Badges? We don't want no Stinkin' GM Badges!
 

Badges badges everywhere... the make of the car, the model of the car, the special edition of the car, the dealership... how many more badges need to be put on there?

I prefer a clean looking vehicle with little markings. I'm not a fanboy of any make to have their ID prominently marked on my car. When I have my druthers, I prefer my car to be "shaved" of all those things.

My least favorite is the "dealer" badge. It frequently doesn't match the style/color/finish of the other badges, and if they are particularly lazy, it is also askew.

I've been a lifelong GM person, but they just keep doing stupid stuff like this instead of focusing on improving their core product.
Did it ever occur to them that the lack of GM association might be why people purchase those vehicles? The whole idea behind starting the Saturn brand in the early 90's was to have a brand that wasn't identifiable as being GM.
I like a clean looking vehicle with minimal clutter myself. When I buy a car in a few months the first thing I want to do is remove all the badging from it, regardless of what brand it is.

hmm... i just thought of this...

I know that GM owns Saab, but if I saw a GM badge on a Saab, I'd be as upset as if I saw a blue oval on a Jaguar.

The article that I read earlier today made it sound like GM was putting the badges on ALL the cars they make starting in '06... including Saab. I don't like what GM has done to Saab, they're just not the quirky (in a good way) little cars they used to be.

link

I'm a price purchaser. I look at the best bang for the buck, which is why for a minivan, I bought a caravan. when I bought a small car, it was a jetta demo. Now I am looking to buy a larger vehicle (suv or car) and am very attracted to the GM's Equinox or Vue. i am also attracted to the Ford Escape, which seems to be a more attractive package, althought price point is about the same. or a Dodge 300 for a car option.

Badges wont make me purchase a vehicle. price will. If they substitute badges for rebates, I'll be looking elsewhere.

What a bizarre move. I don't think someone who buys a Vette or a $75k Cadillac XLR would want the same badge on their car as a minivan, or a riced-out Aveo. I've known a lot of people who liked or owned Saturns but hated GM, not having any idea Saturn is a subsidiary. Ditto with Saab. Typical Chevy/Pontiac/Buick buyers are already perfectly aware that they are GM products. I don't see any benefit in this. Marketing people... :rolleyes:

I think their money would be better invested in things like, oh I don't know, making dashboards that don't have the look and feel of Tupperware that was melted in an oven and then spraypainted various mismatching shades of dishwater gray.

http://auto.consumerguide.com/images...1990003LRG.jpg

I have a distinctive looking car. The maker put the name of the car on both front doors and the dashboard and its model type on the hatch. I removed them all. If you don't know what I'm driving, you've been in a cave way too long. I also asked, no, INSISTED, of the dealer that under no circumstances was their badge to be on the car or I would not accept it.
1.3% decrease in sales? Gee, that's gotta hurt....and badging will help this how, exactly?
It's seems the powers that be over at GM are suffering from a severe case of brain fart. "we have no idea how to make our cars actually better, so....badge'em! Yea, that's it".
/me rolls her eyes......

My '88 Thunderbird had no less than NINE T-Bird emblems. One on the front, one on each C-pillar, one on each wheel, one on each side of the taillight housing, and finally one on the steering wheel. However the only thing identifying it as a Ford was the intake manifold and miniscule badges on the door sills. Olds did the same thing with the Aurora--the only place it was identified as an Oldsmobile was the radio.

In both cases the thinking was the same: "We actually have a good car for once, let's not ruin its image by identifying it with all our other pieces of crap!" Funny how GM is now doing the exact opposite.

i think it will hurt saab and hummer the most by far. People with pontiacs etc probably wont mind quite as much, but saab has always tried to have a sort of european style and attitude; so makin it blatantly gm is not a good idea. I think the only reason it will hurt hummer is that hummer doenst really need a manufacturer badge. No one price shops and compares other companies to the hummer, if you want one you want one, if you dont then you dont.

Something I found out about when I moved to the east coast... Mercedes has a feature that they put in their cars over here... ooo 4 wheel drive. They call it "4matic." Now, you can name your features whatever you want, but if you actually put that retarded name as badging on the back of your expensive car.... hell.

Why?

For a long time I thought the "4Matic" badge meant Mercedes was, for some insane reason, bragging that the car was equipped with a 4-speed automatic transmission. They definitely could've come up with a less ambiguous name.

almost all manfacs have their competitive variant since it's a good sale for the winter drivers. BMW with the x models, Audi's Quattro, Jag X-type...

and those add an extra badge... ARRRGH!!!

I do remember back in the 80's when people would put turbo badges on non-turbo cars, before all the greddy stickers of today's riceboys.

so... what kind of car do you have? You've gotten me curious

I'm really ticked off about this. I've been owning Saturns for about 10 years now and in the next 2 years they've got some smoking cars coming out like the Sky...

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...turn%20Sky.jpg

...and the Aura...

http://auto.zoznam.sk/img/art/saau21_41e01f45a5b30.jpg

...so just when it seems that the creating an interesting identity, GM decides to BRAND everyone with their stupid logo.

Let the divisions speak for themselves.

Now that you mention it, Acura has SH-AWD on their new RL. It's not retarded like "4matic" but it is badging for a feature. There is no RL that comes without SH-AWD, so why put it on there in the first place? Nobody knows what SH-AWD stands for anyways. Those who know that it means "super handling all wheel drive" probably already know that it only comes on the RL... yeah... badging is pointless.

I think the reason that GM is doing this is because they are dying.

Seriously.

They have what 8 divisions?

Chevrolet
Pontiac
GMC
Buick
Saturn
Saab
Cadilac
and Hummer (oh brother)

Talk about duplication.

Realistically, it should all be boiled down to two.

Honda / Accura
Toyota / Lexus
Nissan / Infiniti
VW / Audi
Ford / Lincoln
Chrysler / Dodge

Coming your way you are going to see

GM / Cadilac

This is merely getting the public ready for what has to be done once GM declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy and re-emerges after a top down re-org, including totally new deals with the UAW.

So what peel the badge off.... just like most people do with them butt ugly dealer badges

I haven't seen them as of late, but the old badges had holes they fit into. I know that my Neon has stickers for all their badges save the grill badge which is part of the grill.

Even still, taking them off takes care and time, time that I really don't want to have to take.

Those do look nice. How are their engines? It's been a while, but their engines were what kept me from buying one of their early models. The things rattled like a hopped up Briggs 5HP.

Back on topic, I'm with Kirk. GM & Ford are saddled with huge legacy overhead that takes the legs off any profits. The figure I heard recently was $1500/vehicle sold just to support their already retired workers. I'd go along with chapter 11, and likely halving their brands over the next decade. This badging, however stupid it looks, will ease the transition of successful models into surviving brands.

i think that has to do with marketing more than anything.

The old days even automatics were badged as automatics just like the initial turbos added turbo charged badging.

I liked when BMW bucked the trend and didn't badge anything for the mid80's 320is and the Ms.

Why would someone in their right mind do this? And they're gonna do it to GMCs? For gawds sake people, it has GM in the fucking name already! And you can't miss the various GM commercials when they are having some sale with 0% GMAC financing that lists the car brands they own at the end.

EEK. sad to know that GM will be pulling such a stunt. I hate lots of badges for because they are really tough to clean around and inside the letters. For removing them though, it shouldn't be too difficult, especially dealer badges. I really doubt they would put any sort of holes into your car for the dealer name, just run some floss behind it and pull that baby off.

I have to say though, I"ve never had a car with a dealer badges. and if I did I probably wouldn't buy it, it's just plain ridiculous to do such a thing.

They're just bored and have nothing else to do since they took away the Camaro and Firebird (bastards . . . )

saturn is using decent engines now, Ecotec, Global V6 coming to mind. both run smooth and quiet, and so far have made techs very very little money.

as for clearing brands, Chevy/Saturn are the only two targetting the same groups of buyers.
Chevy / Saturn = Value
Pontiac = Performance
GMC = Truck
Saab = European
Cadillac = Style/Performance/Luxary (targetting BMW, Audi, Mercedes)
Buick = Conservative Style/Luxary (targeting Infiniti/Lexus)
Hummer = Hardcore Offroad

So which market do you leave?

Sorry, I meant erasing divisions, not brands. Efficiency with marketing flexibility. The models will survive on their own merits if marketing doesn't lose too much grip.

Once they're all GM they can sell names however they like, with or without the classic badges. This intermediate step gives them time to infight and gauge public response. Re-jigging $nBil pieces will take mucho time anyway, especially if uncle sam gets involved.

Some brands are too profitable or cornerstone to erase: Chevy, Cadillac, Hummer... Execs would probably be assassinated if they wiped Saturn. Keep the names. Once they're all GM it's a shell game insofar as they keep adequate design & mfg abilities to cover their markets.

Quick swipe would roll Buick into the high end of chevy or the low of cadillac. It's still badged a GM Buick Regal, (and still a POS) but the actual division is gone. Hummer could roll into GMC, etc. Whatever most benefits them from an organizational standpoint.

As long as i can make the dealer take the off. They took som badges off of my S-10 When I bought it

This reminds me of all the logos and crap on clothes these days. Since when did we decide it was OK to become a walking (or driving) advertisement?

people keep buying into it, and they will continue to market it to us. thus the circle of product life.

today i saw and old cavelier from the 80s it had an ABS badge on the side.

I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of you.

I LIKE the badging on my car, especially if it's a model or feature (as long as the feature isn't standard).

For example, Volkswagen and Audi badge the back of all their cars with what style (1.8T, V6, 2.7T, etc. ) it is. It's a way to say "hey, lookit what I got" and a way for the person that spend the extra dough for the W8 to actually have it stand out. Same goes for the 4Matic in Mercs (4Motion in VWs). If you don't know what it is, then obviously it's not targeted to you. I WANT people to know that my BMW comes with the extra $4000 option of having AWD, or that my Crown Vic P71 can keep pace with their piddly little S2000

I'm not a big fan of manufacturers' badging, however - if you don't know who made the car, it's not going to impress you. GM's idea is terrible (I WOULD NOT buy a Saab if it had any mention of GM on it).

If GM whitled down to just GM and Caddilac they could officially just go ahead and sell them to Toyota because that would be done.
I mean you would be killing two of it's most well known nameplates in Chevy and Pontiac. Saturn is growing and is a small bright spot in the GM lineup.
I mean think about it would you want a GM Camaro,GM Impala, or GM Silverado? No. That would mean scrapping all the classic name plates and starting a new and that kind of would suck when you have a company that's nearly 100 years old.

And Ford couldn't limit itself to Ford and Lincoln. It's got it's hands in Mazda pretty heavy and they have a really good spot in that they let people who only buy Japanese cars without thinking give them tons of cash. Ditto for Volvo. They dump those brands and just sell everything as Fords and people will just look at the badge on the car and be like "Oh...that's an American car. I won't buy that." It's just how it goes. These companies obtain these nameplates because they know just the name is good for a few sales because a lot of consumers have certain biases and if you play to them you'll still get at least some of their money in the end.

And you are the market segment that they are targeting with those badges.

I just remembered a few other extra badges, boutique badges like Eddie Bauer Edition, Lexus had the Coach Edition and Anniversary Badges.

While I understand the badging for the technology to some degree V8 etc, when I see the Eddie Bauer Edition Explorers I just have to laugh because they paid extra for a name plate.

and personally I'd rather have a sleeper and catch you unsuspecting like...

Oh ya...forgot about that...that sucks

Boy, they missed the target.

Look for GM to go Chapter 11 in the next 5 to 10 years.

Their costs are out of control, their market share is less and less every year, their outlook is bleak, they have redundancy everywhere with all the divsions. GM has a very serious problem on its hands with health care costs for its workers (currently $1,600 USD of the price of EVERY car that was made in the USA is to cover just the HEALTH CARE costs, and that number is spiraling out of control.) Last year, GM paid more for health care premiums for its US workers than it did to buy all of the steel it used to build the cars. Add to that an underfunded pension plan, and decreeasing sales, GM as you know it now is through.

They still run themselves like they have 45% of the market instead of 20% and declining.

The fact of the matter is that they can't continue to operate like they are forever. That market share is gone and they will never ever get it back. There are too many players in the game. There are too many players that make a better product than GM. Even if GM were to somehow (it will never happen) design and build the best cars in the world again, they would never ever have 45% of the market again. Even with 0% financing permanently available and incentives galore, their sales are sinking and their outlook is bleak. GM shares are at a 12 year low. Even Harly Davidson has a higher market capitalization than GM.

They need to reinvent themselves.

GM will go chapter 11. They will emerge with 2 divisions, maybe 3, and that's it. You can call them what you want. Hummer can easily fold into GMC. Saturn has never made a dime, so it will be either sold off, or blend their technology into 2 cars in the main line. Pontiac, same thing, take 1 car (Grand Prix) into the main line, Buick, same thing, one car (probably the lesabre into the main line.) Then you have Cadilac which is trying to compete with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, etc.

GM will screw all of its creditors, close half of their factories, maybe more, they will scrap everything with the UAW, their pensioners will get a fraction, like 1/16'th of what they are getting now, shareholders will be left with nothing.

They will issue new shares and re-emerge with 2 or 3 divisions.

No, there will not be a government bail out either. In order to get a bail out, you have to have a business plan to sustain your operation. Merely throwing them a lump of cash would only be a temporary fix.

Think it can't happen.

Think again.

Rover MG in Britain just shut its doors last week throwing 6,000 people out of work.

Big deal you say?

Well at one time Rover MG was called British Leyland and they had over 250.000 employees world wide and were the third biggest auto manufacturer in the world.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...573902,00.html

Now they are gone.

Adding GM badges = rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic

arguably with buick, but they are just now activly tryign to reinvent tha brands image. however cadillac has done quite well with the Sigma cars (STS, CTS, SRX) in competing with BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Escalade continues to dominate its class, even though it is due for a redesign in the next 2 years. of all of GMs domestic divisions, Cadillac is probably the best at metting its demographic. Buick is where cadillac was in 98.

Gm to go bankrupt in 5-10 years? possibly but not likley. they are a very complex company with fingers in many different pies. we are only taking about their domestic car brands, ignoring the performance of thier overseas brands and other components in use. BMW for example uses GM's 5l40 and 5l50 5 speed Hydramatic transmissions. Holden is doing extrmely well in australia. while a BIllion in losses sounds huge, considering the scale the company work at it really isnlt as bad as it could be. they are already tryign to revitalize brands, spped development time (kappa platfrom took 2 years form concept to bring to market), and their reliability of ther powertrains is simply amazing now. i have seen genIII motors with 200k+ miles running like they only had 30. they cut the n.a american zeta cars because they would not be economical. enginnering has been spread across 3 continents, centered in michigan, sweden and australia, to develop platfroms and engines that can be used globaly. the new v6 in use in the CTS, is a prime example. its sees duty int he CTS, STS, SRX, rendevous, LaCrosse, and a turbo version is upcoming for the 9-3 aero. the epsilon platfrom gets used by chevy for the malibu, saab for the 9-3 and cadillac for the BTS in europe.

GM shares are actually up 2 bucks in the last week.

They now have a market cap of 15.17 billion dollars. Too bad their P/E ratio is 36 (this would be considered quite high for a blue chip manufacturers.)

Contrast that to say Home Depot.

Market cap of 78 billion with a P/E ratio of 16

I will agree with you that GM tends to make good automatic transmissions. Jaguar used to use a TH400 transmission, though now I suppose they have switched to Ford.

I would also agree that Cadilac has done OK, though they still don't appeal to me. They have a whacked out looking front end, and still look awfully big But they are getting better. Perhaps it's the Led Zeppelin songs in their commercials.

The CTS is your entry level caddy. I think they replaced the ill-fated catera with this one. (The catera being one of the biggest pant loads ever, right after that 4-6-8 disasterville POS, or the HT4100 engine, take your pick. )The HT 4100, which was Caddy's replacement for the one-year-only V-8-6-4, did more to shift the luxury car market to the foreign brands than all of the advertising men on Madison Avenue could.

The next level up is the STS which is all of a sudden about the same price as an Audi A-6.

For me, I'd rather have the A-6. It's a far cooler looking product than the big old caddy.