budget releases? Yeah ... that's because most singers do multiple takes of the song and then an engineer comps those takes into one good one. Usually using "very nice" microphones and other "very nice" things in the signal path. The vocals takes are processed even further (either pre or post take) with other "very nice" equipment (as opposed to "plugins"). Typical "independent" artists don't spend as much time or money on those vocals. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "mismatched instruments." Again, big-budget releases have access to many, many different pieces of equipment (amps, guitars, effects boxes, etc.). Independent artists are lucky to have one good amp and one good guitar. And let's not even start talking about the "space" that music is recorded in. Of course, NONE OF THE ABOVE is a requirement for a killer record or band. If you've got good material and decent performers you can set up one microphone in the middle of a decent sounding room and have a record that people will respond to positively. I just wanted to illustrate a point about the difference between why some records sound great but have crappy music and other records may sound "lazy" but have great music. To me "indie" has become a genre that is not necessarily indicative of the bands signed status. You can have an indie sound while being signed to a major. I have no problem with that ... you can't fight it anyway. "They" will always try to find a way to market the next big thing. Does indie mean you can't use a studio or engineer to record a release? Does it mean you can only use up to a certain class of studio? Does it mean you're obscure? Unsigned? If it just means that you merely maintain control of your music and publishing then there are a lot of indie bands out there on major labels. What indie bands do I like? I guess I'll plug my own band here: Chess Club. We recorded our first full-length in a major studio with a major engineer. We paid for it ourselves, we maintain control of our publishing and we're obscure and unsigned. I guess that makes us independent but our sound may not be "indie."

02-11-2008, 04:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	"Lazy vocals" wasn't a shot at the genre; the vocal style of the genre for the most part is sung with a stumbled croon. Most bands I listen to, who I think are incredible, have a front man/woman with this style. It's not the production value, it is a style choice. Emo has a whine, rock has a growl, country has the breaking in and out of falsetto, etc. An incredible Americana-esque rock band called The Hold Steady put out an amazing album last year called "Boys and Girls in America" and the lead singer sounds as if he is drunk and stumbling through the lyrics; it is a choice. By mismatched instruments I am pointing at the often large groups of people playing instruments often unused in popular music. The album I plugged at the top of the post, Vampire Weekend, has the harpsichord, the marimba, steel drum, electric guitar, bass, piano, trumpet, several string instruments. They utilize a larger group of instruments that seem unlikely. I am poking fun at a genre that got the "i don't get it" comment, until the OC played Death Cab and Bright Eyes; suddenly it was rad. I love the music I listen to and the music I make; I don't need your elitist attitude or your lecture on what is and what isn't or on the progression of popular music or the process in which large labels take advantage of it. I'm good. And just for a clarification folks; I intended this thread to be a discussion of artists and albums, not the genre. I love and appreciate the direction it has taken but I find that most of the music in the "what was the last album you bought" or "what are you listening to right now" threads aren't really my thing. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

02-11-2008, 08:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	let's not forget that many "indie" labels are owned by or under an umbrella of distribution of one of the big four. At one point, Sub-Pop was under Interscope which was under Atlantic (i think), etc.

02-11-2008, 09:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
creepysusie Tilted	It is amazing how "Indie" became a genre refering to "what was played on the OC". And in terms of genre, i don't think you can really pin point it as a specific genre because it is about something different. It isn't about style, but about artist's creativity. I mean, if you compare the vocal workings of Sarah Slean, versus the Borat/punk style of Gogol Bordello (by the way, i totally recommend "Start Wearing Purple"), you cannot just assume "indie" as "mellow-y" Yet, I have to agree with Punkmusicfan because I listen to the indie, not for snootiness, but rather the vocals and lyrics are so much deeper and richer than the pop-radio alternative. Sure, I will listen to the odd Shakira or Beyonce song, but listening to someone who is driven on talent, rather than looks, is so much more rewarding for my soul. I revel at Slean's version of "I'm your man" by Leonard Cohen and even The Magic Number's cover of "Crazy in Love" by Beyonce. There is a beauty in the reinvention of music that is absolutely amazing. When a band can instill trumpets, accordians, a little toy keyboard or even bagpipes into an unexpected genre/style of music, I think that is the reinvention and adaptability of music.

02-11-2008, 10:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
Spritebox Insane Location: Charlotte, N.C.	broken social scene __________________ it's all nice on ice alright and it's not day and it's not night but it's all nice on ice alright

02-11-2008, 10:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	You guys should check out CBC Radio 3. It is dedicated to playing independent Canadian music. There is a bit of a musical renaissance happening in Canada right now. This thread alone named five Canadian independents: Broken Social Scene, Feist, The New Pornographers, Neko Case and Tokyo Police Club. There's more where that came from: http://radio3.cbc.ca/ Joel Plaskett Emergency Two Hours Traffic Shout Out Out Out Out Emily Haines & the Soft Skeleton Arcade Fire The Besnard Lakes The Great Lake Swimmers Abdominal Tegan and Sara The Weakerthans __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-12-2008, 10:45 AM	#22 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	uh yeah...i dont know what this category means from a consumer viewpoint. "indie" seems like "alternative" seems like "other"... but if you're trying to get your own music out, the categories are useful in that they give you a space to work in order to get exposure. same thing obtains for stranger music--when i think about "experimental" i dont think it designates anything--and this is supposed to me the genre i work in. best i can figure, it basically means "strange..." which i suppose is better than "other" but not by much. === besides, bands like melt banana have been around for a while and are really quite cool and seem to have nothing in particular to do with "indie"--but hey, who really cares? they're a fine noisy band, tight as hell, and what difference does it make what people pretend they are or call them so long as more folk get to check them out? o yeah--for fine lovely canadian bands, a couple additions to charlatan's list: shalabi effect le fly pan am there are tons of them, tho. personally, i think the proliferation of canadian bands is in part about the fact that canada actually funds the arts. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 02-12-2008 at 10:47 AM..

02-12-2008, 11:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
hambone Zeroed In Location: CA	I got some buddies in a band out of Oakland called DESA Most of the members are from an older band called Link 80, so while the style of music if different, they have all been together for a long while and are really pretty tight, on recordings as well as live. They are all stand up guys and fit the Indie genre I guess since they have stopped really going the CD route and are releasing small sets of 3 or 4 songs at a time for free on their website. Check em out at their site or on MySpace: <a href="http://www.desadesadesa.com" >DESA home</a> <a href="http://www.myspace.com/desa" >DESA MySpace</a> __________________ "Like liquid white from fallen glass, Nothing to cry over"

02-12-2008, 12:56 PM	#24 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Indie? You mean like... King City is cartoon-funky. Agent Ribbons appeals to my inner lesbian. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

02-12-2008, 05:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Charlatan you left out Buck 65. I think he used to have a regular spot on CBC Radio 3. He's dreeeeaaaaamy. Also, I recommend The Goddamn Doo Wop Band. Last edited by filtherton; 02-12-2008 at 05:55 PM..

02-12-2008, 06:58 PM	#27 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	punkmusicfan... so you were in Fredericton for the ECMA? Cool. Plaskett cleaned up winning 6 awards. His latest album Ashtray Rock is in heavy rotation on my iPod. filthyone... I left Buck65 off the list but didn't forget him. He is now a regular DJ on CBC radio 3. He's very cool. I just can't say enough good things about CBC Radio 3. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-12-2008, 09:35 PM	#29 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't know how much the cancon laws effect things anymore. The artists that roachboy is talking about and the independents don't get any airplay on mainstream radio to speak of... Then again, almost all Canadian music, even mainstream, is generally considered independent. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-13-2008, 11:19 AM	#30 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	I was born and raised in Freddy Beach. I've been home for a few months now and lived all week at the venues. Plaskett rocked house, to say the least. I've met him a few times before, he's a great guy. Incredible pop rock musician. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

02-14-2008, 04:50 PM	#31 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	That just rocks... I was reading about the ECMAs on a few blogs and it sounds like it was a party royale... Everyone needs to listen to some Joel Plaskett... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-14-2008, 05:03 PM	#32 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	I don't really like the term indie. It's used as a genre term, yet it says nothing about the music. Rather, it is a term defining the state of the band. So, if an indie band signs to a major label but keeps their sound, it's no longer appropriate to call them indie, but none of the other genre terms quite fit. Even if we wanted indie to be a term describing the sound, there is too wide a variety under the indie umbrella for that to be the case. I think it'd be good if we, in general, stuck to terms that attempted to describe the qualities of the music, rather than the status of the band. And it's true, there's some great music coming out of Canada lately. A number of bands mentioned in this thread are bands I already listen to and enjoy: Broken Social Scene Feist The New Pornographers Neko Case Emily Haines & the Soft Skeleton Arcade Fire The Besnard Lakes Tegan and Sara I don't think Metric has been mentioned, but I enjoy them quite a bit as well. (I could continue listing bands, but I'll stop there). One of the more interesting aspects of all this Canadian music is how much of it actually centers around Broken Social Scene. A number of the other bands/people mentioned in this thread are related to Broken Social Scene through one or more connections. Also, Polyphonic Spree was mentioned earlier in the thread and I should thow my support their way as well. Very enjoyable __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 02-14-2008 at 08:24 PM..

02-14-2008, 06:51 PM	#33 (permalink)
creepysusie Tilted	Yeah, I definately agree that "indie" is a difficult term I didn't know that about CBC 3, but i usually have my radio in my car tuned to Evolution 107.9. If you are in the Vancouver area, it is the BCIT campus radio. Generally, in terms of DJ's and students broadcasting, they kind of suck because they often stutter, have lisps, or broadcast the hourly news report incorrectly... BUT... they have a good variety of music that they play. And it has definately opened me up to some new bands that I didn't really know about (such as Bella) Speaking of which, has anyone forgotten "The Postal Service"?

02-14-2008, 07:59 PM	#34 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	ah yes, The Postal Service is good too __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

02-14-2008, 09:27 PM	#36 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It's like "Rage Against the Machine"... Brought to you by Sony. "Fuck you I won't do what ya told me." Indeed. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-15-2008, 12:05 AM	#39 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	This again underscores why using labels like Independent to decide music taste is problematic. Like the music for what it is, not how it is marketed. The same can be said for film... I know some film snob types that will only watch "arthouse" or "independent" films. They, sadly, will miss out on some excellent films. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-15-2008, 04:23 AM	#40 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i thought this question (of what"indie" means, particularly with respect to the "majors") was posed when the folk from sonic youth did a tour as a&r reps for geffen a few years ago...and i suppose that sy would complicate this kind of discussion in a bunch of ways (what are they? who gets to say?) personally, i think sy played the game in as intelligent a manner as any band i know of. they've been around for like 20 years, they've continued working on their own terms, they've got a definite sound they have developed, but its not static, they control their own fates, they can do as they like, they tour as they like, they are important patrons for a huge range of younger/otherwise more obscure bands. and live, on a good night, they are still great. are they an "indie" band? yes no maybe whocares. are they actually independent, as artists, in the sense of being more or less autonomous in a context that does not enable that easily at all? yes. does independent then mean the same thing as "indie"? of course not. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 02-15-2008 at 04:26 AM..