Car audio - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

soccerchamp76 · 12-20-2003, 10:43 AM

I was thinking of adding a subwoofer to my car.
I already have a Pioneer CD Head unit and but i need some bass to take the load off of my speakers.

Question: What are the advantages of having two subwoofers versus having just one (without the obvious less power). I am limited financially so 1 subwoofer would be ideal but I wanna hear some opinions.

Thanks in advance

DEI37 · 12-20-2003, 04:36 PM

In my opinion, if you're just after some additional bass to round out the sound, a single 10" sub will do just fine. I would use an Infinity or Polk sub, and power it with a 150watt mono bass amp by either MTX, or a Rockford Fosgate Power series amp.

soccerchamp76 · 12-21-2003, 07:59 AM

That's what I was wondering. I am not looking for the 2000-watt dual 15" bass that takes over the music. Whenever I play 'bassy' songs the speakers have to play more bass and then the higher notes dont sound as good. I was maybe thinking of this:

Box $69.99

Subwoofer $99
Audiobahn Performer Series AWC10T 50-400 watt RMS (800 peak)

Amplifier $149.99
Profile California CA600M

Total Bill: $320 at Crutchfield.com
Could be a lot cheaper finding them at various wholesale sites on Yahoo.com

Then again, I might go to Bestbuy and drop $200 on an assembled kit (box+sub+amp all-in-1)

DEI37 · 12-21-2003, 10:13 AM

You could do worse. I would personally use a different sub, and I hold the opinion that sealed boxes are better. They ARE more accurate, and less boomy. It sounds like that's what you're after. As I mentioned, I highly recommend Infinity products. I use them in my car, and I love 'em. I'm with ya though, on needing a sub. I plan on a single 10" when I can afford it.

With that setup, you'll have loud bass for sure...that's a 300w RMS amp!!! Personally, here's my recommendation for ya.

Amp: Kenwood KAC-5201 40x2, or 120x1 bridged (the way you'd run it) $99.99

Sub: Infinity Reference 1030w (Handles up to 250w RMS) $89.99

Box: Q-Logic QLH-CL10 (10" single hatch sealed box) $59.99

Also, remember that you'll have to get a wiring kit for the amp, and speaker wire for the amp to the sub. I've got you at $250 for this setup, plus wiring.

brandon11983 · 12-21-2003, 10:16 AM

The sub and amp you have there should be more than adequate. I would recommend against the bandpass box because they tend to be extremely boomy in a very tight frequency range. You will have teeth rattling bass from, say, 45-60 Hz... but you will have poor low end definition, and it is very difficult to hear the driver stressing in a bandpass box. Even though it isn't "dual 15's, 2000 watts" it will sound like it is "taking over the music." I would recommend putting it in a small sealed box. You'll have a much smoother response, excellent low end, and you will hear the driver if it is under stress.

edit: good points DEI, you beat me to the punch on posting them.

noblejr · 12-21-2003, 02:16 PM

looks good except for the california amp. I've had bad experiences with those amps.

soccerchamp76 · 12-22-2003, 07:50 PM

For a Sony XPLOD subwoofer, they are hexagon shaped (or some similar shape, not circular) do I have to buy a special box for it or would it fit in a normal sub box?

brandon11983 · 12-24-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soccerchamp76
For a Sony XPLOD subwoofer, they are hexagon shaped (or some similar shape, not circular) do I have to buy a special box for it or would it fit in a normal sub box?

Nope. It's a regular frame with a hexagon shaped (why???) cone.

soccerchamp76 · 12-24-2003, 09:11 PM

According to Sony, it's more 'sturdy' construction and for 'cleaner sound'.
Think this is a good setup?
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=39730

I might hesitate on updating the 4-speakers to see how the sub makes the setup sound.

Atomic Pinkie · 12-27-2003, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brandon11983
The sub and amp you have there should be more than adequate. I would recommend against the bandpass box because they tend to be extremely boomy in a very tight frequency range. You will have teeth rattling bass from, say, 45-60 Hz... but you will have poor low end definition, and it is very difficult to hear the driver stressing in a bandpass box. Even though it isn't "dual 15's, 2000 watts" it will sound like it is "taking over the music." I would recommend putting it in a small sealed box. You'll have a much smoother response, excellent low end, and you will hear the driver if it is under stress.

edit: good points DEI, you beat me to the punch on posting them.

regardless, you can only have a true bandpass without wave distortions if you have something VERY LONG to put the box in....length of a huge pickup truck.

I was at the shop when the installers were discussing it.

*shrug*

stinkynutz · 12-29-2003, 09:37 AM

I'm with DEI37 on this one. In my opinion, it's better to have a sealed enclosure rather than the bandpass.
Plus, I'm a fan of Infinity speakers. They are pretty good quality.

Atomic Pinkie · 01-01-2004, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stinkynutz
I'm with DEI37 on this one. In my opinion, it's better to have a sealed enclosure rather than the bandpass.
Plus, I'm a fan of Infinity speakers. They are pretty good quality.

I myself have a sealed

brandon11983 · 01-01-2004, 06:56 PM

Me too. But I hate Infinity speakers.

BigTruck1956 · 01-02-2004, 06:39 PM

i have a RF 10" sub in a sealed box in my truck and i cant complain...plus it wasnt terribly expensive. the small box fits nicely behind the seat

bellzboy · 01-02-2004, 10:15 PM

I have a Jensen 10" in my car, and it works fine for making ti sound good, although it wont impress with really loud bumpin. (Which I find incredibly annoying)

soccerchamp76 · 01-02-2004, 11:00 PM

My friend has two Pioneer 10" (450 watt each) and he turns it up all the time but it never sounds good. Bass isn't supposed to be overpowering. If I want to hear BOOM BOOM BOOM i'll bang on a table or something. A single 10" or 12" is what I need to complement my system.

Tech · 01-02-2004, 11:57 PM

the Sony is actually a pentagon (5 sides, not 6) but i personally would stay away from Xplod... listening to them side by side with other subs of the same size and power they just don't have the same force. i've never been very impressed with any of the car audio sony has put out other than head units.

i have an Audiobahn Alum-10" with a 300watt (2 channel bridged) MTX Thunder ($200) amp in a sealed custom box. i love my sub. it is just as loud as most people with 2 subs yet is still tight and solid. while my sub is Audiobahn's top of the line (it was $450 list) i would imagine that the quality would trickle down.

as for your amp. i would steer clear of the Profile amps. they are a little on the cheap side (quality wise) if you are looking for a solid amp at a reasonable price, check out MTX or US Acoustics. both are very nice.

my suggestion... (from crutchfield)

amp: $129.00
U.S. acoustics USB-2100
300 watts RMS bridged

sub: $149.00
splurge that extra $50 and get this sub. look at the build on this thing... like a rock. much more solid.
Audiobahn AW1000Q
600 watts RMS
frequency response 23-500 Hz
sensitivity 91.1 dB

for the box, i agree get a sealed box. you'll be happy with it, especially space-wise. ($60)

total = $338 (not including wiring)
it's a *little* more expensive. but you get what you pay for. the last thing you want is to skimp on something and then have it go out on you a year later.

soccerchamp76 · 01-03-2004, 10:52 AM

Thanks Tech, I Yahoo'd the sub and found it for $89. No discount on the amp though; I will have to give system a serious look at.

Scorps · 01-03-2004, 12:18 PM

I got 2 old 10 inch JL's in my van, they do fine but even one 15 would be awesome!

herostar · 01-04-2004, 05:29 PM

Many companies offer 2 for 1 pricing on subwoofers. You will obviously need a 2-sub box, which will be about 20 bucks more, but it's worth it IMO. The way subs make sound is moving air, and 2 subs move more air than one sub.

pocon1 · 01-04-2004, 05:42 PM

From what I remember, two speakers make about 6 db more than one speaker. If 3 db more is twice as loud as the previous sound level, that means two subs make more than twice as much sound, given equal amounts of power. Sealed boxes can be very nice, they don't have to be size matched to the same level as ported boxes. Ported boxes are more efficient, but the rolloff at the lowest bass levels is a lot higher. Remember to make sure the speaker is designed for a sealed or ported box, depending on which way you go. As far as size, larger speakers tend to be more efficient, need less power, and go lower. A 15" in a well-designed box can sound great, it does not have to boom. As far as taking the load off your front speakers, you will need a crossover to do that. If you have full-range inputs running to your mains, thats what you will get. So even if you have a sub with a built-in crossover, you will need another amp to power the fronts.

ubertuber · 01-05-2004, 12:38 PM

I know in a home audio system two subs can be difficult because of phase-cancellation issues. Is this a problem in cars as well? I don't know anything about car audio.

MexicanOnABike · 01-05-2004, 02:22 PM

arent your car speakers good enough?

soccerchamp76 · 01-05-2004, 06:50 PM

Regular stock speakers in a 1988 BMW 325. I also need a 4-channel amp for the speakers so I do not have to rely on the CD player amp to power them.

Scorps · 01-07-2004, 11:37 AM

What ever you do DON'T "PORT" THE SUB BOX

Gnzo · 01-07-2004, 01:20 PM

soccerchamp76, If I missed it, what kind of car. No one here has actually talked about the size of the space you are trying to provide sound for. If it were me (again depending on the size of the cabin, and where you are planning on placing the sub) I might drop down to a cleaner and better performing 8" Sub as opposed to one of the 10" that has been listed above.

Check out the
JL Audio 8W7
Diamond Audio CM3 08D2 or 08D4
All three of these subs will easily out perform any of the subs listed above.

As for ported vs sealed boxes. It totally depends on the speaker and where you are placing it. Just make sure you follow the manufacture's specs, they design their speakers to work with a specific amount to airflow and air volume.

As for your original question. If you purchase a high end 10" sub you should never need more than one, IF your intent is to provide quality sound INSIDE your car. For most cars, 2 high end 8" subs wired in series would even be better. If your intent is to disrupt the listening quality of the person stopped at the light next to you, or you want the world to know you have a loud system in your car, 8" speakers or a single 10" are not the way to go

soccerchamp76 · 01-07-2004, 02:33 PM

The car is tiny, as listed above in the first post: 1988 BMW 325 coupe.

Width/Length, the car is damn small. Speakers are 5.25" (four of them, 2 behind rear seats, 2 in the footwells).

12-20-2003, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Car audio I was thinking of adding a subwoofer to my car. I already have a Pioneer CD Head unit and but i need some bass to take the load off of my speakers. Question: What are the advantages of having two subwoofers versus having just one (without the obvious less power). I am limited financially so 1 subwoofer would be ideal but I wanna hear some opinions. Thanks in advance __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-20-2003, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	In my opinion, if you're just after some additional bass to round out the sound, a single 10" sub will do just fine. I would use an Infinity or Polk sub, and power it with a 150watt mono bass amp by either MTX, or a Rockford Fosgate Power series amp. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-21-2003, 07:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	That's what I was wondering. I am not looking for the 2000-watt dual 15" bass that takes over the music. Whenever I play 'bassy' songs the speakers have to play more bass and then the higher notes dont sound as good. I was maybe thinking of this: Box $69.99 Subwoofer $99 Audiobahn Performer Series AWC10T 50-400 watt RMS (800 peak) Amplifier $149.99 Profile California CA600M Total Bill: $320 at Crutchfield.com Could be a lot cheaper finding them at various wholesale sites on Yahoo.com Then again, I might go to Bestbuy and drop $200 on an assembled kit (box+sub+amp all-in-1) __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-21-2003, 10:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	You could do worse. I would personally use a different sub, and I hold the opinion that sealed boxes are better. They ARE more accurate, and less boomy. It sounds like that's what you're after. As I mentioned, I highly recommend Infinity products. I use them in my car, and I love 'em. I'm with ya though, on needing a sub. I plan on a single 10" when I can afford it. With that setup, you'll have loud bass for sure...that's a 300w RMS amp!!! Personally, here's my recommendation for ya. Amp: Kenwood KAC-5201 40x2, or 120x1 bridged (the way you'd run it) $99.99 Sub: Infinity Reference 1030w (Handles up to 250w RMS) $89.99 Box: Q-Logic QLH-CL10 (10" single hatch sealed box) $59.99 Also, remember that you'll have to get a wiring kit for the amp, and speaker wire for the amp to the sub. I've got you at $250 for this setup, plus wiring. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-21-2003, 10:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	The sub and amp you have there should be more than adequate. I would recommend against the bandpass box because they tend to be extremely boomy in a very tight frequency range. You will have teeth rattling bass from, say, 45-60 Hz... but you will have poor low end definition, and it is very difficult to hear the driver stressing in a bandpass box. Even though it isn't "dual 15's, 2000 watts" it will sound like it is "taking over the music." I would recommend putting it in a small sealed box. You'll have a much smoother response, excellent low end, and you will hear the driver if it is under stress. edit: good points DEI, you beat me to the punch on posting them. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history. Last edited by brandon11983; 12-21-2003 at 10:18 AM..

12-21-2003, 02:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
noblejr Crazy Location: Atlanta	looks good except for the california amp. I've had bad experiences with those amps.

12-22-2003, 07:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	For a Sony XPLOD subwoofer, they are hexagon shaped (or some similar shape, not circular) do I have to buy a special box for it or would it fit in a normal sub box? __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-24-2003, 09:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	According to Sony, it's more 'sturdy' construction and for 'cleaner sound'. Think this is a good setup? http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=39730 I might hesitate on updating the 4-speakers to see how the sub makes the setup sound. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-29-2003, 09:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
stinkynutz Insane	I'm with DEI37 on this one. In my opinion, it's better to have a sealed enclosure rather than the bandpass. Plus, I'm a fan of Infinity speakers. They are pretty good quality.

01-01-2004, 06:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	Me too. But I hate Infinity speakers. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

01-02-2004, 06:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
BigTruck1956 Psycho Location: norcal	i have a RF 10" sub in a sealed box in my truck and i cant complain...plus it wasnt terribly expensive. the small box fits nicely behind the seat __________________ so much to do, so little time.....at least i aint bored.

01-02-2004, 10:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
bellzboy Crazy	I have a Jensen 10" in my car, and it works fine for making ti sound good, although it wont impress with really loud bumpin. (Which I find incredibly annoying)

01-02-2004, 11:00 PM	#16 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	My friend has two Pioneer 10" (450 watt each) and he turns it up all the time but it never sounds good. Bass isn't supposed to be overpowering. If I want to hear BOOM BOOM BOOM i'll bang on a table or something. A single 10" or 12" is what I need to complement my system. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

01-02-2004, 11:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tech Addict Location: Baltimore MD	the Sony is actually a pentagon (5 sides, not 6) but i personally would stay away from Xplod... listening to them side by side with other subs of the same size and power they just don't have the same force. i've never been very impressed with any of the car audio sony has put out other than head units. i have an Audiobahn Alum-10" with a 300watt (2 channel bridged) MTX Thunder ($200) amp in a sealed custom box. i love my sub. it is just as loud as most people with 2 subs yet is still tight and solid. while my sub is Audiobahn's top of the line (it was $450 list) i would imagine that the quality would trickle down. as for your amp. i would steer clear of the Profile amps. they are a little on the cheap side (quality wise) if you are looking for a solid amp at a reasonable price, check out MTX or US Acoustics. both are very nice. my suggestion... (from crutchfield) amp: $129.00 U.S. acoustics USB-2100 300 watts RMS bridged sub: $149.00 splurge that extra $50 and get this sub. look at the build on this thing... like a rock. much more solid. Audiobahn AW1000Q 600 watts RMS frequency response 23-500 Hz sensitivity 91.1 dB for the box, i agree get a sealed box. you'll be happy with it, especially space-wise. ($60) total = $338 (not including wiring) it's a little more expensive. but you get what you pay for. the last thing you want is to skimp on something and then have it go out on you a year later. __________________ -Tim- ~I swear sometimes i feel like i'm married to a child. ~You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois, cause if i'm a child than you know what that makes you? a pedophile. and i'll be damned if i'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert.

01-03-2004, 10:52 AM	#18 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Thanks Tech, I Yahoo'd the sub and found it for $89. No discount on the amp though; I will have to give system a serious look at. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

01-03-2004, 12:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	I got 2 old 10 inch JL's in my van, they do fine but even one 15 would be awesome! __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

01-04-2004, 05:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
herostar Psycho Location: South Dakota	Many companies offer 2 for 1 pricing on subwoofers. You will obviously need a 2-sub box, which will be about 20 bucks more, but it's worth it IMO. The way subs make sound is moving air, and 2 subs move more air than one sub. __________________ Got time to chill?

01-04-2004, 05:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	From what I remember, two speakers make about 6 db more than one speaker. If 3 db more is twice as loud as the previous sound level, that means two subs make more than twice as much sound, given equal amounts of power. Sealed boxes can be very nice, they don't have to be size matched to the same level as ported boxes. Ported boxes are more efficient, but the rolloff at the lowest bass levels is a lot higher. Remember to make sure the speaker is designed for a sealed or ported box, depending on which way you go. As far as size, larger speakers tend to be more efficient, need less power, and go lower. A 15" in a well-designed box can sound great, it does not have to boom. As far as taking the load off your front speakers, you will need a crossover to do that. If you have full-range inputs running to your mains, thats what you will get. So even if you have a sub with a built-in crossover, you will need another amp to power the fronts.

01-05-2004, 12:38 PM	#22 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	I know in a home audio system two subs can be difficult because of phase-cancellation issues. Is this a problem in cars as well? I don't know anything about car audio. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

01-05-2004, 02:22 PM	#23 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	arent your car speakers good enough? __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

01-05-2004, 06:50 PM	#24 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Regular stock speakers in a 1988 BMW 325. I also need a 4-channel amp for the speakers so I do not have to rely on the CD player amp to power them. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

01-07-2004, 11:37 AM	#25 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	What ever you do DON'T "PORT" THE SUB BOX __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

01-07-2004, 01:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
Gnzo Insane	soccerchamp76, If I missed it, what kind of car. No one here has actually talked about the size of the space you are trying to provide sound for. If it were me (again depending on the size of the cabin, and where you are planning on placing the sub) I might drop down to a cleaner and better performing 8" Sub as opposed to one of the 10" that has been listed above. Check out the JL Audio 8W7 Diamond Audio CM3 08D2 or 08D4 All three of these subs will easily out perform any of the subs listed above. As for ported vs sealed boxes. It totally depends on the speaker and where you are placing it. Just make sure you follow the manufacture's specs, they design their speakers to work with a specific amount to airflow and air volume. As for your original question. If you purchase a high end 10" sub you should never need more than one, IF your intent is to provide quality sound INSIDE your car. For most cars, 2 high end 8" subs wired in series would even be better. If your intent is to disrupt the listening quality of the person stopped at the light next to you, or you want the world to know you have a loud system in your car, 8" speakers or a single 10" are not the way to go Last edited by Gnzo; 01-07-2004 at 01:23 PM..

01-07-2004, 02:33 PM	#27 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	The car is tiny, as listed above in the first post: 1988 BMW 325 coupe. Width/Length, the car is damn small. Speakers are 5.25" (four of them, 2 behind rear seats, 2 in the footwells). __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.