Running out of VIN numbers by end of decade - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Astrocloud · 07-02-2004, 06:57 PM

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...a01-200548.htm

The 17-digit code identifies the origin, make, model and attributes of cars, trucks, buses and motorcycles. In short, it is to vehicles what DNA is to people

Too many cars, too few digits
U.S. will run out of vehicle ID numbers. Solution? Recycle or buy from Botswana

By Eric Mayne / The Detroit News

The auto industry’s number is almost up.

The 17-digit codes that identify the origin, make, model and attributes of cars, trucks, buses — even trailers — worldwide will be exhausted by the end of the decade.

And like an odometer that returns to zero and starts over again, a Vehicle Identification Number — or VIN — could be duplicated.

Experts say duplicated VINs would cause havoc for repair shops, state license offices, insurance agencies, law enforcement and other groups that use VINs to process warranty claims, investigate accident claims and recover stolen vehicles.

“We’ve been brainwashing law enforcement and the insurance community and virtually everybody that a VIN is like DNA — there’s one for any one vehicle,” said Ed Sparkman, spokesman for the Chicago-based National Insurance Crime Bureau.

At the root of the impending shortage is the explosion of vehicle production in recent decades. Automakers build 60 million cars and trucks every year and each one needs a unique VIN in the same way a newborn is given a Social Security number. And that doesn’t count heavy trucks, motorcycles and other vehicles that require VINs.

The Society of Automotive Engineers, which established the existing VIN system in 1981 and expected it to last 30 years, has formed a committee to address the impending shortage.

One potential fix: Poach VINs assigned to smaller countries such as Botswana, which don’t mass produce vehicles.

Unlike telephone companies, which simply created new area codes to cope with a surge in households, cell phones and fax machines, the committee is not recommending longer VINs — even though 18- or 19-character codes would not repeat for 100 years.

Longer codes would require a major overhaul of computer systems that would dwarf the challenges and expenses spawned by the Y2K computer dilemma, said Dave Proefke, chairman of the committee.

“The scope of the logistical changes and the monetary impact are just astronomical,” said Proefke, a technical engineer for vehicle security at General Motors Corp.

At smaller manufacturers, the change would cost tens of millions of dollars, Proefke said.

“For GM, it would mean a significant change for every assembly center we have, all our engineering centers, all our processing centers,” he said.

To overcome the shortage, SAE is taking a close look at the first three digits of a VIN — known separately as the World Manufacturer Identifier. It consists of numbers and letters — excluding I, O, Q, U and Z — because they can be mistaken for numbers or another letter.

By international agreement, a WMI is assigned according to region. Initially, the United States had all WMI codes that started with the number 1.

“We were assuming we were always going to be 1, originally,” Proefke said. “Now we’re 1, 4 and 5. And we don’t have that many left of 5.”

Of 1,056 WMI codes available to U.S. manufacturers, 594 remain, according to SAE.

One solution that will be considered when the committee votes on a final recommendation in September or October is to reclaim WMI codes that are going unused in other regions.

More than two dozen countries, from Armenia to Zimbabwe, have up to 288 WMI codes each. All are dormant.

The group may also reclaim WMI codes from U.S. trailer, motorcycle and other manufacturers no longer in business. SAE doesn’t have a precise count, but such defunct companies could be the source of enough WMI codes to supplement another 30 years of use, said Steve Ezar, manager of government and industry standardization at SAE.

Another possible solution: the WMI code could be revamped so that the third digit, which now indicates brand, will be freed up to denote different information.

For example, a VIN beginning with 5G1 now describes a Chevrolet built in the United States, while 5G2 identifies a Pontiac.

But in the future, 5G1 could be used to cover all GM products, freeing 5G2 for — perhaps — another manufacturer.

Duplication could still occur, but the difference between a 30-year-old vehicle and a new one should help avoid any confusion, experts say.

“It’s common sense,” said Val Vitols, executive director of Michigan’s Automotive Theft Prevention Authority.

Even now, on rare occasions, the Secretary of State’s office encounters duplication, spokeswoman Kelly Chesney said. Classic cars are sometimes allowed to use old license plates, she said.

“Every once in awhile (those plate numbers) show up in a configuration in a new plate,” Chesney said. “But we know instantly that this is a car of a certain age and make.”

Despite the complexity of the problem, SAE officials are confident they can iron out the problem.

“In reality, it’s not going to be the big issue that we think it is,” said Sparkman, a former Michigan police officer. “It’s sort of like the Y2K thing.”

DEI37 · 07-02-2004, 08:35 PM

I had wondered about the current VIN system, and when it would be a problem with duplicate VIN's. Now, I guess I know.

merkerguitars · 07-02-2004, 10:46 PM

I'd say they should make VIN numbers longer. By the time that they would run out of VIN number they could easily make them longer.

stingc · 07-02-2004, 11:18 PM

The VIN system has changed in the past, so its not a big deal if it gets changed again.

bodypainter · 07-03-2004, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by merkerguitars
I'd say they should make VIN numbers longer.

If nothing else that would give job security for a lot of programmers for a good while. It would also obsolete a lot of software that isn't updated any longer. Certainly it would be a very expensive fix.

Scorps · 07-03-2004, 12:36 PM

Start taking the VIN numbers from the cars at the wreckers and using them on new cars....just erase all the old data!

Tech · 07-03-2004, 01:50 PM

i knew we should have been using the chinese alphabet all along...

RaDiAn · 07-08-2004, 08:50 AM

Hey now I know how to read that darn thing...........lol Well I always forget how.

merkerguitars · 07-13-2004, 09:29 AM

Actually I just thought of something that would be the best solution to the VIN number problem, They should make a different scheme of VIN numbers for each type of vehicles, trucks, hybrids, cars, etc...that way you could tell in greater detail what the car was equipped with...

BooRadley · 07-13-2004, 10:55 PM

Or just put in RFIDs in the cars and substitute them for VINs. Or just let it go, the chances of a duplicate VIN being in the same geographical area is low, at least until all the damn computers are upgraded

punx1325 · 07-14-2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Train
Start taking the VIN numbers from the cars at the wreckers and using them on new cars....just erase all the old data!

In theory it is a possiblity, but in reality it just isn't plausible. If the wrong people got ahold of that system, criminals could erase brand new cars from the records and never be traced. Unfortunately, the only cheap fix is to change the numbering system.

07-02-2004, 06:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Running out of VIN numbers by end of decade http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...a01-200548.htm The 17-digit code identifies the origin, make, model and attributes of cars, trucks, buses and motorcycles. In short, it is to vehicles what DNA is to people Too many cars, too few digits U.S. will run out of vehicle ID numbers. Solution? Recycle or buy from Botswana By Eric Mayne / The Detroit News The auto industry’s number is almost up. The 17-digit codes that identify the origin, make, model and attributes of cars, trucks, buses — even trailers — worldwide will be exhausted by the end of the decade. And like an odometer that returns to zero and starts over again, a Vehicle Identification Number — or VIN — could be duplicated. Experts say duplicated VINs would cause havoc for repair shops, state license offices, insurance agencies, law enforcement and other groups that use VINs to process warranty claims, investigate accident claims and recover stolen vehicles. “We’ve been brainwashing law enforcement and the insurance community and virtually everybody that a VIN is like DNA — there’s one for any one vehicle,” said Ed Sparkman, spokesman for the Chicago-based National Insurance Crime Bureau. At the root of the impending shortage is the explosion of vehicle production in recent decades. Automakers build 60 million cars and trucks every year and each one needs a unique VIN in the same way a newborn is given a Social Security number. And that doesn’t count heavy trucks, motorcycles and other vehicles that require VINs. The Society of Automotive Engineers, which established the existing VIN system in 1981 and expected it to last 30 years, has formed a committee to address the impending shortage. One potential fix: Poach VINs assigned to smaller countries such as Botswana, which don’t mass produce vehicles. Unlike telephone companies, which simply created new area codes to cope with a surge in households, cell phones and fax machines, the committee is not recommending longer VINs — even though 18- or 19-character codes would not repeat for 100 years. Longer codes would require a major overhaul of computer systems that would dwarf the challenges and expenses spawned by the Y2K computer dilemma, said Dave Proefke, chairman of the committee. “The scope of the logistical changes and the monetary impact are just astronomical,” said Proefke, a technical engineer for vehicle security at General Motors Corp. At smaller manufacturers, the change would cost tens of millions of dollars, Proefke said. “For GM, it would mean a significant change for every assembly center we have, all our engineering centers, all our processing centers,” he said. To overcome the shortage, SAE is taking a close look at the first three digits of a VIN — known separately as the World Manufacturer Identifier. It consists of numbers and letters — excluding I, O, Q, U and Z — because they can be mistaken for numbers or another letter. By international agreement, a WMI is assigned according to region. Initially, the United States had all WMI codes that started with the number 1. “We were assuming we were always going to be 1, originally,” Proefke said. “Now we’re 1, 4 and 5. And we don’t have that many left of 5.” Of 1,056 WMI codes available to U.S. manufacturers, 594 remain, according to SAE. One solution that will be considered when the committee votes on a final recommendation in September or October is to reclaim WMI codes that are going unused in other regions. More than two dozen countries, from Armenia to Zimbabwe, have up to 288 WMI codes each. All are dormant. The group may also reclaim WMI codes from U.S. trailer, motorcycle and other manufacturers no longer in business. SAE doesn’t have a precise count, but such defunct companies could be the source of enough WMI codes to supplement another 30 years of use, said Steve Ezar, manager of government and industry standardization at SAE. Another possible solution: the WMI code could be revamped so that the third digit, which now indicates brand, will be freed up to denote different information. For example, a VIN beginning with 5G1 now describes a Chevrolet built in the United States, while 5G2 identifies a Pontiac. But in the future, 5G1 could be used to cover all GM products, freeing 5G2 for — perhaps — another manufacturer. Duplication could still occur, but the difference between a 30-year-old vehicle and a new one should help avoid any confusion, experts say. “It’s common sense,” said Val Vitols, executive director of Michigan’s Automotive Theft Prevention Authority. Even now, on rare occasions, the Secretary of State’s office encounters duplication, spokeswoman Kelly Chesney said. Classic cars are sometimes allowed to use old license plates, she said. “Every once in awhile (those plate numbers) show up in a configuration in a new plate,” Chesney said. “But we know instantly that this is a car of a certain age and make.” Despite the complexity of the problem, SAE officials are confident they can iron out the problem. “In reality, it’s not going to be the big issue that we think it is,” said Sparkman, a former Michigan police officer. “It’s sort of like the Y2K thing.”

07-02-2004, 08:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I had wondered about the current VIN system, and when it would be a problem with duplicate VIN's. Now, I guess I know. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

07-02-2004, 10:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	I'd say they should make VIN numbers longer. By the time that they would run out of VIN number they could easily make them longer. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

07-03-2004, 12:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	Start taking the VIN numbers from the cars at the wreckers and using them on new cars....just erase all the old data! __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

07-03-2004, 01:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tech Addict Location: Baltimore MD	i knew we should have been using the chinese alphabet all along... __________________ -Tim- ~I swear sometimes i feel like i'm married to a child. ~You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois, cause if i'm a child than you know what that makes you? a pedophile. and i'll be damned if i'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert.

07-02-2004, 11:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
stingc Psycho Location: PA	The VIN system has changed in the past, so its not a big deal if it gets changed again.

07-08-2004, 08:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
RaDiAn Addict	Hey now I know how to read that darn thing...........lol Well I always forget how.

07-13-2004, 09:29 AM	#9 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Actually I just thought of something that would be the best solution to the VIN number problem, They should make a different scheme of VIN numbers for each type of vehicles, trucks, hybrids, cars, etc...that way you could tell in greater detail what the car was equipped with... __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

07-13-2004, 10:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
BooRadley Insane Location: Kentucky	Or just put in RFIDs in the cars and substitute them for VINs. Or just let it go, the chances of a duplicate VIN being in the same geographical area is low, at least until all the damn computers are upgraded