f6twister

I'm sure some people will wonder why I don't know this but, I don't.

I've been driving a 2003 Toyota 4Runner for just over a year now. This is the first vehicle I ever owned which has ABS brakes. Last winter while driving in a snow storm, I had the usual asshole pull out in front of me and I started to slide when I applied the brakes. Now, in the past, I would put my vehicle in neutral which has always allowed me to stop quicker. I thought the rule with ABS is just to push the brake and hold. Well, I tried this and nothing changed so I popped it into neutral. I stopped almost immediately avoiding smashing into the back of the asshole who is now in front of me.

The main reason I put the vehicle in neutral is to stop the wheels from being forcibly turned. It seems to me that a combination of neutral and ABS would work the best but I think the rule is press and hold.

Are the combination of ABS and neutral acceptable or does it affect the braking system?

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albazeroex

to avoid sliding i normally just step on the brake and downshift;; shifting to neutral takes away engine power to the brakes so it just becomes the wheels spinning and ABS pumps the brakes; i havent tried it before but it may or may not be bad for the brakes depending on what kind of brakes u have;; ive never driven a 4runner so i dont kno

TM875

ABS is more related to wheel slippage than actual hard braking. In other words, if you were braking hard AND the wheels began to slide, then the ABS would kick in. Putting it in neutral shouldn't really have any large effect (assuming that it's an ATX), or, if it's Manual, is a very handy aspect to stick.

That being said, my ABS kicks in at any amount of slipping. Toyota's might just be computerized differently. Also, make sure that you were pressing the brake hard to the floor without letting up - if the brake isn't fully depressed, some ABS systems do no apply themselves.

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LLL2

I got a question,Doesn't that hurt the transmission(it's an auto right) ?

Ilow

I would say that unless the vehicle is travelling at a very slow speed (i.e. slower than the vehicle would travel at idle in gear, keeping the vehicle in gear would allow you to utilize engine braking which would give you a mechanical advantage in braking situations. Generally the simple "stomp and steer" maxim for ABS works pretty well, truthfully, pretty much as long as you don't remove your foot from the brake (i.e. pump the brake) anything else you do will have significantly less impact.

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catback

I too have used the neutral method and it really works well with or without ABS. Engine braking during a slide is folklore because your foot is on the brake doing all the braking with the intention of stopping yet the engine's purpose and desire is to move you forward. This really isn't the reason for the advantage but it saves your brakes some. The benefit comes from all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed with no torque applied, with a 2wd even though all four wheels are braking two are braking less than the other two not only fighting braking but also fighting traction because the two undriven wheels will be dragged/pushed by the drive wheels. With all this said I wouldn't recommend doing much of it on an ATX with ABS because it's added wear on the transmission valves and shift linkages for a slight benefit.

ok final answer you shouldn't need to do it on your 4runner

shakran

no, no, and no

engine braking is not folklore. If you don't believe me, wait till a day where the streets are dry, and go to a flat level straight piece of preferably lightly trafficked highway. Get it up to 60, then coast to 20. Time yourself. Get it back up to 60, put it in neutral, then coast to 20. Time yourself. You'll slow down faster with the car in gear because the engine is braking the car.

crwper

My impression has always been that the reason for shifting into neutral is to reduce compression braking, or otherwise to allow the wheels to match the speed of the road more easily. Generally, if I'm forced to brake suddenly in icy conditions, I pump the brakes and consider the options for moving to either side of the obstacle.

Michael

catback

Your reading it wrong, engine braking WHILE braking in a slide is folklore. Only in that scenario does that statement apply. Picture it your sliding, downshifted, and your foot is on the brake. Either your wheels are already locked up or they are going to lock up with or without the engine braking. As long as your foot is on the brake they will. The brake of the engine neither aids or hurts you, it's virtually non-existant.

Time my 60 to 20 eh, what gear should I be in during this? I have 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 since R isn't an option when going forward. I understand your point though but I will say comparing my auto tranny and manual tranny driving ventures, I've only drove one ATX vehicle that didn't feel like it was virtually in neutral when coasting. I'm not sure it if was working right or if it was messed up but I tell you as soon as you let up off the gas it was like downshifting a manual, now that was an engine braking ATX.

shakran

ahh, I get you. Well when you're in a slide, NO braking has an effect, which is why you should threshhold brake if you don't have ABS. But yeah, you're right that if the wheels are locked, engine braking doesn't have an effect - - -of course, the engine isn't braking the wheels at that point anyway because they aren't rolling. Shifting into neutral won't have an effect either.

crwper

If you are braking and then begin to slide, it's because the braking force on the wheels just became higher than the "static" frictional forces with the road. Generally, once you start sliding the friction with the road becomes much lower (dynamic friction), so you need to let the brake up quite a bit before the wheels catch up with the road again.

I think the problem with compression braking is that it puts a higher minimum on the braking force applied to your tires--so if you let the brakes off completely, you've still got a force which just might be enough to keep you sliding. So I think I agree with you. If your foot is on the brake, compression braking is not your biggest concern. But when you take your foot off the brake to recover from a slide, then I think it does become an issue.

When I started riding a motorcycle (just a couple of years ago), I got used to being able to downshift my way basically to a stop at lights. It's totally ruined the pleasure I used to take in downshifting the car to decelerate.

Michael

kurty[B]

I watched two cars today lock up their brakes and go sailing into intersections causing wonderful accidents. I prefer to give myself lots and lots of yardage between cars in the snow, and using the engine to slow myslef down (Manual Transmission), and then braking when I below 10 mph just to ease myself to a complete stop while in 1st.

Now, not having ABS, and having to quickly brake because of jerk who pulled right in front of me, or decided to make a right turn from the left lane right in front of me at the last second... Well, then I leave it in gear and start pumping on the brakes. I made the mistake one-time while I was in RWD (drive a '95 4runner) of dropping gears when someone cut me off on ice, and the added power to the rear wheel sent me into a spin, I wave hello to everyone behind me and then gassed it once I was facing the correct direction again, somehow I pulled a 360 on a 3-lane road, and came right out of it. I dropped it into 4WD at the light, and the guy in the VW Touraq next to me was giving me two thumbs up, while I was trying to keep my heart from jumping out of my chest.

I'm gonna have to find an abandoned parking lot and find out if neutral or having it in gear and doing my brake-pumping is more effective.

If I'm going for style, then E-Brake all the way!!

GetRdone

I really wouldnt think that putting it in nuetral in an auto would do much, but i do know when driving stick keeping it in gear adds drag and slow u down. I was driving my moms Bravada today, and it has one of those "smart" 4wheel drive systems, tryin to slide that thing gets tough, u have to try to predict what the system that is trying to predict u is doing. Confusing.