Bilstein engine flush... Should I, or shouldn't I - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SirLance · 12-29-2005, 03:02 PM

I have a Chrysler sebring with 140K miles. I'm thinking about doing this, but someone whose opinion I respect thinks it might actually be bad and introduce oil to areas that wouldn't handle it well.

I'd like to regain performance and extend the life of my engine.

I'm religious about maintenance and change my oil every 3 - 5k miles.

Any advice?

cj2112 · 12-29-2005, 04:31 PM

well the car talk guys have this to say

Quote:

Dear Tom and Ray:

While having my 1996 Toyota Camry (45,000 miles) serviced recently, the service technician handed me a brochure and told me it was time to have my engine flushed [redtruck.gif] (to the tune of $129) by something called the Bilstein R-2000 Engine Flush System. I politely declined, saying I would consider it next time. The brochure says it should be done every 12,000 miles. In my 30 years (and my husband's 30-plus years) of driving, neither of us has ever heard of such a recommendation. Is this the latest attempt by dealers to "extort" more money from we unsuspecting drivers? Is such an engine cleansing REALLY necessary? I would appreciate your comments, please. -- Marilyn

Tom: I suspect this device is known around the dealership as the Bilstein R-2000 Wallet Flush System. And, in fact, my brother has already called Bilstein about leasing one.

Ray: What this thing does is pump a heated solvent through your engine, presumably to wash away any sludge that's built up on the valves, rings or other engine components.

Tom: And it's really quite unnecessary. Particularly for a car with only 45,000 miles on it. Changing the oil serves the same purpose -- de-sludgification, if you will -- and if you change the oil every 5,000 or 7,500 miles, you shouldn't HAVE any significant sludge that needs to be washed out.

Ray: While it's possible that such cleaning may help the engine last longer, the engine on a Toyota Camry should easily last 150,000 miles without flushing. And if you followed the advice in the brochure and flushed the engine every 12,000 miles, you'd spend $1,600 on engine flushes in 150,000 miles. That's almost enough to buy a rebuilt engine!

Tom: This is what's known in the business as a "profit center." Something the garage can use to beef up the amount each person spends per visit. So unless you've got a very old car, and are trying to solve a specific, sludge- or carbon-related-problem, I'd skip the R-2000.

I'd say it's probably not really gonna do much for your engine, but i don't think it'll do any damage either.

laconic1 · 12-30-2005, 04:22 PM

I don't know about Chrysler, but I know GM issued a tech service bulletin a couple of years ago strongly advising dealers to not do any Bilstein or similar type flushes, since the chemicals used for the flush may be incompatible with bearings and seals. Of course most of their dealers have these in place for reasons listed in the above article. If you change the oil every 3-5k miles like you do I can't imagine there would be any sludge buildup to worry about. Also, one of the first things I was taught in auto mechanics class is that if there is sludge in an engine, do not disturb it, unless you are doing a complete top to bottom engine overhaul. The reason for this is you may not get all of it out and then some residual sludge ends up finding its way into the bearings and wipes out the engine.

SirLance · 12-30-2005, 05:00 PM

I that clarifies what my friend was trying to tell me. He is an engineer who designs jet engines. What about cleaning fuel injectors? Is that a ripoff too?

DEI37 · 12-30-2005, 05:20 PM

No. Fuel injection system service can be very helpful. Over time, deposits may be left in the injectors, or something of that nature. Properly done, they can be restored to like new condition. Throttle response, fuel economy, and power are all helped in this scenario.

laconic1 · 12-30-2005, 06:31 PM

Fuel injection service is good. In addition to what DEI37 mentioned it can also help prevent misfires and if the injector were to plug up completely it would then have to be replaced, which costs a bit more than a fuel injection service. Since there really isn't any preventative maintenance on the fuel system other than changing the fuel filter, there isn't any good way of preventing these deposits from forming.

SirLance · 12-31-2005, 10:00 AM

OK, well I'm definitely gonna pass on the engine flush and have the fuel injectors serviced.

MSD · 01-04-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

well the car talk guys have this to say:
[article]
I'd say it's probably not really gonna do much for your engine, but i don't think it'll do any damage either.

Yes, going 5000-7500 on an oil change is an excellent idea. You will become intimately acquainted with oil sludge and the damage it causes. If you change the oil, start the car until the oil pressure warning light goes out, and the oil on the dipstick is not the same color as the oil that came out of the can/bottle, you have sludge buildup. We do motor flushes on cars all the time at work when they're thousands of miles overdue for an oil change, and I can both see and hear the difference in the engines before and after.

I wouldn't use a heated solvent in a pressurized system, what we use at work (it seems to be pretty good,) is a gallon jug of cleaning solution (kerosens-based, I think,) that we pour in after draining the oil and changing the filter, run it for ten minutes with the engine hot, then drain it and change the filter again. The stuff goes in clear and comes out in a range of colors from light brown to as dark as used oil.

Unless you're doing a rebuild, hooking up any thing pressurized to the engine anywhere other than the intake* is a bad idea. A quick lube place (where I now work, ironically enough,) blew the engine on my mom's car with a pressurized injector cleaning system.

* - only use filtered, compressed air and/or cleaning solvents intended for intake/throttle body/manifold usage

12-29-2005, 03:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	Bilstein engine flush... Should I, or shouldn't I I have a Chrysler sebring with 140K miles. I'm thinking about doing this, but someone whose opinion I respect thinks it might actually be bad and introduce oil to areas that wouldn't handle it well. I'd like to regain performance and extend the life of my engine. I'm religious about maintenance and change my oil every 3 - 5k miles. Any advice? __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

12-30-2005, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	I that clarifies what my friend was trying to tell me. He is an engineer who designs jet engines. What about cleaning fuel injectors? Is that a ripoff too? __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

12-30-2005, 05:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	No. Fuel injection system service can be very helpful. Over time, deposits may be left in the injectors, or something of that nature. Properly done, they can be restored to like new condition. Throttle response, fuel economy, and power are all helped in this scenario. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-31-2005, 10:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	OK, well I'm definitely gonna pass on the engine flush and have the fuel injectors serviced. __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

12-30-2005, 04:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I don't know about Chrysler, but I know GM issued a tech service bulletin a couple of years ago strongly advising dealers to not do any Bilstein or similar type flushes, since the chemicals used for the flush may be incompatible with bearings and seals. Of course most of their dealers have these in place for reasons listed in the above article. If you change the oil every 3-5k miles like you do I can't imagine there would be any sludge buildup to worry about. Also, one of the first things I was taught in auto mechanics class is that if there is sludge in an engine, do not disturb it, unless you are doing a complete top to bottom engine overhaul. The reason for this is you may not get all of it out and then some residual sludge ends up finding its way into the bearings and wipes out the engine.

12-30-2005, 06:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	Fuel injection service is good. In addition to what DEI37 mentioned it can also help prevent misfires and if the injector were to plug up completely it would then have to be replaced, which costs a bit more than a fuel injection service. Since there really isn't any preventative maintenance on the fuel system other than changing the fuel filter, there isn't any good way of preventing these deposits from forming.