Any laws regarding new car sales? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mused76 · 10-16-2004, 08:34 AM

Okay - About 3 years ago I traded in my Oldsmobile Intrigue for a Mitsubishi Eclipse. My finance went well but that night when I looked at the papers I noticed the monthly car payments were jacked up higher then we agreed upon. I did sign the papers, however - which sucks and took the new car home.

So the next day, after spotting this and thinking about it for a few mins, I immediately ran to my bank where where my previous car, the Oldsmobile, was financed through. They told me that if the Mitsubishi dealers would agree they could cancel the loan since my Oldsmobile was not paid off by the dealership yet and technically it's still mine. According to the bank this usually happens after 24 hours of the purchase of a new car.

I wanted to take the Eclipse back is what it came down to. So, they did take it back the following day and sold me my car back. I know I got screwed - as some of you shake your head now. Anyway, I paid extra to get my Oldsmobile back from them and paid for more than what they gave me the trade in value as.

At the time of trade in I owed only around 3000 on it. When I bought it back they turned back up to 7000. 4000 dollar difference and I know I'm dumb.

I am currently in a lawsuit with the dealership because they screwed me in many ways. They jacked up the Oldsmobile price to get it back (which I needed a car at that time for work and didn't feel I should have to car shop at this time), added an extended warranty (which I found is illegal if I didn't want it - which I refused but still had to pay according to the dealers), but we did make the exchange and I was left with my Oldsmobile and more money to pay off to them.

So! this all happened under 24 hours believe it not. Am I protected by any laws that would guarantee my rights to return a car in 24 hrs or am I screwed? My attorney says I have a chance to get some of this money back (the money I am currently paying extra because I got my old car back (4000 dollar differnce) - the olds - and they jacked the price up again when I rebought) but do you guys think the same? We go to court this Nov after the date being pushed back many times - and we're in front of a jury of peers.
Car salesmen are dirty and I know lawyers are the same way - but I already paid my lawyer his fees since he helped me in many ways by writing a letter to the Eclipse dealer and waiving the car payments for the Eclipse as their bank was trying to keep me paying on it when I didn't even have the car anymore. Do I have a case here or not? Should I expect to win or not - remember it's in front of a jury of peers who may or may not side with car dealers - but probably despise them as any other.

DJMala · 10-16-2004, 09:13 PM

Let me see if I'm understanding here... You traded your car for a new one. Then you had buyer's remorse and returned the new car, and they simply cancelled the loan. So you started with an Olds and $3000 of debt, and at this point you had no debt and no car. Effectively you sold your car to the dealership for $3000. Then you bought your Olds back from the dealer for $7000.

IANAL, but I think you're wasting your time with a lawsuit. You sold your car to the dealership. They owned it when you signed the papers. What happened with your deal for the new car had no bearing on that. The difference between what they paid you and what you paid to get it back is the difference between wholesale and retail pricing. When you trade a car in, the dealer gives you the wholesale price. When the dealer resells the car, they sell it for the retail price, which is always several thousand dollars higher. They weren't specifically trying to screw you, they just didn't cut you a break. As far as I know (and again I am not a lawyer), they are not obligated to. As I said, they owned your car as soon as you signed the papers.

I wonder about this lawyer, too. Shouldn't he be able to explain all of this to you? How much is he charging you? Is it someone you know well, or did you pick him out of the phone book? I'd just hate to see you get screwed a second time by some ambulance chaser.

Personally, I would just eat the costs and learn from my mistakes. You were in a pretty good position before you bought back your old car. You could have gone anywhere and made a deal. I know car shopping is a drag (believe me, I know), but in the long run it would have been worth the hassle.

And for God's sake, read <B>everything</B> you are about to affix your signature to.

mused76 · 10-17-2004, 06:28 AM

Yes - experiences are a "mofo" must and I got one from this. I should have done a lot of things differently besides get my old car back. So, the lawyer that I found was through the BBB. He has some experience working with car dealers and I only had to pay him 350. He did a lot of work up to this point to cancel the Eclipse payment and fixed my credit as well. I can't complain that he's doing a bad job so we'll see what happens come court Nov 1st.

shakran · 10-17-2004, 06:52 AM

OK I know you've now learned the all important lesson about reading every word of every document you sign, especially when there's major dollar value attached to it. Dealerships routinely jack up the payments in the end (gap insurance, dealer prep fees, and all sorts of other useless bullshit that they sneak in there).

But the real important lesson that you may not have picked up on yet is this: NEVER buy a car based on payments.

The salesman will always ask you how much you can pay per month. Don't answer this question.

Let's say you tell him you can pay $600 a month. He'll extend that loan out over 5 years and what should have been a $29,000 car is now a $36,000 car.

The proper answer is "Don't worry about payments. I'll take care of the financing. Let's talk about the price of the car."

The other advantage to negotiating the price of the car rather than the payments is this: Now they can't fuck you over as easy on the extras they like throwing in. After all if you agree to pay $29,000 for the car, and you see $35,000 sitting on the contract, you know they're messing with you.

Yet another advantage, of course, is that you can obtain your own financing, which is almost always at a lower rate than the dealership - keep in mind that the interest on the loan is also going into the dealership's pockets (it's the rare dealership that just forms a relationship with a bank and lets the bank do all its financing - more common for the dealership to do its own financing and take in all the interest as well.)

DJMala · 10-17-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

Yet another advantage, of course, is that you can obtain your own financing, which is almost always at a lower rate than the dealership - keep in mind that the interest on the loan is also going into the dealership's pockets (it's the rare dealership that just forms a relationship with a bank and lets the bank do all its financing - more common for the dealership to do its own financing and take in all the interest as well.)

I had an odd experience with this when I bought my last car. We sat down to discuss financing and the guy quoted me a rate. I asked if he could do any better, and he started giving me the spiel about how the bank controls the rates and there was nothing he could do. I said I wanted to check with my bank and started to leave, and all of a sudden he had a little leeway with the bank. He came down several points until I had a rate I was happy with, and I agreed to the deal. When I came back to sign the paperwork the next day, the loan was written up for a point *lower* than what we had agreed on. I certainly wasn't going to complain, but it seemed odd that they could do that.

shakran · 10-18-2004, 04:30 PM

Yup. He was trying to screw you on financing, but fortunately you were smart enough not to roll over and take it, like most victi. . er. . .car buyers do.

KeyserSoze · 10-18-2004, 10:47 PM

Why in the world would you allow them to SELL you your own car back??

If they did not pay off the car and only did a transfer of title form on it then all they ahd to do was tear up the paperwork, unwind the new car deal and give you yours back.

You need to check the laws in your state and see if you can show some type of fraud on the new car purchase.

OUCH...I feel for you and if you really wnat to get back at them and force them to fix it threaten to picket their dealership EVERY SATURDAY and SUNDAY with a bunch of friends holding big signs that read " Don't buy a car here they're THIEVES"

I promise you one saturday of you doing this they will fix all real quick as you will cost them more then your car was worth.

10-16-2004, 08:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
mused76 Crazy Location: NE Ohio	Any laws regarding new car sales? Okay - About 3 years ago I traded in my Oldsmobile Intrigue for a Mitsubishi Eclipse. My finance went well but that night when I looked at the papers I noticed the monthly car payments were jacked up higher then we agreed upon. I did sign the papers, however - which sucks and took the new car home. So the next day, after spotting this and thinking about it for a few mins, I immediately ran to my bank where where my previous car, the Oldsmobile, was financed through. They told me that if the Mitsubishi dealers would agree they could cancel the loan since my Oldsmobile was not paid off by the dealership yet and technically it's still mine. According to the bank this usually happens after 24 hours of the purchase of a new car. I wanted to take the Eclipse back is what it came down to. So, they did take it back the following day and sold me my car back. I know I got screwed - as some of you shake your head now. Anyway, I paid extra to get my Oldsmobile back from them and paid for more than what they gave me the trade in value as. At the time of trade in I owed only around 3000 on it. When I bought it back they turned back up to 7000. 4000 dollar difference and I know I'm dumb. I am currently in a lawsuit with the dealership because they screwed me in many ways. They jacked up the Oldsmobile price to get it back (which I needed a car at that time for work and didn't feel I should have to car shop at this time), added an extended warranty (which I found is illegal if I didn't want it - which I refused but still had to pay according to the dealers), but we did make the exchange and I was left with my Oldsmobile and more money to pay off to them. So! this all happened under 24 hours believe it not. Am I protected by any laws that would guarantee my rights to return a car in 24 hrs or am I screwed? My attorney says I have a chance to get some of this money back (the money I am currently paying extra because I got my old car back (4000 dollar differnce) - the olds - and they jacked the price up again when I rebought) but do you guys think the same? We go to court this Nov after the date being pushed back many times - and we're in front of a jury of peers. Car salesmen are dirty and I know lawyers are the same way - but I already paid my lawyer his fees since he helped me in many ways by writing a letter to the Eclipse dealer and waiving the car payments for the Eclipse as their bank was trying to keep me paying on it when I didn't even have the car anymore. Do I have a case here or not? Should I expect to win or not - remember it's in front of a jury of peers who may or may not side with car dealers - but probably despise them as any other.

10-18-2004, 10:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
KeyserSoze Psycho Location: Lost Angeles	Why in the world would you allow them to SELL you your own car back?? If they did not pay off the car and only did a transfer of title form on it then all they ahd to do was tear up the paperwork, unwind the new car deal and give you yours back. You need to check the laws in your state and see if you can show some type of fraud on the new car purchase. OUCH...I feel for you and if you really wnat to get back at them and force them to fix it threaten to picket their dealership EVERY SATURDAY and SUNDAY with a bunch of friends holding big signs that read " Don't buy a car here they're THIEVES" I promise you one saturday of you doing this they will fix all real quick as you will cost them more then your car was worth. __________________ THERE IS NO KEYSER SOZE!!

10-16-2004, 09:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
DJMala Crazy Location: MA	Let me see if I'm understanding here... You traded your car for a new one. Then you had buyer's remorse and returned the new car, and they simply cancelled the loan. So you started with an Olds and $3000 of debt, and at this point you had no debt and no car. Effectively you sold your car to the dealership for $3000. Then you bought your Olds back from the dealer for $7000. IANAL, but I think you're wasting your time with a lawsuit. You sold your car to the dealership. They owned it when you signed the papers. What happened with your deal for the new car had no bearing on that. The difference between what they paid you and what you paid to get it back is the difference between wholesale and retail pricing. When you trade a car in, the dealer gives you the wholesale price. When the dealer resells the car, they sell it for the retail price, which is always several thousand dollars higher. They weren't specifically trying to screw you, they just didn't cut you a break. As far as I know (and again I am not a lawyer), they are not obligated to. As I said, they owned your car as soon as you signed the papers. I wonder about this lawyer, too. Shouldn't he be able to explain all of this to you? How much is he charging you? Is it someone you know well, or did you pick him out of the phone book? I'd just hate to see you get screwed a second time by some ambulance chaser. Personally, I would just eat the costs and learn from my mistakes. You were in a pretty good position before you bought back your old car. You could have gone anywhere and made a deal. I know car shopping is a drag (believe me, I know), but in the long run it would have been worth the hassle. And for God's sake, read <B>everything</B> you are about to affix your signature to.

10-17-2004, 06:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
mused76 Crazy Location: NE Ohio	Yes - experiences are a "mofo" must and I got one from this. I should have done a lot of things differently besides get my old car back. So, the lawyer that I found was through the BBB. He has some experience working with car dealers and I only had to pay him 350. He did a lot of work up to this point to cancel the Eclipse payment and fixed my credit as well. I can't complain that he's doing a bad job so we'll see what happens come court Nov 1st.

10-17-2004, 06:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	OK I know you've now learned the all important lesson about reading every word of every document you sign, especially when there's major dollar value attached to it. Dealerships routinely jack up the payments in the end (gap insurance, dealer prep fees, and all sorts of other useless bullshit that they sneak in there). But the real important lesson that you may not have picked up on yet is this: NEVER buy a car based on payments. The salesman will always ask you how much you can pay per month. Don't answer this question. Let's say you tell him you can pay $600 a month. He'll extend that loan out over 5 years and what should have been a $29,000 car is now a $36,000 car. The proper answer is "Don't worry about payments. I'll take care of the financing. Let's talk about the price of the car." The other advantage to negotiating the price of the car rather than the payments is this: Now they can't fuck you over as easy on the extras they like throwing in. After all if you agree to pay $29,000 for the car, and you see $35,000 sitting on the contract, you know they're messing with you. Yet another advantage, of course, is that you can obtain your own financing, which is almost always at a lower rate than the dealership - keep in mind that the interest on the loan is also going into the dealership's pockets (it's the rare dealership that just forms a relationship with a bank and lets the bank do all its financing - more common for the dealership to do its own financing and take in all the interest as well.)

10-18-2004, 04:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Yup. He was trying to screw you on financing, but fortunately you were smart enough not to roll over and take it, like most victi. . er. . .car buyers do.