Man I WISH we would adopt this in the states. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ramega · 03-15-2005, 07:16 PM

There's a cool show on the History Channel right now about the Autobahn. They talked about how, if you are going slower than any other car, you MUST move to the right lane. You are only allowed to leave the right lane in order to pass another car. Think of what that would do for traffic in America? It wouldn't solve everything, but it sure would make driving a LOT less frustrating. Americans can be so self-involved.

They went on to say that Germans initially couldn't comprehend why Americans wanted cup holders in their cars. They look at driving as a completely involving experience, not to be spoiled by cell phones, food, or drink. You should be focused on what you are doing on the road.

How refreshing.

Nimisys · 03-15-2005, 07:29 PM

it actually is a law, but hardly ever enforced.

Seanland · 03-15-2005, 07:44 PM

also, the Autobahn has some crazy speeds, but in most dense areas, there is actually a little to the speed you can travel on the autobahn, so really what is the difference, except that ppl cant drive here

shakran · 03-15-2005, 07:52 PM

i'm watchin' the same show for the second time. Good doc, and really pisses me off that the US can't be more like Germany in that regard.

Did you note that the autobahn has .72 deaths per 100 vehicle miles driven, while the US interstate system has .84? That should tell us something. 1) US drivers suck. 2) speed limits are not the answer, better driver training is. 3) all this crap about traffic enforcement being for people's safety is one of the government's biggest snow jobs.

amonkie · 03-15-2005, 08:00 PM

Shakran, I agree with you about better driver training. My "sister" who lives in Germany told me that driving school was like $1500EU for her and her brothers apiece, and the test is actually a test of your skills, unlike most here in the US. As a result, many people obviously take driving much more seriously. If they fail the test, they have to pay all that money to take the school/class over again in order to get a shot at the test.

MSD · 03-15-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amonkie

Shakran, I agree with you about better driver training. My "sister" who lives in Germany told me that driving school was like $1500EU for her and her brothers apiece, and the test is actually a test of your skills, unlike most here in the US. As a result, many people obviously take driving much more seriously. If they fail the test, they have to pay all that money to take the school/class over again in order to get a shot at the test.

Isn't there a separate license that costs about 6 times that much to be allowed on limited-access highways?

I think that this is what we need, rather than speed limits and speeding tickets.

shakran · 03-15-2005, 08:07 PM

And what's really stupid about the speed limit argument is the concept that if the speed limit is 65mph, that means all cars are equally safe at 65mph, but at 70mph all cars are death traps. That's absurd. My 300ZX is a HELL of a lot safer at 95mph than a semi is at 55. I can still stop quicker than they can, I can turn quicker than they can, and if I do hit something, I still won't do as much damage as they will. Yet I'm stuck going the same speed as them.

They're toning speeds down to the "safe" speed for the least safe car. . Doesn't make sense.

amonkie · 03-15-2005, 08:08 PM

MSD, I am not sure about the seperate license - all of my literature and text books for driving human factors in the UK didn't mention anything.

thatoneguy · 03-15-2005, 08:10 PM

I couldn't agree more with the comments in this thread. American driver training is definitely sub-par. Most of the time it's kind of a "go through the motions" type of thing, and the test is pretty much unfailable, unless you are REALLY bad. I would love for there to be new laws and restrictions, make it a lot harder to get a license, not necessarily costs, as some people say it is in Germany and such, but there should be a lot more training involved.

I can't stand it when people on the highway don't stay in the right lane if they're slow, some people just stay in the left lane no matter what and never change lanes, my aunt told me once that she drives that way and I couldn't believe it. If everyone would drive how they're supposed to, there would be fewer problems by far.

shakran · 03-15-2005, 08:25 PM

Yeah, i don't think we necessarilly have to be paying 2 grand to get a license, but I do think it should be a lot harder to get and a lot easier to lose. There are guys running around with 20 + DUI's and they still have their license. Or people get their license suspended, but are then issued a work-license which lets them drive to and from work.

In germany, your first DUI gets you a bigassed fine, AND you lose your license. And you don't even get your license unless you can demonstrate that you can handle the car at speed in any driving situation that might come up. Here in the states, all I had to do was show I knew to stop at a stop sign, and parallel park.

Lockjaw · 03-15-2005, 08:54 PM

Hell in some places I don't think they even GIVE road tests. I honestly don't recall having a road test to get my license. I just remember taking the written test,taking drivers ed, and doing in car classes but no actual "test". But yeah we as a country need stricter qualifications on getting and keeping a license. I think if you get into a wreck it should be mandatory that you have to take driving classes in addition to any fines you may have to pay.

Wingless · 03-15-2005, 08:56 PM

My drivers training instructor a few years ago said on the last day, "It's hardly enforced anymore, let alone taught here in America, but always remember to 'Drive Right, Pass Left'."

Once you get out of the major metropolitan areas, from my somewhat limited experience, the drivers observe the 'drive right, pass left' rule.

Better driving training is definitely necessary. What needs to be expressed, without a doubt, is that driving is a privledge, not a right! That's the consensus here in the USA is - you're 16, you're a rightful driver then.

mazagmot · 03-16-2005, 03:39 AM

I can understand the price of driver training if it covers the cost of the training and licensing, which I'm guessing it does. I know for the driving test i took i didn't need to parallel park, it was just a drive around the block. fortunately, my dad made sure to give me some decent driving training on his own time.

splck · 03-16-2005, 07:34 AM

It drives me nuts (no pun intended) when I drive in the US. People drive slow in the left lane and often pass on the right. In order to mantain the posted speed limit you see people weaving across lanes in and out of traffic. I honestly think don't think it's ever tought in driver ed.
Keep right except to pass is such an simple concept.

todd · 03-16-2005, 08:22 AM

I think it should just be more difficult to get a license in the U.S. Not necesarly more expensive, but stricter requirements. I'm often amazed at what kind of people are allowed to drive on our roads. And it should be a lot easier to get your license revoked if you screw up bad. That would solve a lot of the problems I think.

Amnesia620 · 03-16-2005, 08:42 AM

Um, I'm sure it's just an error of clarification, but we DO have this already in the states. There are sections of highway in Montana and the East coast that are open speed zones, they mentioned this on the same channel...there are also a lot of factors that are taken into account for the Autobahn, and it was also shown that the autobahn isn't the greatest -most of it is packed with rushhour traffic and only a few parts of it are open speed zones. The utopian prospect to it is a tempting one but as it has been tried and true, society cannot be given a priveledge that they will remain responsible with because someone will mess it up for the rest of us.

bodypainter · 03-16-2005, 08:46 AM

I see this all the time. I'm in the center lane of I-75 with no one on either side. A car comes up from behind in the center lane and with both sides completely clear, chooses to pass me on the right.

Idiots. They ruin it for the rest of us.

Cynthetiq · 03-16-2005, 08:59 AM

there are laws like this already in some states.

California: Slower Traffic Must Keep Right
NJ: Right Lane For Passing Only

rarely enforced but laws are on the books.

GetRdone · 03-16-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnesia620

Um, I'm sure it's just an error of clarification, but we DO have this already in the states. There are sections of highway in Montana and the East coast that are open speed zones, they mentioned this on the same channel...

Actually, in 2003 or 4 i believe the us government changed this. They refused states there highway funding money if they didnt comply to the mandatory max speed limit of 75mph nationwide. Right now i think the only state without limits is Montana, because they didnt care about the hwy money (no one uses the roads) and refused the max limit.

Cynthetiq · 03-16-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GetRdone

Actually, in 2003 or 4 i believe the us government changed this. They refused states there highway funding money if they didnt comply to the mandatory max speed limit of 75mph nationwide. Right now i think the only state without limits is Montana, because they didnt care about the hwy money (no one uses the roads) and refused the max limit.

I thought that they had posted the limits but just changed the fine to around $5.

laconic1 · 03-16-2005, 03:06 PM

Montana has reestablished speed limits as of 1999
http://www.doj.state.mt.us/driving/drivingsafety.asp
and some interesting info about Montana highway fatality rates before, during, and after the reasonable and prudent speed limit laws
http://www.motorists.com/pressreleases/montana.html

Colorado just passed a law requiring people to drive only in the right lane unless they are passing. Of course in Denver or Colorado Springs that doesn't work since there is too much traffic, and the people in the rest of the state generally seem to do this already.

GetRdone · 03-16-2005, 03:36 PM

Its good CO passed that law. Ive driven there and all to often there are like older ladies in suvs goin 50 in the left lane, and u cant get by on the right because of trucks.....ugh.

DJMala · 03-16-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatoneguy

I couldn't agree more with the comments in this thread. American driver training is definitely sub-par. Most of the time it's kind of a "go through the motions" type of thing, and the test is pretty much unfailable, unless you are REALLY bad.

What irritates me the most is that despite the piss-poor training, there is a constant push for "safer" cars... mandatory seatbelts, air bags, crumple zones. Not to mention this insane "arms race" mentality... "I need a bigger SUV than the other guy so I'll be protected in a crash."

Isn't it a whole lot safer if you can just avoid the accident in the first place?

shakran · 03-16-2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJMala

Isn't it a whole lot safer if you can just avoid the accident in the first place?

Common sense ain't so common is it?

mazagmot · 03-17-2005, 02:43 AM

But it's too *hard* to avoid accidents. It requires the driver to actually pay attention to what's going on and actually be able to drive. If we start asking for personal responsibility on the roads, what's next? Personal responsibility in the home? In politics? It's a slippery slope, my friend, and one we would be wise to avoid.

JStrider · 03-17-2005, 08:31 AM

crazybill that second link you posted was pretty interesting

i see the lane curtesy problem a ton on my trips from texas to california at xmas and the summer
its really frustrating, you'll get a traffic jam behind 2 cars that are just cruising a long slowly side by side

i wasnt told about the drive on the left pass on the right in my drivers ed, but my dad made sure i knew and followed it whenever he was with me.

Jackebear · 03-17-2005, 06:08 PM

A few years back I drove on the Autoban in a new Citroen XM (very nice car). I was in cruise control at 240km/h. It was exciting and absolutely safe because of the general respect for the road. If you are in a slower car you stay in the right lane and if you have to pass a truck, you do it quickly and get back in that lane.

If you are in the left and a car behind you flashes you like an AMG, you move over, simple as that. No pissing around and slowing down because you don't like a car flashing you. I wish we had that kind of respect on the 401 between London and Toronto.

mirevolver · 03-17-2005, 07:10 PM

As someone who's been on the autobahn several times in several different vehicles I can say that it is definatly the safest roadway on the planet. Whether in a Pugeot doing 130kmph or a Mercedes doing 240kmph, as long as you follow the rules of the road there will be no problems.

And the process to get a license in Germany is intense. I have a cousin there who got her license when I was visiting last year. It took EU1800 and six months of driving school. And when she had a permit, she could only drive with a registered instructor in the car, unlike here where someone with a permit can drive with their parents in the car.

And the strictness of rules on the autobahn are more than just drive right, pass left. For example, if you run out of gas on the autobahn, that's a EU500 fine. The police see that as a road obstruction that you could have prevented (by filling up your tank).

Trust me, I can get extreemly frustrated with drivers here after having been on the roads in Germany. I really do wish we had some of the stricter rules on our roads that they have there.

mandal · 03-19-2005, 01:04 AM

Definitely agree with most of the comments made in this thread. I too never understood why people slow down when someone really fast is coming up behind them. Although I never tailgate, some people recommend others to hit their brakes at a tailgater, but I would just move my ass to the right where I belong. (although no one's ever tailgated me)

Also another reason why drivers in other countries are usually more attentive and such is that for the most part they drive a MANUAL GEARBOX. That means hands on the wheel and shifter for the most part. no extra hands to talk on the phone, read magazines, or drink in the car.

Atomic Pinkie · 03-19-2005, 01:55 PM

All minivans who go 65 in the left hand lane on 94 while everyone else is going 70-85 should be dragged out of their car and beaten.

I personally agree with the adopation of the open speed with harsher penalties and harder driving tests.

actinic · 03-20-2005, 10:17 AM

I remember back in 1986 when I got my DL, the test started with parallel parking and 3 point turns. Mess that up and you fail w/o leaving the lot. Now there are "driver training" cars everywhere and the level of new drivers are abismal. There's graduated licensing now and that doesn't even raise the bar or even maintain a level of competence behind the wheel.

I even took a refresher course last year to see for myself if there is a differece in the schooling from the mid 80's. There was even "gossip" of you can get a pass if you pay off instructor "X", "Y" or "Z". IMHO, it's a real joke.

03-15-2005, 07:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ramega Crazy	Man I WISH we would adopt this in the states. There's a cool show on the History Channel right now about the Autobahn. They talked about how, if you are going slower than any other car, you MUST move to the right lane. You are only allowed to leave the right lane in order to pass another car. Think of what that would do for traffic in America? It wouldn't solve everything, but it sure would make driving a LOT less frustrating. Americans can be so self-involved. They went on to say that Germans initially couldn't comprehend why Americans wanted cup holders in their cars. They look at driving as a completely involving experience, not to be spoiled by cell phones, food, or drink. You should be focused on what you are doing on the road. How refreshing.

03-15-2005, 08:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	Shakran, I agree with you about better driver training. My "sister" who lives in Germany told me that driving school was like $1500EU for her and her brothers apiece, and the test is actually a test of your skills, unlike most here in the US. As a result, many people obviously take driving much more seriously. If they fail the test, they have to pay all that money to take the school/class over again in order to get a shot at the test. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

03-15-2005, 08:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	MSD, I am not sure about the seperate license - all of my literature and text books for driving human factors in the UK didn't mention anything. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

03-15-2005, 08:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
thatoneguy Crazy Location: Omaha, NE	I couldn't agree more with the comments in this thread. American driver training is definitely sub-par. Most of the time it's kind of a "go through the motions" type of thing, and the test is pretty much unfailable, unless you are REALLY bad. I would love for there to be new laws and restrictions, make it a lot harder to get a license, not necessarily costs, as some people say it is in Germany and such, but there should be a lot more training involved. I can't stand it when people on the highway don't stay in the right lane if they're slow, some people just stay in the left lane no matter what and never change lanes, my aunt told me once that she drives that way and I couldn't believe it. If everyone would drive how they're supposed to, there would be fewer problems by far. __________________ "Thank you for flying Church of England, cake or death?"

03-15-2005, 08:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	My drivers training instructor a few years ago said on the last day, "It's hardly enforced anymore, let alone taught here in America, but always remember to 'Drive Right, Pass Left'." Once you get out of the major metropolitan areas, from my somewhat limited experience, the drivers observe the 'drive right, pass left' rule. Better driving training is definitely necessary. What needs to be expressed, without a doubt, is that driving is a privledge, not a right! That's the consensus here in the USA is - you're 16, you're a rightful driver then. __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor

03-15-2005, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nimisys Crazy Location: San Diego	it actually is a law, but hardly ever enforced.

03-15-2005, 07:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Seanland Psycho Location: Ontario, Canada	also, the Autobahn has some crazy speeds, but in most dense areas, there is actually a little to the speed you can travel on the autobahn, so really what is the difference, except that ppl cant drive here

03-15-2005, 07:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	i'm watchin' the same show for the second time. Good doc, and really pisses me off that the US can't be more like Germany in that regard. Did you note that the autobahn has .72 deaths per 100 vehicle miles driven, while the US interstate system has .84? That should tell us something. 1) US drivers suck. 2) speed limits are not the answer, better driver training is. 3) all this crap about traffic enforcement being for people's safety is one of the government's biggest snow jobs.

03-15-2005, 08:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	And what's really stupid about the speed limit argument is the concept that if the speed limit is 65mph, that means all cars are equally safe at 65mph, but at 70mph all cars are death traps. That's absurd. My 300ZX is a HELL of a lot safer at 95mph than a semi is at 55. I can still stop quicker than they can, I can turn quicker than they can, and if I do hit something, I still won't do as much damage as they will. Yet I'm stuck going the same speed as them. They're toning speeds down to the "safe" speed for the least safe car. . Doesn't make sense.

03-15-2005, 08:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Yeah, i don't think we necessarilly have to be paying 2 grand to get a license, but I do think it should be a lot harder to get and a lot easier to lose. There are guys running around with 20 + DUI's and they still have their license. Or people get their license suspended, but are then issued a work-license which lets them drive to and from work. In germany, your first DUI gets you a bigassed fine, AND you lose your license. And you don't even get your license unless you can demonstrate that you can handle the car at speed in any driving situation that might come up. Here in the states, all I had to do was show I knew to stop at a stop sign, and parallel park.

03-15-2005, 08:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Hell in some places I don't think they even GIVE road tests. I honestly don't recall having a road test to get my license. I just remember taking the written test,taking drivers ed, and doing in car classes but no actual "test". But yeah we as a country need stricter qualifications on getting and keeping a license. I think if you get into a wreck it should be mandatory that you have to take driving classes in addition to any fines you may have to pay.

03-16-2005, 03:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
mazagmot Crazy Location: S. Korea	I can understand the price of driver training if it covers the cost of the training and licensing, which I'm guessing it does. I know for the driving test i took i didn't need to parallel park, it was just a drive around the block. fortunately, my dad made sure to give me some decent driving training on his own time. __________________ d^_^b Got my headphones on.

03-16-2005, 07:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	It drives me nuts (no pun intended) when I drive in the US. People drive slow in the left lane and often pass on the right. In order to mantain the posted speed limit you see people weaving across lanes in and out of traffic. I honestly think don't think it's ever tought in driver ed. Keep right except to pass is such an simple concept. __________________ nice line eh?

03-16-2005, 08:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
todd Addict Location: Chicago	I think it should just be more difficult to get a license in the U.S. Not necesarly more expensive, but stricter requirements. I'm often amazed at what kind of people are allowed to drive on our roads. And it should be a lot easier to get your license revoked if you screw up bad. That would solve a lot of the problems I think.

03-16-2005, 08:42 AM	#16 (permalink)
Amnesia620 Forget me not... Location: See that dot on the map? I don't live there.	Um, I'm sure it's just an error of clarification, but we DO have this already in the states. There are sections of highway in Montana and the East coast that are open speed zones, they mentioned this on the same channel...there are also a lot of factors that are taken into account for the Autobahn, and it was also shown that the autobahn isn't the greatest -most of it is packed with rushhour traffic and only a few parts of it are open speed zones. The utopian prospect to it is a tempting one but as it has been tried and true, society cannot be given a priveledge that they will remain responsible with because someone will mess it up for the rest of us. __________________ For example, I find that a lot of college girls are barbie doll carbon copies with few differences...Sadly, they're dumb, ditzy, immature, snotty, fake, or they are the gravitational center to orbiting drama. - Amnesia620

03-16-2005, 08:59 AM	#18 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	there are laws like this already in some states. California: Slower Traffic Must Keep Right NJ: Right Lane For Passing Only rarely enforced but laws are on the books. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

03-16-2005, 08:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
bodypainter Psycho Location: Sarasota	I see this all the time. I'm in the center lane of I-75 with no one on either side. A car comes up from behind in the center lane and with both sides completely clear, chooses to pass me on the right. Idiots. They ruin it for the rest of us.

03-16-2005, 03:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	Montana has reestablished speed limits as of 1999 http://www.doj.state.mt.us/driving/drivingsafety.asp and some interesting info about Montana highway fatality rates before, during, and after the reasonable and prudent speed limit laws http://www.motorists.com/pressreleases/montana.html Colorado just passed a law requiring people to drive only in the right lane unless they are passing. Of course in Denver or Colorado Springs that doesn't work since there is too much traffic, and the people in the rest of the state generally seem to do this already.

03-16-2005, 03:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
GetRdone Psycho	Its good CO passed that law. Ive driven there and all to often there are like older ladies in suvs goin 50 in the left lane, and u cant get by on the right because of trucks.....ugh. __________________ Revere Jena Malone.......this is not a suggestion.

03-17-2005, 02:43 AM	#25 (permalink)
mazagmot Crazy Location: S. Korea	But it's too hard to avoid accidents. It requires the driver to actually pay attention to what's going on and actually be able to drive. If we start asking for personal responsibility on the roads, what's next? Personal responsibility in the home? In politics? It's a slippery slope, my friend, and one we would be wise to avoid. __________________ d^_^b Got my headphones on.

03-17-2005, 08:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	crazybill that second link you posted was pretty interesting i see the lane curtesy problem a ton on my trips from texas to california at xmas and the summer its really frustrating, you'll get a traffic jam behind 2 cars that are just cruising a long slowly side by side i wasnt told about the drive on the left pass on the right in my drivers ed, but my dad made sure i knew and followed it whenever he was with me. __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

03-17-2005, 06:08 PM	#27 (permalink)
Jackebear Insane	A few years back I drove on the Autoban in a new Citroen XM (very nice car). I was in cruise control at 240km/h. It was exciting and absolutely safe because of the general respect for the road. If you are in a slower car you stay in the right lane and if you have to pass a truck, you do it quickly and get back in that lane. If you are in the left and a car behind you flashes you like an AMG, you move over, simple as that. No pissing around and slowing down because you don't like a car flashing you. I wish we had that kind of respect on the 401 between London and Toronto. __________________ Life's jounney is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn-out shouting, "Holy sh*t! What a ride!" - unknown

03-17-2005, 07:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
mirevolver Inspired by the mind's eye. Location: Between the darkness and the light.	As someone who's been on the autobahn several times in several different vehicles I can say that it is definatly the safest roadway on the planet. Whether in a Pugeot doing 130kmph or a Mercedes doing 240kmph, as long as you follow the rules of the road there will be no problems. And the process to get a license in Germany is intense. I have a cousin there who got her license when I was visiting last year. It took EU1800 and six months of driving school. And when she had a permit, she could only drive with a registered instructor in the car, unlike here where someone with a permit can drive with their parents in the car. And the strictness of rules on the autobahn are more than just drive right, pass left. For example, if you run out of gas on the autobahn, that's a EU500 fine. The police see that as a road obstruction that you could have prevented (by filling up your tank). Trust me, I can get extreemly frustrated with drivers here after having been on the roads in Germany. I really do wish we had some of the stricter rules on our roads that they have there. __________________ Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. Last edited by mirevolver; 03-21-2005 at 04:27 PM..

03-19-2005, 01:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
mandal Crazy	Definitely agree with most of the comments made in this thread. I too never understood why people slow down when someone really fast is coming up behind them. Although I never tailgate, some people recommend others to hit their brakes at a tailgater, but I would just move my ass to the right where I belong. (although no one's ever tailgated me) Also another reason why drivers in other countries are usually more attentive and such is that for the most part they drive a MANUAL GEARBOX. That means hands on the wheel and shifter for the most part. no extra hands to talk on the phone, read magazines, or drink in the car.

03-19-2005, 01:55 PM	#30 (permalink)
Atomic Pinkie Addict Location: Chicago	All minivans who go 65 in the left hand lane on 94 while everyone else is going 70-85 should be dragged out of their car and beaten. I personally agree with the adopation of the open speed with harsher penalties and harder driving tests. __________________ Where dem bitches at?

03-20-2005, 10:17 AM	#31 (permalink)
actinic Crazy Location: Toronto, ON	I remember back in 1986 when I got my DL, the test started with parallel parking and 3 point turns. Mess that up and you fail w/o leaving the lot. Now there are "driver training" cars everywhere and the level of new drivers are abismal. There's graduated licensing now and that doesn't even raise the bar or even maintain a level of competence behind the wheel. I even took a refresher course last year to see for myself if there is a differece in the schooling from the mid 80's. There was even "gossip" of you can get a pass if you pay off instructor "X", "Y" or "Z". IMHO, it's a real joke.