zztzed

I'm not really sure if this should go in Tilted Living or here. I think it fits here, since I'm asking for car advice, but if I'm wrong, I'm sure a mod will move it for me.

Anyway, a little background ... I'm 19. At the moment, I can't drive, but hopefully I'll be rectifying that in the coming months (especially considering that I'll be going to school and work (well, they'll be the same place, but still), and my life will be a lot easier as far as that goes if I can drive).

So obviously, it would be nice to have my own car, and I've been thinking about how I could accomplish this.

My family has a currently inoperable '91 Pontiac Grand Prix. I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with it... I seem to recall that my dad said the transmission's busted, but I really don't remember exactly. In any case, I asked him about it and he estimated that it'll cost about $1700 to fix. (Where he got this, I dunno. I'm assuming it's what his mechanic told him.) The car's been sitting in our driveway for a year or two now, though, since we haven't had the money to fix it, So for all I know other things could've gone wrong with it since then due to this neglect.

A friend of mine says that I should just go ahead and see about getting the old car fixed up, because I'd have a record of all the work that's been done on it. I don't know if that's really a good reason, though -- can't Carfax tell me that kind of stuff about other cars? I realize it wouldn't tell me everything, but I'd think most important things would be covered, and I don't think we've really kept perfect records on the old car, either.

And on top of that, there's other 'fixing-up' that could stand to be be done on the car (reupholstering, mostly). The $1700 would be just to get it running again.

So I'm wondering what would be wiser and more cost-effective in the long run -- repairing the Pontiac or just getting a new car. (And when I say "new" I really mean "used but in better condition and better cared for than our old Pontiac". I realize buying a brand-new car would probably be insane at this point given how quickly they depreciate.)

I realize I may not have given a whole lot of useful information here, but I'm not really sure what's pertinent and what's not, and I admittedly don't know a whole lot about the car, other than it's old, was used a lot (I know it has over 100k miles on it), was in the shop several times, and is in (obviously) pretty crappy shape now. If there's other stuff you'd need to know to give me useful advice, let me know and I'll see what I can find out.

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"It seemed to me that if humanoids eat chicken, then obviously they'd eat their own species, otherwise they'd just be picking on the chickens."

otter

Honestly, I would look for another car. A '91 Grand Prix is hardly worth the $1700 it'd cost you to fix it, and after fixing that, something else could quickly go wrong with a car that old.

IMO, it would be a better investment to seek a mid to late nineties car with a reasonable level of miles on it, and talk to you bank. It's better to pay a bit more for something that will last longer.

FastShark85

Agree that you should look for another car. If cheap and dependable is your goal, look for a Honda. Fast and cool can be your next car.

zztzed

Heh. I'm not really that concerned about fast and cool. I just want to be able to get from point A to point B. And maybe go on the occasional day trip down to Charleston or up to Atlanta.

A couple of my friends have Hondas... I don't really like them. I'm 5'10"-11" or so and pretty heavyset and they feel way too small to me. Of course, that may just be because I fidget and cross/uncross my legs a lot when I'm in the passenger's seat.

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"It seemed to me that if humanoids eat chicken, then obviously they'd eat their own species, otherwise they'd just be picking on the chickens."

Curving_Edge

ummm, its a pontiac, so sell it, and use the money from that, plus whatever you have saved up to get a nissan, toyota, or honda. Most reliable and safest cars on the road. ( my bro has an 83 toyota celica with 520,000 miles on the odo.)

zztzed

It's not mine to sell; even if it were, in the condition it's in I suspect it wouldn't be worth much. I was merely considering the possibility of getting it fixed up because it seemed like it might be cheaper, but it sounds like it probably wouldn't be in the long run.

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"It seemed to me that if humanoids eat chicken, then obviously they'd eat their own species, otherwise they'd just be picking on the chickens."

Curving_Edge

nah, just go out and get a japanese car, it will run longer, smoother, and save you more money. (gas, repairs, etc...)

newman

Take a picture. I'd love to see that. If it has 520k miles (which I highly doubt) it had to have been rebuilt once or even twice or had another engine put in. Engines simply don't last that long, especially motors from the 80's. My dad has a 73 suburban that's reached 300,000 miles but only because he changes his oil religiously and gets it tuned up here and there, and back then motors were made with quality. I simply do not believe you. Sorry.

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-woot-

Moonduck

My handy NADA (Dealer's edition) for Older cars tells me that your Pontiac ain't worth fixing (best case scenario of a 2D Coupe GT in dealer ready condition with low miles is about $3300). Even without knowing anything about your car, it is likely only going to be worth barely more than the $1700 you'll put into to get it running.

Take your money and find something else.

350Z

early 90s pontiac, stay away.

you considered a motorcycle? insurance is cheap(500 a year or so), gas is cheap, fun to drive, lots of power for little cash. you can start on a ninja 250 for about 2500, or go to a nice R6 for about 6000$, Im talkin 3-4 years old for these prices too, so not too old.

doesnt work if you have to transport something bigger than will fit in a back pack tho.

otherwise CRX, can be had for cheap, parts are cheap, modifications are plentiful(If you ever wanna go that route).

zztzed

I have considered a motorcycle. Not seriously, though. It'd give my poor parents heart attacks.

Besides, if I get in a really bad accident, I think I'd prefer to be pried out of a wreck than scraped off the road.

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"It seemed to me that if humanoids eat chicken, then obviously they'd eat their own species, otherwise they'd just be picking on the chickens."

350Z

true true, not good for safety. great for college campuses tho, even a scooter, but not great if you have to commute back to home. college parking can by expensive, atleast at my university a spot is about 360 a year, while a motorcycle pass(which is much more flexible) is 60$. so getting around campus is good, or shortly off campus, long commute on highways are no good, as rain, snow, ect stops a motorcycle if you have to go more than like a mile.

roadkill doesnt sound very appealing tho.

zztzed

Parking's cheap at my school; $10/semester, no matter what you drive. Hooray for small-town universities.

So yeah, safety and reliability are basically my main concerns.

I'll definitely keep what you guys here have told me in mind.

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"It seemed to me that if humanoids eat chicken, then obviously they'd eat their own species, otherwise they'd just be picking on the chickens."

Sion

"Take a picture. I'd love to see that. If it has 520k miles (which I highly doubt) it had to have been rebuilt once or even twice or had another engine put in. Engines simply don't last that long, especially motors from the 80's. My dad has a 73 suburban that's reached 300,000 miles but only because he changes his oil religiously and gets it tuned up here and there, and back then motors were made with quality. I simply do not believe you. Sorry."

520k miles on an engine is rare, but not unheard of. and I can tell from experience that Toyota's engines, even in the early 80s, were of excellent quality. (as opposed to most american models, even many of those made in the last 10 years). one of the things you have to realize is that most Japanese engines are made to meet a much higher initial quality standard than domestics. that is why they tend to more expensive to buy and to maintain (ie replacement part costs). so I have no problem believing that car has half a million miles on the odometer.

now, you do have a point that the engine has most likely undergone at least one complete rebuild (or several partials). even under the best of conditions and maintenance, friction will eventually cause the need for bearings and whatnot to need replacement.


as to the initial question: is zztzed's 91 Grand Prix worth fixing? maybe. obviously, the first issue is why it hasnt been driven for a "year or two". if the transmission is really bad, then either a rebuild or replacement is in order. $1700 seems really high to me, but then again, I dont know what the cost of living in SC is like. around here (central Ohio) I know that you could have that tranny rebuilt for $300-$500. Or even less if you pull it out yourself. Or for a bit more, say about $1000, you could buy a rebuilt/reconditioned tranny from any one of half a dozen parts stores and have it installed (figuring $500-$700 for the tranny plus labor to reach $1k).

now, the question then becomes, what condition is the rest of the car in? if the body and frame are solid, and the engine is in decent shape, then it might be worth it. lets say that the condition of the car (other than the tranny) is a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being a junk heap, 10 being like-new). for $1k or less, you can have it on the road. but for that same money, you wont be able to buy a car in 5 condition. more like a 3.

on the other hand, if the car (less tranny) is only in 3 condition, then it would be a toss up. if less than 3 condition, junk it.

also, 150k on the engine sounds like a lot, but the kind of miles (ie highway versus city) as well as the maintenance it has recieved, factor heavily into the condition of the engine. I have seen engines at 200k that were in like-new condition because of proper maintenance. Ive also seen engines at 50k that were dying of neglect. my 92 NYer 3.3L has 185k on it and purrs like a kitten.

another question Id want to know is which engine is in it? 4 cylinder or v6? which v6?

as for Carfax, they dont give you maintenance records, only information with regard to it having ever been in a wreck or flood, etc.

there is an old saying "Better the devil that you know..." which applies in this case. Buying a used car (of any year) is always a bit of a gamble, because you dont know how the car was used or maintained. at least with the GP, you know the history of the car. you should factor that into the equation.

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He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

Stare At The Sun

yeah, i'd believe that high of miles, shit, there have been volvo's that have passed the 1 million mark. I would like to see a pic though, just for the fuck of it.

Moonduck

I've a friend who's (recently dead) Volvo has a documented 1.3 million miles on it. Tough car. He managed to hit some scrap steel and did horrible things to the undercarriage and underside. Dead, it is.

Type-R

A while ago (3 or 4 moths) They had some shitkicker Volvo roadster that was over 2million miles...


EDIT: A while ago on Tonight Show w/ Leno, that is (forgot to add)
/stupid