Hot engine starting problem - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

merkerguitars · 08-17-2003, 05:31 PM

Ok here's how it goes
I have a 1984 Ford Mustang GT that is 5.0 v8 H.O with a carburator.....I bought the car without and intake and carb so I threw in a edelbrock intake and performer carb and the car sat for 5 years. Well I got it running just fine..starts easily...running smoothly and purrs like a kitten. The problem I am having is that when I drive it for a mile it will just kill for no apparent reason and not start...I crank it and it revs up and dies. Here is a list of parts I have replaced, Cap, Rotor, Ignition Module Box, Cleaned up the connector for the voltage regulator and I know I don't have any stray wires. After letting it cool down it wil start perfectly...any ideas what could be causing it? I think the alternator is shot from sitting too long...cause when I drive the car it just drains the battery.

cliv · 08-17-2003, 06:32 PM

I'm no expert, but I had fuel pump vapor lock with similar symptoms. Pump got hot, heated the area around it (hoses, filter) and all it had was fuel vapor to pump. I'm sorry but it was a long time ago and I was young, so all I can provide to you is a possible place to start looking.

shakran · 08-17-2003, 07:08 PM

it should not get hot enough for vapor lock after only a mile. I'd look at that battery situation further. Hot batteries (they get hot by flowing current) do not provide as much power as cold batteries. Could be when the battery gets hot its output drops below that required for good spark.

DEI37 · 08-17-2003, 07:43 PM

I don't agree with the battery thing. If voltage dropped enough for good spark after just a mile, sitting for an hour or so isn't going to help. And he says it starts right up. I don't think the battery is the issue. I'd look in the exhaust, or fuel system. Possible clogged fuel filter, or after sitting for five years, critters in the exhaust.

EDIT: Get a second person to watch, and the next time it does this, have them crank it over, and watch the fuel pattern in the carb. If it sprays well, pull a plug, and look for spark. If not spraying well, you've found the problem. If it does spray well, and doesn't have good spark, you've found a problem. If it does spray well, has a good spark, you're probably looking at replacing the exhaust.

merkerguitars · 08-17-2003, 09:33 PM

I talked to some people that were into fords and they said it could be what is called a heat soak problem....Where the engine gets warm and the distributor and/or coil starts to mess up. I had a 1/4 tank of gas when I originally got the car and I filled up half way with some fresh stuff and I put a new fuel filter in....Could be plugged though but doesn't seem like it from it starting whenever its cold.

Ashton · 08-18-2003, 01:23 AM

This might not be the problem but when the Catalytic Converter goes bad it will plug up when hot, killing the engine..... as it cools the pellets inside recrystalize and the exhaust can flow through again, it will start and run fine until it gets hot and plugs up again.....

Sion · 08-18-2003, 02:01 AM

mg, replace the ignition coil and have the ignition module checked. take the module to a parts store and have them test it. be sure to ask them to run the test about 8 or 10 times, so that it gets warm (if not actually hot). if it passes every test, it should be ok. or you could drive the car to the parts store and let it run in the parking lot until it dies. then immediately remove the module and coil and have them tested while hot. I can almost guarantee that your coil is bad, and since its a relatively cheap item, Id go ahead and replace it.

"Hot batteries (they get hot by flowing current) do not provide as much power as cold batteries. Could be when the battery gets hot its output drops below that required for good spark."

first of all, the battery does NOT supply current for ignition spark when the engine is running. the battery has one job, and one job only: to supply current to get the engine running. that is all that it does. after the engine starts, the ALTERNATOR provides ALL electrical current, and the battery is merely a passenger from then on. In fact, you can remove a battery from a running vehicle and it will continue running. (NOTE: this is NOT a good idea to do this on todays computer controlled vehicles. It can theoretically cause a voltage spike that can fry some engine control components (like the computer, for ex) which can be expensive to replace.) This technique used to be the backyard mechanics easiest way to test for a bad/weak alternator. Disconnect the positive cable from the battery and if the car dies immediately, you would then know the alternator wasnt working right or at all.

In any case, while a bad/weak battery can obviously prevent a vehicle from starting, it cannot cause the engine to die.

secondly, a hot battery has less power than a cold one??????? that must be why cars start SOOOO much easier in the winter, huh? dont believe me? look at a battery (any battery) and you will see that it carries TWO power ratings: cranking amps and COLD cranking amps. cranking amps (at 32 degrees F) are always higher than cold cranking amps (at 0 degrees F).

oh, and batteries do not get hot from flowing current. they can and often do get hot while recieving current (during charging) but not from supplying current.

Sion · 08-18-2003, 02:08 AM

Ashton, I dont know what kind of catalytic converters you have, but in my 5 years in the parts business, I have NEVER seen one that had pellets in it. what is inside a converter is a honeycomb shaped ceramic-like "filter". over time, the heat from the exhaust causes this to break down (from front to back) and the honeycomb begins to plug up from the debris. eventually it will get so bad as to suffocate the engine by not allowing the enough exhaust to flow. so while its true that a cat can plug up and kill the engine, I've never heard of one "unplugging" itself and allowing the car to start after its cooled down. just doesnt happen. once its plugged enough to kill a running engine, its time to replace it, regardless of the temperature.

merkerguitars · 08-18-2003, 06:26 AM

Thanks you guys....I'm picking up a coil from a friend today...it's an OEM one just like I have now but it's new...First I'll try that and hopefully that works. The coil I have in their is dented and don't look like it had a good life. Plus with the coil sitting under the hood of the car for 5 years sitting probably didn't help it the greatest either. (Especially with how much the Wisconsin weather varies.) With the catalytic convertor thing....eventually I'm gonna get rid of it and replace my exhaust with headers into two glasspacks straight out the back. Or for now I just might punch it out. I already replaced the ignition module.

j8ear · 08-18-2003, 09:19 AM

Wondering how the coil replacement went?

I have also seen a starter go bad after warm driving. Actually the electric solenoid on top of the starter.

Merk...After five years of sitting, it's a pretty good bet that alot of places where dissimilar metals met....i.e. battery connection, grounding straps, ground leads, alternator wiring, etc...is corroded. It'd be a good idea to take it apart, wash it down and get corrosion off of it (baking soda, water, old toothbrush), put it back to together and smear it with di-electric grease.

I think I might have even mentioned the ig coil and module to you in a previous post.

-bear

Scorps · 08-18-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by merkerguitars
Ok here's how it goes
I have a 1984 Ford Mustang GT that is 5.0 v8 H.O with a carburator.....I bought the car without and intake and carb so I threw in a edelbrock intake and performer carb and the car sat for 5 years. Well I got it running just fine..starts easily...running smoothly and purrs like a kitten. The problem I am having is that when I drive it for a mile it will just kill for no apparent reason and not start...I crank it and it revs up and dies. Here is a list of parts I have replaced, Cap, Rotor, Ignition Module Box, Cleaned up the connector for the voltage regulator and I know I don't have any stray wires. After letting it cool down it wil start perfectly...any ideas what could be causing it? I think the alternator is shot from sitting too long...cause when I drive the car it just drains the battery.

maybe be Alternator or battery.

but hell im not a FORD guy.

Scorps · 08-18-2003, 01:50 PM

The only problem I have ever had in my old chevy caprice classic is, my dad put the choke spring back in backwards so when you went to start it when hot it wouldn't...LOL

merkerguitars · 08-18-2003, 01:56 PM

I'm not a ford guy either....But I got the car cheap and will eventually give it to my dad.

Sion · 08-18-2003, 04:25 PM

mg, just to be on the safe side, while you are at the parts store, have them test the battery and alternator. this can be done with both of them still in the car. they can also test the starter this way too.

(assuming of course that its a decent parts store with a rollout tester, which most have these days.)

merkerguitars · 08-18-2003, 06:45 PM

Well I think I found the problem......of all fucking things I think its my ignition switch. I tried starting the car this morning and it started and ran for about a second and then killed. But if I held the switch to almost the "start" position. It kept on running. The switch has been falling apart and didn't work properly when I got the car. I'm getting a new one and thank god it only costs $10.

DEI37 · 08-19-2003, 02:34 PM

That would make some sense. Replace it...if it works, cheap fix...if not, you're not out any money.

merkerguitars · 08-19-2003, 08:42 PM

I definately had to replace it...it cost me a total of $12. Now the car starts great and stays running. I drove it about two miles today with no problems....Thanks for all you guyz help!

08-17-2003, 05:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Hot engine starting problem Ok here's how it goes I have a 1984 Ford Mustang GT that is 5.0 v8 H.O with a carburator.....I bought the car without and intake and carb so I threw in a edelbrock intake and performer carb and the car sat for 5 years. Well I got it running just fine..starts easily...running smoothly and purrs like a kitten. The problem I am having is that when I drive it for a mile it will just kill for no apparent reason and not start...I crank it and it revs up and dies. Here is a list of parts I have replaced, Cap, Rotor, Ignition Module Box, Cleaned up the connector for the voltage regulator and I know I don't have any stray wires. After letting it cool down it wil start perfectly...any ideas what could be causing it? I think the alternator is shot from sitting too long...cause when I drive the car it just drains the battery. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

08-17-2003, 07:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I don't agree with the battery thing. If voltage dropped enough for good spark after just a mile, sitting for an hour or so isn't going to help. And he says it starts right up. I don't think the battery is the issue. I'd look in the exhaust, or fuel system. Possible clogged fuel filter, or after sitting for five years, critters in the exhaust. EDIT: Get a second person to watch, and the next time it does this, have them crank it over, and watch the fuel pattern in the carb. If it sprays well, pull a plug, and look for spark. If not spraying well, you've found the problem. If it does spray well, and doesn't have good spark, you've found a problem. If it does spray well, has a good spark, you're probably looking at replacing the exhaust. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Last edited by DEI37; 08-17-2003 at 07:48 PM..

08-17-2003, 09:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	I talked to some people that were into fords and they said it could be what is called a heat soak problem....Where the engine gets warm and the distributor and/or coil starts to mess up. I had a 1/4 tank of gas when I originally got the car and I filled up half way with some fresh stuff and I put a new fuel filter in....Could be plugged though but doesn't seem like it from it starting whenever its cold. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

08-18-2003, 02:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	mg, replace the ignition coil and have the ignition module checked. take the module to a parts store and have them test it. be sure to ask them to run the test about 8 or 10 times, so that it gets warm (if not actually hot). if it passes every test, it should be ok. or you could drive the car to the parts store and let it run in the parking lot until it dies. then immediately remove the module and coil and have them tested while hot. I can almost guarantee that your coil is bad, and since its a relatively cheap item, Id go ahead and replace it. "Hot batteries (they get hot by flowing current) do not provide as much power as cold batteries. Could be when the battery gets hot its output drops below that required for good spark." first of all, the battery does NOT supply current for ignition spark when the engine is running. the battery has one job, and one job only: to supply current to get the engine running. that is all that it does. after the engine starts, the ALTERNATOR provides ALL electrical current, and the battery is merely a passenger from then on. In fact, you can remove a battery from a running vehicle and it will continue running. (NOTE: this is NOT a good idea to do this on todays computer controlled vehicles. It can theoretically cause a voltage spike that can fry some engine control components (like the computer, for ex) which can be expensive to replace.) This technique used to be the backyard mechanics easiest way to test for a bad/weak alternator. Disconnect the positive cable from the battery and if the car dies immediately, you would then know the alternator wasnt working right or at all. In any case, while a bad/weak battery can obviously prevent a vehicle from starting, it cannot cause the engine to die. secondly, a hot battery has less power than a cold one??????? that must be why cars start SOOOO much easier in the winter, huh? dont believe me? look at a battery (any battery) and you will see that it carries TWO power ratings: cranking amps and COLD cranking amps. cranking amps (at 32 degrees F) are always higher than cold cranking amps (at 0 degrees F). oh, and batteries do not get hot from flowing current. they can and often do get hot while recieving current (during charging) but not from supplying current. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

08-18-2003, 02:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	Ashton, I dont know what kind of catalytic converters you have, but in my 5 years in the parts business, I have NEVER seen one that had pellets in it. what is inside a converter is a honeycomb shaped ceramic-like "filter". over time, the heat from the exhaust causes this to break down (from front to back) and the honeycomb begins to plug up from the debris. eventually it will get so bad as to suffocate the engine by not allowing the enough exhaust to flow. so while its true that a cat can plug up and kill the engine, I've never heard of one "unplugging" itself and allowing the car to start after its cooled down. just doesnt happen. once its plugged enough to kill a running engine, its time to replace it, regardless of the temperature. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

08-17-2003, 06:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
cliv Insane Location: New Jersey, USA	I'm no expert, but I had fuel pump vapor lock with similar symptoms. Pump got hot, heated the area around it (hoses, filter) and all it had was fuel vapor to pump. I'm sorry but it was a long time ago and I was young, so all I can provide to you is a possible place to start looking.

08-17-2003, 07:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	it should not get hot enough for vapor lock after only a mile. I'd look at that battery situation further. Hot batteries (they get hot by flowing current) do not provide as much power as cold batteries. Could be when the battery gets hot its output drops below that required for good spark.

08-18-2003, 01:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	This might not be the problem but when the Catalytic Converter goes bad it will plug up when hot, killing the engine..... as it cools the pellets inside recrystalize and the exhaust can flow through again, it will start and run fine until it gets hot and plugs up again.....

08-18-2003, 06:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Thanks you guys....I'm picking up a coil from a friend today...it's an OEM one just like I have now but it's new...First I'll try that and hopefully that works. The coil I have in their is dented and don't look like it had a good life. Plus with the coil sitting under the hood of the car for 5 years sitting probably didn't help it the greatest either. (Especially with how much the Wisconsin weather varies.) With the catalytic convertor thing....eventually I'm gonna get rid of it and replace my exhaust with headers into two glasspacks straight out the back. Or for now I just might punch it out. I already replaced the ignition module. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

08-18-2003, 09:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Wondering how the coil replacement went? I have also seen a starter go bad after warm driving. Actually the electric solenoid on top of the starter. Merk...After five years of sitting, it's a pretty good bet that alot of places where dissimilar metals met....i.e. battery connection, grounding straps, ground leads, alternator wiring, etc...is corroded. It'd be a good idea to take it apart, wash it down and get corrosion off of it (baking soda, water, old toothbrush), put it back to together and smear it with di-electric grease. I think I might have even mentioned the ig coil and module to you in a previous post. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

08-18-2003, 01:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	The only problem I have ever had in my old chevy caprice classic is, my dad put the choke spring back in backwards so when you went to start it when hot it wouldn't...LOL __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

08-18-2003, 01:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	I'm not a ford guy either....But I got the car cheap and will eventually give it to my dad. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

08-18-2003, 04:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	mg, just to be on the safe side, while you are at the parts store, have them test the battery and alternator. this can be done with both of them still in the car. they can also test the starter this way too. (assuming of course that its a decent parts store with a rollout tester, which most have these days.) __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

08-18-2003, 06:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Well I think I found the problem......of all fucking things I think its my ignition switch. I tried starting the car this morning and it started and ran for about a second and then killed. But if I held the switch to almost the "start" position. It kept on running. The switch has been falling apart and didn't work properly when I got the car. I'm getting a new one and thank god it only costs $10. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

08-19-2003, 02:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	That would make some sense. Replace it...if it works, cheap fix...if not, you're not out any money. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-19-2003, 08:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	I definately had to replace it...it cost me a total of $12. Now the car starts great and stays running. I drove it about two miles today with no problems....Thanks for all you guyz help! __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985