G_Whiz

Just bought one today. I expect to take delivery by the end of the week.

Anyone got experience with these? I've researched the details, taken the test drive, etc. I love what I've heard and seen, but has anyone got some actual experience?

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merkerguitars

Well all I have heard was good reviews...Honda makes nice everything..from cycles to lawnmowers....I saw some people do a test drive on it on car and driver tv and i was suprised they did do a burnout with it. I figure for the gas mileage it gets it well worth it...Hell I would buy one if I had the money for driving to school and back....save me alot on gas money.

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G_Whiz

Yeah, I saw all the reviews too. I got to take it on a really extensive test drive, including a chance to accelerate up to freeway speeds. It's surprisingly powerful. I'm really looking forward to getting one.

I've been driving 3/4 ton pickup that gets about 12 miles per gallon. The savings in gas alone is going to be about $75 per month.

When I figure that the monthly payments will be $75 less than my truck, plus the gas savings, plus the federal tax credit for a low-emission vehicle, this car is definitely going to be worth getting.

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Grondar

Sounds interesting...

Could you post up a few pics? I don't think I have heard/seen anything about this yet.

Thanks.

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phatman

I got a good tech overview of one when I toured the Honda Master Service center in Jersey earlier this year. The engineer I talked to owned one and said it was surprisingly powerful and was all around good. However he also told me where he lives there is no Honda dealership nearby to do the service on it if there is a problem with the electrical portion. Not that it is too much of a problem, but just in case.

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G_Whiz

Grondar - Not much to post. It just looks like a Honda Civic with some minor changes (placement of the antenna, mini-spoiler on the back).

phatman - That shouldn't be a problem here. The dealership is less than 5 miles from my house, plus the service plan I'm buying has unlimited towing. I do have to say that I was impressed with the power.

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Grondar

How much does one of these cost?

Also, do you have to charge the battery up?

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Vortex22

Civic Hybrid

No, you don't have to charge the battery... It charges itself when the car is running. It works just like any other car.

phatman

If I remember correctly the flywheel is actually the generator for the batteries, which is a pretty cool way to do it. It also serves as the starter I think.

This car is what I consider the pinnacle of Honda's: Uber amazing gas mileage combined with a good powerband.

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G_Whiz

Just got the call that I'm getting the car today.

Vortex22 and phatman are both basically correct. It has a 93hp engine that assists the electric motors and provides some charge. The cool thing is that the brakes provide some charge too. You never plug it in, it has a special battery system that takes up a small amount of space under the rear seat.

BTW, the battery originally came with an 8 year 80K mile warranty. I'm told that the new ones have a 10 year, 150K warranty.

Grondar, I almost forgot to mention, in Calif. it goes for around $21K depending on the stuff you add. The one I'm getting comes pretty well equiped.

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Averett

*bump*

Nearly a year after this was posted, but I figured why bother making a new thread...

Anyway, I'm considering upgrading from my 2001 Civic to the Hybrid. I know that G_Whiz doesn't check the board very often at the moment, so I'll PM him for info, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this car.

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irseg

QUIT BUYING THINGS!!! YOU DON'T NEED TO REPLACE YOUR 3 YEAR OLD CAR!

No offense, but after all the posts with your worries about being in so much debt, it had to be said.

Averett

Ha

No, I know... I'm only halfway serious. I know I can't afford a new car. Although the payments would be less, I'd be tacking on 5 more years instead of the 10 months or so I have left on my current loan.

But sigh... It would be nice to have a shiny new car! Especially when mine has little dings and scratches and a stupid ding in the windshield from a stone

But I would really like to hear more about the Hybrid

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Halx

I hear honda also developed a 72mpg diesel engine. They have it running around somewhere in Germany in a TSX-style Accord. Who knows when they will release it, but they ALSO have a new engine called the iVTEC I that has some insane air-to-fuel ratio... fuel efficiency is looking good down the road.

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Cynthetiq

yeah... me too.. my neon is almost paid off... and while I'd love to be the owner of a new MINI... it doesn't do me much good to be that kind of consumer.

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Averett

I went to the dealership today to testdrive the hybrid. But they didn't have any on the lot

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G_Whiz

WOW, I've had the hybrid for over a year and this thread came back to life.

The followup is that I still love it. You can't get one without going on a waiting list. Around here the Toyota Prius has a waiting list that is from 4-6 months long. I haven't heard how long the list for the Honda.

Just a couple of basics that I've learned over the past year. First, it has already paid for itself in terms of savings over my old truck. The payments are less and I only fill it up once or twice a month. My truck had to be filled up once a week and took 2-3 times as much gas.

Second, you have to learn how to drive to get the best gas mileage. It does have some interesting mpg displays that are real time. So the thing you notice is that you are driving by the mpg instead of mph.

Lastly, I don't regret my purchase at all. But, if I were doing it again today, I would probably get the Toyota Prius. The difference is in how they use the electric motors. The Honda is a gas engine with an electric boost. When you are moving, the gas engine is always running. With the Toyota, it's an electric motor with a gas boost. Slow speeds do not start the gas engine unless the battery needs charging. So around town, the Toyota gets better gas mileage. If you are travelling any distance at speed, the Honda is probably the better choice. Although I do hear that the new Toyotas are now rated at 61 mpg city and 60 mpg highway. That does beat my Honda (I get between 47 and 51 mpg on my highway trips).

I should have known that there would be more interest in this thread now that gas prices have gotten so high.

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FFT

I'll wait for the Honda Civic Hybrid CVT.

irseg

That's it? It has the electric assist, extreme light weight, ridiculously skinny tires, aerodynamic design, and that's all it can do? Considering the Corvette and Buick LeSabre get around 30 mpg on the highway, I'm quite unimpressed.

I'd be interested to see what kind of mileage you'd get from a conventional gas or especially diesel engine of comparable power in an Insight body, with the weight savings from removing the batteries and motor.

Nimisys

for that type of highway milage i would be looking at a VW TDI myself.

G_Whiz

Before you go off on the mileage that you can get with a Hybrid, consider that the info that I gave is based on real usage, not EPA tests. I have never seen a car get the mileage that shows up on the EPA tags. Especially not in California.

Also, the difference between 30 mpg and 50 is significant.

To finish off, I don't know what Hybrid you are talking about with skinny tires and aerodynamic styling. The Civic Hybrid looks like a standard Honda Civic. No special styling, the tires are standard. That was one of the selling points.

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Peryn

The Honda Insight hybrid is NOT the same as the Civic Hybrid. The insight weighs in at 1850 lbs, as opposed to the 2650 in the civic. The civic has a bigger gas engine, seats 4 (5 techincally, but not comfortably) instead of 2, has more options (tilt wheel, wheel mounted controls, etc.), has bigger tires. All that and it still gets 50mpg with real world driving. The insight, with all its weight savings (and ugly design) only gets an EPA overestimate of 60/66 mpg.

Id say that Civic is doing a pretty damn good job.

Personally, given the price, the mileage, and the features (notice i left out the styling) - the new Toyota Prius is a better deal. Better mileage from its superior use of the electric motor, similar base price, CVT transmisison, and numerous cool features ( brake assist, traction control, etc.) it is just an all around better car.

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MSD

Then, you swap in a twin-turbo RSX Type S engine and run 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Oh, sorry, off topic again.


I'd probably go with the Civic over the Prius if I had the money for a new car. I can't really say why, I just do't like the Prius as much.

Averett

I hate the style of the Prius, but it does seem like a better overall car...

Grr... Must think think think.

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Averett

Well... Just called up 2 Toyota dealerships in my area. Not one Prius to be found. One salesman told me that it might be a year before they even have one on the lot.

Honda was unsure when they might have a Civic Hybird in. A week - maybe.

So it looks like I'll be waiting.

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Peryn

Well, go back a year and it comes down more to brand loyalty than anything else. Compare a 03 Prius with an 04 Civic Hybrid and youll find they are VERY similar cars. A used/pre-owned Prius will be about as much as a base model Civic hybrid, if not a little less expensive. It has almost the exact same rated mileage as the civic, though it actually get better mileage in the city than the highway (52/45 as opposed to teh civics 46/51). The Prius will give you a better warranty, though it doesn't seem to do quite as well in the crash tests. I think that teh Prius looks much better in person than it does in the pictures though.

A reasonably in depth comparison of number between the 03 and 04 Prius, and the 04 Civic Hybrid :
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...98491&v=t98664

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PsychoMan

As someone who just went through the process of buying a Toyota Prius, I can offer the following information:

Wait times for the 2004 Prius are very long. I ordered mine in late February and I am finally picking it up this Saturday (May 22nd). I have heard that the US models have an even longer wait period than the Canadian models. Not sure why. Perhaps it is the navigation system.

In 2004 Toyota received many more orders than they were expecting, which is why the wait times are so long. No word on whether they will ramp up production for 2005... so the wait period might be just as long for those. I have heard that the 2005 Prius will be exactly the same as the 2004 Prius.

Make sure you do the math before buying. The amount you save on gas does NOT make up for the extra premium you pay for a hybrid car. Even with gas prices where they are, for the average person it is still more cost effective to buy a regular car. I'm not sure if the numbers will change with the 2005 model, but I doubt it.

I look at my purchase as an investment in technology... not as a money saving or environment saving plan. After all, the real world figures for gas mileage are comparable to smaller regular cars. So by driving a Prius I'm not saving money or saving the environment, but hopefully I am sending a message to car manufacturers that the public is not afraid of new technology. At the same time, I'm getting a pretty spiffy car with a lot of cool features.

shakran

It's a great car and the gas mileage is much better than a regular civic, but expect somewhat lower MPG than the EPA estimate. The EPA MPG measuring process isn't overly accurate on hybrid cars. Other than that, though, you're getting a great little machine there.

BoCo

I've heard they don't get any better mileage per gallon than normal gasoline models.

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G_Whiz

I don't know where you heard that, but my personal experience is that I get mileage that is almost twice what I got with a similar car.

To repeat, I am not getting EPA mileage (who does), but I'm averaging 40+ mpg.

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irseg

Now that is one good reason I can see to buy a hybrid. It's not going to save you money any time soon (that $20k you spend on one could buy quite a bit of gas for your current car!). Its environmental benefits are dubious at best since you're still using a gas-powered car, just with an electric boost to give it acceptable acceleration. And of course there's the little issue of the hundreds of pounds of lead-acid batteries onboard.

But buying it because you think the technology is cool and you want to see manufacturers release more high-tech stuff to the public.. well damn, I wish more people thought that way!

My 16 year old Thunderbird has a computerized suspension that stiffens up the shocks when you drive it hard, or you can flip a switch and make it ride firm all the time. Works like a charm. A bunch of other 80s and early 90s cars had that too. Now you only see stuff like that in high-end cars. Same with 4-wheel steering. Some GM pickups offer it now (as something to make towing and parking easier), but a lot of sports cars used to have it.

A lot of cool technology shows up briefly, then dies off because of all the idiots who think things like power windows are needless excesses and buy accordingly.

PsychoMan

Just to be a little more clear:

In the city, the car is mostly using the electric motor to drive the car. The gas engine only kicks in to keep the batteries charged.

On the highway it is true that it mostly uses the gas engine and the electric motor kicks in to provide more power for passing.

Also, the car does not contain "hundreds of pounds of lead-acid batteries". The main battery consists of 28 nickel-metal hydride cells (7.2 V each), and weighs 30% less than the battery in the original Prius did.

merkerguitars

I'm glad to hear the positive results from your purchase, seems like you easily got your money's worth. This really makes me think highly of a hybrid now (my thoughts where positive but not this positive)

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kulrblind

You forget that you're not shelling out $20k to save on gas, you're also getting a car for that money. If you're swapping a 2003 car for a new hybrid, I could see your point.

Beyond what other posters have said about these vehicles being electric-in-the-city, I'll offer this: using less gas is beneficial to the environment. The end.

irseg

If you already have a car that runs well, the amount you'd spend on a hybrid could keep it fueled up for years.

Furthermore, if you want to buy a new car anyway, you could buy something comparable to a hybrid for about $6k less. A regular car that gets 30 mpg would cost $500/year in gas if you drive 15k miles. A hybrid getting 45 mpg would cost $333. A difference of $167/year. Better plan on keeping that hybrid for a while, because at that rate it'd take 36 years to cover that difference in cost.

kulrblind

Wait... You're paying a dollar a gallon?

Also, I assume you'd be getting 30mpg in the city, which would be much more than 45mpg in a hybrid that's operating on electric-in-the-city driving. And what of the incentives that G_whiz referred to? He's obviously not dreaming that this vehicle is saving him money.

irseg

Brain fart. Make that $2/gallon, and the time for the hybrid to cover the difference plummets to "only" 18 years.

I was comparing highway vs highway, but if you want to compare 25 vs 50 mpg city at $2/gallon and 15k miles/year, thats $1200 vs 600. $600/year, or 10 years. You get the idea-- it takes longer to pay the difference than most people would own the car.

There are tax incentives to buy hybrids now ($2000 credit I believe), but those are being phased out over the next few years.

If you do a LOT of driving and plan to keep the car a long time it can make economic sense, but as it stands hybrids really are for people who want to have a high-tech new toy, or want to be high and mighty about how environmentally friendly they are while not inconveniencing themselves by doing anything drastic like giving up cars altogether.

KiwiKiwi

irseg - Whether Hybrids make economic sense depends on personal philosophies. When you factor in the benefits from the positive externalities (which can't be given a price) generated by using less gas, you might see a different picture. You're looking at the personal economic costs of buying and driving a hybrid, not the personal benefits (feels good / nice car), and the societal benefits (nicer environment / promoting change in auto technology). However, if you're only influence is personal costs, you might not see a hybrid as such a good idea. In any case, <b>honest</b> people can disagree about whether it's a good decision to buy a hybrid, based on their percieved costs and benefits.

BTW, I don't drive a hybrid.

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G_Whiz

KiwiKiwi makes a good point. The benefits of buying a hybrid are based on your individual priorities. So let me try to lay out how it worked for me.

1) My car payments went down by $75 per month.
2) My gas costs per month went down by $75 per month (this was last year when gas costs were about $1/gallon less).
3) I got a $2000 deduction on my federal taxes.

Those are the economic benefits.

The other benefits include that the car is a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV). And, it's a lot more comfortable to drive.

Yes, I could have found other cars that cost less and still had some of the other benefits. But as an overall package, it met my priorities.

I disagree heartily with the suggestion that I bought the car as a high tech toy. Getting new "toy" was not part of the equation. Getting a reliable vehicle that will last me for several years and be fuel efficient during the time of rising gas costs is what I bought it for. I am retiring in 4 months. Keeping costs under control is a major factor in my decision making.

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Daoust

* BUMP *

I'm seriously looking into a Civic Hybrid, and I"m wondering if any other TFPers have taken the plunge and bought a hybrid car. Specifically any Canadians. I would love to hear some first hand accounts and maybe some updates from Hybrid owners like G_Whiz.

Averett - did you end up buying one?

Please give me some info. And yes, I did a TFP search. I want new info.

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