Zs- Nobody Wants To Be Had
Cephalic Carnage - Lucid Interval
Pig Destroyer - Junkyard God
Ulver - The Future Sound Of Music
Carbomb - Cielo Drive
Psyopus - Whore Meet Liar
Daughters - And Then The C.H.U.D.S. Came
Cryptopsy - In The Kingdom Where Everything Dies, Even The Sky Is Mortal
Infidel?/Castro! - The Onset Of Life
Melt-Banana - Spathic!!

I really agonized over my answer to this... Here goes:

Nighthawks at the Diner, Tom Waits
Walk on the Wild Side, Lou Reed
Don't Let it Bring you Down, Annie Lennox's cover of the Neil Young song
Wicked Game, Chris Isaac
Save Me, Aimee Mann
In the Colosseum, Tom Waits
Little Wing, SRV's cover of the Hendrix tune
Separation, Robert Miles
Mona Lisa Overdrive, Juno Reactor
Imagine, John Lennon

What the hell?
My list deserves derision simply because it doesn't contain anything that was put out a week ago?

Stop me before I kill again...


Rollins Band - Liar
Elton John - Rocket Man
Depeche Mode - People Are People
New Order - Blue Monday
Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi's Dead
INXS - Devil Inside
Bad Religion - Sorrow
Jimmy Eat World -The Middle
Pennywise - Alien
face to face - I Won't Lie Down

We should think about marketing these lists for profit, whaddaya say, huh? :D I kid because I love

Gee, aren't we a bit hostile over individual choices....
40% of yours are moldy oldies as well...not to throw stones, but...
We all know the lists are subjective, although several tunes keep popping up, most notably Imagine by John Lennon and Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen.
Music is many things to many people. It invokes memories, creates moods, soothes nerves and even can help kids study and concentrate better on schoolwork.
Don't be hatin....

I'm sorry... It's not my fault that I'm a music snob.


Oh wait... It is.

I'm not hatin'....I just have a pet peeve about people whose essentially stop listening to new music at a certain point in their lives. To each his own, but I hope to discovering new bands when I'm 93

Who ever said that I stopped listening to "new bands"? Perhaps...just perhaps...I just don't see anything that's offered up on the buffet table that can even come close to the Steve Miller Band, Jefferson Airplane, the Eagles, Styx or Queen. Who do you have today, that can stand up to Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, or even Patty, Maxine and Laverne? Pop culture just doesn't hold any interest for me, and I've seen enough flash, in enough pans, back in the 80's, to last me a lifetime. So, it's not that I stopped listening to the newer stuff. There is a lot of good stuff out there. Just not great stuff. I just don't see that much, if any of it, will stand up to time.

Truth.
A lot of the stuff I listen to is the same stuff my 15 year olds listen to; by the same token, what they're discovering now was new to me 20-30 years ago. My son listens to The Beatles, my daughter to Billy Idol, among others. And I've noticed a lot of covers of 70's and 80's rock-they can't compare to the originals, but they're becoming pretty common. But, 20-30 years from now, will bands be doing new versions of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" or the latest 50 Cents? Kinda doubt it...The most covered song in music history, by the way? "Yesterday".

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree here. I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Popular music has changed a lot since the '80s. It has become greatly diversified in that there are far more genre offshoots today than there were even ten years ago. Given this new environment, it is unfair and even unsatisfying to compare today's music to the likes of Steve Miller Band or The Beatles (the latter of which I am a huge, rabid fan). Rock bands of the past, in particular, were operating out of a purer environment; they are closer to their roots of blues and R&B than bands of today.

What you get today is a type of rock that is further evolved and influenced by even more sources. A great example of this is Radiohead, a rock band whose influences are heavily derived from classical music, jazz, and electronica. Their sound is unique (in spite of obvious but sloppy copying by others) and continues to evolve. Their artistic, non-commercial approach to music ended up being commercial... some how.... Consider Kid A: it debuted at number one in many areas worldwide despite its experimental, unconventional approach. And to this day, that album has been covered extensively by various types of musicians, including classical and jazz. I really could go on to solidify my argument, but I don't feel it's necessary, as Radiohead's legacy looks to be a certainty already, and said legacy reaches back even before Kid A to the brilliant albums OK Computer and The Bends.

I agree that there won't likely be covers of many songs being produced today, but let's not rule out the few who truly are producing what I would call nothing less than aesthetically pleasing. Radiohead is just one example and shouldn't be overlooked.

I'd have to say it's more about the change in the business side of things, i.e. the blatant commerciallism that runs rampant through the industry. Prior to the 80's, a talented band could make 2 or 3 low selling albums before hitting its stride, without having to worry about the label dumping it. Nowadays, if your first album does not at least go gold, you get dumped for the next flavor of the month.


For me, I still thrill to the experience of hearing a great new song. However, there's SO much out there, and so many ways for new stuff to reach an audience, that I just don't have the time to listen to much new stuff. I don't have time to wade through the dreck to get to the goodies. (I've always maintained that in any sort of artistic endeavor, 90% of it will be junk.) As a result, I rarely hear anything new that interests me much. The last two songs that really sparked my interest were Kryptonite from Three Doors Down and DOA from the Foo Fighters.

Oh, and Radiohead bores me to tears. To me, they sould like rehashed Pink Floyd/Emerson, Lake & Palmer/Yes/etc, minus any soul or emotion.

Chacun à son goût. You really think they sound like that? It seems you haven't listened to them widely enough, especially if you haven't found any emotion in the music. Many of their songs are strikingly emotional and reflective of the time we live in. Perhaps the music isn't as accessible as some of the more mainstream music, but I enjoy its complexity and subtlety.

But I agree that the business model has had an effect on a lot of talent, which is sad, but let's not let it keep us from finding things to enjoy. There are many ways to cut through the fluff and get to what you want. Many Internet technologies and presences are wonderful for helping you do so.

well, I've listened to Ok Computer and Kid A in their entirety. as I said, bored me to tears...

Was that because you couldn't dance to them?

no...I don't dance much...only when I'm really drunk.

just got nothing from them

Which points to the notion that music is both subjective and generational. In my list, I included a song from C.1963. I barely remember it as a new tune because I was 8 or 9 when it was released. Of course, unless you listen to an oldies station or your parents listened to music of the 50's and 60's, you wouldn't know it from Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star. But, at the time it came out, 'girl groups' invaded the rock scene of the time with catchy dance tunes that rivaled anything the 'boys' could put out and there were probably more of them than boy bands.
Of course, music evolves; the Beatles were influenced by what came out before them as much as any group is influenced by the Beatles now-that's a given.
For every person that thinks Radiohead is terrific, another will think it sucks; but, with something like this list thread, certain 'classic' rock tunes continue to come up because they transcend the generational pull and continue to influence those who come after.
Just as you couldn't possibly understand the phenomenon and the utter maddening enthusiasm that greeted the Beatles because it happened 12 years before your birth, there will be kids that won't understand what the fuss was about with Nirvana or even Radiohead and therefore not feel that same influence quite the same way. That's just the nature of music's evolution and why the 'perfect song' doesn't really exist unchallenged.

A very good point to consider, ngdawg! :thumbsup:

To you all that are fighting about what it is to call something perfect...



Thanks for ruining the thread.


Be quiet now.

Yet another good point to consider. :D

Shall we recommence?

----------------------

Al Green - Look What You Done to Me
The Temptations - All I Need
Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
Pink Floyd - Another Brick In the Wall
Megadeth - Dawn Patrol
Dliated Peoples - This Way
Yoko Kanno - Words That We Couldn't Say
George Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue
Elvis Presley - Blue Suede Shoes
Kate Bush - The Sensual World

-----------------------

Fair enough.

Most art is, and for good reason. I am sure that in the Beatles' time, there were many who thought they were ruining R&B, just as many are resistant to the kind of thing Radiohead does. Yet, all things considered, both of these groups have been lauded as groundbreaking. My liking both the Beatles and Radiohead is no coincidence. I like art that departs from convention while still tapping into the human experience. This is why I also like William Shakespeare and Marcel Duchamp.

Taking Radiohead into consideration, they are very conscious of musical forms and interpreting the lives we live. I can't expect art to do anything more. Not everyone likes Duchamp, but his work speaks volumes to our experiences of the 20th century. I'm not surprised that not everyone likes Radiohead. To assume that everyone needs to is nonsense. The bottom line: Art isn't a popularity contest.

wk complains because a conversation breaks out?
what's the matter?



there's a strange effect of living inside a mountain of music: release dates aren't terribly important. what is new is maybe only new for you. maybe you are crossing genres. maybe something was reissued recently and you didnt know it existed before...at the moment, i am listening to jimmy guiffre's 1962 record "free fall" with paul bley and steve swallow. it's been around, vaguely, for a long time: i just picked it up yesterday (it's a great record, btw...you can hear where someone like john carter picked up from.) i dont know if this is a "perfect" record because it isnt pop. it is an extremely disciplined recording: lots of space, lots of concentration. it's hard to say if the question of whether you would "add anything" while listening means anything.
i dont think it does.

this is a studio performance. on this particular day, during the period the decks were recording, these gentlemen hit a rarified space. but there is no particular easy melody--there are elements being set up, inverted, slowed down, sped up, blown apart. there is great control, great precision in the playing. and i think there is considerable beauty in all this. but i dont know (or particularly care, really) if a whole lot of folk have the patience for this type of music, or if they listen to it, if they know how to hear it when they do.

listening is a very mobile skill: but it's mobility is a function of how you think about it.
if you are oriented toward particular types of structure made up of particular sequences that run you through a sequence of responses that you find reassuring, beautiful, generative for whatever you value from such experiences, then fine: but there are many ways of listening, and many types of music.

pop is a pretty fucking narrow field.
i listen to quite alot of it, but i ususally wedge it between other things, a collage element. putting pop tunes in odd places changes how you hear them, and they change how you hear what's around them.
it seems to me that what you love you would want to allow to change.
to keep music in one form, in one place, is to kill it.
you drain out the process and replace it with a thing.
but sound--music--is not a thing.
it is bizarre that it would be so easy to treat it as if it were.

perfection ain't nothing but a word.


here's a list of stuff that i like today (things that have turned up on my sound system in the past 48 hours while i was thinking about this "perfection" business):

albums:

maro ajemian's 1950 recording of john cage's sonatas and interludes for prepared piano.
(for the micing of the piano, the riot of microtones and harmonics produced by the preparations, caught by her pedalling technique...)

toru takemitsu: music from "kwaidan" <--this is brilliant. seriously.
animal collective: sung tongs
dusty springfield: dusty in memphis.
can: tago mago

singles:

beach boys: heroes and villans
kahimie karie: good morning world
satanicpornocultshop: anorexia gas balloon (reprise)

favorite experience in any media of the past 24 hours:

the music lesson sequence from the short film "colorforms"
which is a lovely thing.
"this is for messy girls everywhere" it says.

Ity always amazes me how we get so caught up in subjective lists and will fight, argue and put down another's.

I guess with age comes the some weird sight where you see things and shake your head and realize how stupid it is to argue over.

Like this, these lists are one's opinions, yet you have one person stating that another never listens to anything past the 70's...... ummmm that's very presumptive of the person. The one with the list may just prefer that music as HIS personal best and thus to him the "perfect" music. Doesn't mean he doesn't like today's music..... just not as much.

I guess we as a people need to put others opinions down to make us feel better and justify ours...... (well me, I just write books explaining why I chose what I did and to justify my choice).

To be honest I'd much rather read why a person believe a certain song/album is their top 10 "perfect" and see their passion, it may open me more to listen to it, than to just have them name it, or name it then degrade others choices...

But I'm a weird one I am.

pan:

so i if i understand you correctly, what you are effectively saying is that to ask questions about music is to put down other people's opinions, as if those opinions were sacrosanct and should not be discussed.
so no questions.
no conversation.
we should basically say "i like skippy" or "i like jiff" and the only appropriate response is "well that's nice, x like skippy, y likes jiff"...because music is just an entertainment and because it is an entertainment it is no more or less interesting to think about than peanut butter and one's preferences are just one's preferences.


but riddle me this: what the fuck is the point of a music forum if you can't *talk about* music?
and who decided that to talk about music is to list the songs you like best in a particular genre?
that that is ALL such conversations can or should be?
seriously---who decided that?
was there a vote that no-one told anyone about?
when did that happen?

this forum has in the main been a joke. what happens in it? what is it for?

open the place up.
there is certainly no reason to leave it the cramped, tiny, stuffy little room that is has been.

this is an interesting thread--so for that matter is the bluegrass thread in that people posted to it as a way of showing each other stuff that they might not have heard, providing access to it via the strange medium of youtube (a huge, strange reservoir of music clips btw)---you might think of these as attempts to do something differently within a basically dead forum.


open the place up....let some air run through it...there is nothing that prevents making little lists of stuff that you like and sticking them up in a thread (i do it too from time to time)--but there should also be nothing that prevents another kind of conversation.

No you can ask questions but to degrade or say "you stopped listening to music in the 70's didn't you" (or some such degradation) is really not so much as wanting to share but a personal swipe at another because their subjective list doesn't fit another's standard of what the list should contain.

Just an observation not meant to get into a lengthy talk over.... you can start a new thread for that and I'd be glad to participate. :thumbsup:

why start another one when the conversation is already happening here?

Because the thread is for posting a list of ten songs you think are perfect.

Not for you to spout off about God knows what...

Start another thread or I will close this one.

every generation says that about the next generation of music. People, at one time, didn't think that jazz was more than a fad, that rock n' roll would last, and that Hip Hop was a passing phase. They were all wrong

Another thread in a similar vein.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=68200

Interesting for me to see how similar my lists were during the passage of time.

That doesn't make any sense. Debating what perfection means or whether particular songs qualify is ENTIRELY on topic. It's not just "God knows what" that they're discussing, it's the topic itself.

And I don't understand a god damn word you're saying

I don't have 10.

Muse - Invincible
Pink Floyd - Time
Beulah - Emma Blowgun's Last Stand
Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin
Smashing Pumpkins - Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Depeche Mode - Precious

edit: I thought of a couple more

Elton John - Tiny Dancer
Temptations - Ain't Too Proud to Beg

this is so fucking great.
it is so perfect.
it is so fucking great.



this is pretty cool too.

XTC is great. I really like "Travels in Nihilon". I've got Skylarking and Black Sea, where should I head next?

(p.s. - I love Sung Tongs and Feels, too.)

"English Summer Rain" - Placebo
"Black Dog" - Led Zeppelin
"Life On Mars?" - David Bowie
"No One Would Riot For Less" - Bright Eyes
"Wordless Chorus" - My Morning Jacket
"Money" - Pink Floyd
"Portions Of Foxes" - Rilo Kiley
"Hotel California" - The Eagles
"Living Together" - Circa Survive
"Our Hell" - Emily Haines

paranoid much? I simply made an observation, not an indictment

Sarah Mclachlan - Angel
Kansas - Carry on My Wayward Son
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Simple Man
The Animals - House of the Rising Sun
Weezer - Undone (ok. that's what I'm listening to right now)
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
Ted Nuget - Stranglehold
Pink Floyd - The Wall, The whole Album, It's Flawless.

I'm sure you can tell what kind of mood I'm in.

Meshuggah - I
Opeth - The Moor
Neuraxis - Clarity
Gorguts - Earthly Love
Unexpect - Desert Urbania
Cryptopsy - Phobophile
The Dillinger Escape Plan - When Good Dogs Do Bad Things
Converge - The Broken Vow
Ulver - Capitel I
Emperor - The Eruption

HAHAHAH, the moderator did a good job. SECRET AGENT MAN!

......

Anyways:

Operation Ivy - "Unity"
Romantics - "Talking in your Sleep"
Blitzkid - "Pretty in a Casket"
Bouncing Souls - "Say Anything"
Misfits - "TV Casualty"
Misfits - "Astro Zombies"
Nim Vind - "Astronomicon"
Mister Monster - "Scars 19"
Heart - "Alone"
Rollins Band - "Your Number Is One"

......

Damn, this music gets my metaphorical panties all wet.

This list is highly subjective and skewed towards alternative and classic rock (I do listen to some jazz and rap, but don't have the same deep-seated connection to it)....but here goes...

Street Spirit-Radiohead
Sunday Bloody Sunday-U2
While My Guitar Gently Weeps-The Beatles
Where It's At-Beck
When the Levee Breaks-Led Zeppelin
1969-Boards of Canada
All Along the Watchtower-Jimi Hendrix
No Cars Go-The Arcade Fire
Country Feedback-REM
Gimme Shelter-Rolling Stones

I'm a huge Radiohead fan, and I just have to say this about the Floyd comparison, 'cause it gets made a lot...I just don't see it. To be honest, I'd probably make the argument in reverse...Floyd has no emotion and bores me. I purchased Dark Side of the Moon some years ago, largely because they were always compared to Radiohead, and I could barely sit through it. Whenever I hear Welcome to the Machine on the radio, it makes me feel like I have a huge gaping hole in my stomach where the emotion should be. To me, Floyd feels contrived and hollow (and you'll notice from my list that I am by no means a classic rock ignoramus).

But-and here's the point-that's just me. Music is by its very nature intensely subjective, and that's why it's so much fun to discuss. To each his (or her) own, I say.

P.S. I mistakenly did not attribute the above quote to Sion. I apologize for f'ing that up, I'm a noob. I'll get it right next time, I promise.