apetaster

On the highway to Gramma's house yesterday I noticed a slight rattle from the engine of my 97 Subaru Outback (88k miles)
at about 4500 RPM in 5th. About 30 seconds later it suddenly turned into a rotating cacaphony of an engine that sounded like it was on its' way to seizing. No smoke, just noise.

I let off the accelerator, started coasting to the shoulder and as I did so the oil pressure light came on. I turned off the ignition immediately as I was coasting to the shoulder. Figuring the engine was running low on oil I took a measurement and the dipstick was dry. I took the 2 quarts of oil I keep in the car and put them into the crankcase, waited a few minutes and turned the car over - it started but still had a lot of racket, so I turned it off and called for a tow.

Took it to the nearest Subaru dealer, who called me this AM and told me that the engine was bone dry and had zero oil in it. I told him that I had put in two quarts after the breakdown and he said it was bone dry, but did not agree that there was a leak (there was no oil on the flatbed wrecker nor on the spot on the road where threw in the oil (it's about a 5-6 quart engine or so, I think) He told me I needed a new engine, plain and simple. I have reason to distrust this dealer as I've just heard some less than positive things about their service policies, so would ideally like to be able to take the car to a local shop who I trust.

BTW - I checked the oil in Oct and added 3/4 quart and it was just about at the full line of the dipstick - no leaks on my garage floor... I asked if the plug was loose, the oil filter was seated or there was a crack or gasket failure and they stated that they did not see any sign of failure of leakage.

Question is - if the engine is really shot, is there any harm in my bringing along 5 quarts of oil with me and a cellphone whith AAA on redial and attempting to top off the crankcase with oil and drive to the local garage (with my wife following in her car?) The engine I believe will still turn over, so it's not totally seized. Is this doable if I drive gingerly?

Thanks in advance.

JStrider

well if the engine isnt totally shot... that driving could finish it off... some shops will tow it to their place for free...

running out of oil...or losing all oil pressure will mess an engine up real quick...

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apetaster

From everyone I spoke with - the old engine is now a paperweight. It will run (put 4 quarts of oil in it and it seems to be holding them OK) but at higher RPMs clicks a lot.

I guess my question is, if I drive it til it dies (or gets to the repair shop - one guy operation, no towtruck) do I run the risk of damaging some other system on the car (e.g. throw a rod through the hood, or fender in my case?)

Thanks!

mazak

is it a knock or a tick,a lifter[ that has lost its prime will tick] and a definate knock is a connecting rod . its kind of hard to say what will happen. i have seen a few rods crack the side of the block but never seen one go all the way through. good luck and let us knowe how it turns out.

reconmike

when subarus run low on oil the lifters rap to high hell, fill it with oil and bring it just above idle, the noise should dissapate some.
If it does quiet down all you might need is a timing belt and some seals.
if your car isnt smoking blue smoke out the tail pipe then it has a leak.

I would bet it is coming from the front crank seal, a very common problem with subaru.

It is very hard to get one to knock.

let us know how you made out.

Edit....you should be able to drive it with out launching a rod and killing your car.....just take it nice and easy.

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Moonduck

Oil tends to go one of three directions to escape the engine.

1) Old-fashioned leak - You sound as if you've ruled out that possibility given the lack of oil spots below the car. I would also get under the car with a light and see if you have oil all over the underside. The chances of a catastrophic blow (as would coat the bottom of the car) that would leave no oil to drip later are minimal, but it is worth looking at.

2) Into the combustion chamber - This happens a coupla ways.
A) Valve stem oil seals, causing a slow leak that generates a puff of smoke at start or when taking off after idling a bit
B) Blown head gasket/s, causing a lot of smoke and a miss. You would know this fairly quickly as the engine would run like crap.
C) Blown ring/s, piston/s, connecting rod/s allowing oil blowby from the crankcase into the combustion chamber. This is indicated by smoke coming out of the tailpipe and the engine running like crap.

3) Venting into the cooling system somehow - Usually the cooling system operates at higher pressures than the oil circulation system causing coolant to get into the oil. The car responds by overheating, running like crap, etc. Your oil would not be empty, and would look like.... vanilla icre cream and chocolate ice cream melted and mixed together. Yes, it's a rather non-technical description, but it's the most accurate way I can describe it.

On to the noise - minor tick is usually a lifter, rocker, or valve issue (all related assemblies) and is not good, but not devastating. A knock is usually a broken connecting rod (the rod what the piston is mounted to and connects to the crankshaft). This is devastating news.

Frankly, your engine oil had to go somewhere. Most of the directions it would escape in cause smoke from the tailpipe. The ones that don't cause oil spots on the ground. I am very interested to hear how this turns outs and would like to know where your oil went.

As to driving it, it's your car, bro, and your pocketbook. Overall, you probably will need a new mill. Catastrophic engine loss combined with lots of ugly racket usually spell out death for auto engines. However, what you call a lot of racket may not be a lot of racket by my standards. A good mechanic that you can trust is your best buddy here. If the trip isn't far, and isn't through dangerous territory )(ie somewhere you'd not want to break down), then you likely won't hurt anything more by dumping in oil and taking it easy.

I have a Ford Aerostar with a cracked head. Said crack allows coolant to enter into the combustion chamber when the engine is hot. When I go out to start it, it fires up as soon as you hit the key. It doesn't eat oil at all, and so long as I keep the coolant level low, it doesn't really eat coolant either. It just won't start when hot and has power issues. I don't drive the vehicle unless I have to, and only when I know I won't be taking somewhere rough, but it still hauls me around whenever I need it, perfectly reliably cracked head and all. It will not last, this much is plain, but the point I'm making is that ugly engine problems can sometimes show only minor clues, and can leave the vehicle running okay for quite some time. The crack in my Ford has been there for a long while now (it's not worth the money to buy a fresh head, and definitely not worth the labor. When it dies, it dies).

apetaster

Thanks all for the time and insight. The sound is definitely more than a tick, but not a knock as I know it. I found a local guy who some folks a trust a lot recommend wholeheartedly, so I'll see if I can top off the crankcase again, take secondary roads and get the car to him (right now it's at a Subaru dealership lot - they pop the hood, took out the dipstick close the hood and tell me you need a new engine, that'll be $82 dollars for the "diagnostic" or you don't get your keys back.) Subaru dealer - never again (3 strikes on them.)


Again, thanks all for the help. I'll follow up with the results from the local shop guy (I too want to know where my oil went.)

Moonduck

A loud tick may just be a nasty valve issue resulting in your car needing a head replacement. Doesn't really explain where the oil went though.

apetaster

Follow-Up

Went to the car to pick it up yesterday and drive it (as far as possible) to the repair shop. It looked to have held all the oil I put in the crankcase two days earlier. On starting it had a pronounced tick at idle through 2500 RPM. Above 2500 and it turned into a louder clatter (though no metal on metal screeching.)

As we were driving on secondary roads, my wife (who was trailing me called and said that there was constant dripping of liquid from the tailpipe the first 25 minutes it was driving (sounds like longer than the usual condensation drip which usually only happened around startup - 5 minutes.

So oil appeared to be coming out the arse end of the car. A small amount of smoke, but not much.

About 30 minutes into the drive I started losing power slowly - to the point of having the car floored and gradually going from 2500 rpm to about 1000 - almost like it was losing compression. I found a nice spot to pull over and got a tow from there. It's at the shop lot now...we'll see what happens.

Thanks again

Scorps

You blew the the motor man....I have heard blowin engine before.

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Moonduck

Burnt rings, burnt pistons. Sounds nasty.