Auto X'ers beware!!!! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 07-01-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Warranty Woes: Whether abuse or autocrossing, most automakers are not covering it
link
By ANDREW LUU

MICHAEL MILLER DIDN’T know it, but the drivetrain warranty was already void on his son’s new Mitsubishi Evolution before he even took the car in for service to his local Salt Lake City dealership.

Unbeknownst to Miller, Mitsubishi placed a lifetime warranty restriction on the engine, clutch and transmission in Miller’s Evo because the company discovered the car had been entered in a Sports Car Club of America autocross event a month earlier.

Miller said that about two weeks after entering the Evo in the SCCA event he heard bad noises emanating from the engine bay and took the car in for service. “The dealer performed a vehicle service inquiry and I was told there was a restriction placed on my file,” Miller says.

Bottom line: After entering the car in one SCCA event, Miller was left with a $7,000 bill for repairing two failed connecting rods and a blown turbocharger.

“Problems related to racing or modifications are not covered under warranty,” says Mitsubishi spokeswoman Janis Little. “Autocrossing, or timed competition, is classified under the warranty terms as racing. It’s difficult for us to know if you’re out there racing, but if there is evidence of racing damage, we’re going to look into it and you may have warranty restrictions placed on certain parts of the vehicle.”

Most owners recognize that part of the cost of going racing means footing the repair bill when something goes awry. Manufacturer warranties and owner manuals typically specify that harsh use, abuse, non-factory modifications and racing can void all or part of a vehicle’s warranty intended to cover defects in materials or workmanship. Miller’s case, however, raises questions about how the company discovered his autocross involvement.

The buzz in online communities suggests Mitsubishi is cross matching names from its owner database with SCCA autocross results. Those who turn up on both lists are notified that their vehicle warranties are void, the online chatter claims. Miller says Mitsubishi wasn’t clear on how it learned of his autocrossing.

Mitsubishi adamantly denies that it uses automated web search systems to look for Evolutions involved in race events. “We don’t have people out there searching websites for names,” says Little.

No matter how racing involvement comes to the attention of an automaker, companies steadfastly stand by their right to limit warranty coverage—even if the cars they sell are clearly built for speed and marketed with flashy ads and brochures that promote enthusiastic driving. Most automakers say the same thing: Racing, track use, competition and other abuses aren’t covered.

“When it hits the track, all bets are off,” says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.

For instance, even though Subaru pops for a one-year SCCA membership for every interested WRX buyer, and in its marketing materials appears to encourage owners to enter their cars in autocross events, the company says autocrossing is racing and racing can void warranty coverage. The WRX/SCCA application form says the SCCA “looks forward to helping you fully experience the benefits of owning this car.” But the form also includes a disclaimer that Subaru’s warranty excludes “damage or failure resulting from participation in competition or racing events.”

“If the damage looks to be racing related, you’re not going to be covered,” says Subaru spokeswoman Larkin Hill. “We don’t want to punish the person who goes out once in a while and autocrosses—and that shouldn’t cause any problems with the car anyway. However, autocross is considered competition and the warranty does not cover abusive driving or competition. If you’re out there racing every weekend, you can’t expect us to fund it.”

You’ll hear the same story at DaimlerChrysler Street and Racing Technology, where they make the Dodge SRT-4, the Viper-powered Ram SRT-10 and the supercharged Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6. “Technically, racing damage is not covered under warranty,” says SRT spokesman Dan Bodene. “If a guy autocrosses, submits a problem for warranty and the dealer suspects it is racing related, he’s going to huddle with our technicians to find out. If it is, our dealers are not obligated to cover it under warranty.”

Chevrolet lures young buyers with the performance promise of its 2005 supercharged Cobalt SS, but the owner’s manual clearly states the warranty does not cover alterations and misuse.

“Under the misuse heading, such things like running over curbs, improper loading and competition or racing are spelled out specifically,” says Chevy spokesman Mike Stoller. “If there’s a car coming into the dealer that has been racing and that results in damage, and it’s something that is probable or obvious, that would not be something we would be compelled to cover.”

Internal investigations aren’t limited to auto-crossing, but cover any activity deemed outside normal use, such as track days and plain old aggressive driving.

“If a guy’s constantly lighting up the tires on the street, that’s not normal wear and tear,” says Chrysler’s Bodene.

Adds Mitsubishi’s Little: “You’re not going to get black-flagged just for entering an auto-cross, but if something happens we want people to be reasonable and responsible for their own actions. If you go once in a while, just like if you drive hard on the street, who’s going to really know? But if you’re coming in two or three times to replace a blown clutch, we know you’re probably testing your car’s 0-to-60 time.”

But what about all those manufacturer- and dealer-sponsored “racing” events—track days, club meets and performance driving programs that seem to encourage owners to drive competitively?

The big difference, companies note, is that manufacturer-sponsored driving programs such as Mazda’s Rev It Up or the Porsche Driving Experience provide cars and instruction, and no owner vehicles are permitted.

One rare exception is track day events organized, sponsored and sanctioned by the national Ford SVT Owners’ Association and local Ford/SVT dealers. Owners bring their cars, and the association and participating dealers agree to cover any mechanical failures brought on by normal track use.

“Owners can participate in the instructional days without automatically voiding their warranties,” says Ford Performance Vehicles spokesman Alan Hall. “Obviously if they abuse it [the car] on the track, or there’s a part that breaks due to aggressive driving, that will not be covered under warranty. But your warranty will not be voided across the board by just participating in that event. We don’t automatically void a warranty unless above-normal abuse is shown on a vehicle.”

I don't Auto X, but I do know a few people who do, and they also like to street race. I'm thinking that sooner or later we're going to have little black boxes that tells the mechanic we totally abused the machine at the redlight on a particular date and time and missed a shift off the line.

Halx · 07-01-2004, 12:17 PM

I'm what you would call... a spirited driver. I happen to know that my car has a computer that keeps track of the vehicle's performance, but I'm not sure about how detailed the information is stores is. I'm not worried about this happening to me, though, because I plan to leave everything stock for a while.

laconic1 · 07-01-2004, 12:18 PM

I used to work at a Chevy dealer, and we would always get people that had obviously raced their Camaro's and 'vettes, and they would always get pissed when we wouldn't warranty their engines and transmissions. Usually if it wasn't too obvious that they had raced we would cover it though.

CrazySaturn · 07-01-2004, 12:24 PM

My take is that if the car is marketed as a sports car, it should be covered warranty-wise as such.

Scorps · 07-01-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrazySaturn
My take is that if the car is marketed as a sports car, it should be covered warranty-wise as such.

if you get a Sport Car warranty then people would drive the shit out of it!

Cynthetiq · 07-01-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrazySaturn
My take is that if the car is marketed as a sports car, it should be covered warranty-wise as such.

they don't cover things that break when you go off roading on a 4x4...why do that to a sports car?

merkerguitars · 07-01-2004, 06:28 PM

Yeah thats definately fair for them to not cover they warranty...racing is hard on an engine....no matter what.

MSD · 07-01-2004, 07:57 PM

Just like the warranty on the Wrangler and Rubicon that voids the second you leave paved roads.

BooRadley · 07-01-2004, 10:46 PM

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with motorsports lately. People buy cars they cannot realistically afford to tear up. They have 3 years of payments left on a vehicle that gets the piss flogged out of it, and then try to get it fixed under warranty.

And in many car message boards, you will see half a dozen threads of how someone has modified their engine, and then take it back to stock and get it fixed under warranty. Pisses me off.

Pretty soon automobile manufacturers are going to have to have comprhensive "spyboxes" just to keep costs down thanks to a selective group of asshats.

otter · 07-03-2004, 11:55 AM

Beware if you use your new Mitsubishi (such as an Evo or Ralliart) for AutoX or any SCCA events. They actively search online SCCA results for Mitsu cars + Driver names. If they find a match to cars under warranty in their records, you're done.

Scorps · 07-03-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by otter
Beware if you use your new Mitsubishi (such as an Evo or Ralliart) for AutoX or any SCCA events. They actively search online SCCA results for Mitsu cars + Driver names. If they find a match to cars under warranty in their records, you're done.

Use a fake name

wakelagger · 07-04-2004, 04:41 PM

BooRadley, I remember reading on a Subaru forum about a guy that stockified his self-enhanced-warranty-voiding WRX in order to get it repaired under warranty. He posted it on the forum in a joking, almost bragging sense. Another Forum goer, not wanting to the shoulder the price of this man's abuse in his next vehicle purchase or repair, called up every Subaru dealership in the area and told them about this dick's warranty-voiding and fraudulent act.
Subaru looked into it, found the WRX, and made the dick pay the bill and/or cancelled his powertrain warranty (I forget).

I think the thread may have been linked on an older TFP.

lefty8080 · 07-08-2004, 03:57 PM

From what I understand some of the computers these days do have some spy functions. Also you can't blame the manufacturers for not covering this. It is so easy to totally screw a motor with a missed shift and that is very easy for amatuers to do. If you have two bad rods and a bad turbo, it really starts to sound like abuse.

fastom · 07-14-2004, 04:11 PM

Damn rights the 'puters have spy functions. They come in handy for insurance investigators. A guy i know rented a car with data logging, they plugged it in upon return and charged him extra for every instance of exceeding 6000rpm.

In reading that report i come to only one obvious conclusion.... buy a Ford!

flightlessbird · 09-08-2004, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakelagger

BooRadley, I remember reading on a Subaru forum about a guy that stockified his self-enhanced-warranty-voiding WRX in order to get it repaired under warranty. He posted it on the forum in a joking, almost bragging sense. Another Forum goer, not wanting to the shoulder the price of this man's abuse in his next vehicle purchase or repair, called up every Subaru dealership in the area and told them about this dick's warranty-voiding and fraudulent act.
Subaru looked into it, found the WRX, and made the dick pay the bill and/or cancelled his powertrain warranty (I forget).

I think the thread may have been linked on an older TFP.

IANAL!! In most cases if the damage was not directly caused by the racing or the modification Subaru dealerships are willing to uphold a warranty.

Willravel · 09-08-2004, 08:22 PM

That's a shame, but I suppose I can understand it partially. Some people will race almost daily, and the engine and other parts will see faster wear and tear. As for me, I went out and bought a Porsche 914. Autocrossing is a dream in this car that you can get starting at like $2k.

solo2020 · 09-10-2004, 12:27 AM

I've done worse then auto-x in my Jetta 1.8T.

My car runs fine. Early maintenance and some basic care should keep your car in good/decent condition.

With the Subaru offering the SCCA course with their car, it is very possible that they can be held liable if they deny warrany. However, most owners should keep a certain amount of discretion when it comes to how hard they push their cars.

pinion · 09-10-2004, 08:13 PM

I think Mitsubishi has fallen off of it's freakin' rocker and may not ever get up. This is ridiculous, it's like selling someone a mountain bike and then voiding the warranty when you find dirt on the tires. We're talking about Evos here - 270hp, turbo charged, 4wd, (supposedly) race bred rockets. Tell me these cars weren't built to be driven. Or maybe it's just an illusion and the rods are made of toothpicks..

Autocrossing isn't really that hard on cars, autocrossing is hard on tires - drag racing, inexperienced drivers, trees and Armorall are hard on cars; three minutes in a parking lot at 60mph and a couple of smashed cones shouldn't be much of a threat to a confident, competent manufacturer. Then again I guess Mitsu isn't really known for their reliability.

It's really too bad, I autocross regularly and the Evos are impressive to watch and very competitive. They don't offer much other than performance though, I think they're kinda silly looking and the interior leaves a lot to be desired. If Mitsu is gonna have a cow when people actually go drive the cars then I guess the drivers will be spending their money elsewhere..

Long live Mazdaspeed..

07-01-2004, 12:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I'm what you would call... a spirited driver. I happen to know that my car has a computer that keeps track of the vehicle's performance, but I'm not sure about how detailed the information is stores is. I'm not worried about this happening to me, though, because I plan to leave everything stock for a while. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-01-2004, 12:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
CrazySaturn Insane Location: Champaign, IL	My take is that if the car is marketed as a sports car, it should be covered warranty-wise as such. __________________ What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

07-01-2004, 06:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Yeah thats definately fair for them to not cover they warranty...racing is hard on an engine....no matter what. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

09-10-2004, 08:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
pinion Upright Location: Kalafornya	I think Mitsubishi has fallen off of it's freakin' rocker and may not ever get up. This is ridiculous, it's like selling someone a mountain bike and then voiding the warranty when you find dirt on the tires. We're talking about Evos here - 270hp, turbo charged, 4wd, (supposedly) race bred rockets. Tell me these cars weren't built to be driven. Or maybe it's just an illusion and the rods are made of toothpicks.. Autocrossing isn't really that hard on cars, autocrossing is hard on tires - drag racing, inexperienced drivers, trees and Armorall are hard on cars; three minutes in a parking lot at 60mph and a couple of smashed cones shouldn't be much of a threat to a confident, competent manufacturer. Then again I guess Mitsu isn't really known for their reliability. It's really too bad, I autocross regularly and the Evos are impressive to watch and very competitive. They don't offer much other than performance though, I think they're kinda silly looking and the interior leaves a lot to be desired. If Mitsu is gonna have a cow when people actually go drive the cars then I guess the drivers will be spending their money elsewhere.. Long live Mazdaspeed.. __________________ The silent truth asserts it's proof like you abhor.

07-01-2004, 12:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I used to work at a Chevy dealer, and we would always get people that had obviously raced their Camaro's and 'vettes, and they would always get pissed when we wouldn't warranty their engines and transmissions. Usually if it wasn't too obvious that they had raced we would cover it though.

07-01-2004, 07:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Just like the warranty on the Wrangler and Rubicon that voids the second you leave paved roads.

07-01-2004, 10:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
BooRadley Insane Location: Kentucky	This is one of my biggest pet peeves with motorsports lately. People buy cars they cannot realistically afford to tear up. They have 3 years of payments left on a vehicle that gets the piss flogged out of it, and then try to get it fixed under warranty. And in many car message boards, you will see half a dozen threads of how someone has modified their engine, and then take it back to stock and get it fixed under warranty. Pisses me off. Pretty soon automobile manufacturers are going to have to have comprhensive "spyboxes" just to keep costs down thanks to a selective group of asshats.

07-03-2004, 11:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
otter Upright	Beware if you use your new Mitsubishi (such as an Evo or Ralliart) for AutoX or any SCCA events. They actively search online SCCA results for Mitsu cars + Driver names. If they find a match to cars under warranty in their records, you're done.

07-04-2004, 04:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
wakelagger Insane Location: Toronto	BooRadley, I remember reading on a Subaru forum about a guy that stockified his self-enhanced-warranty-voiding WRX in order to get it repaired under warranty. He posted it on the forum in a joking, almost bragging sense. Another Forum goer, not wanting to the shoulder the price of this man's abuse in his next vehicle purchase or repair, called up every Subaru dealership in the area and told them about this dick's warranty-voiding and fraudulent act. Subaru looked into it, found the WRX, and made the dick pay the bill and/or cancelled his powertrain warranty (I forget). I think the thread may have been linked on an older TFP.

07-08-2004, 03:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
lefty8080 Upright	From what I understand some of the computers these days do have some spy functions. Also you can't blame the manufacturers for not covering this. It is so easy to totally screw a motor with a missed shift and that is very easy for amatuers to do. If you have two bad rods and a bad turbo, it really starts to sound like abuse.

07-14-2004, 04:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
fastom Psycho Location: way out west	Damn rights the 'puters have spy functions. They come in handy for insurance investigators. A guy i know rented a car with data logging, they plugged it in upon return and charged him extra for every instance of exceeding 6000rpm. In reading that report i come to only one obvious conclusion.... buy a Ford!

09-08-2004, 08:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	That's a shame, but I suppose I can understand it partially. Some people will race almost daily, and the engine and other parts will see faster wear and tear. As for me, I went out and bought a Porsche 914. Autocrossing is a dream in this car that you can get starting at like $2k.

09-10-2004, 12:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
solo2020 Tilted Location: Los Angeles	I've done worse then auto-x in my Jetta 1.8T. My car runs fine. Early maintenance and some basic care should keep your car in good/decent condition. With the Subaru offering the SCCA course with their car, it is very possible that they can be held liable if they deny warrany. However, most owners should keep a certain amount of discretion when it comes to how hard they push their cars.