former newt

hypothetically, if my parents were willing to spend $19K to $23K for a new car, what cars would be best to look into? remember reliability, comfort, performance, and practicality are all factors that should be met. 4wd is a must.

so far here's a list i can think of:

toyota rav4
subaru impreza rs
honda crv

anyone got any additions/comments to the list? how do subarus measure up compared to toyota and honda in terms of reliability?

waltert

I'd go with the subaru....

consumer reports should have reliability ratings for the subaru...go looking for it

irseg

Are you sure 4WD is an absolute must? I ask because most FWD cars can get around perfectly fine in bad weather, and you can buy a nice new FWD car in that price, or a mediocre 4WD vehicle. Based on your list I'd go with the Impreza RS. It'd be much more fun to drive than either of those downsized SUVs.

ems

ahh, if 4wd wasnt a necessity, i'd say go with a GTI

but since you need the 4 wheels spinning, i recommend a WRX non STi edition.

I don't think you can go wrong there. A few buddies have that car [one of them STi :drool:] and they havnt complained since the purchased um [some as far back as 2001]

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StanT

I had the same cars on my list and chose the Honda CRV. It was more fun to drive and the Acura designed engine blew the others away. Test drive all of them, The RAV4 didn't fit me beacause the pedals were too close together for my fat feet. I kept hitting the brake with the clutch. The Subaru looked good on paper, but seemed wimpy from behind the wheel. I spun the tires leaving the dealers lot with the Honda, love at first drive.

TM875

Well, I'd personally buy a Ford Five Hundred AWD, but I've always been accused by my friends of liking "old man cars".


Anyway, it's no question - go with the Subie. They've been doing AWD forever, and have perfected it. Besides, it will be much more fun, much safer, much more efficient, and just have an overall better quality than those mini SUVs.

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Lockjaw

See if you can scrounge up another 3 grand and get a Subaru Legacy GT.
AWD 2.5 liter turbo engine more room than the Imprezza.

billege

My wife's CRV has been everthing we want it to be. Not one small issue with it, everything to it is a pleasure to use. I don't know what else to say. It's a really great car. Thing is absolutely rock solid, feels very confidant on the road. Gets good mileage. It's an LEV....has all the options...it's just great.

As for quality and reliability, it's a Honda. Resale, all that, pretty much bulletproof. I mean, it's a HONDA. They basically don't break.

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irseg

Having owned a Cougar, Thunderbird, and Mark VIII, I've gotten a lot of crap about driving "old man cars" too. The 500 seems pretty nice, aside from the unproven CVT tranny and the underpowered 3.0 V6.

I drove a 2003 CR-V, and thought it sucked ass. Felt like I was driving a golf cart. It was really slow (especially above 30 mph), and handled like..well..an SUV. And one of my most miserable experiences was riding for 4 hours in the back of a RAV4. It was a first-generation model so I don't know if the new ones are any better, but it had NO room inside. The back seat was utterly miserable, I couldn't fit back there without sitting sideways so my legs weren't jammed into the seatback. And I'm 5'8", weigh 150 pounds, and think coach-class airplane seats have plenty of room.

I'd definitely take a Subaru (or pretty much any car) over one of those mini-SUVs. They're much more comfortable and fun to drive. My grandparents owned a few 80s Subie wagons, a Justy, a Loyale, and two Legacys. They really liked all of them; the only reason they don't still buy Subarus is they got on a large car kick and Subaru didn't have anything like the Grand Marquis and Sable they ended up buying.

GetRdone

The problem with the wrx is that it suffers from tranny problems. I have been witness to more than one class action lawsuit against subie for tranny breakage. Id say the problem with the ford is that its a ford. The crv is a good choice for the money. It's a honda so its reliable and will get good mileage for an suv. oh and StanT "the Acura designed engine blew the others away" ...an acura designed engine is a honda designed engine, but ya it is a nice motor.

former newt

thx for the replies. as for the tranny, i'd probably be limited to an auto, so if that changes anything, please say so.

GetRdone

so far ive only seen the subaru tranny issues on manual transmissions. However im not sure exactly what was specified in the lawsuit. U might be safer with the auto (although wrx is a waste with an auto).

former newt

is it though? i'm assuming that the auto is as good as any other company's. i'm not gonna be using this car for any serious, hard driving, so i think an auto's more sensible for me.

ok i have an addition to the list:

subaru impreza
toyota rav4
honda crv
saturn vue (with the honda v6)

soundmotor

We've put +60K on our MY02 WRX wagon w/ automatic. It is as tight and rattle free today as when we picked it up. It has had zero mechanical issues except for recall TSB's. It is a mountain goat in the snow and a rip to drive when the roads are dry. Gas mileage sucks and it does not have enough room however. That being said, we'd probably buy it again if above were our other choices. The RS is everything the WRX is, albeit with a little less power but certainly better mileage. If they weren't our only choices, we'd look at the Volvo V50 but it is more money to be sure. If you were to consider used, you can find ~50K Audi A6 2.7t's for the same money in excellent condition for your budget as well.

soundmotor

Ilow

The Subaru is by far the best of the ones you've mentioned For those who are referencing the WRX, unless you go used, you'd be pretty tight with that budget and he mentioned the RS (which I think is now called the TS) anyway. The new 2.5's are really nice and are actually faster than the WRX's when scooting around town (2.5=lots of low end torque, WRX=power at much higher RPM's). Non-turbo would give you about 30mpg highway and should give good usability and durability (and maybe not such a disappointment as an auto). Just my $.02, (and I do own an impreza).

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DEI37

The Saturn Vue AWD V6 would be a good choice. Can you actually get one for under $23k? If so, I believe that would be your best bet.

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Ramega

Buddy of mine just picked up a '98 Boxster with 6500 original miles on it for $20K. It's all about finding the deals.

Redlemon

Nobody has mentioned the Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix, which have an AWD option, and would land in your price range. I don't know anything about the quality, but they look pretty flexible and have decent gas mileage.

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soundmotor

That is a great suggestion! Way more usable interior space than the Impreza wagons too. I've never driven the AWD version, but the 180HP 2WD stick version is a hoot!

soundmotor

former newt

i haven't said this before, but the decision is 2 years away, so i'm anticipating changes in prices and model features.

i dunno about the matrix/vibe. the appearance of either just doesn't do it for me.

the impreza seems like a great deal for the car. as for the vue with the AWD v6, i think it runs into the $25K-$26K range...i'm guessing that would be pushing the budget.

my parents are wary of following thru on buying a used car at the budget i'm talking about. as in the case of the boxster with 6500 miles, doesnt $20K seem ridiculously low for only 6500 miles? even if u made a typo and meant 65000 miles, my parents would ask, "if someone's selling a 98 porsche at such a low price, what's wrong with it?" i totally understand where they're coming from, because some used car prices i've seen seem too good to be true. i guess my problem is paranoia. i always wonder if there's something wrong with the high-level cars being sold at half price.

stingc

Pretty much all non-exotic cars lose at least half their value after 5-6 years. Base Boxsters were only about $40-45k to start with, so $20k isn't hard to believe. You can get a lot of very nice used cars for $20k if that's the route you want to go.

former newt

hmm...

so this brings a new direction to this...looking for good deals on used cars...

i'd love to buy a used luxury or sporty car if it's in good condition...but how is resale? lets say i buy a used porsche/lexus/bmw/etc. and i decide to sell it. would i get even half of what i would have spent to buy it?

stingc

Yes, depending on how long you kept it, how well it was maintained, and so on, you would get half your money back. Resale is much worse when you buy new. You can look at ads online to get an idea of how quickly cars depreciate. You might also find this useful:

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....e&aff=national

former newt

hmmmm i get a message saying redirection limit reached....

stingc

Hmm, ok. Then search for "best resale values." You'll eventually find the (projected) resale values of any recent car.

BoCo

get a toyota tacoma x-runner. it's everything you need from cheap to dependable to practical to sporty.

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GetRdone

i like the x-runner in the medium blue color they come in, makes me happy

desal75

I could wholeheartedly recommend the Subaru. It should be much more satisfying if you are into spirited driving.

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GetRdone

well i think this car is for his parents, so im not sure if "spirited driving" is something they care about, compared to lets say "low insurance cost"

former newt

no it'll be for me. so, yeah i'm looking for a good package of sportiness and features. for the budget, i'm not expecting a rolls royce, but the impreza so far seems like the best for the money.

GetRdone

if its for u, then y are u getting an auto.....cmon. U gotta drive stick...to not is just.....not natural.

former newt

well in addition to me not ever driving a stick car, i don't really want to drive one all the time. although i'm pretty sure it's not a difficult thing to master, i'm not really experienced enough driving stick to get new car with a manual transmision.

GetRdone

understandable i suppose, sometimes for short trips, or traffic situations, stick isnt that fun. Oh, and........ stick isnt easy to master.....its easy to learn, takes some serious time and practice to master. Heel-toe, double clutching, 4 wheel drifting are not exactly easy....i still cant do all that well. heel-toe can be a bitch.

Scorps

I'm a chevy guy so if I had that cash it would be a Trailblazer.....Maybe a 00' or 01'

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GetRdone

dont those things get shit for gas mileage tho? Gas is like 2.03 in WI, so i wouldnt wanna have to fill up a truck.

Scorps

Well ya but I like HP...and hate almost all Imports.

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GetRdone

whats the hp on a trailblazer? The wrx would lay out 231 i believe, and its lighter and has a lower center of gravity. But if u hate imports....i guess thats up to u.

Scorps

Not sure of the 00-01' but the new 05 will have a LS2 so that about 380-400 max

I think the 00-01' have around 220 or 250 but thats a ballpark quess

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wolf

Toyota Camry all the way.

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former newt

i have a 95 camry now. i had a 99 camry before. i dont' really want to stay with the same car forever. but it is a great car.