The ultimate sleeper - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DEI37 · 04-20-2003, 10:43 AM

If you were to build up a realistic sleeper, what would you do? I'm not talking about buying the car, but building one up, that one wouldn't assume to be quick. I.E....buying a GNX and/or building up a GN/GNX.

Here's my thoughts, hopefully to turn in to a realistic project:

1. Start with a 1997 Olds Cutlass Supreme sedan
2. Remove crappy 3100 V6 and 4T60-E transmission
3. Remove front brake hardware
4. Remove all four wheels and tires
5. Obtain either a L67 (Supercharged GM 3800 V6) equipped donor car, or entire powerplant stuff, including engine, trans, axles, wiring...stuff like that
6. Rebuild the L67 motor with a better valvetrain, P&P heads, performance cam, computer, headers, smaller pulley, CAI, full exhaust
7. Build up the 4T65-E HD transmission to take more torque
8. Install cross drilled front rotors, and possibly four piston front calipers, use race pads
9. Install slotted rear rotors, and replace the crappy GM rear calipers with something else, use race pads
10. Install Mille Miglia HT-3 18x8 rims in Carbon Grey, along with 225/40-R18 Bridgestone Potenza S-O3 Pole Position tires
11. Install various but necessary engine monitoring guages to keep things in check.
12. Keep up with Corvettes on the dragstrip!

This should be a $6000 or so project, yielding me a new motor, transmission, and other go fast goodies. The only outward cues will be the 18" wheels, and the upgraded brake hardware poking through.

bigbubba_21 · 04-20-2003, 11:04 AM

Call me strange but i wanna build up an 4door Aspen, that car would be the ultimate sleeper

DEI37 · 04-20-2003, 11:25 AM

I could see a built 360 in that car's future. Sounds like fun to me!

laconic1 · 04-20-2003, 11:32 AM

That Olds should be doable, the only thing I've heard is that at about 300 hp the trans gives up no matter what is done. Since the stock supercharged 3800 is 240 hp those mods would probably get you right to that point pretty quick.

0001 · 04-20-2003, 02:15 PM

No no. Ultimate sleeper is a beater 80's Volvo DL.

I've seen this done believe it or not. Car looked like total ass, but I noticed the guy had a rollbar on the inside as he burned past me.

mighty mouse · 04-20-2003, 02:25 PM

I have an 86 Olds Cutlass 4 door, already has a 307 V8 in it so the swap to a 406SB or 454BB may be done in a couple years behind the other projects. I don't think many would see the column shifted auto 4 door grandma car coming.

wraithhibn · 04-20-2003, 02:50 PM

I want to get a 92-95 Taurus SHO and build it up, the motor will go 150 stock, until the computer cuts it off. souped up it would be awesome, because its a family car. Maybe the 96-99 SHO with the V8 would be better.

Dougie · 04-20-2003, 03:32 PM

im with ya on the aspen... (i thought i was the only sicko)

only a 2 door, 440, 4 spd, Black primer.

DEI37 · 04-20-2003, 03:54 PM

The V8 SHO sucked big time. And there is no aftermarket for it really. Stick with the Yamaha powered V6 SHO...much better engine, and aftermarket.
The 86 Cutlass sounds like it'd be some fun. Personally, I'd stick a 427BB in it!

merkerguitars · 04-20-2003, 03:57 PM

I want to do a the same thing to my cadillac since the factory 4.1L doesn't get good gas mileage and it only has about 140hp and is slow.. I was thinking when I got the cash put some baer brakes on it. And then put a 3.8 supercharged engine in. It would also making working on it a little more pleasant too.

reconmike · 04-20-2003, 04:12 PM

mine is being cut up now...
1985 honda civic hatchback......
going in is SB chevy 350 with a front wheel drive olds tornado trans,
the honda motor and trans are out and we are welding the the "new" sub frame up soon.

spring snuck up on me and it is time to start heading to raceway park, englishtown nj to start bracket racing my 97 LT1 firechicken

mighty mouse · 04-20-2003, 07:31 PM

I thought the 86 Cutlass could be cool, just gonna depend on money i.e. how much we spend on the other cars first. Maybe a 454+ cubic inch engine with a centrifugal blower. No one would see the 700hp comin. hehe

Ashton · 04-20-2003, 07:54 PM

My friend took a little 74 Fiat and stuffed a warmed over 350 in it, just looking at it you wouldn't think anything of it... just a wussy Fiat, but it had to have 100 pounds of lead in the trunk to get any sort of traction..... of course the throaty V8 dual exhaust kind of gave it away though

shakran · 04-20-2003, 07:59 PM

best sleeper I ever saw was a twin-engined Econoline panelvan. Thing had a V-10 running the front wheels and a V-10 running the rears. Both supercharged. . . .that sucker was FAST.

BonneFan · 04-20-2003, 08:52 PM

I have considered droppin an L67 Series II 3800 with an M90 Supercharger, plus finding the proper tranny and PCM/ECM/wiring. And putting it into my 1989 Bonneville SE...now, thats a sleeper.

fastom · 04-20-2003, 10:31 PM

that little V6 would be no match for many of the sleepers i've seen. 600-700hp in a clapped out beater with whitewalls

Big block Chevy in a mid 60's Rambler American 4 door, stock wheels and quiet exhaust.

Restored Falcon with wire hubcaps, and huge power 5.0L disguised to look like the stock 260.

Aspen? Howzabout an early 80's St Regis... 4 door, ex fuzz, 440 with N2O

TR7 with 350, little 13" rims.

thadon · 04-21-2003, 02:47 PM

How about a Volvo w/ a LS1 V8. I ran across a site that had conversion kits to turn POS diesel Volvos into kick azz V8 street sleepers. My roomate has a 88 Volvo Wagon that the engine just took a dump on him adn I am thinking about buyinh the car from him for like $500 then dropping a V8 under the hood and it would be one killer ride for under $6k

MexicanOnABike · 04-21-2003, 04:16 PM

interesting idea.. go for it !! then post pics!

joe spade · 04-30-2003, 09:20 PM

Yup, can't waitto see that one, try 0% financing, a lot less hassle.

Ashton · 04-30-2003, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thadon
How about a Volvo w/ a LS1 V8. I ran across a site that had conversion kits to turn POS diesel Volvos into kick azz V8 street sleepers. My roomate has a 88 Volvo Wagon that the engine just took a dump on him adn I am thinking about buyinh the car from him for like $500 then dropping a V8 under the hood and it would be one killer ride for under $6k

The cool thing about turning a diesel into a sleeper is as long as you register it while it's running you never have to have it smog tested...... you can take a registered diesel and drop a killer drive train into it and never have to worry about aftermarket parts or stuff that wouldn't pass the visual inspection. You could go nuts and build a Rat motor for it and unless a cop looked under the hood you would get away with it......

rockogre · 05-01-2003, 06:49 AM

I built a sleeper out of my last Suburban.

Suburban???

1985 half ton, brown and tan.

Yep. Yanked the motor and trans. Built a roller motor, flat top pistons, hotter cam, high flow oil pump. Trashed the exaust and had a custom dual exhaust built and installed along with high flow Dynamax mufflers. Used a Holley fuel injection kit, and of course a K&N air filter. Three angle valve job. Had the trans custom rebuilt and fine tuned the shift rpms.

It would smoke the tires with just me in it. I just loved taking smart assed folks at stop lights. Passing on the interstate was a breeze. Hated to give it up but on to better and bigger things.

shakran · 05-01-2003, 07:02 AM

nothing too strange about a sleeper suburban. Liegenfelter made one in the late 90's that was fast as hell. Car and Driver did a nice write up on it.

MrGone · 05-01-2003, 03:40 PM

maxima
choose if you want an auto or manual
put some sticky tires on it

cheap route:
InJen Intake
Y-pipe
B-pipe (not so big)
UDP
nitrous

=12second car

fun route:
T04B Turbo
Spearco FMIC
Management Electronics
UDP

=xx second car depending on boost.

yeah, ive forgotten some things, but the you would be running on a stock engine with minor modifications to the engine.

MSD · 05-02-2003, 12:33 PM

A friend of mine is planning to drop a Spoon twin turbo into an Odyssey, replace the axles and tranny, and throw on a NOS fogger system. He thinks it's a great idea, I'll believe it when I see it.

pezking4 · 05-02-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wraithhibn
I want to get a 92-95 Taurus SHO and build it up, the motor will go 150 stock, until the computer cuts it off. souped up it would be awesome, because its a family car. Maybe the 96-99 SHO with the V8 would be better.

The V8 SHO's were pieces of crap. Go with the Yamaha built engine instead.

pezking4 · 05-02-2003, 12:59 PM

I wanna find myself a first gen maxima station wagon and fit an RB26DETT engine in :-D

MrGone · 05-02-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pezking4
I wanna find myself a first gen maxima station wagon and fit an RB26DETT engine in :-D

or you could build up this VE I have with your name on it......

really, I will put your name on it

RaDiAn · 05-02-2003, 05:38 PM

Has any seen the Dogde Omni that has the turbo? I forget what it's called exactly. Some kid I knew had on all done up. I had one look at it and said that's not much to look at. Then he had shown me what was hiding under the H@@D! Yikes! Then he ask me if I would like to go for a ride. That was the badest Omni ride I ever had!!!! Later he had told me all of the MODS that had been done. He had to have special half shafts made because he was breaking them on the track.....what a great ride, it didn't look like much, but it flew. He was very easily eating up the 5.0 stangs, he had a harder time with the BBlocks........Just thought I'd share my story!

pwhale · 05-05-2003, 06:13 AM

my friends 180SX was beaten buy a Daihatsu (Its a cheapo korean car brand) charade with a new turboed engine of somesort

DAM · 05-07-2003, 10:29 AM

78 Caddy with a 502 and some street carver suspension is my ultimate ride, coming soon to a boulevard near you

niner89 · 05-19-2003, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thadon
How about a Volvo ...

I think you're on the right track. Volvo cars have always been the stereotypical safe cars. Whether they are just solid tank-like vehicles like the '76-'93 240 series or the supertechnological airbag laden cars like the S60 and S80, they've always been associated with safety over performance. That said the ultimate sleeper will be (when they debut) the S60R, with an aftermarket ECU and exhaust system. A Volvo with ~350 hp is definitely a sleeper. It can be done, look at the '94-'00 850/S70 Turbos with modded 280hp! Boy, will the kid in the Civic be mad when he gets dusted by an 8 year old Volvo!

Atomic Pinkie · 05-22-2003, 01:46 AM

go to a junk yard, pick a shell, mod the shell, make it look like crap, leave shit dangling...let her rip

Scorps · 05-22-2003, 09:52 AM

Good car DEI37

WarWagon · 05-22-2003, 10:53 AM

I saw a Plymouth Reliant SE (K Car) with an EFI'd, NOVI blown 440 in it.

DEI37 · 05-22-2003, 03:08 PM

A blown 440 in a K-Car?

Does this guy have a death wish? I would like to see pics of that or something...that's just insane!

reconmike · 05-24-2003, 09:10 AM

here is a sleeper, supercharged cobra mustang motor in a focus, rwd screamer.
link

kulrblind · 05-19-2004, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
A friend of mine is planning to drop a Spoon twin turbo into an Odyssey, replace the axles and tranny, and throw on a NOS fogger system. He thinks it's a great idea, I'll believe it when I see it.

Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease keep us up to date on that. (I just bought a '99 Odyssey, and that sounds wild.)

BigTruck1956 · 05-19-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thadon
How about a Volvo w/ a LS1 V8. I ran across a site that had conversion kits to turn POS diesel Volvos into kick azz V8 street sleepers. My roomate has a 88 Volvo Wagon that the engine just took a dump on him adn I am thinking about buyinh the car from him for like $500 then dropping a V8 under the hood and it would be one killer ride for under $6k

word.
I know a guy who put a 302 into a early 240 wagon. Talk about sleeper. The only obvious signs the car was not stock was the larger than usual 2.5" exhaust.....and the sound it made when fired up....

theguyondacouch · 05-19-2004, 10:22 AM

Pinto wagon, 302 roller motor with a crazy hot cam. Drop a narrowed 9 inch in it with 4:10's... nice

etla · 05-19-2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DEI37

10. Install Mille Miglia HT-3 18x8 rims in Carbon Grey, along with 225/40-R18 Bridgestone Potenza S-O3 Pole Position tires

Was looking real good till you got to your wheels. If you want to have a sleeper keep the wheels and tires stock like. A set of 16" steel wheels and some 225/55R16s or similiar will go a long way to maintaining the "he'll never take me look" while maintaining decent grip. Might even be lighter than those 18" wheels. Or a set of GM factory 16" aluminium mags, lots of stuff came with 16" wheels over the years.

My favourite sleeper was a buddy's satilitte sedan. Had a worked over 413 pushing a 3.90 rear thru a 4sp. Had better than 400hp at the rear wheels and would take just about anything on the street while still looking like something grandma drove.

04-20-2003, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	The ultimate sleeper If you were to build up a realistic sleeper, what would you do? I'm not talking about buying the car, but building one up, that one wouldn't assume to be quick. I.E....buying a GNX and/or building up a GN/GNX. Here's my thoughts, hopefully to turn in to a realistic project: 1. Start with a 1997 Olds Cutlass Supreme sedan 2. Remove crappy 3100 V6 and 4T60-E transmission 3. Remove front brake hardware 4. Remove all four wheels and tires 5. Obtain either a L67 (Supercharged GM 3800 V6) equipped donor car, or entire powerplant stuff, including engine, trans, axles, wiring...stuff like that 6. Rebuild the L67 motor with a better valvetrain, P&P heads, performance cam, computer, headers, smaller pulley, CAI, full exhaust 7. Build up the 4T65-E HD transmission to take more torque 8. Install cross drilled front rotors, and possibly four piston front calipers, use race pads 9. Install slotted rear rotors, and replace the crappy GM rear calipers with something else, use race pads 10. Install Mille Miglia HT-3 18x8 rims in Carbon Grey, along with 225/40-R18 Bridgestone Potenza S-O3 Pole Position tires 11. Install various but necessary engine monitoring guages to keep things in check. 12. Keep up with Corvettes on the dragstrip! This should be a $6000 or so project, yielding me a new motor, transmission, and other go fast goodies. The only outward cues will be the 18" wheels, and the upgraded brake hardware poking through.

04-20-2003, 02:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
wraithhibn Dopefish Location: the 'Ville	I want to get a 92-95 Taurus SHO and build it up, the motor will go 150 stock, until the computer cuts it off. souped up it would be awesome, because its a family car. Maybe the 96-99 SHO with the V8 would be better. __________________ If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

04-20-2003, 03:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	I want to do a the same thing to my cadillac since the factory 4.1L doesn't get good gas mileage and it only has about 140hp and is slow.. I was thinking when I got the cash put some baer brakes on it. And then put a 3.8 supercharged engine in. It would also making working on it a little more pleasant too. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985 Last edited by merkerguitars; 04-20-2003 at 04:23 PM..

04-20-2003, 04:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	mine is being cut up now... 1985 honda civic hatchback...... going in is SB chevy 350 with a front wheel drive olds tornado trans, the honda motor and trans are out and we are welding the the "new" sub frame up soon. spring snuck up on me and it is time to start heading to raceway park, englishtown nj to start bracket racing my 97 LT1 firechicken __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

04-20-2003, 08:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
BonneFan Crazy Location: Ontario Canada	I have considered droppin an L67 Series II 3800 with an M90 Supercharger, plus finding the proper tranny and PCM/ECM/wiring. And putting it into my 1989 Bonneville SE...now, thats a sleeper. __________________ "I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters." - Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

04-20-2003, 11:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
bigbubba_21 Upright	Call me strange but i wanna build up an 4door Aspen, that car would be the ultimate sleeper

04-20-2003, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I could see a built 360 in that car's future. Sounds like fun to me!

04-20-2003, 11:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	That Olds should be doable, the only thing I've heard is that at about 300 hp the trans gives up no matter what is done. Since the stock supercharged 3800 is 240 hp those mods would probably get you right to that point pretty quick.

04-20-2003, 02:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
0001 Crazy Location: Canadeh!	No no. Ultimate sleeper is a beater 80's Volvo DL. I've seen this done believe it or not. Car looked like total ass, but I noticed the guy had a rollbar on the inside as he burned past me.

04-20-2003, 02:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
mighty mouse Crazy	I have an 86 Olds Cutlass 4 door, already has a 307 V8 in it so the swap to a 406SB or 454BB may be done in a couple years behind the other projects. I don't think many would see the column shifted auto 4 door grandma car coming.

04-20-2003, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dougie Tilted	im with ya on the aspen... (i thought i was the only sicko) only a 2 door, 440, 4 spd, Black primer.

04-20-2003, 03:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	The V8 SHO sucked big time. And there is no aftermarket for it really. Stick with the Yamaha powered V6 SHO...much better engine, and aftermarket. The 86 Cutlass sounds like it'd be some fun. Personally, I'd stick a 427BB in it!

04-20-2003, 07:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
mighty mouse Crazy	I thought the 86 Cutlass could be cool, just gonna depend on money i.e. how much we spend on the other cars first. Maybe a 454+ cubic inch engine with a centrifugal blower. No one would see the 700hp comin. hehe

04-20-2003, 07:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	My friend took a little 74 Fiat and stuffed a warmed over 350 in it, just looking at it you wouldn't think anything of it... just a wussy Fiat, but it had to have 100 pounds of lead in the trunk to get any sort of traction..... of course the throaty V8 dual exhaust kind of gave it away though

04-20-2003, 07:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	best sleeper I ever saw was a twin-engined Econoline panelvan. Thing had a V-10 running the front wheels and a V-10 running the rears. Both supercharged. . . .that sucker was FAST.

04-20-2003, 10:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
fastom Psycho Location: way out west	that little V6 would be no match for many of the sleepers i've seen. 600-700hp in a clapped out beater with whitewalls Big block Chevy in a mid 60's Rambler American 4 door, stock wheels and quiet exhaust. Restored Falcon with wire hubcaps, and huge power 5.0L disguised to look like the stock 260. Aspen? Howzabout an early 80's St Regis... 4 door, ex fuzz, 440 with N2O TR7 with 350, little 13" rims.

04-21-2003, 02:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
thadon Cruisin thru life Location: Alpharetta, GA	How about a Volvo w/ a LS1 V8. I ran across a site that had conversion kits to turn POS diesel Volvos into kick azz V8 street sleepers. My roomate has a 88 Volvo Wagon that the engine just took a dump on him adn I am thinking about buyinh the car from him for like $500 then dropping a V8 under the hood and it would be one killer ride for under $6k

04-21-2003, 04:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	interesting idea.. go for it !! then post pics! __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

04-30-2003, 09:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
joe spade Crazy	Yup, can't waitto see that one, try 0% financing, a lot less hassle. __________________ joe's git en go taco's-always fresh!

05-01-2003, 06:49 AM	#21 (permalink)
rockogre I aim to misbehave! Location: SW Oklahoma	I built a sleeper out of my last Suburban. Suburban??? 1985 half ton, brown and tan. Yep. Yanked the motor and trans. Built a roller motor, flat top pistons, hotter cam, high flow oil pump. Trashed the exaust and had a custom dual exhaust built and installed along with high flow Dynamax mufflers. Used a Holley fuel injection kit, and of course a K&N air filter. Three angle valve job. Had the trans custom rebuilt and fine tuned the shift rpms. It would smoke the tires with just me in it. I just loved taking smart assed folks at stop lights. Passing on the interstate was a breeze. Hated to give it up but on to better and bigger things. __________________ Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G. I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom Last edited by rockogre; 05-01-2003 at 06:52 AM..

05-01-2003, 07:02 AM	#22 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	nothing too strange about a sleeper suburban. Liegenfelter made one in the late 90's that was fast as hell. Car and Driver did a nice write up on it.

05-01-2003, 03:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
MrGone Tilted Location: WA	maxima choose if you want an auto or manual put some sticky tires on it cheap route: InJen Intake Y-pipe B-pipe (not so big) UDP nitrous =12second car fun route: T04B Turbo Spearco FMIC Management Electronics UDP =xx second car depending on boost. yeah, ive forgotten some things, but the you would be running on a stock engine with minor modifications to the engine.

05-02-2003, 12:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	A friend of mine is planning to drop a Spoon twin turbo into an Odyssey, replace the axles and tranny, and throw on a NOS fogger system. He thinks it's a great idea, I'll believe it when I see it.

05-02-2003, 12:59 PM	#26 (permalink)
pezking4 Crazy Location: NC	I wanna find myself a first gen maxima station wagon and fit an RB26DETT engine in :-D

05-02-2003, 05:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
RaDiAn Addict	Has any seen the Dogde Omni that has the turbo? I forget what it's called exactly. Some kid I knew had on all done up. I had one look at it and said that's not much to look at. Then he had shown me what was hiding under the H@@D! Yikes! Then he ask me if I would like to go for a ride. That was the badest Omni ride I ever had!!!! Later he had told me all of the MODS that had been done. He had to have special half shafts made because he was breaking them on the track.....what a great ride, it didn't look like much, but it flew. He was very easily eating up the 5.0 stangs, he had a harder time with the BBlocks........Just thought I'd share my story!

05-05-2003, 06:13 AM	#29 (permalink)
pwhale Upright Location: Dark side of the Moon	my friends 180SX was beaten buy a Daihatsu (Its a cheapo korean car brand) charade with a new turboed engine of somesort

05-07-2003, 10:29 AM	#30 (permalink)
DAM look closer she shaved her bikini line. You Whiner Location: deep in the heart of TX	78 Caddy with a 502 and some street carver suspension is my ultimate ride, coming soon to a boulevard near you __________________ I am the almighty pornholio, come out with your pants down!

05-22-2003, 01:46 AM	#32 (permalink)
Atomic Pinkie Addict Location: Chicago	go to a junk yard, pick a shell, mod the shell, make it look like crap, leave shit dangling...let her rip __________________ Where dem bitches at?

05-22-2003, 09:52 AM	#33 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	Good car DEI37 __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

05-22-2003, 10:53 AM	#34 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	I saw a Plymouth Reliant SE (K Car) with an EFI'd, NOVI blown 440 in it.

05-22-2003, 03:08 PM	#35 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	A blown 440 in a K-Car? Does this guy have a death wish? I would like to see pics of that or something...that's just insane! __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

05-24-2003, 09:10 AM	#36 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	here is a sleeper, supercharged cobra mustang motor in a focus, rwd screamer. link __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

05-19-2004, 10:22 AM	#39 (permalink)
theguyondacouch salmon? Location: Outside Providence	Pinto wagon, 302 roller motor with a crazy hot cam. Drop a narrowed 9 inch in it with 4:10's... nice __________________ "Lick my frozen metal ass!"