silent_jay

well this went to hell, can we still debate these cars or is it going to be a flame war because personally I love both these cars, they both have their advantages and disadvantages it's all a matter of opinion, I wasn't defending or degrading either car I respect both equally for what they are and what they do although I do hold a biased towards the Subaru, let's hope this can remain civil

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

BooRadley

I am sure of myself.

FIA WRC cars have wings because they have:
A) No traction to begin with (snow, mud, gravel, and sand come to mind....
B) Have to drive on said surfaces at speeds that are much greater than legal road speeds in a majority of companies
C) Need traction to drive at the aforementioned speeds.

So, how do you get traction when you already have the best tires and the best 4wd system in place? Glue the car to the ground with aerodynamics, hence front & rear wings.

How does this translate to your on-road experience? It doesn't.
This is comparing apples and oranges.

The race prepared rally cars have a few elements in common with the street cars, but are radically different in purpose and construction.

Purpose :
Rally car : Go on low-traction surfaces at retardedly fast speeds.
Street car : Drive to Dairy queen. Look good for the ladies.

Construction :

Rally car: Bulletproof transmission, shop-fabricated chassis with complete roll protection & lexan windows, modified engine, top of the line suspension and driveline components. Racing seats. No stereo. Looks like a rally car. Tires that cost thousands of dollars apiece.

Street car: Built in a factory. Has a stereo. Used for carrying people. Racing-styled seats. Looks like a rally car. Subject to numerous DOT and other governing body regulations. Has airbags. Weighs hundreds of pounds more than the rally car.

If you think the Subaru WRX you drive is the same as a WRC, you are wrong. Here's yet another hint : WRCs cost probably cost $75k+ to build . You won't get one for cheap because the factory is being nice.

Lets take the Subaru WRX.

For the street, you have 4wd drive and decent sport tires. You shouldn't ever have a traction problem with 99% of legal driving. You aren't going to be cornering at 10/10ths of the cars ability, where the spoiler really makes the difference ( because it only makes a difference at higher speeds >50 mph ). I'm talking about flying through a small radius, 80+ degree corner, you know, one marked 15 or 25, tires screeching and passengers shitting themselves.

Therefore, the factory spoiler is factory rice. It is there more for aesthetics than performance.

Now, if you were doing ralleys and SCCA autocrosses on a regular basis, the spoiler would be a worthwhile feature of the car. But for crusing to the strip mall, it is useless.

But, I suppose you knew all this, as you are an expert in WRC and all things automobiles, and I have wasted my time typing this.

silent_jay

wow good job you read a lot to figure this out. By the way they do have traction on snow, mud, gravel, which is why they probably have different tire combinations for the aforementioned conditions. While I agree that the wings both front and rear do contribute to keeping the car on the track, if you think they do this all by themselves well sorry. I don't drive a WRX sorry don't know where you got that from, and maybe try and keep thing to the topic at hand I never said I was an expert on WRC show me where I did oops you can't, your post was so good until the last line when you just couldn't resist the urge to be a dick, try and resist that urge, I'm not starting a flamewar by any means read your last line and tell me what it sounds like, people assume so much here, yet they know so little about the people they are badmouthing it is rather comical.

I guess that all cars need then are body kits to keep them glued to the road, or so BooRadley thinks, oh well some people.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

bad30th

Periods (.) are your friend silent_jay. Do us all a favor, eh?

Great post BooRadley.

silent_jay

Are you an English professor now as well bad30th? I could care less what you think of my punction I thought this was a forum to voice opinions, not to see who has the best punctuation. Can you let anything go by without inserting your own little bit of stupidity? I bet you can't.
Not surprising your view on the subject, maybe we should throw in a GTO for you as well. Oh yeah an American saying eh how just wrong.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

silent_jay

can we now debate the virtues of these 2 cars rather than the stupidity of the each other?

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bad30th

If you had an ounce of intelligence whatsoever, you would understand that it is easier to understand and comprehend someone when they at least attempt to use some sort of separation between their sentences. By typing a run-on, babbling paragraph like this.... ....not only is it hard to understand, but you make yourself look like an idiot. People dont tend to listen to idiots, which is probably why youve only found acceptance in the Nonsense forum.

Now go ahead and tell me you dont care what I think about you or what any else thinks about you. Which is funny because if you actually didnt care, then why would you be reacting the way you do? Why even post here?

And what the fuck does... ....mean? It makes absolutely no sense. I am guessing you are trying to insult me because I am American for some reason? Maybe? Again, my point.......write so people can comprehend you and you will be taken a little more seriously.

silent_jay

wow I bow to you oh great one, give me a fucking break, first off don't call me an idiot unless you really want this to get ugly. The eh comment was meant as a joke sorry maybe I should use your witty little emoticons, if I didn't think they were retarded. So I don't have an ounce of intelligence, well from what I have read you are the all and end all of fucking car knowledge. Every post in every thread that you have has been nothing but you thinking you are right, or trying to belittle someone when things don't go your way, maybe you should try and grow the fuck up and realise that there are actually people out there that do have knowledge on the subjects that are brought up here call it rambling if you like but fucking read it and try and comprehend it because, insulting and belittleing people is not the way to be taken seriously.

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bad30th

ok you win, yet again.

BooRadley

First of all, compared to asphalt and concrete, snow, mud, and gravel have very little traction. No way. Even the best off-road tire in existance made for mud will not give you the same amount of traction as a sticky on-road race tire on a clean asphault surface. The only time you might get close is studded ice tires on ice. They grip suprisingly well.

The wings aren't the only thing keeping the car glued to the track, there are many other factors involved. But without the wings, the car couldn't go the speeds it does around the track.


Yes, I have read alot to figure this out... been reading it for years. I've read books on race car dynamics, participated in a college race car design team, are an member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, and am close to completing my mechanical engineering degree(senior).

If I was starting a flamewar, I wouldn't spend time typing up these posts. I'm trying to educate people, and share some knowledge. If I'm smartass sometimes, I apologize, it is no worse than anyone else in this forum.

silent_jay

aw sorry I won't reply to your witty comments next time, I guess you are the only one who is allowed to do that. Man what a joke.

Never said you would have the same traction in snow, mud, gravel, just said they have different tire combinations to improve traction, trust me I live in Canada, I know all about traction. Why be surprised how well studded tires grip, that is their intended purpose.

Very impressive list of accomplishments, and I mean that , that's really cool

Yeah really after having the smartest man in motors (bad30th) try and do whatever he was trying to accomplish, you really didn't say anything, sorry dude and good luck on your degree.

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bad30th

Yes. Yes you are.

From your responses/insults and the way you communicate, I seriously cannot believe that you are any older than 12.

Just as an FYI...

Like BooRadley, when next semester starts up in August, I'll be a senior as well (Mechanical Engineering specializing in Aeronautics).

Member of Society of Manufacturing Engineering

I also have done some extensive reading concerning cars, mostly driving theory and technique.

Taken a couple of instructional sessions with a few of my local accomplished AutoX drivers.

Trophy'ed in Novice 1 class (includes all novice F-bodies, Corvettes, S2000s, WRXs, Mustangs, etc) my first season out AutoXing with my big fat piece of shit Camaro.

Worked on cars for a solid 5 years for a living.

I'm not telling you any of this to brag, or to overshadow BooRadley's list (not that it does), but to tell you that I'm not some jackass kid who goes online spouting shit to try and impress people. Sorta like this guy I know of who comes on here and thinks that because he supposedly owns a 20B swapped 2.5RS Subaru (which strangely he cannot produce any pictures of), that he is the be all and end all of automotive knowledge, and that gives him the right to insult and belittle other people's opinions and contributions for no apparent reason other than the fact that they oppose his own. Damn I wish I could remember that guys name.......

Congrats man... do you feel like you've been in school forever, or is that just me? Oh, by the way.....whatever you have accomplished/experienced/know, it is wrong if silent_jay doesnt agree with it. So just dont even bother. He is right.

Kurant

I want a 20B swapped 2.5RS.

Elitegibson

I'm glad this thread has turned into an e-penis measuring contest. It started as almost informative. Who needs another informative thread anyways?

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-Erik

Stupid people shouldn't breed.

silent_jay

It's a 22B genius, and sorry if I can't justify purchasing a digital camera just to take pics of my car, but well some people have more money than brains. Never said what I say is right and all else is wrong, show me once where I said this, oh wait you can't.

I'm the one belittleing other peoples opinions and contributions for no apparent reason, Pot this is kettle com check over, check your posts bad30th, seems you are guilty of the same. I forgot how being in University made it so you know everything, oh to be young again.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Elitegibson

You don't have to purchase a digicam to take pics of your car. Wal mart will put any roll of film on CD for 4 bucks plus developing. That's a pretty weak reason not to put up pics of your car...

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-Erik

Stupid people shouldn't breed.

silent_jay

sorry I didn't know Wal Mart did that, we don't exactly have one here, but thanks for the suggestion. I really see no need for me to validate what I drive, I could care less if people believe me or not that is you choice, all I know is I drive it to work everyday and that is proof enough for me.

As for that being a "pretty weak reason not to put up pics of my car" that is your opinion, and well it really doesn't matter to me, I'm done with this useless thread, have a blast know it alls

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

pocon1

iMPORTs RULez!!!!

DomesDICKS PWNED11!!11!

STD'S AND evILZ sLAY all OTHEr mUTHufUCKAS!!!

pEEs OUT!! werD!

bad30th

jay, you sure you're not 12?

silent_jay

why don't you grow up, Jesus ya I'm 12.
You see when you are flinging insults as well it really isn't a good idea to call one person 12 because well that usually means all parties involved are immature. Actually I'm 27 and I work for the Canadian Government as an Ammunition Tech (I'm not in school, I'm in the real world, so I can't be in your little know it all club).

If that is your post then maybe the question should be put to you considering you're the one trying to continue this argument with something so stupid as that comment, go and have a flamewar somewhere else . so in closing why don't you just (I'll edit myself), there I saved the mods some work.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

General Giap

Why don't both of you shut the hell up and grow up. This is freaking pathetic.

These next comments are my OPINION no one freak out:

bad30th, you act like you know everything, and constantly try and start a flamewar of some kind by belittleing other people, that is what you do.

jay you also think that you know everything, although not to the extent of the previously mentioned, and yes you punctuation isn't the greatest, but I agree with you it's a forum who really cares.

Both of you have your flaws no one is perfect, I wish people would figure that out. Maybe the two of you should try reading the others opinion on the subject and knock out things like this:
Opening posts with things like this usually isn't the best way to get a point across. I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, and try and stop this shit, seeing as the mods weren't doing anything about it.

The General.

bad30th

unnecessary.

unnecessary.

take your own advice.

unnecessary.

unnecessary.

unnecessary and quite immature.

unnecessary.

unnecessary. yet he came back....weird.

unnecessary and more than a little condescending.

unnecessary and quite immature.

My comments have been in response to all this bullshit.


I am one of the about half a dozen people in Motors who will actually call someone on being a jackass, making immature comments, and just generally being counterproductive. If you'll notice, in my posts that arent in response to idiocy, I give my opinions, and experiences quite frankly, without insult, but often with some jest. Because often times my opinions are strong ones concerning cars, people who disagree with me will often chime in, and its difficult for people on forums to communicate normally and intelligently. I am not saying I havent been guilty of any immaturity, but search my posts.....I never started a god-damned thing.

PS: If you dont like flame wars.....dont fucking read it.

Thats it. I'm out.

silent_jay

You've never started anything that's fuckin funny let's see oh yeah here it is"
hmmmmm that was a productive post, let's see criticizing another person, no not you.

If I had that much time on my hands I'm sure I could have found some great unnecessary things you have said but well I'm not that bored. Yeah you win again great one, I still think a thread where you give out your vast car knowledge would be great and I mean that seriously. What a joke this has turned into I wonder what I could say to get it locked?

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder