RatherThanWords

Anti-Flag should redo their song. Will the punk ideaology ever again regain it's credibility?

Please someone give me some positive news, other than the fact that the good punk bands are still producing strong and not changing (NOFX's War on Errorism, Good Riddance's Bound by Ties..., and the New TSM)

chainsawred

If the "scene" is so weak it can be destroyed by a teenage girl, then its on its last legs anyway dontcha think?

sdkh

Maybe you're just not looking in the right places. Don't go for the big name dudes. The other day I saw some shit wearing a casualties shirt and then had NOFX, MxPx and NFG patches on his shitty shorts. and this other bitch I saw was wearing her emo-capris... you know, where they're tight but rolled up at the bottom and wearing something like saucony shoes or something lame. and a bandana and dyed black hair.
listen to raised fist. or rise against. against all authority could work too. raised fist is like a train wreck of fucking hardcore awesomeness dude. I'm not punk but i love the punk thing. i have a strong respect for it.

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Mojo_PeiPei

DIdn't the whole "punk" movement sorta die off when all these shitty emo bands tried to identify with them?

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BulletBob

How can she destroy something she isn't a part of? The fact that you think she sings punk rock is what bothers me.

KillerYoda

Anti-Flag are Americans, yet sing like they're British. Anti-Flag were on Warped Tour a few years back, along with Good Charlotte and a few other bands we love so much. Anti-flag is usually classified as being "punk revival." You "revive" dead people. The punk scene is dead, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you.

In the past I've jokingly referred to Avril as being the anti-Christ, but punk was long-dead and rotting by the time she came around. Did you forget Blink-182? Or SR-71? Or Green Day? Or Blondie doing fucking disco songs?

Emo didn't kill the punk scene, nor did selling out, <i>realization</i> killed punk. People realize eventually that the punk lifestyle is trivial, pointless, and very normal nowadays, so they quit. Henry Rollins and Jello Biafra became public speakers. "Blitzkrieg Bop" is being played in Verizon commericials. MXPX were in a Pepsi commercial. Bands are changing. AFI used to be a hardcore punk band, now they have near-emo songs being played on MTV.

There is still some good music out there, most of it has already been recorded, though. But the scene is dead and it's time to stop mourning.

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"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

shinji

for a genre built on change, punk rock doesn't do a lot of it. "credibility" is gained by a reactionary fear of musical change.

three reasons punk rock isn't dead musically, if not socially:
fugazi
the blood brothers
the mars volta

i'm sure you can name more. whether punk rock is dead or alive doesn't matter.

Derwood

Good Charlotte sucks so much i can't even stand it. They have sucked up to MTV so badly that they probably all have carson daley tattoos on their asses

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RatherThanWords

It's not that the scene was weak by any stretch of the imagination. It's just overrun by people who don't deserve to be part of the culture simply because of their ideaology. She's destroying everything punk was founded on by bringing it to the mainstream, and then downplaying it like some kind of fashion. Good Charlotte is simply following suit.

I don't think she has an ounce of punk in her, but if you ask Teen People or any other mainstream magazine, their making her out to be more punk than Brett Guerwitz (sp?). The fact that society places her in that category is simply enough.

Of course you still have your AAA's, Raised Fist's, Propagandhi's, BigWig's, etc., but now you have little girls in Avril T-Shirts going to Warped to to pretend to like them. I think it needs to stop, and one of those magazines needs to denounce her as just another pop-culture pawn used to make money.

alterEGO

Avril is popish rock. Doesnt go well together but she sure isn't punk or anything..


*sigh* rebel teenagers.

Glory's Sun

my thoughts exactly. She isn't even close to punk. The punk scene has be "dead" for a while now. What your seeing now isn't punk it's commercial marketing. Avril heads up the commercial faction cuz she's a a commercial pawn and thinks that she's being original, when in fact, she's boring and a waste of skin.

golrien

(a) She's not punk, she even says herself she's not punk
(b) The punk scene is alive and kicking - NOFX, Less Than Jake.. lots of good punk albums released so far this year.

Radio Monk33

It sickens me to think that the punk community is so elitest. They think that to be punk you have to listen to Propaghandi, The Casualties, and Against All Authority and so on. You don't have to have a mohawk or wear a jeanjacket to be punk. I'm tired of the so-called true punks that insist that they're so hardcore and how everyone's trying to ruin their culture.

I'm no lover of Avril or Simple Plan or other pop-punk type bands. But I see no harm in the blending of lines. Maybe they'll start listening to the Ataris or MxPX after that. Is it that bad to have more people experimenting and listening to a new type of music? As far as I'm concerned, I think getting more people interested is a good thing.

Unless some people are too afraid that it'll go too mainstream...and then they'll have to act preppy to show that they're different and against authority...

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"Punk rock had this cool, political personal message. It was a bit more cerebral than just stupid cock rock, you know"
-Kurt Cobain

KillerYoda

You obviously have never dealt with the "jock backlash" at any shows ever.

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pts

My first post was going to be something along these lines, but you beat me to it.

Dick.

cheese

im not what you would concider "punk" buy any streach of the imagination. But i did go to ALOT of punk shows in HS at the local club.

{rant}
anyway i think people dont relise that this is another example of how record companys make money, find whats new and alot of kids are getiing into And give the ppl record deals. Now with massive exposure the Craze of what ever music it is goes national. THEN it becomes Preverted By more record companys bastardising and cranking out new acts just to make a few more bilion dollars.

This trnd can be seen in MANY styles of music, Punk,techno(and i use the term loosly), Metal, Disco. BLah Blah Blah.

what i dont get is How a "scean" becomes dead by going "mainstream" I know of presios few Unsinged bands living in a burnt out warehouse who DONT want to go mainstream make millons of dollars and retire at 20.

this brings me to another point, Wehy do people say "ohh i like so and so when they were underground you know before they were mainstream", NOw if i got this right, YOU HLEPED MAKE THEM MAINSTREAM! If you werent a fan when the were "underground" they would have NEVER gotten a deal.

so anyway
{/rant}

Briz9

This all sounds retarded. Punk isn't how you dress. Punk isn't a "scene". What the fuck is "punk" anyway? Just listen to the music you like, and let others listen to music that they like. Get over it.

gibber71

O.K. people,leave the poor girl alone and let her do her thing.If she's as bad as people think, why not wait to see what her next record is like.If she turns into Alanis Morrisette,then flame away.Alanis who?,...

H12

I like Avril, I really do (I like her three singles, and nearly bought her CD)...but even I, who's not all that exposed to punk music, could have told ya she's just another marketing ploy and not real.

Avril is Britney Spears with a Canadian origin and different genre.

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LittleOralAnnie

I'm not big on Avril myself, she's definitely not punk either. Too much play on the radio is going to be what kills her career, like so many others.

Fade

The punk scene has not died but rather has changed and even split. The ramones and sex pistols all had a different sound than what might be labeled punk today, suck as anti-flag and against all authority. Another problem is the fans. Guys, just because a band succeded does not mean that they lose "punkness" or whatever... it does not mean that they had to sell out either. Blink-182, in my mind, is as punk as nofx. Sum 41, however, is alternative, which is essentially a class inbetween the styles of elvis and marilyn manson(yeah, wide gap). Now, will someone explain to me why the hell stuff would be labeled "gothic"?

WhoaitsZ

punks will never die until all human beings are destroyed.

i speak of true punks. social outcats, kids or adults who willingly go against popular opinion.

the musical punks are simply icing on the cake and no, they are not dead.

anvril is not punk. anvril is anvril and she's pop.

but remember... when you all say and agree that one thing is punk and the other is not you are making them punk.

comon guys, i know you can think better.

n1ck31

She can't destroy it she was never part of it.

XenuHubbard

In a way - who cares?

I grew up on punk and hardcore, and it wasn't as if my cd's suddenly spontaniously self-combusted the first time I saw Avril on MTV.

And the "he-she-it-them killed punk" has been heard for 20 years now. Don't worry about it. Go buy a Hellcat compilation. You're bound to find something on it that tells you otherwise.

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Troublebot

Years ago, I went on a bus tour in Ireland and one night they had a "pub tour." This means they rented out the local pub, kicked out all the locals and made sure each tourist got a pint, some chips and a few good old Irish tunes for their 20 buck. The tourists were happy as clams.

Did they have a real experience of the pub? Nope. Did they understand what the pub was usually like? Not really. But they got to act like they did.

I think this is how the public views Avril. Do they experience actual punk music with Avril? Nope. Do they understand what punk actually is? Not really. But with avril, they get to act like they do.

Does Avril promote this idea of her being punk? No, but she doesn't do much to dispell it either. For some reason, the public sees her in a tie, flipping people off and they label it punk. I call it annoying 12-year-old behavior, but to each his own.

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Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

h2ogo69

emo and power po are 2 very different things

h2ogo69

emo and power pop are 2 very different things

h2ogo69

emo and power pop are 2 very different things

h2ogo69

emo and power pop are 2 very different things

h2ogo69

emo and power pop are 2 very different things

h2ogo69

wow that was fucked up sorry about posting amillion times my comp was beign gay

emopwr

rofl. yeah she destroyed it good.

RatherThanWords

That had to be the most moronic thing I have ever heard Briz, and for it you should be drug out into the street and shot in the spine, not so you die, just so you can't walk, and your throat should be cut out so you can never speak again. I never said anything about the way someone dresses, or the music at all. I was speaking strictly from an IDEAOLOGICAL POINT OF VIEW.

Punk is about social change and representation of the little voices. It's about nothing more than that. It can never be commercial because of the fallacy that lies with in. Punk cannot be commercial for the fact that that's what it is against, the commercialization and catering to the majority. Punk isn't about the music at all, it's about a way of life. It's not dead, because as long as there are humans in existance, there will be an underrepresented group. The stereotypical punk style may no longer fit the mold, but there is still a group out there.

This, in my opinion, is the quote of the year (actually post of the year.) I'll leave with it.

Thanks everyone!

YaWhateva

I totally agree, I like punk music, but i think people who try to be punk are just sad. I dont think making a life change based on music is a good thing at all.

I really like Anti-Flag, NOFX, the Misfits, MXPX, Rancid, and the Ataris. But I personally hate Avril Lavigne and emo but thats just my taste in music. Avril Lavigne's music is not punk though.

But, i can also see your point, RatherThanWords. I think what was meant though is that Avril killed the punk music scene. AT least thats what i got out of it. I have respect for people who want to question what they were brought up with but i cant stand people who do shit just to be trendy, like i have seen a lot of "punk" people do.

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Launchpad

The punk scene will never die. However, it will change. Evolve. Definitely.

The look has become more mainstream than legitimate punk music. Green Day and the rest brought the punk vibe to the malls a long time ago. Avril Lavigne just put lip gloss and a man's tie on it. No worries. Punk shall survive the malls and continue to fester in the gutters.

boris

avril is not even close to punk. i agree with briz9. punk is the sex pistols and the ramones. punk is the late seventies. everything else is something else. the closet reason that avril is punk is that she really fucking sucks live! she can't sing on key! she is merely a product and now is exposed.

itchy93

Okay, I know I say this, like, all the time, but to me, punk is sincerity. Simple as that. Whether it's political, romantic, or novel, punk is (typically) young artists writing music out of passion, of desire to articulate their thoughts into music.

It does bother me that "punk" bands go mainstream, and so many bands that I thought would never cater to the mainstream do. To name a few, here we go (you may not have heard of a few of them yet, but give it a few months): The Ataris, Plain White T's, The Matches, Alkaline Trio, The Get Up Kids (specifically, their side project, Reggie and the Full Effect), Finch, Home Grown, Mae, Rufio, Saves the Day, and The Juliana Theory. And it's very disillusioning, because I always thought these bands were true about their semi-genre (some aren't <i>punk</i> punk); punk is not about mainstream-- in fact, it's supposed to be about not being mainstream.

There are plenty of bands that get plenty big without going mainstream: Lagwagon, No Use for a Name, No Motiv, Midtown, Hot Rod Circuit, and more.

I honestly don't know what modern "punk" to appreciate anymore; I guess I'll have to find a band, wait three years, and if they don't go mainstream, say that I like them. And that's not to say that good bands don't deserve airplay: I wholeheartedly believe they do. The difference is that most of these bands changed their sound to have that distinct radio-friendly sound, watered-down their lyrics, and recieved massive corporate promotion. I believe every good band deserves to be rich.

Itchy93 (formerly Itchy92 until I was banned for no apparent reason)

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philzilla

what a lame thread. it just goes to show, how much people misuse words (ie: punk)

Sex Pistols = punk
999 = punk
avril != punk

if she suddenly starts playing guitar, are you going to call her Metal?

if you insist on labelling bands, then at least do it properly; don't insult other people with your naivety

darksparkles

avril never even entered the punk scene to ruin it.

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ShtE Luck

I'm with most people, how could a mainstream artist from the start ever be part of the 'scene'? Are you refering to all those little girls wearing ties?