ten perfect songs
 

in no particular order



London Calling - The Clash
Into the Mystic - Van Morrison
Whippin' Post (live) - The Allman Brothers
Hurricane - Bob Dylan
Southern Cross - Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
Young American - David Bowie
New York Minute - Don Henley
Victim of Love - The Eagles
Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding - Elton John
Trampled Underfoot - Led Zeppelin

I think this is a rightly nice thread you have started here Sion! :thumbsup:

Hmm...needless to say I will have to ponder over my top ten favorite songs of all-time, but be assured that I will compilate them all for you soon.

Once again, a very great idea to find out our fellow TFPers. :D

The special hip-hop edition

The Roots - Game Theory
Nas - NY State of Mind
Eric B. & Rakim - Check Out My Melody
Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth - They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)
Big Daddy Kane - Raw
Dr. Dre - Let Me Ride
Slick Rick - Children's Story
Grandmaster Flash - The Message
Wu-Tang Clan - Uzi (Pinky Ring)
A Tribe Called Wuest & Leaders of the New School - Scenario

Old Soul edition coming soon

Beethoven - Symphony No. 9
Rachmaninov - Second Piano Concerto
Dvořák - Symphony No. 9
Mendelssohn - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Mozart - Requium
Ravel -Daphnis et Chloe
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture
Chopin - Nocturne in E Minor, Op. 72, No. 1
John Williams - Raiders March, from Raiders of the Lost Arc
Beatles - Hey Jude

thanks for the kind words. however, I didnt say that these were my favorite 10 songs....just that I consider them perfect.

there are many more such songs.

Can you tell us what you use to judge a song as perfect? What makes the songs perfect that you listed in your initial post ?

I realize that each person has their own personal tastes; but I'm interested in hearing WHY rather than WHAT other people find to be good (or perfect) music.

Doug

1) Red Rain - Peter Gabriel
The lyrics and music just go so well together first off; they convey the mood perfectly. Despite Peter Gabriel's fairly limited range he sings the song with incredible passion. The musicianship is just beyond outstanding. The production may be a little over the top -- but it could be justified in this case. There is a simple chord structure that is hidden in complex rhythms and bass lines.

I'll come up with more later.

funny how all of Sion's songs are from a, what, 4 year span of music history? :)

Mine span hundreds of years. *struts*

Will, I was just about to give you a ton of credit, but then it sunk in... most items on this list aren't technically "songs."

Deftones - My Own Summer (Shove It)
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
The Who - My Generation
Rage Against the Machine - Freedom
Jay-Z - 99 Problems
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
U2 - Where the Streets Have No Names
Social Distortion - Story of My Life
Frank Sinatra - My Way
Run DMC - Peter Piper


I have more but that's the start...

Well most people refer to pieces as 'songs', despite they're not being sung. My mistake. Revised:
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9
Ravel - Daphnis et Chloe
Beatles - Hey Jude
and the new ones:
Kenji Kawai- Voyage to Avalon
The Who - Teenage Wasteland
Rolling Stones - Paint it Black
Smashing Pumpkins - Disarm
Gilbert and Sullivan - A British Tar is a Soaring Soul (if you've never heard Gilbert and Sullivan, you're REALLY missing out)
Purcell - Dido's Lament
Billie Holiday - On the Waterfront

...yeesh...

I consider a song perfect when I can imagine no way in which it could be improved. I feel this is the case for all the songs I listed.


I haven't checked, but I think it might be more like 8.

I have others that I consider perfect that cover other decades besides the 70s. I just ran out of slots before I ran out of songs.

maybe I'll post another list later.

Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven
Rage Against The Machine - Wake Up
John Lennon - Imagine
Beatles - Yesterday
Men At Work - Land Down Under
Metallica - One
Pink Floyd - Another Brick In the Wall
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Free Bird
Don Maclean - American Pie (or Strawberry Alarm Clock - Incense & Peppermints)

Alright, I pondered about my ten perfect songs, yet somehow ended up with two entire lists of the impeccable music that I have come across; regardless, here is my list(s):

The Beatles - Let It Be
Blur - End of a Century
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Helpless
Franz Schubert - Ave Maria
Chaka Khan - Through the Fire
The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary
Dave Matthews Band - So Much to Say
Yoko Kanno - Greenbird
John Denver - Leaving on a Jet Plane
Loch Lomond - (Scottish Folk Song)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Philip Glass - Violin Concerto, Mvt. 1
Outkast - Da Art of Storytellin'(Pt. 1)
Radiohead - Karma Police
Nine Inch Nails - Hurt
Ben Kweller - Falling
Dido - Thank You
Don McLean - American Pie
The Fray - Over My Head(Cable Car)
Ray Charles - I Can't Stop Loving You
Giacchino Rossini - The Barber of Seville




*The songs are assembled based only on the moment they entered my head, and then further reviewed upon before eventual approval. C'mon, the songs are perfect,, none moreso greater than the last.*

How is it you excluded karl Orff - O Fortuna??

Seriously, man. I expect better than this out of you.

Hmm....it's good, but it's too 'Verdi' for my tastes.

Ani Difranco - Half-Assed
Animal Collective - Grass
Belle & Sebastian - Get Me Away From Here, I'm Dying
Bob Dylan - Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts
The Dismemberment Plan - Academy Award
Lake Trout - Bliss
Phil Ochs - Outside of a Small Circle of Friends
Radiohead - Knives Out
Stew - The Statue Song
Wilco - I am Trying to Break Your Heart

...yeah, I like this list for now.

Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle
Meatloaf - Paradise By The Dashboard Lights
Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit
Eagles - Peaceful, Easy Feeling
Andrews Sisters - Rum And Coca-Cola
Frank Sinatra - The Best Is Yet To Come
Louis Armstong - What A Wonderful World
Peter Paul and Mary - Puff, The Magic Dragon
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
Gordon Lightfoot - The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald

and another list by someone who stopped listening to new music in 1977

ok so this has been building for a while, and this thread seems as good a place as any to say it.

i do not understand what is being talked about here.

i do not understand how it is that music and its commodity form (recordings) are collapsed into each other to such an extent that recordings are the norm and the making of it ancillary.

another way: i do not understand why folk want to hear the same thing in the same way over and over and over.
i do not understand how folk use recordings, how they use music, what they think it is to do, what their relation to it is.
i do not understand why music is entertainment, distraction, diversion.

another way:
i do not understand how it came about that folk would come to see repetition of static durations within which particular sequences of sonic fetures unfold in the same fucking way every fucking time to be a respite, a space to inhabit and to dream through--when it seems to me obvious that this relation strips these sounds (and by extension sound more generally) of any danger, any development, any change and in so doing relegates change to spaces outside of music, exploration to spaces outside of it.

i do not understand what a perfect commodity could possibly be.
i do not understand what a perfect song is.
i understood the sentences that were offered as a definition in no. 12--the words are easy peasy, the sentence itself poses no problems of comprehension--but the relation expressed through it baffles me entirely.

i do not understand how this notion of a perfect song gets translated into an affirmation of absolute passivity (something "you cannot imagine changing or adding anything to").
i do not understand how music is collapsed into an object, how it gets to be a thing, a thing that you contemplate in the same way, or within a fairly limited range of ways that amount to the same way, over and over.

i do not understand why a song that you love could not just as easily be seen as material for making other sequences, other pieces, why an expression of love for a piece has to be its passive acceptance.

it seems that gertrude stein was right, as she was about many things:

cultural productions, once accepted, become nothing but beautiful.
they loose any possibility of challenging you, any possibility of pushing you to think otherwise.

this is not about questioning what people like--we are obviously free to like what we like, and frankly i dont really care about it so much. i mean, seeing these lists is a mechanism for producing a sense of community, a list of predicates that function to situate the person generating the list socially and culturally, and the sequence of them is an exchange of social and cultural information.
and there are recordings that i think are quite swell and which i enjoy for a while, then put away, then listen to again, hopefully in a different manner, hopefully in a way that enables me to learn something, even if that something is vague, about sound, about the world, about making stuff.

and this is an implicit claim that my relation to sonic objects is better than anyone else's--it is my relation, which i have fashioned across many years of very different types of activity and which i have no interest in imposing on anyone and that because this relation is a function of my particular experience and that experience, like any other, is not transposable.

but one's experience involves certain underlying logics that you bring to it, whether you are aware of it or not, and it is the logic that i see running through this whole thread that baffles me. but it is like this all the time on this particular forum. most of the time, i dont understand what happens here.

what i dont understand, and what this post is about, is the relation to music that gets expressed or enacted by way of the sequences of recordings tacked together as lists of perfect objects above.
i just dont understand it.

only 10 is not fair, as soon as i put them down i will think of about 40 more, but...

crazy train - ozzy osbourn
will they die for you? - dvda, off the south park chef aid album
guitars cadillacs and hillbilly music - dwight yoakum
9th smphony - beethoven
ripple - janes addiciton version of the grateful dead song
psycho killer - talking heads
every second of every day - avoid one thing
perfect people - william shatner version (yes, i am serious about this)
sympathy for the devil - roling stones
ring of fire - any version, especially social distortion's and dwight yoakam's

RB, it's really, REALLY objective. When I listen to Ode to Joy, every time I hear something new, but it's about evoking a strong and favorable emotional response out of beauty of the piece. One might as well ask why one smells a rose or hangs a piece of art. Yes, I get sick of songs or write new songs all the time, but I don't see myself ever stopping listening to Ode to Joy. One of the benefits of some pieces, usually classical or jazz, is their complexity. When I listen to Daphnis et Chloe, by Ravel (the very reason I chose my screenname), I can be swept up in the incredible melodies and movement.

i understand what you attribute to the experience, but the experience itself is anything but objective.
beethoven's ninth (and the third, which i actually like more, despite what i am about to say) is (are?) the earliest musical experiences i can remember having--my father was obsessed with them--when my parents divorced, recordings of these symphonies were among the debris left behind, so i listened to them on my various shitty playback devices over and over again. even as a little kid. well before i knew anything about music, then, these particular pieces were both overdetermined for me and also held no surprises. but eventually, something changed.
i dont remember when.
but i do know what changed was the relationship i could have to either of these pieces and that the motor of it was repetition. repetition erased the overdetermination these pieces once had for me. repetition collapsed the space of projection. repetition made them from lovely environments into maps of interesting spaces to maps of spaces i knew so well i no longer looked very much to maps of spaces i just didnt want to go to any more because they were always the same always the same no matter what they were always the same.
so the recorded objects have a certain objectivity to them in that the features will follow each other in the same way every time. different versions will vary the speed of repetition, the size of the orchestra, attacks, phrasing, dynamics--but it is always jiggling features of the same map.
so even from this, it is obvious that the relation to these sonic objects (recordings) is anything but objective.
and it is the logic that underpins them that i am asking about, that i do not understand--not that i dont know about it---i do, trust me---but i dont understand how that place is inhabited by other folk.

roachboy,

i understand where you're coming from, but hopefully you don't look down on those of us who DO take joy or whatever from the repetition.

1. Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
2. For Whom the Bell Tolls - Metallica
3. First Day of My Life - Bright Eyes
4. The Calico Kid - Ralph Covert
5. In My Life - The Beatles
6. 4 + 20 - Crosby, Still & Nash
7. Three Days - Jane's Addiction
8. Us & Them - Pink Floyd
9. Paranoid Android - Radiohead
10. Big Sky/Baddest of the Bad - Reverend Horton Heat

That's in no particular order, and merely a rough draft

derwood:

i tried to say that i didnt, and didnt mean to imply that i did---i am baffled--but i also listen to ALOT of music--so there is a fan side of me---but over time, my relation to that side of me has changed (as has its contents), and so what i do not understand, and what i am trying to ask about, is probably a function of that change too.

I find it's helpful to have multiple recordings by different conductors or symphonies. At one time, I had like 12 different recordings of the ninth, and each had it's own sound. My favorite will always be from the soundtrack to Immortal Beloved, but I've found that a few old recordings on tape I got from my grandfather are stunningly beautiful, too. I have recordings of Star Wars music from the Skywalker Symphony here in the Bay Area and from the London Symphony Orchestra. I have Sinatra's version of Embraceable You and Billie Holiday's. The art comes from the artist(s), as much from the art.

the truth is that in an ideal world, one would have full access to constant live feeds of brand new music, but that's just not possible

And again...


The Clash - Guns of Brixton
Jerry Lee Lewis - Great Balls of Fire
Bobby Darin - Mack the Knife
Elvis - Heartbreak Hotel
Bill Haley and the Comets - Shake, Rattle and Roll
The Beatles - Helter Skelter
Prodigy - Smack My Bitch Up
Nirvana - Come As You Are
Simon and Garfunkel - Mrs. Robinson
Johnny Cash - I Walk the Line

I'm going to ignore my internal cringe at the word "perfect" and interpret this as a thread about songs which persons don't tire of, feel inspired by and/or create a spark of emotion or memory. My list for today, in no particular order...


The Cure -- Close to You
311 -- Amber
Dispatch -- The General
System of a Down -- Toxicity
Van Morrison -- I Love You
Eric Johnson -- Cliffs of Dover
Jimi Hendrix -- Pali Gap
Simon and Garfunkel -- I am a Rock
Crowded House -- The World Where You Live
Bjork -- Violently Happy

I'm also going to second the "Red Rain" vote up there. I love that song.

So, so many songs to choose from, and each one gives my life more meaning. I won't even try to pick the top ten, it wouldn't be fair. I'll just post the songs with the highest play counts in my collection.

In Our Gun - Gomez
Turandot: Nessun dorma - Puccini
Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin
Californication - Red Hot Chili Peppers
Radio/Video - System of a Down
Madama Butterfly: Un bel di - Puccini
Tosca: Dammi i colori - Puccini
Tosca: E lucevan le stelle - Puccini
Summertime, from Porgy and Bess - Gershwin
Yesterday - The Beatles

I can't stop...

Bon Jovi - Wanted Dead or Alive
Guns N' Roses - Welcome to the Jungle
KISS - Rock & Roll All Night
Kim Wilde - Kids in America
Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone
John Lennon - Imagine
Al Green - Let's Stay Together
David Bowie - Space Oddity
Queen - We Will Rock You
Madonna - Like a Virgin

Since I don't listen to classical, my 10 perfect are:
Heatwave-Martha Reeves and the Vandellas(best girl-group song ever. Period.)
Legs-ZZTop
Long Train Running-Doobie Brothers(quite possibly THE best opening riff and percussions ever)
I'll Be Around-Spinners(Philly sound personified)
Love Song-The Cure
Smooth-Carlos Santana and Rob Thomas(genius guitar)
Bohemian Rhapsody-Queen
Yesterday-The Beatles
Knights in White Satin-Moody Blues
I'm Your Captain/Closer to Home-Grand Funk Railroad ( rock simplicity at its finest)

Of course, 'perfect' is subjective and some of these aren't favorites of mine, maybe just the first three; but, at their times of release, they made an impact, maybe raised the bar a bit and were out of the norm at the time.
Honorable mention has to go to "Overture" from the Tommy album.

wow this is a tough one for me...I lean towards recent songs so this could be sketchy

Champagne Supernova - OASIS
Raining in Baltimore - Counting Crows
The Freshman - The Verve
One Headlight - Wallflowers
This Years Love - David Gray
Set The Fire to the Third Bar - Snow Patrol
Hey Jude - The Beatles
Shelter From the Storm - Bob Dylan
Layla - Eric Clapton
These are the Days - Van Morrison

yeah...hmm...not my personal top 10....then again....maybe there are a lot of perfect songs....I mean thats why people like them...

In no particular order...

While My Guitar Gently Weeps - The Beatles (George Harrison, feat. Eric Clapton's guitar soloing)
A Day in the Life - The Beatles
Cherub Rock - Smashing Pumpkins
Karma Police - Radiohead
Long Distance Call - Muddy Waters
Spoonful - Howlin' Wolf
Let It Ride - Big Sugar (a blazing BTO cover)
Blow at High Dough - The Tragically Hip
Purple Haze - Jimi Hendrix
Uniform Grey - Sarah Harmer

And my definition of a perfect song includes that it is essentially changeable. Whether through improvised soloing, varying recording techniques, or altered instrumentation, the perfect song is not static; it can be picked up and reinterpreted. It is a living entity. (As an example, listen to what Big Sugar did to "Let It Ride.")

To me, this is really really SUBjective. It's not like there is a world standard of perfection. I think we're just talking about songs that are 100% satisfying and there is not one part of it that we would change.

In any case, I don't have 10.

1) mind.in.a.box - Change

I don't see that it is all too difficult to understand how music can function as a perfect unchangeable commodity. Just look at how music works on us. It appeals to us on a number of levels. It is not just sonorous noise. It carries meaning through our interpretation (what do you think of when you hear the 9th?), through association (a song once danced to when I was young heard today brings back that memory), through cultural significance (youth listening to the music of their generation do so frequently because it sonically assaults their parent's ears)... the list goes on.

A loved piece of music settles on our minds and triggers all kind of good feelings and memories.

That said, it isn't always about hearing the same thing over and over (though I agree this is likely the case the majority of the time). A sample in hiphop, a remix, a mashup, a cover song all to varying degrees take an original song and make it into something new. Enjoyment is found in the play between the original version and something new.

That said, I can understand why people latch onto one song vs. another. Is it a passive experience? Largely yes. But then, most cultural enjoyment is passive. There is little room to add meaning a recorded music production (unless you are using it in some of the things I listed above but at that point you are more or less an artist and less of a listener - though I suppose you can be both).

I don't know what a perfect piece of music is. I don't think anyone really does other than to say that there is a song they like to listen to over and over for whatever reason they might have (if they are even conscious of their reasons for liking the piece in the first place).

Hey Jude - Beatles
You're the Reason God Made Oklahoma - Frizzell & West
Picture - Kid Rock & Sheryl Crow
Never Been to Spain - Three Dog Night
The Musician - Return to Forever
Symphony No. 40 in G Minor, K. 550 - Mozart
Back Door Man - Howlin' Wolf
Messiah - Handel
Colours the Soul - Coldcut
The Weakness in Me - Joan Armatrading

Hmmmm

Well the KINKS had quite a few but I'll only have 2

1. Dedicated Follower of Fashion = The KINKS (Ray Davies' best at observing life, fads and it is timeless plus the music is kept to a soft undertone very steady and strong though.)

2. Ruby Tuesday = The Stones (The instruments used and the timing of the song.... it's by far the best song the Stones ever did musically... plus it was written by Brian Jones one of his only credited songs)

3. Southern Cross = CSNY simply put CSNY at their musical best and imaginitive

4. Imagine = LENNON extremely potent lyrics, musically well done as it is subtle but catchy enough to pay attention if the lyrics don't grab you at first.

5. For What It's Worth = Buffalo Springfield great guitar that catches your ear, a bass line that stays steady and sure so that the ping in the guitar stands out that much stronger, and lyrics that grab you, shake you and make you pay attention...... 40 years later and it is every bit as relevant as the day it was written... perhaps even moreso

6. LOLA = The KINKS what can one say..... Ray Davies at his geniusly best this is just the creme de la creme of his work that proves the KINKS are the greatest ever.

7. My Way = Frank Sinatra if you don't choke up even in the slightest during this song you ain't human, the music just pulls you into the mood of the song... from the sad beginning to middle coming in with the violins and slight piano.... then BAM the crescendo where Frankie's voice grits it out and almost yells that he has nothing to be ashamed of in his life then back to just grabbing you with smoothness "oh no not me... I did it my way" and then POW BAM with right uppercut-left hook-right hook-left straight to the jaw combos for the knockout........when he hits "What is a man... what has he got, if not his word than he has not....." and the way the music just leads AND follows just fuckin powerful timeless and FRANKIE 100%

8. Baby Elephant Walk = Henry fuckin' Mancini.... name a catchier and more fun piece of music, repetitive yes....but damn it just makes ya smile and feel good

9. Working Class Hero = John Lennon his steady guitar as his voice just comes at you and lets you feel his pain and shows he can empathize with yours..... the pain in his voice just so grabbing and the pain in his guitar it is crying .... Green Day's cover proves that adding anything other than just that simple guitar and Lennon's voice is a crime and bastardizing the song

10. Wipeout = the Ventures who can deny it is one if not the catchiest rock instrumentals ever and one of the strongest it just makes ya feel good and alive........

I just want to add in Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah... it never ceases to amaze and move me every time I listen to it. I've never even really listene to the rest of his work, but that song just gets to me.

Prince - Purple Rain
Can - She Brings the Rain
Nick Drake - Pink Moon
Pink Floyd - Great Gig in the Sky
Jimi Hendrix - The Wind Cries Mary
Clint Mansell - Lux Aeterna
Leonard Cohen - Suzanne
Charles Mingus - Better Git Hit in Your Soul
Dusty Springfield - Son of a Preacher Man
Ray Charles - Georgia on my Mind
Dick Dale - Surf Rider

I'll second Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, that song gives me chills.

I know it's subjective, but my idea of a perfect song is one that is so well-crafted or captures a mood so perfectly that you would be hard pressed to improve on it in any way.

Zs- Nobody Wants To Be Had
Cephalic Carnage - Lucid Interval
Pig Destroyer - Junkyard God
Ulver - The Future Sound Of Music
Carbomb - Cielo Drive
Psyopus - Whore Meet Liar
Daughters - And Then The C.H.U.D.S. Came
Cryptopsy - In The Kingdom Where Everything Dies, Even The Sky Is Mortal
Infidel?/Castro! - The Onset Of Life
Melt-Banana - Spathic!!

I really agonized over my answer to this... Here goes:

Nighthawks at the Diner, Tom Waits
Walk on the Wild Side, Lou Reed
Don't Let it Bring you Down, Annie Lennox's cover of the Neil Young song
Wicked Game, Chris Isaac
Save Me, Aimee Mann
In the Colosseum, Tom Waits
Little Wing, SRV's cover of the Hendrix tune
Separation, Robert Miles
Mona Lisa Overdrive, Juno Reactor
Imagine, John Lennon

What the hell?
My list deserves derision simply because it doesn't contain anything that was put out a week ago?

Stop me before I kill again...


Rollins Band - Liar
Elton John - Rocket Man
Depeche Mode - People Are People
New Order - Blue Monday
Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi's Dead
INXS - Devil Inside
Bad Religion - Sorrow
Jimmy Eat World -The Middle
Pennywise - Alien
face to face - I Won't Lie Down

We should think about marketing these lists for profit, whaddaya say, huh? :D I kid because I love

Gee, aren't we a bit hostile over individual choices....
40% of yours are moldy oldies as well...not to throw stones, but...
We all know the lists are subjective, although several tunes keep popping up, most notably Imagine by John Lennon and Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen.
Music is many things to many people. It invokes memories, creates moods, soothes nerves and even can help kids study and concentrate better on schoolwork.
Don't be hatin....

I'm sorry... It's not my fault that I'm a music snob.


Oh wait... It is.

I'm not hatin'....I just have a pet peeve about people whose essentially stop listening to new music at a certain point in their lives. To each his own, but I hope to discovering new bands when I'm 93

Who ever said that I stopped listening to "new bands"? Perhaps...just perhaps...I just don't see anything that's offered up on the buffet table that can even come close to the Steve Miller Band, Jefferson Airplane, the Eagles, Styx or Queen. Who do you have today, that can stand up to Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, or even Patty, Maxine and Laverne? Pop culture just doesn't hold any interest for me, and I've seen enough flash, in enough pans, back in the 80's, to last me a lifetime. So, it's not that I stopped listening to the newer stuff. There is a lot of good stuff out there. Just not great stuff. I just don't see that much, if any of it, will stand up to time.

Truth.
A lot of the stuff I listen to is the same stuff my 15 year olds listen to; by the same token, what they're discovering now was new to me 20-30 years ago. My son listens to The Beatles, my daughter to Billy Idol, among others. And I've noticed a lot of covers of 70's and 80's rock-they can't compare to the originals, but they're becoming pretty common. But, 20-30 years from now, will bands be doing new versions of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" or the latest 50 Cents? Kinda doubt it...The most covered song in music history, by the way? "Yesterday".

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree here. I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Popular music has changed a lot since the '80s. It has become greatly diversified in that there are far more genre offshoots today than there were even ten years ago. Given this new environment, it is unfair and even unsatisfying to compare today's music to the likes of Steve Miller Band or The Beatles (the latter of which I am a huge, rabid fan). Rock bands of the past, in particular, were operating out of a purer environment; they are closer to their roots of blues and R&B than bands of today.

What you get today is a type of rock that is further evolved and influenced by even more sources. A great example of this is Radiohead, a rock band whose influences are heavily derived from classical music, jazz, and electronica. Their sound is unique (in spite of obvious but sloppy copying by others) and continues to evolve. Their artistic, non-commercial approach to music ended up being commercial... some how.... Consider Kid A: it debuted at number one in many areas worldwide despite its experimental, unconventional approach. And to this day, that album has been covered extensively by various types of musicians, including classical and jazz. I really could go on to solidify my argument, but I don't feel it's necessary, as Radiohead's legacy looks to be a certainty already, and said legacy reaches back even before Kid A to the brilliant albums OK Computer and The Bends.

I agree that there won't likely be covers of many songs being produced today, but let's not rule out the few who truly are producing what I would call nothing less than aesthetically pleasing. Radiohead is just one example and shouldn't be overlooked.

I'd have to say it's more about the change in the business side of things, i.e. the blatant commerciallism that runs rampant through the industry. Prior to the 80's, a talented band could make 2 or 3 low selling albums before hitting its stride, without having to worry about the label dumping it. Nowadays, if your first album does not at least go gold, you get dumped for the next flavor of the month.


For me, I still thrill to the experience of hearing a great new song. However, there's SO much out there, and so many ways for new stuff to reach an audience, that I just don't have the time to listen to much new stuff. I don't have time to wade through the dreck to get to the goodies. (I've always maintained that in any sort of artistic endeavor, 90% of it will be junk.) As a result, I rarely hear anything new that interests me much. The last two songs that really sparked my interest were Kryptonite from Three Doors Down and DOA from the Foo Fighters.

Oh, and Radiohead bores me to tears. To me, they sould like rehashed Pink Floyd/Emerson, Lake & Palmer/Yes/etc, minus any soul or emotion.

Chacun à son goût. You really think they sound like that? It seems you haven't listened to them widely enough, especially if you haven't found any emotion in the music. Many of their songs are strikingly emotional and reflective of the time we live in. Perhaps the music isn't as accessible as some of the more mainstream music, but I enjoy its complexity and subtlety.

But I agree that the business model has had an effect on a lot of talent, which is sad, but let's not let it keep us from finding things to enjoy. There are many ways to cut through the fluff and get to what you want. Many Internet technologies and presences are wonderful for helping you do so.

well, I've listened to Ok Computer and Kid A in their entirety. as I said, bored me to tears...

Was that because you couldn't dance to them?

no...I don't dance much...only when I'm really drunk.

just got nothing from them

Which points to the notion that music is both subjective and generational. In my list, I included a song from C.1963. I barely remember it as a new tune because I was 8 or 9 when it was released. Of course, unless you listen to an oldies station or your parents listened to music of the 50's and 60's, you wouldn't know it from Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star. But, at the time it came out, 'girl groups' invaded the rock scene of the time with catchy dance tunes that rivaled anything the 'boys' could put out and there were probably more of them than boy bands.
Of course, music evolves; the Beatles were influenced by what came out before them as much as any group is influenced by the Beatles now-that's a given.
For every person that thinks Radiohead is terrific, another will think it sucks; but, with something like this list thread, certain 'classic' rock tunes continue to come up because they transcend the generational pull and continue to influence those who come after.
Just as you couldn't possibly understand the phenomenon and the utter maddening enthusiasm that greeted the Beatles because it happened 12 years before your birth, there will be kids that won't understand what the fuss was about with Nirvana or even Radiohead and therefore not feel that same influence quite the same way. That's just the nature of music's evolution and why the 'perfect song' doesn't really exist unchallenged.

A very good point to consider, ngdawg! :thumbsup:

To you all that are fighting about what it is to call something perfect...



Thanks for ruining the thread.


Be quiet now.

Yet another good point to consider. :D

Shall we recommence?

----------------------

Al Green - Look What You Done to Me
The Temptations - All I Need
Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
Pink Floyd - Another Brick In the Wall
Megadeth - Dawn Patrol
Dliated Peoples - This Way
Yoko Kanno - Words That We Couldn't Say
George Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue
Elvis Presley - Blue Suede Shoes
Kate Bush - The Sensual World

-----------------------

Fair enough.

Most art is, and for good reason. I am sure that in the Beatles' time, there were many who thought they were ruining R&B, just as many are resistant to the kind of thing Radiohead does. Yet, all things considered, both of these groups have been lauded as groundbreaking. My liking both the Beatles and Radiohead is no coincidence. I like art that departs from convention while still tapping into the human experience. This is why I also like William Shakespeare and Marcel Duchamp.

Taking Radiohead into consideration, they are very conscious of musical forms and interpreting the lives we live. I can't expect art to do anything more. Not everyone likes Duchamp, but his work speaks volumes to our experiences of the 20th century. I'm not surprised that not everyone likes Radiohead. To assume that everyone needs to is nonsense. The bottom line: Art isn't a popularity contest.

wk complains because a conversation breaks out?
what's the matter?



there's a strange effect of living inside a mountain of music: release dates aren't terribly important. what is new is maybe only new for you. maybe you are crossing genres. maybe something was reissued recently and you didnt know it existed before...at the moment, i am listening to jimmy guiffre's 1962 record "free fall" with paul bley and steve swallow. it's been around, vaguely, for a long time: i just picked it up yesterday (it's a great record, btw...you can hear where someone like john carter picked up from.) i dont know if this is a "perfect" record because it isnt pop. it is an extremely disciplined recording: lots of space, lots of concentration. it's hard to say if the question of whether you would "add anything" while listening means anything.
i dont think it does.

this is a studio performance. on this particular day, during the period the decks were recording, these gentlemen hit a rarified space. but there is no particular easy melody--there are elements being set up, inverted, slowed down, sped up, blown apart. there is great control, great precision in the playing. and i think there is considerable beauty in all this. but i dont know (or particularly care, really) if a whole lot of folk have the patience for this type of music, or if they listen to it, if they know how to hear it when they do.

listening is a very mobile skill: but it's mobility is a function of how you think about it.
if you are oriented toward particular types of structure made up of particular sequences that run you through a sequence of responses that you find reassuring, beautiful, generative for whatever you value from such experiences, then fine: but there are many ways of listening, and many types of music.

pop is a pretty fucking narrow field.
i listen to quite alot of it, but i ususally wedge it between other things, a collage element. putting pop tunes in odd places changes how you hear them, and they change how you hear what's around them.
it seems to me that what you love you would want to allow to change.
to keep music in one form, in one place, is to kill it.
you drain out the process and replace it with a thing.
but sound--music--is not a thing.
it is bizarre that it would be so easy to treat it as if it were.

perfection ain't nothing but a word.


here's a list of stuff that i like today (things that have turned up on my sound system in the past 48 hours while i was thinking about this "perfection" business):

albums:

maro ajemian's 1950 recording of john cage's sonatas and interludes for prepared piano.
(for the micing of the piano, the riot of microtones and harmonics produced by the preparations, caught by her pedalling technique...)

toru takemitsu: music from "kwaidan" <--this is brilliant. seriously.
animal collective: sung tongs
dusty springfield: dusty in memphis.
can: tago mago

singles:

beach boys: heroes and villans
kahimie karie: good morning world
satanicpornocultshop: anorexia gas balloon (reprise)

favorite experience in any media of the past 24 hours:

the music lesson sequence from the short film "colorforms"
which is a lovely thing.
"this is for messy girls everywhere" it says.

Ity always amazes me how we get so caught up in subjective lists and will fight, argue and put down another's.

I guess with age comes the some weird sight where you see things and shake your head and realize how stupid it is to argue over.

Like this, these lists are one's opinions, yet you have one person stating that another never listens to anything past the 70's...... ummmm that's very presumptive of the person. The one with the list may just prefer that music as HIS personal best and thus to him the "perfect" music. Doesn't mean he doesn't like today's music..... just not as much.

I guess we as a people need to put others opinions down to make us feel better and justify ours...... (well me, I just write books explaining why I chose what I did and to justify my choice).

To be honest I'd much rather read why a person believe a certain song/album is their top 10 "perfect" and see their passion, it may open me more to listen to it, than to just have them name it, or name it then degrade others choices...

But I'm a weird one I am.

pan:

so i if i understand you correctly, what you are effectively saying is that to ask questions about music is to put down other people's opinions, as if those opinions were sacrosanct and should not be discussed.
so no questions.
no conversation.
we should basically say "i like skippy" or "i like jiff" and the only appropriate response is "well that's nice, x like skippy, y likes jiff"...because music is just an entertainment and because it is an entertainment it is no more or less interesting to think about than peanut butter and one's preferences are just one's preferences.


but riddle me this: what the fuck is the point of a music forum if you can't *talk about* music?
and who decided that to talk about music is to list the songs you like best in a particular genre?
that that is ALL such conversations can or should be?
seriously---who decided that?
was there a vote that no-one told anyone about?
when did that happen?

this forum has in the main been a joke. what happens in it? what is it for?

open the place up.
there is certainly no reason to leave it the cramped, tiny, stuffy little room that is has been.

this is an interesting thread--so for that matter is the bluegrass thread in that people posted to it as a way of showing each other stuff that they might not have heard, providing access to it via the strange medium of youtube (a huge, strange reservoir of music clips btw)---you might think of these as attempts to do something differently within a basically dead forum.


open the place up....let some air run through it...there is nothing that prevents making little lists of stuff that you like and sticking them up in a thread (i do it too from time to time)--but there should also be nothing that prevents another kind of conversation.

No you can ask questions but to degrade or say "you stopped listening to music in the 70's didn't you" (or some such degradation) is really not so much as wanting to share but a personal swipe at another because their subjective list doesn't fit another's standard of what the list should contain.

Just an observation not meant to get into a lengthy talk over.... you can start a new thread for that and I'd be glad to participate. :thumbsup:

why start another one when the conversation is already happening here?

Because the thread is for posting a list of ten songs you think are perfect.

Not for you to spout off about God knows what...

Start another thread or I will close this one.

every generation says that about the next generation of music. People, at one time, didn't think that jazz was more than a fad, that rock n' roll would last, and that Hip Hop was a passing phase. They were all wrong

Another thread in a similar vein.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=68200

Interesting for me to see how similar my lists were during the passage of time.

That doesn't make any sense. Debating what perfection means or whether particular songs qualify is ENTIRELY on topic. It's not just "God knows what" that they're discussing, it's the topic itself.

And I don't understand a god damn word you're saying

I don't have 10.

Muse - Invincible
Pink Floyd - Time
Beulah - Emma Blowgun's Last Stand
Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin
Smashing Pumpkins - Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Depeche Mode - Precious

edit: I thought of a couple more

Elton John - Tiny Dancer
Temptations - Ain't Too Proud to Beg

this is so fucking great.
it is so perfect.
it is so fucking great.



this is pretty cool too.

XTC is great. I really like "Travels in Nihilon". I've got Skylarking and Black Sea, where should I head next?

(p.s. - I love Sung Tongs and Feels, too.)

"English Summer Rain" - Placebo
"Black Dog" - Led Zeppelin
"Life On Mars?" - David Bowie
"No One Would Riot For Less" - Bright Eyes
"Wordless Chorus" - My Morning Jacket
"Money" - Pink Floyd
"Portions Of Foxes" - Rilo Kiley
"Hotel California" - The Eagles
"Living Together" - Circa Survive
"Our Hell" - Emily Haines

paranoid much? I simply made an observation, not an indictment

Sarah Mclachlan - Angel
Kansas - Carry on My Wayward Son
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Simple Man
The Animals - House of the Rising Sun
Weezer - Undone (ok. that's what I'm listening to right now)
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
Ted Nuget - Stranglehold
Pink Floyd - The Wall, The whole Album, It's Flawless.

I'm sure you can tell what kind of mood I'm in.

Meshuggah - I
Opeth - The Moor
Neuraxis - Clarity
Gorguts - Earthly Love
Unexpect - Desert Urbania
Cryptopsy - Phobophile
The Dillinger Escape Plan - When Good Dogs Do Bad Things
Converge - The Broken Vow
Ulver - Capitel I
Emperor - The Eruption

HAHAHAH, the moderator did a good job. SECRET AGENT MAN!

......

Anyways:

Operation Ivy - "Unity"
Romantics - "Talking in your Sleep"
Blitzkid - "Pretty in a Casket"
Bouncing Souls - "Say Anything"
Misfits - "TV Casualty"
Misfits - "Astro Zombies"
Nim Vind - "Astronomicon"
Mister Monster - "Scars 19"
Heart - "Alone"
Rollins Band - "Your Number Is One"

......

Damn, this music gets my metaphorical panties all wet.

This list is highly subjective and skewed towards alternative and classic rock (I do listen to some jazz and rap, but don't have the same deep-seated connection to it)....but here goes...

Street Spirit-Radiohead
Sunday Bloody Sunday-U2
While My Guitar Gently Weeps-The Beatles
Where It's At-Beck
When the Levee Breaks-Led Zeppelin
1969-Boards of Canada
All Along the Watchtower-Jimi Hendrix
No Cars Go-The Arcade Fire
Country Feedback-REM
Gimme Shelter-Rolling Stones

I'm a huge Radiohead fan, and I just have to say this about the Floyd comparison, 'cause it gets made a lot...I just don't see it. To be honest, I'd probably make the argument in reverse...Floyd has no emotion and bores me. I purchased Dark Side of the Moon some years ago, largely because they were always compared to Radiohead, and I could barely sit through it. Whenever I hear Welcome to the Machine on the radio, it makes me feel like I have a huge gaping hole in my stomach where the emotion should be. To me, Floyd feels contrived and hollow (and you'll notice from my list that I am by no means a classic rock ignoramus).

But-and here's the point-that's just me. Music is by its very nature intensely subjective, and that's why it's so much fun to discuss. To each his (or her) own, I say.

P.S. I mistakenly did not attribute the above quote to Sion. I apologize for f'ing that up, I'm a noob. I'll get it right next time, I promise.

"metaphorical panties"...I like the sound of that.

Pink Floyd and Radiohead are two of my top five bands ever, so liking them is not mutually exclusive

The Animals - Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood
Blackfield - Blackfield
Porcupine Tree - Anesthetize
Pink Floyd - Echoes
Faith No More - Ashes To Ashes
The Beatles - Hey Jude
Opeth - The Funeral Portrait
Nick Drake - Time Has Told Me
Neil Young - Down By The River
George Harrison - Beware Of Darkness