I want to put a Jag V12 into an 83 Cougar - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

silent_jay · 12-18-2003, 10:43 PM

There is an 83 cougar my parents have with only 72 thousand kilometers on it totally mint never seen snow. the only problem it has a 6. a Jag V12 would fit nicely maybe even with a super charger. then comes the tranny and the rear end oh this car will be fun. any thoughts.

bad30th · 12-18-2003, 11:29 PM

are you talking about a newer V12 or an older V12?

BigTruck1956 · 12-19-2003, 02:06 AM

silent_jay · 12-19-2003, 04:55 AM

either or why not?

Kurant · 12-19-2003, 06:40 AM

Good luck finding a blower/supercharge for that V12. You'll spend more for a blower then you could ever sell that car for. You'd probably have to change asome internals, new fuel system, I bet by the time your done you'd be looking at close to 8-10g's to completely make the swap, with a charger.

Other then that, if you can safely fabricate new brackets, it would fit under the hood. If everything, driveshaft, etc.. etc.. would connect to it, well, that's be a different story. Also, wasen't one of the jag v12's mounted sideways?

You'd be better off putting a ford 5.4L supercharged in it. MOre HP then the v12, and proven itself. You can probably get one for 4g's witht he charger. Or find a wrecked Harley Edition f-150 or a lightning.

Moonduck · 12-19-2003, 07:39 AM

So, your Cougar just doesn't leak enough oil now, right? That's the real reason? =)

Scorps · 12-19-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moonduck
So, your Cougar just doesn't leak enough oil now, right? That's the real reason? =)

ROFL

silent_jay · 12-21-2003, 11:47 AM

never has leaked oil.

merkerguitars · 12-24-2003, 09:36 AM

You could easily put a 351W or a 302 that is in the car...it would be way easier to install.

silent_jay · 12-24-2003, 05:42 PM

not looking for easy. i want to be different

Kurant · 12-24-2003, 05:51 PM

With enough fabrication and money anything is possible.

I woulden't count on finding a supercharger for that V12 though.

silent_jay · 12-24-2003, 10:31 PM

it will be interesting to see what's out there. i don't really want to change the body styling too much, i want to keep that original look to it. there is a picture of one at the Classic Cougar Forum with a Jag front end on it but it is absolutley hideous, i mean really ugly. the guy thinks it's cool but no.

billege · 12-25-2003, 01:08 AM

I hope you either are, or know, a very good metal fabricator. I also hope you are very good at welding, metal forming and cutting. Oh yeah, I also hope you are prepared to change the car's entire structure to make the engine fit.

That swap is akin to trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I swear. There is a HUGE buttload of work and skill involved to try anything like that. You're asking to do something very difficult.
So...
I've got to ask: Do you have any idea what's involved in a swap like that? Are you aware that you'll have to:

fabricate new motor mounts

likley re-do the entire steering rack

cut, bend, weld, the floor pan to make the (new) transmission fit

custom build all the brackets and linkages for the gas, brake, clutch pedals

build a new fuel system

rewire the entire insturment panel (with two incompatable systems)

find someway to make the gear selector work with the new trans. If the new one is auto, and so is the Cougar I suppose you could do it. If the new onr is stick, vs atuo Cougar, I hope you like doing interior work. 'Cause you're gonna have to start choppping the center console...it gets worse from there.

build a seriously custom exaust

modify the driveshaft

modify the rear end

likely have to re-do the entire rear suspension

hope the front suspension doesn't require any modification.

the whole process you also have to HOPE there IS room for all the new hardware. If there's not, you'll have to find a way to make it fit. That's when one starts cutting metal.

Basically, unless you're an very, very, very, competent mechanic this is not even feasable.
Even if you are a master mech, you'd better have a shitload of time and money.

Save yourself the trouble, throw a 5.0L in it. I know the later year Cougars had one (at least as an option), and I think it's certainly possible yours did too.

Then you're only out more money than the car is worth, and a semi-shitload of time.

silent_jay · 12-25-2003, 06:07 AM

there's plenty of room under the hood i could fit another engine in there with the 6 still inside. i have no desire to put a 5L in it the whole point of this is to be different, the supercharger doesn't need to be there but the engine bay has plenty of rooom to accomodate a 12

billege · 12-25-2003, 12:31 PM

Well that's great you want to be different. Go ahead and do it.

I've just seen a lot of people attempt something that complicated without knowing what the hell they're getting into. Then they quit.

My point in a nutshell is this:
Nothing will just "fit," you'll have to make EVERYTHING fit.

Nothing will line up, and bolt in. You'll have to figure it all out.

None of the wiring will work. You'll have to custom wire the whole thing.

None of the driveline components will mate. You have to build all of the mounting points.

The jag engine WILL need a jag transmission. You hope it "fits" in the Merc's trans tunnel.

Oh, but it won't match any mounting points either, now make those too...

If you can accomplish such a swap, it'll be one of those things where everyone who has ANY idea how much work was involved will appreciate it with awe.

First thing you need to do, is get complete, FACTORY manuals for the merc and the jag. NOT THE CHEAP HAYNES manuals, they will NOT have the detail and specific info you're going to need.

You need explicit schematics of the merc's enitire drivetrain, and the jag's too. That will enable you to start planning what parts you'll have to make.

Find a damn good machine shop. They're going to get a lot of your cash, so don't waste it.

I'd like to know, just out of curiosity, what's the most complex auto mechanical job you've ever done?

Have you ever swapped an engine? Removed one, rebuilt it, put it back?

Luck.

silent_jay · 12-25-2003, 03:03 PM

thanks for the advice it will be helpful.

12-18-2003, 10:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	I want to put a Jag V12 into an 83 Cougar There is an 83 cougar my parents have with only 72 thousand kilometers on it totally mint never seen snow. the only problem it has a 6. a Jag V12 would fit nicely maybe even with a super charger. then comes the tranny and the rear end oh this car will be fun. any thoughts. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-19-2003, 02:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
BigTruck1956 Psycho Location: norcal	why? __________________ so much to do, so little time.....at least i aint bored.

12-19-2003, 04:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	either or why not? __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-21-2003, 11:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	never has leaked oil. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-24-2003, 09:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	You could easily put a 351W or a 302 that is in the car...it would be way easier to install. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

12-18-2003, 11:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
bad30th Insane Location: [insert witty play on location field here]	are you talking about a newer V12 or an older V12?

12-19-2003, 06:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	Good luck finding a blower/supercharge for that V12. You'll spend more for a blower then you could ever sell that car for. You'd probably have to change asome internals, new fuel system, I bet by the time your done you'd be looking at close to 8-10g's to completely make the swap, with a charger. Other then that, if you can safely fabricate new brackets, it would fit under the hood. If everything, driveshaft, etc.. etc.. would connect to it, well, that's be a different story. Also, wasen't one of the jag v12's mounted sideways? You'd be better off putting a ford 5.4L supercharged in it. MOre HP then the v12, and proven itself. You can probably get one for 4g's witht he charger. Or find a wrecked Harley Edition f-150 or a lightning.

12-19-2003, 07:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	So, your Cougar just doesn't leak enough oil now, right? That's the real reason? =)

12-24-2003, 05:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	not looking for easy. i want to be different __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-24-2003, 05:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	With enough fabrication and money anything is possible. I woulden't count on finding a supercharger for that V12 though.

12-24-2003, 10:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	it will be interesting to see what's out there. i don't really want to change the body styling too much, i want to keep that original look to it. there is a picture of one at the Classic Cougar Forum with a Jag front end on it but it is absolutley hideous, i mean really ugly. the guy thinks it's cool but no. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-25-2003, 01:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I hope you either are, or know, a very good metal fabricator. I also hope you are very good at welding, metal forming and cutting. Oh yeah, I also hope you are prepared to change the car's entire structure to make the engine fit. That swap is akin to trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole. I'm not trying to discourage you, I swear. There is a HUGE buttload of work and skill involved to try anything like that. You're asking to do something very difficult. So... I've got to ask: Do you have any idea what's involved in a swap like that? Are you aware that you'll have to: fabricate new motor mounts likley re-do the entire steering rack cut, bend, weld, the floor pan to make the (new) transmission fit custom build all the brackets and linkages for the gas, brake, clutch pedals build a new fuel system rewire the entire insturment panel (with two incompatable systems) find someway to make the gear selector work with the new trans. If the new one is auto, and so is the Cougar I suppose you could do it. If the new onr is stick, vs atuo Cougar, I hope you like doing interior work. 'Cause you're gonna have to start choppping the center console...it gets worse from there. build a seriously custom exaust modify the driveshaft modify the rear end likely have to re-do the entire rear suspension hope the front suspension doesn't require any modification. the whole process you also have to HOPE there IS room for all the new hardware. If there's not, you'll have to find a way to make it fit. That's when one starts cutting metal. Basically, unless you're an very, very, very, competent mechanic this is not even feasable. Even if you are a master mech, you'd better have a shitload of time and money. Save yourself the trouble, throw a 5.0L in it. I know the later year Cougars had one (at least as an option), and I think it's certainly possible yours did too. Then you're only out more money than the car is worth, and a semi-shitload of time. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 12-25-2003 at 01:14 AM..

12-25-2003, 06:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	there's plenty of room under the hood i could fit another engine in there with the 6 still inside. i have no desire to put a 5L in it the whole point of this is to be different, the supercharger doesn't need to be there but the engine bay has plenty of rooom to accomodate a 12 __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

12-25-2003, 12:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Well that's great you want to be different. Go ahead and do it. I've just seen a lot of people attempt something that complicated without knowing what the hell they're getting into. Then they quit. My point in a nutshell is this: Nothing will just "fit," you'll have to make EVERYTHING fit. Nothing will line up, and bolt in. You'll have to figure it all out. None of the wiring will work. You'll have to custom wire the whole thing. None of the driveline components will mate. You have to build all of the mounting points. The jag engine WILL need a jag transmission. You hope it "fits" in the Merc's trans tunnel. Oh, but it won't match any mounting points either, now make those too... If you can accomplish such a swap, it'll be one of those things where everyone who has ANY idea how much work was involved will appreciate it with awe. First thing you need to do, is get complete, FACTORY manuals for the merc and the jag. NOT THE CHEAP HAYNES manuals, they will NOT have the detail and specific info you're going to need. You need explicit schematics of the merc's enitire drivetrain, and the jag's too. That will enable you to start planning what parts you'll have to make. Find a damn good machine shop. They're going to get a lot of your cash, so don't waste it. I'd like to know, just out of curiosity, what's the most complex auto mechanical job you've ever done? Have you ever swapped an engine? Removed one, rebuilt it, put it back? Luck. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

12-25-2003, 03:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	thanks for the advice it will be helpful. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder