Help me talk my buddy out of buying a Miata. - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lyaec123 · 09-06-2003, 09:40 PM

Miata's are chick cars... Buy something with some muscle like a used Camaro or T/A (make sure to get the v8, the v6's are pretty doggy), or even a WRX, though I recently test drove one and wasn't impressed at all... whatever.

Peryn · 09-06-2003, 09:48 PM

ignorance is bliss i guess....

A car thats beggin for boost, can make insane amount of power with stock internals once boosted and still be reliable, and is lighter than almost anything else youll ever drive...

Ya i guess is is just for chicks

castex · 09-07-2003, 11:43 AM

Peryn:

'i think of a BMW 8-series. i think of an slk500. i think of the Audi tt roadster quattro.'

The 'fine driving experience' to which I was referring has to do with balance and chuckability. This car is faithful like very few others. The models you cite are big, heavy cars on fat tyres; and with little sensation of speed. When any of those 3 lets go of the road, it's going to be all at once. The fun of the 'miata' comes in the utterly faithful communication you get from every control. It is balanced in a way the Merc could only dream of; chuckable/driftable like you'd never try in the beemer. The Audi looks okay, but is a golf underneath and consequently it is inert, sullen, clumsy.

None of the qualities I mention above are exclusively the realm of racing drivers. The Mazda is fun at 30 mph; for safe kicks at any speed in one of your grunty champions you'll have to be playing with the electric massage seats

ps. Do they really sell a 5.0 slk over there?!

never · 09-07-2003, 02:43 PM

you should see what these Miatas can really do on hte track. Spec miatas are pretty nuts. Very light nimble cars, but yes they do sometimes look like they belong to a female driver

Lyaec123 · 09-07-2003, 06:33 PM

Yes, apparently they do make very nice track cars, but how often do you need really good handling on the street? Never that I've seen, maybe I live midwest so that changes things, but we really don't have any twisty roads that would be safe or fun to do any high speed cornering on anyway, so it's all about the straightline for me. Plus, what sounds better than the rumble of a huge v8 and enough power to lift the nose of the car up? THATS impressive, not driving a little chick car around and being like "...but it handles well in the corners" Sounds a lot like the excuses that we hear from ricers all the time...

Booboo · 09-07-2003, 07:32 PM

If he's gonna put out that much money.. I would suggest a WRX or a VW golf/gti or something. or jetta even if thats your thing.

or like someone else mentioned an rx-7 can get a nice one for mid 20's.. maybe even less. FAST as hell and they are beautiful looking cars.

rival · 09-07-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

maybe I live midwest so that changes things, but we really don't have any twisty roads that would be safe or fun to do any high speed cornering on

Yeah, not everyone lives in the midwest. Many people have to deal with bends and curves everday.

Quote:

Plus, what sounds better than the rumble of a huge v8 and enough power to lift the nose of the car up? THATS impressive, not driving a little chick car around and being like "...but it handles well in the corners" Sounds a lot like the excuses that we hear from ricers all the time....

Let me get this straight. Enjoying a car because it handles well is stupid but enjoying a car because it sounds impressive when you rev the engine is cool? I'd rather have a car that can corner than one that goes "vroom vroom" really loud.

ratbastid · 09-08-2003, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rival
Yeah, not everyone lives in the midwest. Many people have to deal with bends and curves everday.

As a guy who commutes to work every day in a Miata, let me just offer this small correction:

Many people get to deal with bends and curves every day!

Peryn · 09-08-2003, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Plus, what sounds better than the rumble of a huge v8 and enough power to lift the nose of the car up? THATS impressive, not driving a little chick car

A Huge turbo is what sounds better. That whine is better than any engine revving could hope to accomplish.

And maybe your ricers have a point. Dont knock it till ya try it. There is something addicting about cornering. Try slaloming the lines in the middle of the road at 35 in your awesome sounding v8 drag car.

The miata is purpose built for the track and it does it better for its price than any car produced for the strip. Congratz to mazda on a successful car.

Lyaec123 · 09-08-2003, 09:54 AM

Haha, it's all personal preferance, but any of the newer big muscle cars will handle almost as well as a small can if you aren't pushing them to the very limit as you would on a track. Plus, apart from the weight distribution issue, there are many things you can do to a car to make it handle better, and most of it is fairly cheap. New struts, swaybars, rims, and low pro tires will do wonders to a properly set up car no matter what it was like stock, and would probably cost you under 2 grand if you let someone else do the work. So why not get the best of both worlds and something with a little more power to start with... you'll appreciate it unless you are out at the track doing autocross all the time.

And as for the turbo sound being cooler... again personal preference, but very few people know what turbo whine or a blowoff valve sounds like, so they won't have any idea. I own both a 350+ small block chevy powered truck, and a turbo Mercedes and actually prefer the truck over the mercedes, so I guess it's all up to what you like.

So good luck on the choice, and while I'm sure the miata makes a really nice car, I think there are options that unless you need the ultimate cornering will do great for the price. Even take a look at some of the new Audi's... the TT is a cool little car, might not be the fastest, but its still sweet looking, and the S4 if you can find one is wicked fast, plus they are both AWD, making fun in the snow just that... a little more fun

jimk · 09-08-2003, 02:13 PM

CHICK CAR.

jfranco13 · 09-08-2003, 05:44 PM

I would say screw the new car, you could get a helluva nice, restored 60's Mustang for 20 grand and have money left over.

But if he wants something new, I would look at the Z-car or the Infiniti version (G35 I think) for only a couple grand more. I believe they do have a convertible version, or they will soon.

shakran · 09-08-2003, 08:22 PM

I always wonder why people rag on cars they've never even driven. Drive a Miata and you'll appreciate it. Anyone who thinks a camaro is even remotely close to being in the same handling league as a Miata (both stock) either never takes corners or has never driven a Miata. Sure, a muscle car will handle just as well as a Miata in a straight line, but once you hit the switchbacks, the Miata will leave it in the dust. First off, it's not exactly sporting to compare a modified Camaro to a Miata (even though I'll still put money on the miata in the twisties 95% of the time) because if you put enough time and money into a car you can make it do anything you want it to do. If, however, you're judging a car on its merits rather than the merits of the parts you add to it, you have to compare stock vs stock. Second, even if you upgrade the handling of the camaro by a lot, it will still have a larger transitional roll factor than the miata because you will NEVER get the Camaro down to the Miata's weight. The Miata is so light that it's extremely tossable. It'll switch directions very quickly, and the Camaro simply won't be able to match it because it's got so much more weight to put through the transitional roll.

Now, in a drag race, unless the Miata has been heavilly modified (again an unfair comparison) the Camaro will beat it every time... as long as it's not a V6 Camaro

So it really comes down to personal preference. Do you like getting (comparitively) horrible gas mileage so you can win stoplight drags, or do you like going fast through the twisties?

The bottom line is that you should never choose a car because of what others do to it or think of it. If some ignoramuses want to think of the Miata as a chick car, more power to 'em. The lucky ones among us who own Miatas will be laughing while they watch you fall farther and farther back in the tight turns.

Just like you should never choose not to get a Civic just because some dorks make their Civics look stupid -- doesn't mean you have to, and it doesn't mean it's not a great car. If you like a car, buy the damn thing, no matter what other people think.

BTW, a lot of people think the Camaro is a redneck car and won't buy it because of that, even though they love the way it looks and drives. IMHO they're just as stupid as the people who won't buy a Miata because of it's "chick" image.

Peryn · 09-08-2003, 09:33 PM

i know of a person, all stock internals in the miata. Throw on a turbo, pump the boost. 347 wheel HP. normal low 11sec car, highest time was a high 10sec 1/4...on street tires. Not too expensive to toss on a turbo. Will own you on the corners, assuming you can keep traction, and will kick the ass of most cars on the track. Even if you stuck the money into a camaro or whatever that you put into the turbo miata mod, it most likely wont stand a chance of beating you in the twisties, and probably not on the quarter either.

Chick car...maybe. Are there better cars out there?...probably. Better cars in the price range...again maybe. Its all a matter of taste. *I* certainly wouldn't work to hard to talk somebody out of one however

gigawatz · 09-10-2003, 05:23 AM

IMHO I would never own a Miata. I've driven my brother-in-law's, and it was WAY too small for me and I'm only 5'10". I don't know about handling or power, cause my judgement was skewed by the size. I like my mid-size vehicles. I'm a proud owner of a '96 T-bird and wouldn't change it for the world, except maybe for a 2002-3.

bad30th · 09-10-2003, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peryn
i know of a person, all stock internals in the miata. Throw on a turbo, pump the boost. 347 wheel HP. normal low 11sec car, highest time was a high 10sec 1/4...on street tires. Not too expensive to toss on a turbo.

The rebuild will be expensive...

Do you know what kind of boost levels he was running to hit 347? For your average 4 cyl. turbo to make that kind of power...I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-28# of boost. There isnt a production car made that will handle that kind of boost (for long anyway) without letting go sooner or later. Bet it was fun to drive tho

Just for the sake of argument

I know of a Camaro guy with a 250 shot of nitrous on his internally stock LS1. Stock its about a 300 RWHP car...so with the nitrous, thats, what, around 500+ RWHP? Same deal as the Miata tho...it WILL NOT hold up long.

I'm not trying to turn this into another Camaro vs Miata argument...just pointing out some automotive misnomers

Oh, and to those who say a Camaro cant be made to handle well (not stock) because of its weight or whatever.... come drive mine

Bet I can change your mind.

Very looow center of gravity + lots of suspension and handling goodies + big fat grippy rubber = CORNER CARVER hehe

I know I know a Miata can be modded to out handle me. I know. Just saying...the big fat muscle cars can hold their own

Peryn · 09-10-2003, 09:16 AM

Actually, the miata has an incredibly strong motor straight from the factory. It can run quite a bit of boost and still maintain a relitively long engine life if taken care of well.

And i understand what your saying. The miata isn't the end-all of good handling cars. In fact there are probably several cars i would chose before i got a miata. And i know that you can definately make a heavier car like a camaro handle well. Hell, my moms mini-van handles better than a lot of the sedans out there. It also depends what kind of cornering machine you want. If you want a high speed, track cornering car, i would want a large vette or something meant for high speeds, and huge grippy tires. If you want an autoX car or something for the very tight corners and slaloms, then even with work, the camaro (or whatever "muscle" car or sports car) will have a large inherent disadvantage over a smaller, lighter, probable lower center of gravity car with a shorter wheelbase. It totally depends on what kind of handling and corner carving you want out of your machine.

bad30th · 09-10-2003, 11:39 AM

Werd

I dont doubt that the miata engine can handle boost well from the factory.....thing is, most cars that are factory forced induction run anywhere from 8 to 15# boost....and even those cars have to be internally upgraded to handle almost double the boost. I really dont think a manufacturer like Mazda (not exactly a top Japanese automaker...and by that I mean not on par with say Honda or Toyota) would over-engineer the engines to that extent in just the Miatas...

Stock-ish boost levels i can see.

Maybe I'll just put the 'ole Camaro on a diet

hehe

gmoney · 09-11-2003, 10:34 AM

Tell him that everybody will be joking behind his back. Saying:
"Mi-ata get a BMW" or
" Mi-ata get a Porsche"
there are so many beautiful older convertables at the same price that he has no reason to get a girly car!
Tell him to use the money for a Harley Davidson. Chicks dig harley's

09-06-2003, 09:48 PM	#42 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	ignorance is bliss i guess.... A car thats beggin for boost, can make insane amount of power with stock internals once boosted and still be reliable, and is lighter than almost anything else youll ever drive... Ya i guess is is just for chicks __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-07-2003, 07:32 PM	#46 (permalink)
Booboo Insane	If he's gonna put out that much money.. I would suggest a WRX or a VW golf/gti or something. or jetta even if thats your thing. or like someone else mentioned an rx-7 can get a nice one for mid 20's.. maybe even less. FAST as hell and they are beautiful looking cars. __________________ "Your life is yours to live, go out and live it" - Richard Rahl

09-08-2003, 02:13 PM	#51 (permalink)
jimk Addict Location: Chicago	CHICK CAR. __________________ raw power is a guaranteed o.d. raw power is a laughin' at you & me -iggy

09-08-2003, 05:44 PM	#52 (permalink)
jfranco13 Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I would say screw the new car, you could get a helluva nice, restored 60's Mustang for 20 grand and have money left over. But if he wants something new, I would look at the Z-car or the Infiniti version (G35 I think) for only a couple grand more. I believe they do have a convertible version, or they will soon. __________________ We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.

09-08-2003, 08:22 PM	#53 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I always wonder why people rag on cars they've never even driven. Drive a Miata and you'll appreciate it. Anyone who thinks a camaro is even remotely close to being in the same handling league as a Miata (both stock) either never takes corners or has never driven a Miata. Sure, a muscle car will handle just as well as a Miata in a straight line, but once you hit the switchbacks, the Miata will leave it in the dust. First off, it's not exactly sporting to compare a modified Camaro to a Miata (even though I'll still put money on the miata in the twisties 95% of the time) because if you put enough time and money into a car you can make it do anything you want it to do. If, however, you're judging a car on its merits rather than the merits of the parts you add to it, you have to compare stock vs stock. Second, even if you upgrade the handling of the camaro by a lot, it will still have a larger transitional roll factor than the miata because you will NEVER get the Camaro down to the Miata's weight. The Miata is so light that it's extremely tossable. It'll switch directions very quickly, and the Camaro simply won't be able to match it because it's got so much more weight to put through the transitional roll. Now, in a drag race, unless the Miata has been heavilly modified (again an unfair comparison) the Camaro will beat it every time... as long as it's not a V6 Camaro So it really comes down to personal preference. Do you like getting (comparitively) horrible gas mileage so you can win stoplight drags, or do you like going fast through the twisties? The bottom line is that you should never choose a car because of what others do to it or think of it. If some ignoramuses want to think of the Miata as a chick car, more power to 'em. The lucky ones among us who own Miatas will be laughing while they watch you fall farther and farther back in the tight turns. Just like you should never choose not to get a Civic just because some dorks make their Civics look stupid -- doesn't mean you have to, and it doesn't mean it's not a great car. If you like a car, buy the damn thing, no matter what other people think. BTW, a lot of people think the Camaro is a redneck car and won't buy it because of that, even though they love the way it looks and drives. IMHO they're just as stupid as the people who won't buy a Miata because of it's "chick" image. Last edited by shakran; 09-08-2003 at 08:25 PM..

09-06-2003, 09:40 PM	#41 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	Miata's are chick cars... Buy something with some muscle like a used Camaro or T/A (make sure to get the v8, the v6's are pretty doggy), or even a WRX, though I recently test drove one and wasn't impressed at all... whatever.

09-07-2003, 11:43 AM	#43 (permalink)
castex Psycho Location: france	Peryn: 'i think of a BMW 8-series. i think of an slk500. i think of the Audi tt roadster quattro.' The 'fine driving experience' to which I was referring has to do with balance and chuckability. This car is faithful like very few others. The models you cite are big, heavy cars on fat tyres; and with little sensation of speed. When any of those 3 lets go of the road, it's going to be all at once. The fun of the 'miata' comes in the utterly faithful communication you get from every control. It is balanced in a way the Merc could only dream of; chuckable/driftable like you'd never try in the beemer. The Audi looks okay, but is a golf underneath and consequently it is inert, sullen, clumsy. None of the qualities I mention above are exclusively the realm of racing drivers. The Mazda is fun at 30 mph; for safe kicks at any speed in one of your grunty champions you'll have to be playing with the electric massage seats ps. Do they really sell a 5.0 slk over there?!

09-07-2003, 02:43 PM	#44 (permalink)
never Tilted	you should see what these Miatas can really do on hte track. Spec miatas are pretty nuts. Very light nimble cars, but yes they do sometimes look like they belong to a female driver

09-07-2003, 06:33 PM	#45 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	Yes, apparently they do make very nice track cars, but how often do you need really good handling on the street? Never that I've seen, maybe I live midwest so that changes things, but we really don't have any twisty roads that would be safe or fun to do any high speed cornering on anyway, so it's all about the straightline for me. Plus, what sounds better than the rumble of a huge v8 and enough power to lift the nose of the car up? THATS impressive, not driving a little chick car around and being like "...but it handles well in the corners" Sounds a lot like the excuses that we hear from ricers all the time...

09-08-2003, 09:54 AM	#50 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	Haha, it's all personal preferance, but any of the newer big muscle cars will handle almost as well as a small can if you aren't pushing them to the very limit as you would on a track. Plus, apart from the weight distribution issue, there are many things you can do to a car to make it handle better, and most of it is fairly cheap. New struts, swaybars, rims, and low pro tires will do wonders to a properly set up car no matter what it was like stock, and would probably cost you under 2 grand if you let someone else do the work. So why not get the best of both worlds and something with a little more power to start with... you'll appreciate it unless you are out at the track doing autocross all the time. And as for the turbo sound being cooler... again personal preference, but very few people know what turbo whine or a blowoff valve sounds like, so they won't have any idea. I own both a 350+ small block chevy powered truck, and a turbo Mercedes and actually prefer the truck over the mercedes, so I guess it's all up to what you like. So good luck on the choice, and while I'm sure the miata makes a really nice car, I think there are options that unless you need the ultimate cornering will do great for the price. Even take a look at some of the new Audi's... the TT is a cool little car, might not be the fastest, but its still sweet looking, and the S4 if you can find one is wicked fast, plus they are both AWD, making fun in the snow just that... a little more fun

09-08-2003, 09:33 PM	#54 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	i know of a person, all stock internals in the miata. Throw on a turbo, pump the boost. 347 wheel HP. normal low 11sec car, highest time was a high 10sec 1/4...on street tires. Not too expensive to toss on a turbo. Will own you on the corners, assuming you can keep traction, and will kick the ass of most cars on the track. Even if you stuck the money into a camaro or whatever that you put into the turbo miata mod, it most likely wont stand a chance of beating you in the twisties, and probably not on the quarter either. Chick car...maybe. Are there better cars out there?...probably. Better cars in the price range...again maybe. Its all a matter of taste. I certainly wouldn't work to hard to talk somebody out of one however __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-10-2003, 05:23 AM	#55 (permalink)
gigawatz Crazy Location: Pittsburgh	IMHO I would never own a Miata. I've driven my brother-in-law's, and it was WAY too small for me and I'm only 5'10". I don't know about handling or power, cause my judgement was skewed by the size. I like my mid-size vehicles. I'm a proud owner of a '96 T-bird and wouldn't change it for the world, except maybe for a 2002-3.

09-10-2003, 09:16 AM	#57 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Actually, the miata has an incredibly strong motor straight from the factory. It can run quite a bit of boost and still maintain a relitively long engine life if taken care of well. And i understand what your saying. The miata isn't the end-all of good handling cars. In fact there are probably several cars i would chose before i got a miata. And i know that you can definately make a heavier car like a camaro handle well. Hell, my moms mini-van handles better than a lot of the sedans out there. It also depends what kind of cornering machine you want. If you want a high speed, track cornering car, i would want a large vette or something meant for high speeds, and huge grippy tires. If you want an autoX car or something for the very tight corners and slaloms, then even with work, the camaro (or whatever "muscle" car or sports car) will have a large inherent disadvantage over a smaller, lighter, probable lower center of gravity car with a shorter wheelbase. It totally depends on what kind of handling and corner carving you want out of your machine. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-10-2003, 11:39 AM	#58 (permalink)
bad30th Insane Location: [insert witty play on location field here]	Werd I dont doubt that the miata engine can handle boost well from the factory.....thing is, most cars that are factory forced induction run anywhere from 8 to 15# boost....and even those cars have to be internally upgraded to handle almost double the boost. I really dont think a manufacturer like Mazda (not exactly a top Japanese automaker...and by that I mean not on par with say Honda or Toyota) would over-engineer the engines to that extent in just the Miatas... Stock-ish boost levels i can see. Maybe I'll just put the 'ole Camaro on a diet hehe

09-11-2003, 10:34 AM	#59 (permalink)
gmoney Upright	Tell him that everybody will be joking behind his back. Saying: "Mi-ata get a BMW" or " Mi-ata get a Porsche" there are so many beautiful older convertables at the same price that he has no reason to get a girly car! Tell him to use the money for a Harley Davidson. Chicks dig harley's __________________ Hey, a little pain never hurt anyone.