Getting rid of most of my emissions equipment. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

merkerguitars · 10-31-2004, 09:30 PM

Well I have a 1987 Cadillac Deville 4.1L V8. I was going about the engine compartment and was looking at it....and got to thinking Do I exactly need ALL that emissions crap? I have some solenoids on the back valve cover that have hoses that come from the smog pump. Also I have a vacuum acutauted egr valve (which will be easy to cheat) So for those solenoids and other parts...do I have to use resistors to cheat any of the parts? Since I live in a part of Wisconsin that doesn't do emissions testing, and I'll probably be the last person to own the car I don't car about gutting it. I'll post pic later on to tell you what I want to remove.

BigTruck1956 · 11-03-2004, 04:07 PM

is it fuel injected?

Scorps · 11-03-2004, 04:17 PM

You got another 3 or 4 year to wait but if your city doesn't do emissions then your all clear...all it will do is give you a little more HP. But there are emissions gaskets on the exhaust manifolds mine had them, so I didn't put any back in

I don't really know what a car like that has on it for emissions, moslty because all the cars my dad has own are built before 84'

bodypainter · 11-03-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTruck1956

is it fuel injected?

I'm pretty certain that car would be.

Peryn · 11-03-2004, 06:27 PM

For the most part, cheating emmissions equipment doesn't really net you any gains. On modern cars, it will even hurt them. Your smog pump simlpy moves air. It doesn't pressurize anything like a blower does, so it will only rob MAYBE a 1/2 hp. While the point of EGR is to rob power, you have to consider what it does. It keeps combustion temperatures down, helping to reduce NOx, but also helping to prevent pinging. You need to take into account that getting rid of your EGR will also increase combustin temperatures. As far as the cat goes, you can go ahead and get rid of that to make the exhaust flow better, though that is kind of useless without be able to get more air into the engine. What else....umm... EVAP. That charcoal cannister is part of the emissions equipment, but takes away zero performance, and saves gas. You might want to keep it. Theres the hot air pipe for the intake, its considered emissions equipment. Helps it warm up faster and again, as long as its functionning correctly, helps you without robbing power. I suppose you could ditch the clutched fan (if it has one) for an electric one, get an extra hp or so, maybe even go so far as to ditch the power steering.

But really, given that its an 84, its power output is going to suck. Emissions equipment is the least of your worries if you want better performance.

Boo · 11-03-2004, 07:15 PM

I suggest leaving it on the car. You will most likely lose performance and fuel economy if you take it off. You computer will not function properly without the added gear.

If it does not work, get it fixed. The earth will love you in return.

tablett · 11-04-2004, 01:49 PM

You will fail visual inspection if they look under the hood. The smog pump removal would add a little bit of horse though. Not enough to risk having to put that crap back on if you fail.

kutulu · 11-04-2004, 04:52 PM

Whether you have testing or not isn't the issue. It is selfish to remove that equpiment and seriously fucked up. You could rob a store and get away with it. Does that make it right?

merkerguitars · 11-04-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Whether you have testing or not isn't the issue. It is selfish to remove that equpiment and seriously fucked up. You could rob a store and get away with it. Does that make it right?

Ok yeah whatever.....so me removing all the emmissions equipment and the catalytic converter and put on a bigger carb a wrong thing??

mighty mouse · 11-04-2004, 05:42 PM

Blah. Whatever. I have an '86 Olds Cutlass Supreme that is loaded with shit. I put a hollowed out cat in it and a built-by-Me Q-Jet. Runs 100x better than before and still passes emissions.

Its true though that removing all of the emissions stuff really isn't going to return a lot of power. But, a high flow cat and a little air/fuel work can do wonders for them.

kutulu · 11-05-2004, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merkerguitars

Ok yeah whatever.....so me removing all the emmissions equipment and the catalytic converter and put on a bigger carb a wrong thing??

yes it is a wrong thing. that shit is on there for a reason. that equipment drastically cuts pollution. if everyone did that our air quality would be fucked. what gives you the right to do what others can't?

merkerguitars · 11-05-2004, 12:46 PM

Well it's legal in wisconsin to remove it

Scorps · 11-05-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merkerguitars

Ok yeah whatever.....so me removing all the emmissions equipment and the catalytic converter and put on a bigger carb a wrong thing??

I would do it

BigTruck1956 · 11-08-2004, 12:53 AM

your primary concern is engine management. Removing all of your emissions equipment will deprive your engine's computer of the sensors it needs to make the engine run properly. Essentially, your performance will decrease since the computer relies on all of those vacuum hoses and related parts to properly manage the fuel-air ratio. If you wanted to go nuts, I would replace the intake and use non-electronically controlled carb. Although unless you do a cam change, I doubt you will increase performance significantly.

big_bubba · 11-10-2004, 04:38 PM

In Ontario, a car older than 20 is emissions exempt. My Dart is a '76. SO I kept this in mind when assembling the car.....no cats, EGR, or any of that BS. Wrong? Don't care. It's legal and my car runs better and performs better without it.

Merker, I don't know about your '87 Caddy, but if it doesn't need that crap to run (everything being controlled by computers and what not) I'd ditch it.

Peryn · 11-10-2004, 08:07 PM

Not sure about other places, but in california 30yrs+ on a car and its exempt from the bi-annual amog checks. It is still ILLEGAL to modify the emmissions equipment on those cars. It doesn't get smogged, so you wont get caught, but none the less, its still illegal. Chances are, if you read the law, its like that in other states as well.

Boo · 11-10-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merkerguitars

Ok yeah whatever.....so me removing all the emmissions equipment and the catalytic converter and put on a bigger carb a wrong thing??

Wrong, well maybe. If you consider what it takes to turn a fuel injected car into a carbureted one. New cam, ignition, manifolds, exhaust, transmission (is it electronically controlled?), etc.... You could buy a very nice new car for the same amount of money and have something with a bit of resale. I suggest calling a performance shop and asking them what your idea has for potential.

It sounds like a money pit to me. I am sure that if you want it bad enough, that you can make it a screamin' 14-15 sec machine for around $5,000.

Best of luck to you.

merkerguitars · 11-11-2004, 09:43 AM

Well if I wanted full out performance in that car I would do two things (if I had the money) either drop in a L67 engine or some company takes the 4.9 cadillac engine and punches it out to a 5.0. I work at a performance shop and there barely anything out there for performace, (besides plugs wires and maybe a throttle body) I think I might fab a cold air intake though and call it good I already thrown a good coil in the car. The car isn't really worth any money to do anything to since it's my daily beater, and for performance thats what I have my mustang for. What I used to do when I owned a couple of mid 80's GM rwd drive cars with the half assed computer system was just gut out the cat and put on an aftermarket intake and carb and that made them run sooo much better.

kazoo · 11-13-2004, 10:34 PM

In PA, older vehicles get a visual check to ensure that all factory installed equipment per the VIN code (which tells what engine the vehicle was manufactured with) is present.

Nimisys · 11-14-2004, 01:37 PM

its also a 4100 cadillac. those suck. those sucked even when put against the rest of the gm standard of the 80's. those engines (the 4.1, 4.5 and even 4.9) were probably the biggest problem children gm ever made, and that includes the the 350 desiel olds motors.

just leave it alone and pray you can get somethng else before it dies.

sasKuach · 11-15-2004, 10:37 PM

Just gut the cat and put it back in to pass a visual. It sounds MUCH better. And runs better too. My '89 F250 has "true duals" with no cat, and it's truly awesome. If your car is running well, there should be no extra emissions; cats are more of a safety net. And the 'puter should be able to adjust.

10-31-2004, 09:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Getting rid of most of my emissions equipment. Well I have a 1987 Cadillac Deville 4.1L V8. I was going about the engine compartment and was looking at it....and got to thinking Do I exactly need ALL that emissions crap? I have some solenoids on the back valve cover that have hoses that come from the smog pump. Also I have a vacuum acutauted egr valve (which will be easy to cheat) So for those solenoids and other parts...do I have to use resistors to cheat any of the parts? Since I live in a part of Wisconsin that doesn't do emissions testing, and I'll probably be the last person to own the car I don't car about gutting it. I'll post pic later on to tell you what I want to remove. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

11-03-2004, 04:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
BigTruck1956 Psycho Location: norcal	is it fuel injected? __________________ so much to do, so little time.....at least i aint bored.

11-03-2004, 04:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	You got another 3 or 4 year to wait but if your city doesn't do emissions then your all clear...all it will do is give you a little more HP. But there are emissions gaskets on the exhaust manifolds mine had them, so I didn't put any back in I don't really know what a car like that has on it for emissions, moslty because all the cars my dad has own are built before 84' Last edited by Scorps; 11-03-2004 at 04:19 PM..

11-03-2004, 06:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	For the most part, cheating emmissions equipment doesn't really net you any gains. On modern cars, it will even hurt them. Your smog pump simlpy moves air. It doesn't pressurize anything like a blower does, so it will only rob MAYBE a 1/2 hp. While the point of EGR is to rob power, you have to consider what it does. It keeps combustion temperatures down, helping to reduce NOx, but also helping to prevent pinging. You need to take into account that getting rid of your EGR will also increase combustin temperatures. As far as the cat goes, you can go ahead and get rid of that to make the exhaust flow better, though that is kind of useless without be able to get more air into the engine. What else....umm... EVAP. That charcoal cannister is part of the emissions equipment, but takes away zero performance, and saves gas. You might want to keep it. Theres the hot air pipe for the intake, its considered emissions equipment. Helps it warm up faster and again, as long as its functionning correctly, helps you without robbing power. I suppose you could ditch the clutched fan (if it has one) for an electric one, get an extra hp or so, maybe even go so far as to ditch the power steering. But really, given that its an 84, its power output is going to suck. Emissions equipment is the least of your worries if you want better performance. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

11-03-2004, 07:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	I suggest leaving it on the car. You will most likely lose performance and fuel economy if you take it off. You computer will not function properly without the added gear. If it does not work, get it fixed. The earth will love you in return. __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.

11-04-2004, 01:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
tablett Upright	You will fail visual inspection if they look under the hood. The smog pump removal would add a little bit of horse though. Not enough to risk having to put that crap back on if you fail.

11-04-2004, 04:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Whether you have testing or not isn't the issue. It is selfish to remove that equpiment and seriously fucked up. You could rob a store and get away with it. Does that make it right?

11-04-2004, 05:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
mighty mouse Crazy	Blah. Whatever. I have an '86 Olds Cutlass Supreme that is loaded with shit. I put a hollowed out cat in it and a built-by-Me Q-Jet. Runs 100x better than before and still passes emissions. Its true though that removing all of the emissions stuff really isn't going to return a lot of power. But, a high flow cat and a little air/fuel work can do wonders for them.

11-05-2004, 12:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Well it's legal in wisconsin to remove it __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

11-08-2004, 12:53 AM	#14 (permalink)
BigTruck1956 Psycho Location: norcal	your primary concern is engine management. Removing all of your emissions equipment will deprive your engine's computer of the sensors it needs to make the engine run properly. Essentially, your performance will decrease since the computer relies on all of those vacuum hoses and related parts to properly manage the fuel-air ratio. If you wanted to go nuts, I would replace the intake and use non-electronically controlled carb. Although unless you do a cam change, I doubt you will increase performance significantly. __________________ so much to do, so little time.....at least i aint bored.

11-10-2004, 04:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
big_bubba Psycho	In Ontario, a car older than 20 is emissions exempt. My Dart is a '76. SO I kept this in mind when assembling the car.....no cats, EGR, or any of that BS. Wrong? Don't care. It's legal and my car runs better and performs better without it. Merker, I don't know about your '87 Caddy, but if it doesn't need that crap to run (everything being controlled by computers and what not) I'd ditch it.

11-10-2004, 08:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Not sure about other places, but in california 30yrs+ on a car and its exempt from the bi-annual amog checks. It is still ILLEGAL to modify the emmissions equipment on those cars. It doesn't get smogged, so you wont get caught, but none the less, its still illegal. Chances are, if you read the law, its like that in other states as well. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

11-11-2004, 09:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Well if I wanted full out performance in that car I would do two things (if I had the money) either drop in a L67 engine or some company takes the 4.9 cadillac engine and punches it out to a 5.0. I work at a performance shop and there barely anything out there for performace, (besides plugs wires and maybe a throttle body) I think I might fab a cold air intake though and call it good I already thrown a good coil in the car. The car isn't really worth any money to do anything to since it's my daily beater, and for performance thats what I have my mustang for. What I used to do when I owned a couple of mid 80's GM rwd drive cars with the half assed computer system was just gut out the cat and put on an aftermarket intake and carb and that made them run sooo much better. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

11-13-2004, 10:34 PM	#19 (permalink)
kazoo Psycho Location: Where the night things are	In PA, older vehicles get a visual check to ensure that all factory installed equipment per the VIN code (which tells what engine the vehicle was manufactured with) is present. __________________ There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity -Big Daddy

11-14-2004, 01:37 PM	#20 (permalink)
Nimisys Crazy Location: San Diego	its also a 4100 cadillac. those suck. those sucked even when put against the rest of the gm standard of the 80's. those engines (the 4.1, 4.5 and even 4.9) were probably the biggest problem children gm ever made, and that includes the the 350 desiel olds motors. just leave it alone and pray you can get somethng else before it dies.

11-15-2004, 10:37 PM	#21 (permalink)
sasKuach Tilted	Just gut the cat and put it back in to pass a visual. It sounds MUCH better. And runs better too. My '89 F250 has "true duals" with no cat, and it's truly awesome. If your car is running well, there should be no extra emissions; cats are more of a safety net. And the 'puter should be able to adjust.