Badges? We don't want no Stinkin' GM Badges! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 04-13-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

GM to put corporate badge on its vehicles
By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY
DETROIT — George Fowler is ready to get out his heat gun and start making some adjustments.
LINK
GM will be placing these chrome badges on some of their 2006 models.

Fowler, who owns a Pontiac, Buick and GMC dealership in Dearborn, Mich., is sick of all the shiny metal badges attached to the cars he's selling. So he wasn't thrilled to hear Tuesday that General Motors (GM), which makes those three brands, plans to add two more chrome logos to the side of new cars.

The new badges are simple boxes advertising that the car is made by GM. The carmaker is attempting to make consumers aware of all the brands it manufactures and will put the badges on some new cars starting this month.

"It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my life," Fowler says. "These cars have enough badging on them now. People want clean-looking vehicles. They don't want cars that are badged up."

GM says people want to know who makes their cars. GM sells eight brands in the USA: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab.

"Research tells us that many of our most outstanding segment-leading vehicles are not associated by the customer to be part of the GM portfolio," Mark LaNeve, GM's North American vice president of sales, service and marketing, said in a statement.

GM has been struggling to figure out how to encourage buyers to purchase its vehicles without big rebates. The carmaker has heavily relied on large cash rebates since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The strategy has lost its effectiveness over the past year, and GM's sales are down 1.3% this year.

The company said its research shows a growing desire among consumers to know more about the companies behind their favorite products. Its recent "Only GM" commercials highlight its OnStar technology, which connects drivers to a live operator when air bags are deployed or when someone pushes a button inside the car.

The announcement runs counter to what GM has said its marketing plans are. The company has said it plans to do a better job differentiating its brand lines.

Eric Noble, president of consulting firm The CarLab, says consumers have a hard time juggling two brand names for one product.

The GM badges are "the sort of strategy that makes sense when viewed from the inside," Noble says. "Consumers operate in a world where time is their scarcest resource. You're lucky if they can remember one of your brands. To hope or plan for them to remember two is unrealistic and, therefore, a bad use of resources."

Badges badges everywhere... the make of the car, the model of the car, the special edition of the car, the dealership... how many more badges need to be put on there?

I prefer a clean looking vehicle with little markings. I'm not a fanboy of any make to have their ID prominently marked on my car. When I have my druthers, I prefer my car to be "shaved" of all those things.

Redlemon · 04-13-2005, 08:12 AM

My least favorite is the "dealer" badge. It frequently doesn't match the style/color/finish of the other badges, and if they are particularly lazy, it is also askew.

laconic1 · 04-13-2005, 08:17 AM

I've been a lifelong GM person, but they just keep doing stupid stuff like this instead of focusing on improving their core product.

Quote:

"Research tells us that many of our most outstanding segment-leading vehicles are not associated by the customer to be part of the GM portfolio," Mark LaNeve, GM's North American vice president of sales, service and marketing, said in a statement.

Did it ever occur to them that the lack of GM association might be why people purchase those vehicles? The whole idea behind starting the Saturn brand in the early 90's was to have a brand that wasn't identifiable as being GM.
I like a clean looking vehicle with minimal clutter myself. When I buy a car in a few months the first thing I want to do is remove all the badging from it, regardless of what brand it is.

Cynthetiq · 04-13-2005, 09:01 AM

hmm... i just thought of this...

I know that GM owns Saab, but if I saw a GM badge on a Saab, I'd be as upset as if I saw a blue oval on a Jaguar.

THGL · 04-13-2005, 11:50 AM

The article that I read earlier today made it sound like GM was putting the badges on ALL the cars they make starting in '06... including Saab. I don't like what GM has done to Saab, they're just not the quirky (in a good way) little cars they used to be.

link

Janey · 04-13-2005, 11:56 AM

I'm a price purchaser. I look at the best bang for the buck, which is why for a minivan, I bought a caravan. when I bought a small car, it was a jetta demo. Now I am looking to buy a larger vehicle (suv or car) and am very attracted to the GM's Equinox or Vue. i am also attracted to the Ford Escape, which seems to be a more attractive package, althought price point is about the same. or a Dodge 300 for a car option.

Badges wont make me purchase a vehicle. price will. If they substitute badges for rebates, I'll be looking elsewhere.

irseg · 04-13-2005, 03:06 PM

What a bizarre move. I don't think someone who buys a Vette or a $75k Cadillac XLR would want the same badge on their car as a minivan, or a riced-out Aveo. I've known a lot of people who liked or owned Saturns but hated GM, not having any idea Saturn is a subsidiary. Ditto with Saab. Typical Chevy/Pontiac/Buick buyers are already perfectly aware that they are GM products. I don't see any benefit in this. Marketing people...

I think their money would be better invested in things like, oh I don't know, making dashboards that don't have the look and feel of Tupperware that was melted in an oven and then spraypainted various mismatching shades of dishwater gray.

ngdawg · 04-13-2005, 03:40 PM

I have a distinctive looking car. The maker put the name of the car on both front doors and the dashboard and its model type on the hatch. I removed them all. If you don't know what I'm driving, you've been in a cave way too long. I also asked, no, INSISTED, of the dealer that under no circumstances was their badge to be on the car or I would not accept it.
1.3% decrease in sales? Gee, that's gotta hurt....and badging will help this how, exactly?
It's seems the powers that be over at GM are suffering from a severe case of brain fart. "we have no idea how to make our cars actually better, so....badge'em! Yea, that's it".
/me rolls her eyes......

irseg · 04-13-2005, 05:12 PM

My '88 Thunderbird had no less than NINE T-Bird emblems. One on the front, one on each C-pillar, one on each wheel, one on each side of the taillight housing, and finally one on the steering wheel. However the only thing identifying it as a Ford was the intake manifold and miniscule badges on the door sills. Olds did the same thing with the Aurora--the only place it was identified as an Oldsmobile was the radio.

In both cases the thinking was the same: "We actually have a good car for once, let's not ruin its image by identifying it with all our other pieces of crap!" Funny how GM is now doing the exact opposite.

GetRdone · 04-13-2005, 05:23 PM

i think it will hurt saab and hummer the most by far. People with pontiacs etc probably wont mind quite as much, but saab has always tried to have a sort of european style and attitude; so makin it blatantly gm is not a good idea. I think the only reason it will hurt hummer is that hummer doenst really need a manufacturer badge. No one price shops and compares other companies to the hummer, if you want one you want one, if you dont then you dont.

Halx · 04-13-2005, 08:14 PM

Something I found out about when I moved to the east coast... Mercedes has a feature that they put in their cars over here... ooo 4 wheel drive. They call it "4matic." Now, you can name your features whatever you want, but if you actually put that retarded name as badging on the back of your expensive car.... hell.

Why?

irseg · 04-13-2005, 10:02 PM

For a long time I thought the "4Matic" badge meant Mercedes was, for some insane reason, bragging that the car was equipped with a 4-speed automatic transmission. They definitely could've come up with a less ambiguous name.

Cynthetiq · 04-14-2005, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Something I found out about when I moved to the east coast... Mercedes has a feature that they put in their cars over here... ooo 4 wheel drive. They call it "4matic." Now, you can name your features whatever you want, but if you actually put that retarded name as badging on the back of your expensive car.... hell.

Why?

almost all manfacs have their competitive variant since it's a good sale for the winter drivers. BMW with the x models, Audi's Quattro, Jag X-type...

and those add an extra badge... ARRRGH!!!

I do remember back in the 80's when people would put turbo badges on non-turbo cars, before all the greddy stickers of today's riceboys.

Janey · 04-14-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I have a distinctive looking car. The maker put the name of the car on both front doors and the dashboard and its model type on the hatch. I removed them all. If you don't know what I'm driving, you've been in a cave way too long. I also asked, no, INSISTED, of the dealer that under no circumstances was their badge to be on the car or I would not accept it.
1.3% decrease in sales? Gee, that's gotta hurt....and badging will help this how, exactly?
It's seems the powers that be over at GM are suffering from a severe case of brain fart. "we have no idea how to make our cars actually better, so....badge'em! Yea, that's it".
/me rolls her eyes......

so... what kind of car do you have? You've gotten me curious

FunkyLamb · 04-16-2005, 11:21 AM

I'm really ticked off about this. I've been owning Saturns for about 10 years now and in the next 2 years they've got some smoking cars coming out like the Sky...

...and the Aura...

...so just when it seems that the creating an interesting identity, GM decides to BRAND everyone with their stupid logo.

Let the divisions speak for themselves.

Halx · 04-16-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

almost all manfacs have their competitive variant since it's a good sale for the winter drivers. BMW with the x models, Audi's Quattro, Jag X-type...

and those add an extra badge... ARRRGH!!!

I do remember back in the 80's when people would put turbo badges on non-turbo cars, before all the greddy stickers of today's riceboys.

Now that you mention it, Acura has SH-AWD on their new RL. It's not retarded like "4matic" but it is badging for a feature. There is no RL that comes without SH-AWD, so why put it on there in the first place? Nobody knows what SH-AWD stands for anyways. Those who know that it means "super handling all wheel drive" probably already know that it only comes on the RL... yeah... badging is pointless.

james t kirk · 04-17-2005, 04:57 PM

I think the reason that GM is doing this is because they are dying.

Seriously.

They have what 8 divisions?

Chevrolet
Pontiac
GMC
Buick
Saturn
Saab
Cadilac
and Hummer (oh brother)

Talk about duplication.

Realistically, it should all be boiled down to two.

Honda / Accura
Toyota / Lexus
Nissan / Infiniti
VW / Audi
Ford / Lincoln
Chrysler / Dodge

Coming your way you are going to see

GM / Cadilac

This is merely getting the public ready for what has to be done once GM declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy and re-emerges after a top down re-org, including totally new deals with the UAW.

Scorps · 04-18-2005, 10:45 AM

So what peel the badge off.... just like most people do with them butt ugly dealer badges

Cynthetiq · 04-18-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Train

So what peel the badge off.... just like most people do with them butt ugly dealer badges

I haven't seen them as of late, but the old badges had holes they fit into. I know that my Neon has stickers for all their badges save the grill badge which is part of the grill.

Even still, taking them off takes care and time, time that I really don't want to have to take.

cyrnel · 04-18-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyLamb

I'm really ticked off about this. I've been owning Saturns for about 10 years now and in the next 2 years they've got some smoking cars coming out like the Sky...

Those do look nice. How are their engines? It's been a while, but their engines were what kept me from buying one of their early models. The things rattled like a hopped up Briggs 5HP.

Back on topic, I'm with Kirk. GM & Ford are saddled with huge legacy overhead that takes the legs off any profits. The figure I heard recently was $1500/vehicle sold just to support their already retired workers. I'd go along with chapter 11, and likely halving their brands over the next decade. This badging, however stupid it looks, will ease the transition of successful models into surviving brands.

Cynthetiq · 04-18-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Now that you mention it, Acura has SH-AWD on their new RL. It's not retarded like "4matic" but it is badging for a feature. There is no RL that comes without SH-AWD, so why put it on there in the first place? Nobody knows what SH-AWD stands for anyways. Those who know that it means "super handling all wheel drive" probably already know that it only comes on the RL... yeah... badging is pointless.

i think that has to do with marketing more than anything.

The old days even automatics were badged as automatics just like the initial turbos added turbo charged badging.

I liked when BMW bucked the trend and didn't badge anything for the mid80's 320is and the Ms.

P-Naughty · 04-18-2005, 02:43 PM

Why would someone in their right mind do this? And they're gonna do it to GMCs? For gawds sake people, it has GM in the fucking name already! And you can't miss the various GM commercials when they are having some sale with 0% GMAC financing that lists the car brands they own at the end.

mandal · 04-18-2005, 03:40 PM

EEK. sad to know that GM will be pulling such a stunt. I hate lots of badges for because they are really tough to clean around and inside the letters. For removing them though, it shouldn't be too difficult, especially dealer badges. I really doubt they would put any sort of holes into your car for the dealer name, just run some floss behind it and pull that baby off.

I have to say though, I"ve never had a car with a dealer badges. and if I did I probably wouldn't buy it, it's just plain ridiculous to do such a thing.

Sue · 04-18-2005, 04:06 PM

They're just bored and have nothing else to do since they took away the Camaro and Firebird (bastards . . . )

Nimisys · 04-18-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

Those do look nice. How are their engines? It's been a while, but their engines were what kept me from buying one of their early models. The things rattled like a hopped up Briggs 5HP.

Back on topic, I'm with Kirk. GM & Ford are saddled with huge legacy overhead that takes the legs off any profits. The figure I heard recently was $1500/vehicle sold just to support their already retired workers. I'd go along with chapter 11, and likely halving their brands over the next decade. This badging, however stupid it looks, will ease the transition of successful models into surviving brands.

saturn is using decent engines now, Ecotec, Global V6 coming to mind. both run smooth and quiet, and so far have made techs very very little money.

as for clearing brands, Chevy/Saturn are the only two targetting the same groups of buyers.
Chevy / Saturn = Value
Pontiac = Performance
GMC = Truck
Saab = European
Cadillac = Style/Performance/Luxary (targetting BMW, Audi, Mercedes)
Buick = Conservative Style/Luxary (targeting Infiniti/Lexus)
Hummer = Hardcore Offroad

So which market do you leave?

cyrnel · 04-19-2005, 12:11 AM

Sorry, I meant erasing divisions, not brands. Efficiency with marketing flexibility. The models will survive on their own merits if marketing doesn't lose too much grip.

Once they're all GM they can sell names however they like, with or without the classic badges. This intermediate step gives them time to infight and gauge public response. Re-jigging $nBil pieces will take mucho time anyway, especially if uncle sam gets involved.

Some brands are too profitable or cornerstone to erase: Chevy, Cadillac, Hummer... Execs would probably be assassinated if they wiped Saturn. Keep the names. Once they're all GM it's a shell game insofar as they keep adequate design & mfg abilities to cover their markets.

Quick swipe would roll Buick into the high end of chevy or the low of cadillac. It's still badged a GM Buick Regal, (and still a POS) but the actual division is gone. Hummer could roll into GMC, etc. Whatever most benefits them from an organizational standpoint.

IanSturgill · 04-19-2005, 11:39 AM

As long as i can make the dealer take the off. They took som badges off of my S-10 When I bought it

Zeraph · 04-19-2005, 01:14 PM

This reminds me of all the logos and crap on clothes these days. Since when did we decide it was OK to become a walking (or driving) advertisement?

Cynthetiq · 04-19-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

This reminds me of all the logos and crap on clothes these days. Since when did we decide it was OK to become a walking (or driving) advertisement?

people keep buying into it, and they will continue to market it to us. thus the circle of product life.

today i saw and old cavelier from the 80s it had an ABS badge on the side.

TM875 · 04-19-2005, 10:01 PM

I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of you.

I LIKE the badging on my car, especially if it's a model or feature (as long as the feature isn't standard).

For example, Volkswagen and Audi badge the back of all their cars with what style (1.8T, V6, 2.7T, etc. ) it is. It's a way to say "hey, lookit what I got" and a way for the person that spend the extra dough for the W8 to actually have it stand out. Same goes for the 4Matic in Mercs (4Motion in VWs). If you don't know what it is, then obviously it's not targeted to you. I WANT people to know that my BMW comes with the extra $4000 option of having AWD, or that my Crown Vic P71 can keep pace with their piddly little S2000

I'm not a big fan of manufacturers' badging, however - if you don't know who made the car, it's not going to impress you. GM's idea is terrible (I WOULD NOT buy a Saab if it had any mention of GM on it).

Lockjaw · 04-19-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t kirk

I think the reason that GM is doing this is because they are dying.

Seriously.

They have what 8 divisions?

Chevrolet
Pontiac
GMC
Buick
Saturn
Saab
Cadilac
and Hummer (oh brother)

Talk about duplication.

Realistically, it should all be boiled down to two.

Honda / Accura
Toyota / Lexus
Nissan / Infiniti
VW / Audi
Ford / Lincoln
Chrysler / Dodge

Coming your way you are going to see

GM / Cadilac

This is merely getting the public ready for what has to be done once GM declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy and re-emerges after a top down re-org, including totally new deals with the UAW.

If GM whitled down to just GM and Caddilac they could officially just go ahead and sell them to Toyota because that would be done.
I mean you would be killing two of it's most well known nameplates in Chevy and Pontiac. Saturn is growing and is a small bright spot in the GM lineup.
I mean think about it would you want a GM Camaro,GM Impala, or GM Silverado? No. That would mean scrapping all the classic name plates and starting a new and that kind of would suck when you have a company that's nearly 100 years old.

And Ford couldn't limit itself to Ford and Lincoln. It's got it's hands in Mazda pretty heavy and they have a really good spot in that they let people who only buy Japanese cars without thinking give them tons of cash. Ditto for Volvo. They dump those brands and just sell everything as Fords and people will just look at the badge on the car and be like "Oh...that's an American car. I won't buy that." It's just how it goes. These companies obtain these nameplates because they know just the name is good for a few sales because a lot of consumers have certain biases and if you play to them you'll still get at least some of their money in the end.

Cynthetiq · 04-20-2005, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TM875

I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of you.

I LIKE the badging on my car, especially if it's a model or feature (as long as the feature isn't standard).

For example, Volkswagen and Audi badge the back of all their cars with what style (1.8T, V6, 2.7T, etc. ) it is. It's a way to say "hey, lookit what I got" and a way for the person that spend the extra dough for the W8 to actually have it stand out. Same goes for the 4Matic in Mercs (4Motion in VWs). If you don't know what it is, then obviously it's not targeted to you. I WANT people to know that my BMW comes with the extra $4000 option of having AWD, or that my Crown Vic P71 can keep pace with their piddly little S2000

I'm not a big fan of manufacturers' badging, however - if you don't know who made the car, it's not going to impress you. GM's idea is terrible (I WOULD NOT buy a Saab if it had any mention of GM on it).

And you are the market segment that they are targeting with those badges.

I just remembered a few other extra badges, boutique badges like Eddie Bauer Edition, Lexus had the Coach Edition and Anniversary Badges.

While I understand the badging for the technology to some degree V8 etc, when I see the Eddie Bauer Edition Explorers I just have to laugh because they paid extra for a name plate.

and personally I'd rather have a sleeper and catch you unsuspecting like...

Scorps · 04-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I haven't seen them as of late, but the old badges had holes they fit into. I know that my Neon has stickers for all their badges save the grill badge which is part of the grill.

Even still, taking them off takes care and time, time that I really don't want to have to take.

Oh ya...forgot about that...that sucks

james t kirk · 04-21-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimisys

Cadillac = Style/Performance/Luxary (targetting BMW, Audi, Mercedes)
Buick = Conservative Style/Luxary (targeting Infiniti/Lexus)

Boy, they missed the target.

james t kirk · 04-21-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

If GM whitled down to just GM and Caddilac they could officially just go ahead and sell them to Toyota because that would be done.
I mean you would be killing two of it's most well known nameplates in Chevy and Pontiac. Saturn is growing and is a small bright spot in the GM lineup.
I mean think about it would you want a GM Camaro,GM Impala, or GM Silverado? No. That would mean scrapping all the classic name plates and starting a new and that kind of would suck when you have a company that's nearly 100 years old.

And Ford couldn't limit itself to Ford and Lincoln. It's got it's hands in Mazda pretty heavy and they have a really good spot in that they let people who only buy Japanese cars without thinking give them tons of cash. Ditto for Volvo. They dump those brands and just sell everything as Fords and people will just look at the badge on the car and be like "Oh...that's an American car. I won't buy that." It's just how it goes. These companies obtain these nameplates because they know just the name is good for a few sales because a lot of consumers have certain biases and if you play to them you'll still get at least some of their money in the end.

Look for GM to go Chapter 11 in the next 5 to 10 years.

Their costs are out of control, their market share is less and less every year, their outlook is bleak, they have redundancy everywhere with all the divsions. GM has a very serious problem on its hands with health care costs for its workers (currently $1,600 USD of the price of EVERY car that was made in the USA is to cover just the HEALTH CARE costs, and that number is spiraling out of control.) Last year, GM paid more for health care premiums for its US workers than it did to buy all of the steel it used to build the cars. Add to that an underfunded pension plan, and decreeasing sales, GM as you know it now is through.

They still run themselves like they have 45% of the market instead of 20% and declining.

The fact of the matter is that they can't continue to operate like they are forever. That market share is gone and they will never ever get it back. There are too many players in the game. There are too many players that make a better product than GM. Even if GM were to somehow (it will never happen) design and build the best cars in the world again, they would never ever have 45% of the market again. Even with 0% financing permanently available and incentives galore, their sales are sinking and their outlook is bleak. GM shares are at a 12 year low. Even Harly Davidson has a higher market capitalization than GM.

They need to reinvent themselves.

GM will go chapter 11. They will emerge with 2 divisions, maybe 3, and that's it. You can call them what you want. Hummer can easily fold into GMC. Saturn has never made a dime, so it will be either sold off, or blend their technology into 2 cars in the main line. Pontiac, same thing, take 1 car (Grand Prix) into the main line, Buick, same thing, one car (probably the lesabre into the main line.) Then you have Cadilac which is trying to compete with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, etc.

GM will screw all of its creditors, close half of their factories, maybe more, they will scrap everything with the UAW, their pensioners will get a fraction, like 1/16'th of what they are getting now, shareholders will be left with nothing.

They will issue new shares and re-emerge with 2 or 3 divisions.

No, there will not be a government bail out either. In order to get a bail out, you have to have a business plan to sustain your operation. Merely throwing them a lump of cash would only be a temporary fix.

Think it can't happen.

Think again.

Rover MG in Britain just shut its doors last week throwing 6,000 people out of work.

Big deal you say?

Well at one time Rover MG was called British Leyland and they had over 250.000 employees world wide and were the third biggest auto manufacturer in the world.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...573902,00.html

Now they are gone.

abscondo · 04-21-2005, 08:44 PM

Adding GM badges = rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic

Nimisys · 04-21-2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t kirk

Boy, they missed the target.

arguably with buick, but they are just now activly tryign to reinvent tha brands image. however cadillac has done quite well with the Sigma cars (STS, CTS, SRX) in competing with BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Escalade continues to dominate its class, even though it is due for a redesign in the next 2 years. of all of GMs domestic divisions, Cadillac is probably the best at metting its demographic. Buick is where cadillac was in 98.

Gm to go bankrupt in 5-10 years? possibly but not likley. they are a very complex company with fingers in many different pies. we are only taking about their domestic car brands, ignoring the performance of thier overseas brands and other components in use. BMW for example uses GM's 5l40 and 5l50 5 speed Hydramatic transmissions. Holden is doing extrmely well in australia. while a BIllion in losses sounds huge, considering the scale the company work at it really isnlt as bad as it could be. they are already tryign to revitalize brands, spped development time (kappa platfrom took 2 years form concept to bring to market), and their reliability of ther powertrains is simply amazing now. i have seen genIII motors with 200k+ miles running like they only had 30. they cut the n.a american zeta cars because they would not be economical. enginnering has been spread across 3 continents, centered in michigan, sweden and australia, to develop platfroms and engines that can be used globaly. the new v6 in use in the CTS, is a prime example. its sees duty int he CTS, STS, SRX, rendevous, LaCrosse, and a turbo version is upcoming for the 9-3 aero. the epsilon platfrom gets used by chevy for the malibu, saab for the 9-3 and cadillac for the BTS in europe.

james t kirk · 04-24-2005, 12:10 PM

GM shares are actually up 2 bucks in the last week.

They now have a market cap of 15.17 billion dollars. Too bad their P/E ratio is 36 (this would be considered quite high for a blue chip manufacturers.)

Contrast that to say Home Depot.

Market cap of 78 billion with a P/E ratio of 16

james t kirk · 04-24-2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimisys

arguably with buick, but they are just now activly tryign to reinvent tha brands image. however cadillac has done quite well with the Sigma cars (STS, CTS, SRX) in competing with BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Escalade continues to dominate its class, even though it is due for a redesign in the next 2 years. of all of GMs domestic divisions, Cadillac is probably the best at metting its demographic. Buick is where cadillac was in 98.

Gm to go bankrupt in 5-10 years? possibly but not likley. they are a very complex company with fingers in many different pies. we are only taking about their domestic car brands, ignoring the performance of thier overseas brands and other components in use. BMW for example uses GM's 5l40 and 5l50 5 speed Hydramatic transmissions. Holden is doing extrmely well in australia. while a BIllion in losses sounds huge, considering the scale the company work at it really isnlt as bad as it could be. they are already tryign to revitalize brands, spped development time (kappa platfrom took 2 years form concept to bring to market), and their reliability of ther powertrains is simply amazing now. i have seen genIII motors with 200k+ miles running like they only had 30. they cut the n.a american zeta cars because they would not be economical. enginnering has been spread across 3 continents, centered in michigan, sweden and australia, to develop platfroms and engines that can be used globaly. the new v6 in use in the CTS, is a prime example. its sees duty int he CTS, STS, SRX, rendevous, LaCrosse, and a turbo version is upcoming for the 9-3 aero. the epsilon platfrom gets used by chevy for the malibu, saab for the 9-3 and cadillac for the BTS in europe.

I will agree with you that GM tends to make good automatic transmissions. Jaguar used to use a TH400 transmission, though now I suppose they have switched to Ford.

I would also agree that Cadilac has done OK, though they still don't appeal to me. They have a whacked out looking front end, and still look awfully big But they are getting better. Perhaps it's the Led Zeppelin songs in their commercials.

The CTS is your entry level caddy. I think they replaced the ill-fated catera with this one. (The catera being one of the biggest pant loads ever, right after that 4-6-8 disasterville POS, or the HT4100 engine, take your pick. )The HT 4100, which was Caddy's replacement for the one-year-only V-8-6-4, did more to shift the luxury car market to the foreign brands than all of the advertising men on Madison Avenue could.

The next level up is the STS which is all of a sudden about the same price as an Audi A-6.

For me, I'd rather have the A-6. It's a far cooler looking product than the big old caddy.

04-13-2005, 08:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	My least favorite is the "dealer" badge. It frequently doesn't match the style/color/finish of the other badges, and if they are particularly lazy, it is also askew. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

04-13-2005, 09:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	hmm... i just thought of this... I know that GM owns Saab, but if I saw a GM badge on a Saab, I'd be as upset as if I saw a blue oval on a Jaguar. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-13-2005, 05:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
GetRdone Psycho	i think it will hurt saab and hummer the most by far. People with pontiacs etc probably wont mind quite as much, but saab has always tried to have a sort of european style and attitude; so makin it blatantly gm is not a good idea. I think the only reason it will hurt hummer is that hummer doenst really need a manufacturer badge. No one price shops and compares other companies to the hummer, if you want one you want one, if you dont then you dont. __________________ Revere Jena Malone.......this is not a suggestion.

04-13-2005, 08:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Something I found out about when I moved to the east coast... Mercedes has a feature that they put in their cars over here... ooo 4 wheel drive. They call it "4matic." Now, you can name your features whatever you want, but if you actually put that retarded name as badging on the back of your expensive car.... hell. Why? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

04-16-2005, 11:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
FunkyLamb Crazy Location: New Orleans, LA	I'm really ticked off about this. I've been owning Saturns for about 10 years now and in the next 2 years they've got some smoking cars coming out like the Sky... ...and the Aura... ...so just when it seems that the creating an interesting identity, GM decides to BRAND everyone with their stupid logo. Let the divisions speak for themselves. __________________ FunkyLamb There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.

04-13-2005, 11:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
THGL Psycho Location: Louisville, KY	The article that I read earlier today made it sound like GM was putting the badges on ALL the cars they make starting in '06... including Saab. I don't like what GM has done to Saab, they're just not the quirky (in a good way) little cars they used to be. link

04-13-2005, 11:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	I'm a price purchaser. I look at the best bang for the buck, which is why for a minivan, I bought a caravan. when I bought a small car, it was a jetta demo. Now I am looking to buy a larger vehicle (suv or car) and am very attracted to the GM's Equinox or Vue. i am also attracted to the Ford Escape, which seems to be a more attractive package, althought price point is about the same. or a Dodge 300 for a car option. Badges wont make me purchase a vehicle. price will. If they substitute badges for rebates, I'll be looking elsewhere.

04-13-2005, 03:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	What a bizarre move. I don't think someone who buys a Vette or a $75k Cadillac XLR would want the same badge on their car as a minivan, or a riced-out Aveo. I've known a lot of people who liked or owned Saturns but hated GM, not having any idea Saturn is a subsidiary. Ditto with Saab. Typical Chevy/Pontiac/Buick buyers are already perfectly aware that they are GM products. I don't see any benefit in this. Marketing people... I think their money would be better invested in things like, oh I don't know, making dashboards that don't have the look and feel of Tupperware that was melted in an oven and then spraypainted various mismatching shades of dishwater gray.

04-13-2005, 03:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I have a distinctive looking car. The maker put the name of the car on both front doors and the dashboard and its model type on the hatch. I removed them all. If you don't know what I'm driving, you've been in a cave way too long. I also asked, no, INSISTED, of the dealer that under no circumstances was their badge to be on the car or I would not accept it. 1.3% decrease in sales? Gee, that's gotta hurt....and badging will help this how, exactly? It's seems the powers that be over at GM are suffering from a severe case of brain fart. "we have no idea how to make our cars actually better, so....badge'em! Yea, that's it". /me rolls her eyes......

04-13-2005, 05:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	My '88 Thunderbird had no less than NINE T-Bird emblems. One on the front, one on each C-pillar, one on each wheel, one on each side of the taillight housing, and finally one on the steering wheel. However the only thing identifying it as a Ford was the intake manifold and miniscule badges on the door sills. Olds did the same thing with the Aurora--the only place it was identified as an Oldsmobile was the radio. In both cases the thinking was the same: "We actually have a good car for once, let's not ruin its image by identifying it with all our other pieces of crap!" Funny how GM is now doing the exact opposite.

04-13-2005, 10:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	For a long time I thought the "4Matic" badge meant Mercedes was, for some insane reason, bragging that the car was equipped with a 4-speed automatic transmission. They definitely could've come up with a less ambiguous name.

04-17-2005, 04:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I think the reason that GM is doing this is because they are dying. Seriously. They have what 8 divisions? Chevrolet Pontiac GMC Buick Saturn Saab Cadilac and Hummer (oh brother) Talk about duplication. Realistically, it should all be boiled down to two. Honda / Accura Toyota / Lexus Nissan / Infiniti VW / Audi Ford / Lincoln Chrysler / Dodge Coming your way you are going to see GM / Cadilac This is merely getting the public ready for what has to be done once GM declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy and re-emerges after a top down re-org, including totally new deals with the UAW.

04-18-2005, 10:45 AM	#18 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	So what peel the badge off.... just like most people do with them butt ugly dealer badges

04-18-2005, 02:43 PM	#22 (permalink)
P-Naughty Crazy Location: Georgia Southern University	Why would someone in their right mind do this? And they're gonna do it to GMCs? For gawds sake people, it has GM in the fucking name already! And you can't miss the various GM commercials when they are having some sale with 0% GMAC financing that lists the car brands they own at the end. __________________ I will not walk so that a child may live! - Master Shake

04-18-2005, 03:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
mandal Crazy	EEK. sad to know that GM will be pulling such a stunt. I hate lots of badges for because they are really tough to clean around and inside the letters. For removing them though, it shouldn't be too difficult, especially dealer badges. I really doubt they would put any sort of holes into your car for the dealer name, just run some floss behind it and pull that baby off. I have to say though, I"ve never had a car with a dealer badges. and if I did I probably wouldn't buy it, it's just plain ridiculous to do such a thing.

04-18-2005, 04:06 PM	#24 (permalink)
Sue Teufel Hunden's Freundin Location: Westminster, CO	They're just bored and have nothing else to do since they took away the Camaro and Firebird (bastards . . . ) __________________ Teg yw edrych tuag adref.

04-19-2005, 12:11 AM	#26 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Sorry, I meant erasing divisions, not brands. Efficiency with marketing flexibility. The models will survive on their own merits if marketing doesn't lose too much grip. Once they're all GM they can sell names however they like, with or without the classic badges. This intermediate step gives them time to infight and gauge public response. Re-jigging $nBil pieces will take mucho time anyway, especially if uncle sam gets involved. Some brands are too profitable or cornerstone to erase: Chevy, Cadillac, Hummer... Execs would probably be assassinated if they wiped Saturn. Keep the names. Once they're all GM it's a shell game insofar as they keep adequate design & mfg abilities to cover their markets. Quick swipe would roll Buick into the high end of chevy or the low of cadillac. It's still badged a GM Buick Regal, (and still a POS) but the actual division is gone. Hummer could roll into GMC, etc. Whatever most benefits them from an organizational standpoint. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

04-19-2005, 11:39 AM	#27 (permalink)
IanSturgill Crazy Location: Lex Vegas, KY	As long as i can make the dealer take the off. They took som badges off of my S-10 When I bought it

04-19-2005, 01:14 PM	#28 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	This reminds me of all the logos and crap on clothes these days. Since when did we decide it was OK to become a walking (or driving) advertisement?

04-19-2005, 10:01 PM	#30 (permalink)
TM875 Addict Location: Amish-land, PA	I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of you. I LIKE the badging on my car, especially if it's a model or feature (as long as the feature isn't standard). For example, Volkswagen and Audi badge the back of all their cars with what style (1.8T, V6, 2.7T, etc. ) it is. It's a way to say "hey, lookit what I got" and a way for the person that spend the extra dough for the W8 to actually have it stand out. Same goes for the 4Matic in Mercs (4Motion in VWs). If you don't know what it is, then obviously it's not targeted to you. I WANT people to know that my BMW comes with the extra $4000 option of having AWD, or that my Crown Vic P71 can keep pace with their piddly little S2000 I'm not a big fan of manufacturers' badging, however - if you don't know who made the car, it's not going to impress you. GM's idea is terrible (I WOULD NOT buy a Saab if it had any mention of GM on it). __________________ "I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

04-21-2005, 08:44 PM	#36 (permalink)
abscondo Tilted Location: MI	Adding GM badges = rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic __________________ Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

04-24-2005, 12:10 PM	#38 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	GM shares are actually up 2 bucks in the last week. They now have a market cap of 15.17 billion dollars. Too bad their P/E ratio is 36 (this would be considered quite high for a blue chip manufacturers.) Contrast that to say Home Depot. Market cap of 78 billion with a P/E ratio of 16 Last edited by james t kirk; 04-24-2005 at 12:34 PM..