Lube, oil, filter - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

BentNotTwisted · 08-22-2003, 02:04 PM

Ok, so I'm not much of a car enthusiast. I can do some basic work on the brakes and starter motor, tune up etc. I'm not going near a head gasket or anything similar.
I have three questions. First, I could easily change my own oil, but I have no interest in lubricating joints. I know the full service oil change places do other nice stuff like check fluids, etc. I can do that myself. If I decide to start changing my own oil, how often should I have a professional do it so I know I am getting the proper lubrication in whatever it is they lubricate? Is this lubrication something I can do myself? I have a lube gun that's been sitting in a box in the garage since forever. I just don't know what to do with it.
Second, the owner's manual on my car (98 Honda Accord w/ 65,000 mi.) lists normal driving vs. extreme driving. I live in a small town so my driving is classified as extreme driving, driving less than 20 minutes at a time. The maintenance for extreme driving is listed as 3000 mi. between oil changes. Is that necessary? I want the engine to run well for a good long time and will do whatever it takes to maintain it.
Finally, I read some of the posts her and in the How To corner and wonder if I need to put a magnet on the bottom of my oil pan to catch metal fragments in the oil?
Any help would be appreciated.

Peryn · 08-22-2003, 08:16 PM

First off, i sure hope your not getting many metal fragments in your oil. If you do, your oil filter should catch most of them. If your filter is doing its job and your still getting metal fragment, you got more serious problems than have a "professional" do it.

As for intervals, you can pretty much never change your oil too often. Its not gonna hurt to have the freshest most lubricating oil in your engine all the time. Do it every 3k miles, whether they say it can last 5k between engines or whatever. Proper oil change intervals will go extremely far in lenghtening the life of your engine. If it says 3k, do it at least that often. Make no exceptions and you shouldn't have a problem.

As for some of the "full service" lube jobs, most of that stuff you can/should do on your own anyway. a lot of times, from a dealer it will involve changing tranny fluid, coolant change/wash/refill, air filter, fuel filter. Stuff that you can easily replace on regular intervals. Aside from body and joint lube, there really isn't a whole lot that warrants going to the dealership for lube jobs.

But if you do get someone else to do it, i highly reccommend the dealership. While htey are more expensive, they DO know your car, its common problems, and how to work on it effeciently and effectively.

FastShark85 · 08-22-2003, 09:51 PM

There's no need to change every 3000 miles. That's marketing hype from the oil companies and folks that get paid to do changes.

5000-7000 miles is fine. Hell, my owner's manual says I'm good for 12 months/12000 miles between changes.

Don't assume oil change shops know cars. Dealerships should, but generic shops probably just have basic level skills.

If you're concerned about metal flakes, some auto parts stores sell magnetic collars that you can put on the filter to help it grab those particles.

billege · 08-23-2003, 01:50 AM

I don't think there is such a thing as body lube anymore. That went out sometime in the eighties. There hasn't been a car on the market for a loooong time that needs its chassis lubed.

3k mi between changes is for suckers.
Keep buying your oil like they want you too.
Funny, all the oil companies say 3K. None of the owners manuals do; who built the damn thing and who has oil to sell?
My (spare Dodge 88 caravan) engine runs strong at 260,000 mi. It religiously gets changes at, you guessed it, 5k.

Peryn · 08-23-2003, 09:21 AM

Well, he said his manual reccommended 3k for his "extreme" driving situation. Go buy a case or two of oil when its on sale. Ends up costing like 50cents a quart. At that price, why not do it often? certainly wont hurt the car. and $2.50 in oil, $3.00 for a filter (on sale) and it wont hurt your pocketbook either. Again, you wont hurt your engine by changing oil a lot. MY grandpa was a grease monkey for hist whole life, so he religiously changes oil every 3k whether he needs it or not, and alway picks up the oil sales. We got at least 20cases of oil in the back at all times. Different brands, different types. With all that for cheap, makes no sense not to change your oil. But go by your manual. Make it at least that often, never less often.

Off topic, how did you make a caravan do that? We had a '90 Grand Caravan we just got rid of at 200k miles. Engine was still going strong, but that car had to be the biggest Peice of Crap i've ever seen. By the time got rid of it we had been in the shop at least 10 times to get major tranny repairs. We were on our 6th physically new transmission. Come to think of it, they didn't put that tranny in till 89 or 90, but the rest of the car kept falling apart.

Sion · 08-23-2003, 12:05 PM

interval: EVERY 3 months or 3000 miles. end of story. Ive seen the numbers (statistical studies done by various manufacturers (of vehicles, oil, filters, etc)) and the 3000 mile interval produces the longest lasting engines by a HUGE margin. IIRC, an engine that has regular 3k oil service (INCLUDING filter every time) lasts on average 20-30% longer than one that has had 5k service.

chassis/body lube: as stated above, there are almost no cars still using body lubrication. and in fact, very few of them still have oe lube points for suspension and steering parts. so, unless you have had any ball joints or tie rod ends replaced, there is no need to worry about lubing these parts. a 98 Accord, being front wheel drive, would only have lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends to lube, and Im sure the OE parts do not have grease fittings.

should you ever have one of these parts replaced, it is likely that the replacement part (I recommend Moog brand steering and suspension parts) WILL have a grease fitting. It should be greased upon installation and once a year thereafter.

no real need to worry about metal fragments in the oil. sure, you can put a magnet in the oil pan (if you want to go to the hassle of taking off the pan to do so) but unless you have had major engine trouble, chances are that there are no fragments to worry about. besides, the average oil filter will catch 99% of all normal wear fragments (which are nearly microscopic in size).

etla · 08-23-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billege
I don't think there is such a thing as body lube anymore. That went out sometime in the eighties. There hasn't been a car on the market for a loooong time that needs its chassis lubed.

Thoughnot technically a car my 95 Dakota 4X4 has over a dozen zerks that need lubing 4 on driveshafts, 6 on tie rods et.al. and 4 on ball joints. Greasable stuff is much better especially for heavy use.
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Sion · 08-24-2003, 09:39 AM

note: the tem "body" lube usually refers to such things as door, trunk and hood hinges, which at one time (MANY moons ago) required lubrication. chassis lube, on the other hand, usually refers to steering and suspension parts (balls joints and tie rod ends).

as billege said, there are probably no cars made anymore that require body lube. many trucks (and other rwd vehicles) still use chassis lubrication however.

ssander9 · 08-24-2003, 02:08 PM

I have always changed my own oil at 3000 miles or less. I sold a 1976 Chevy PU with original engine and transmission with 280,000 miles on it a couple of years ago. Ran perfect, no smoke and didn't burn oil. I used this truck for hauling my race car all around the southern US and daily city driving (454 engine & turbo 400 trans). I now have a 95 Chevy with 100,238 miles on it. Runs perfect, only thing ever replaced was the alternator. Change oil every 3000 miles. My old 85 Cavalier had 188,012 miles on it when I sold it, never a problem out of that car...every 3000 miles.
My race car, Vega Panelwagon, 406 ci smallblock. Change oil every other race, new rings and bearings every year..never mind, that one doesn't count.
I worked for a Chevy dealership for ten years, since around 1978 when all the emmisions requirements came out the thermostat temps were bumped up from around 160-180 degree operating temp to 195. Most cars now have electric fans that do not even come on unless the engine reaches between 200-220 degrees. This increase in engine temp makes for a much cleaner burning engine, but also makes for a much hotter running engine meaning oils biggest foe, heat, is even more at work than before. Especially if you have an automatic transmission, turbo charger or both. I'd rather be safe than sorry...have you priced and engine recently, you could do a hell of alot of oil changes for that price.
just my 2 cents...BTW this only applies to natural engine oil, synthetics last much longer before breaking down.

rs8001 · 08-24-2003, 07:25 PM

Sion, is right on about the chassis lube. Just leave the grease gun in the drawer. The Honda Accord has no steering, suspension, or driveline joints that need to be lubed. Nothing at all. The only exception would be if aftermarket joints have been installed.

BTW, altough the japanese brands seemed to be the first to utilize components that lacked grease fittings most new cars and more and more light duty trucks don't have any grease fittings now days.

bad30th · 08-27-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FastShark85
There's no need to change every 3000 miles. That's marketing hype from the oil companies and folks that get paid to do changes.

5000-7000 miles is fine. Hell, my owner's manual says I'm good for 12 months/12000 miles between changes.

Don't assume oil change shops know cars. Dealerships should, but generic shops probably just have basic level skills.

You coulnt be more wrong.

I feel very sorry for that pretty Porsche that you are neglecting.

And yes, basic employees at generic shops have basic skill levels, but most of Management has quite a bit of automotive experience/knowledge.

Quote:

Originally posted by Peryn
As for intervals, you can pretty much never change your oil too often. Its not gonna hurt to have the freshest most lubricating oil in your engine all the time. Do it every 3k miles, whether they say it can last 5k between engines or whatever. Proper oil change intervals will go extremely far in lenghtening the life of your engine. If it says 3k, do it at least that often. Make no exceptions and you shouldn't have a problem.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sion
interval: EVERY 3 months or 3000 miles. end of story. Ive seen the numbers (statistical studies done by various manufacturers (of vehicles, oil, filters, etc)) and the 3000 mile interval produces the longest lasting engines by a HUGE margin. IIRC, an engine that has regular 3k oil service (INCLUDING filter every time) lasts on average 20-30% longer than one that has had 5k service.

Couldnt have said it better myself guys.

If not anything else, changing your oil every 3k miles is CHEAP insurance.

Like ssander9 said...rather be safe than sorry....VERY sorry.

BentNotTwisted · 08-27-2003, 01:52 PM

Thanks for all the great comments. Change the oil and filter every 3000 miles and don't worry about the grease points. What have I been paying the quickie lube places so much money for?
One last question, do I need to warm up the engine before changing the oil? If I am patient would it be just as effective to drain the oil when the engine is cold?
Thanks again,
Bent

bad30th · 08-27-2003, 02:00 PM

Pull the plug, then go inside and have a beer or two while it drains, hot or cold.

And if you dont mind wasting a quart or so, I recommend dumping at least a quart into the oil fill while the plug is out...will help to get some more of the gunk out.

The irony about quick oil change shops is they have great prices (as compared to a dealership anyway) on pretty much all their services EXCEPT the basic oil change...that IS a rip-off lol

impreza56 · 08-30-2003, 01:47 AM

i always warm up the car before changing the oil. If nothing else it lowers the viscosity so it'll drain out faster. I guess the only downside as that you gotta put up with a hot engine when you're putting the filter in...

ssander9 · 08-30-2003, 02:34 PM

It drains faster when hot, much safer for a 'do it yourselfer' to take his time, change it cold and not get burned. Just give it about 15-20 minutes to drain when cold

Hard8s · 08-30-2003, 07:01 PM

The way I do it is to run up to the store for the oil, filter, beer, etc. When I come back I give it about 5-10 mins to cool slightly. Pull the plug letting the warm (not hot) oil into the pan. Spend the next 5 mins or so checking other levels, check on the oil. Go have a beer. Come back put the plug in, move the drain pan under the filter, and pull the filter out. Clean up surface with a rag, wipe a little clean oil on the new filters gasket, and install the filter. Hand tight and then about 1/2 turn more. Fill with oil, start engine and check for leaks. Go inside and have another beer.

Pretty easy, and I do it every 5000 miles. Oil and filter are good up to 7000-8000 miles easy. Read way to many studies which state oil starts to break down around 10,000 miles. Besides much easier to read on the Odometer.

shakran · 08-30-2003, 08:04 PM

I'll put in another word for the 3000 mile oil change. Especially on Hondas (tighter clearances than other engine makes), you need clean oil at all times. Assuming $30 oil changes and 20,000 miles a year, you save all of $80 a year by getting it changed every 5,000 instead of 3,000 miles. It's sheer stupidity to risk wrecking a $25,000 or more car for 80 bucks.

With the Hondas, if you get 'em changed every 3,000 religiously (new filter too, don't cheap out), they'll run damn near forever. 300,000 is not uncommon mileage for older hondas that have been properly cared for. Not only will they still run at 300,000, but they'll still run as well as they did when they were new.

08-22-2003, 02:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	Lube, oil, filter Ok, so I'm not much of a car enthusiast. I can do some basic work on the brakes and starter motor, tune up etc. I'm not going near a head gasket or anything similar. I have three questions. First, I could easily change my own oil, but I have no interest in lubricating joints. I know the full service oil change places do other nice stuff like check fluids, etc. I can do that myself. If I decide to start changing my own oil, how often should I have a professional do it so I know I am getting the proper lubrication in whatever it is they lubricate? Is this lubrication something I can do myself? I have a lube gun that's been sitting in a box in the garage since forever. I just don't know what to do with it. Second, the owner's manual on my car (98 Honda Accord w/ 65,000 mi.) lists normal driving vs. extreme driving. I live in a small town so my driving is classified as extreme driving, driving less than 20 minutes at a time. The maintenance for extreme driving is listed as 3000 mi. between oil changes. Is that necessary? I want the engine to run well for a good long time and will do whatever it takes to maintain it. Finally, I read some of the posts her and in the How To corner and wonder if I need to put a magnet on the bottom of my oil pan to catch metal fragments in the oil? Any help would be appreciated. __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

08-22-2003, 08:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	First off, i sure hope your not getting many metal fragments in your oil. If you do, your oil filter should catch most of them. If your filter is doing its job and your still getting metal fragment, you got more serious problems than have a "professional" do it. As for intervals, you can pretty much never change your oil too often. Its not gonna hurt to have the freshest most lubricating oil in your engine all the time. Do it every 3k miles, whether they say it can last 5k between engines or whatever. Proper oil change intervals will go extremely far in lenghtening the life of your engine. If it says 3k, do it at least that often. Make no exceptions and you shouldn't have a problem. As for some of the "full service" lube jobs, most of that stuff you can/should do on your own anyway. a lot of times, from a dealer it will involve changing tranny fluid, coolant change/wash/refill, air filter, fuel filter. Stuff that you can easily replace on regular intervals. Aside from body and joint lube, there really isn't a whole lot that warrants going to the dealership for lube jobs. But if you do get someone else to do it, i highly reccommend the dealership. While htey are more expensive, they DO know your car, its common problems, and how to work on it effeciently and effectively. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

08-23-2003, 01:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I don't think there is such a thing as body lube anymore. That went out sometime in the eighties. There hasn't been a car on the market for a loooong time that needs its chassis lubed. 3k mi between changes is for suckers. Keep buying your oil like they want you too. Funny, all the oil companies say 3K. None of the owners manuals do; who built the damn thing and who has oil to sell? My (spare Dodge 88 caravan) engine runs strong at 260,000 mi. It religiously gets changes at, you guessed it, 5k. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

08-23-2003, 09:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Well, he said his manual reccommended 3k for his "extreme" driving situation. Go buy a case or two of oil when its on sale. Ends up costing like 50cents a quart. At that price, why not do it often? certainly wont hurt the car. and $2.50 in oil, $3.00 for a filter (on sale) and it wont hurt your pocketbook either. Again, you wont hurt your engine by changing oil a lot. MY grandpa was a grease monkey for hist whole life, so he religiously changes oil every 3k whether he needs it or not, and alway picks up the oil sales. We got at least 20cases of oil in the back at all times. Different brands, different types. With all that for cheap, makes no sense not to change your oil. But go by your manual. Make it at least that often, never less often. Off topic, how did you make a caravan do that? We had a '90 Grand Caravan we just got rid of at 200k miles. Engine was still going strong, but that car had to be the biggest Peice of Crap i've ever seen. By the time got rid of it we had been in the shop at least 10 times to get major tranny repairs. We were on our 6th physically new transmission. Come to think of it, they didn't put that tranny in till 89 or 90, but the rest of the car kept falling apart. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

08-23-2003, 12:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	interval: EVERY 3 months or 3000 miles. end of story. Ive seen the numbers (statistical studies done by various manufacturers (of vehicles, oil, filters, etc)) and the 3000 mile interval produces the longest lasting engines by a HUGE margin. IIRC, an engine that has regular 3k oil service (INCLUDING filter every time) lasts on average 20-30% longer than one that has had 5k service. chassis/body lube: as stated above, there are almost no cars still using body lubrication. and in fact, very few of them still have oe lube points for suspension and steering parts. so, unless you have had any ball joints or tie rod ends replaced, there is no need to worry about lubing these parts. a 98 Accord, being front wheel drive, would only have lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends to lube, and Im sure the OE parts do not have grease fittings. should you ever have one of these parts replaced, it is likely that the replacement part (I recommend Moog brand steering and suspension parts) WILL have a grease fitting. It should be greased upon installation and once a year thereafter. no real need to worry about metal fragments in the oil. sure, you can put a magnet in the oil pan (if you want to go to the hassle of taking off the pan to do so) but unless you have had major engine trouble, chances are that there are no fragments to worry about. besides, the average oil filter will catch 99% of all normal wear fragments (which are nearly microscopic in size). __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

08-22-2003, 09:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
FastShark85 Psycho Location: In the garage, under the car.	There's no need to change every 3000 miles. That's marketing hype from the oil companies and folks that get paid to do changes. 5000-7000 miles is fine. Hell, my owner's manual says I'm good for 12 months/12000 miles between changes. Don't assume oil change shops know cars. Dealerships should, but generic shops probably just have basic level skills. If you're concerned about metal flakes, some auto parts stores sell magnetic collars that you can put on the filter to help it grab those particles.

08-24-2003, 09:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	note: the tem "body" lube usually refers to such things as door, trunk and hood hinges, which at one time (MANY moons ago) required lubrication. chassis lube, on the other hand, usually refers to steering and suspension parts (balls joints and tie rod ends). as billege said, there are probably no cars made anymore that require body lube. many trucks (and other rwd vehicles) still use chassis lubrication however. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

08-24-2003, 02:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
ssander9 Amplitude Modulator Location: US	I have always changed my own oil at 3000 miles or less. I sold a 1976 Chevy PU with original engine and transmission with 280,000 miles on it a couple of years ago. Ran perfect, no smoke and didn't burn oil. I used this truck for hauling my race car all around the southern US and daily city driving (454 engine & turbo 400 trans). I now have a 95 Chevy with 100,238 miles on it. Runs perfect, only thing ever replaced was the alternator. Change oil every 3000 miles. My old 85 Cavalier had 188,012 miles on it when I sold it, never a problem out of that car...every 3000 miles. My race car, Vega Panelwagon, 406 ci smallblock. Change oil every other race, new rings and bearings every year..never mind, that one doesn't count. I worked for a Chevy dealership for ten years, since around 1978 when all the emmisions requirements came out the thermostat temps were bumped up from around 160-180 degree operating temp to 195. Most cars now have electric fans that do not even come on unless the engine reaches between 200-220 degrees. This increase in engine temp makes for a much cleaner burning engine, but also makes for a much hotter running engine meaning oils biggest foe, heat, is even more at work than before. Especially if you have an automatic transmission, turbo charger or both. I'd rather be safe than sorry...have you priced and engine recently, you could do a hell of alot of oil changes for that price. just my 2 cents...BTW this only applies to natural engine oil, synthetics last much longer before breaking down. __________________ I never said you had to.

08-24-2003, 07:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
rs8001 Crazy Location: Indiana	Sion, is right on about the chassis lube. Just leave the grease gun in the drawer. The Honda Accord has no steering, suspension, or driveline joints that need to be lubed. Nothing at all. The only exception would be if aftermarket joints have been installed. BTW, altough the japanese brands seemed to be the first to utilize components that lacked grease fittings most new cars and more and more light duty trucks don't have any grease fittings now days.

08-27-2003, 01:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	Thanks for all the great comments. Change the oil and filter every 3000 miles and don't worry about the grease points. What have I been paying the quickie lube places so much money for? One last question, do I need to warm up the engine before changing the oil? If I am patient would it be just as effective to drain the oil when the engine is cold? Thanks again, Bent __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

08-27-2003, 02:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
bad30th Insane Location: [insert witty play on location field here]	Pull the plug, then go inside and have a beer or two while it drains, hot or cold. And if you dont mind wasting a quart or so, I recommend dumping at least a quart into the oil fill while the plug is out...will help to get some more of the gunk out. The irony about quick oil change shops is they have great prices (as compared to a dealership anyway) on pretty much all their services EXCEPT the basic oil change...that IS a rip-off lol Last edited by bad30th; 08-27-2003 at 02:03 PM..

08-30-2003, 01:47 AM	#14 (permalink)
impreza56 Upright	i always warm up the car before changing the oil. If nothing else it lowers the viscosity so it'll drain out faster. I guess the only downside as that you gotta put up with a hot engine when you're putting the filter in...

08-30-2003, 02:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
ssander9 Amplitude Modulator Location: US	It drains faster when hot, much safer for a 'do it yourselfer' to take his time, change it cold and not get burned. Just give it about 15-20 minutes to drain when cold __________________ I never said you had to.

08-30-2003, 07:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
Hard8s Addict Location: Wherever I am!	The way I do it is to run up to the store for the oil, filter, beer, etc. When I come back I give it about 5-10 mins to cool slightly. Pull the plug letting the warm (not hot) oil into the pan. Spend the next 5 mins or so checking other levels, check on the oil. Go have a beer. Come back put the plug in, move the drain pan under the filter, and pull the filter out. Clean up surface with a rag, wipe a little clean oil on the new filters gasket, and install the filter. Hand tight and then about 1/2 turn more. Fill with oil, start engine and check for leaks. Go inside and have another beer. Pretty easy, and I do it every 5000 miles. Oil and filter are good up to 7000-8000 miles easy. Read way to many studies which state oil starts to break down around 10,000 miles. Besides much easier to read on the Odometer. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, then wipe this smile off my face!

08-30-2003, 08:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I'll put in another word for the 3000 mile oil change. Especially on Hondas (tighter clearances than other engine makes), you need clean oil at all times. Assuming $30 oil changes and 20,000 miles a year, you save all of $80 a year by getting it changed every 5,000 instead of 3,000 miles. It's sheer stupidity to risk wrecking a $25,000 or more car for 80 bucks. With the Hondas, if you get 'em changed every 3,000 religiously (new filter too, don't cheap out), they'll run damn near forever. 300,000 is not uncommon mileage for older hondas that have been properly cared for. Not only will they still run at 300,000, but they'll still run as well as they did when they were new.