Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Motors


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2003, 12:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Chicago
r32 vs. sti vs. EVO

On The Street

Raise your hand if you like to drive a race car every day. Okay, while some of these cars are the basis for race cars (or namely rally cars), they aren't quite like driving a full out race car on the street. The EVO and STI are however brash, loud and leave little doubt as to their intentions – be forewarned. They are however a LOT of fun to drive. But where do you draw the line where comfort ends and your fun begins?

For most of us, the drive starts by getting in the car and sitting down. All of these cars are extremely accommodating to performance minded drivers. All three cars can seat 4 people, albeit the R32 would be a bit cramped in the rear seat and would be best suited to children or short trips with adults. This is actually a potential blessing in disguise as the R32 has only 2 doors. Let your friends take their own car for a change.

When sitting in any of these cars, size can make a great difference in comfort. We had a wide variety of drivers in attendance during our test and most found all the different seats comfortable. A few testers complained about the fitment in the R32 and others found the STi's side bolsters a little on the weak side. The EVO's Recaros seem provided the best blend of snugness and comfort (and the least amount of complaints). The STi seats look to be very comfortable, but our guess is that Subaru made them a little less aggressive for our market to accommodate American's lard butts. Most drivers would most likely be most at home in the R32 and EVO's seats whereas the STi seats suited our larger driver a bit better.

Adjusting the seats in all the vehicles proved easy and quick. Both the STi and R32 had simple and quick adjustments to get into a comfortable driving position. However, some of our testers found the Evo's seat adjustment more cumbersome. The STi and the R32 provide height adjustment in addition to front and aft movement.


Two of these cars are four-door sedans, so what about putting friends in the backseat? Mitsubishi put a little more consideration in rear seat passenger accommodations by providing both an arm rest and cup holders. The Mitsubishi also has more room in the rear seat, however the extremely flat bench leaves something to be desired. The Subaru's rear bench was more contoured and better supported, but space is at a premium compared to the Evo.

From the driver's seat the first and most obvious pluses and minuses with each of the cars laid in their dash layouts. The Mitsubishi suffers the most in this contest with cheaper feeling plastics and a gauge cluster that suffers from poor contrast and size. Both the R32 and STi faired better. The R32 had a clean and easy to read dash with a layout that was comfortable and eye pleasing. In fact, the entire dash and interior shined of a quality not seen in the manufacturing process of both the Subaru and Mitsubishi – real brushed aluminum accents instead of plastic pieces painted to look like metal. This is of course, where the luxury of the R32 stands out. If you want plush performance, this is where it's at. In the STi turning on the gauge cluster for the first time will put a smile on you face as the needles dance from one end to the other and a bright red electroluminescent glow sets in. The backlit gauges provided unmatched visibility during the day and night. The gauge cluster is definitely what makes the Subaru stand out while the rest of the dash remains very similar to a standard WRX with occasional bits of red stitching which remains nice and simple.

Once under way you can start to really sort out the differences in how these vehicles produce their power. The EVO produces little power in the lower rev range, but once the turbo spools up to 19.5psi of boost the car rockets forward. This is quite uncharacteristic given the car's company in this test. Being normally aspirated and with healthy low end torque the R32 simply pulls and pulls in a nice strong linear fashion. The R32 engine is less frenetic than the other two cars and begs you to hot rod it around the corners. This is accentuated further by a unique and wonderful stock exhaust note. The Evo and STi are remarkably quiet in comparison with the Evo having just a hint of exhaust tuning around idle. The STi falls somewhere between the R32 and Evo's low-end powercurve, giving a measurable amount of torque down low along with a great turbo rush up high that is more linear than the Evo.

While you're experimenting with the power, you'll start to notice the quirks (or lack thereof) in the gear boxes of all three cars. The Volkswagen suffered from the poorest clutch engagement feedback due to an overly light clutch and a twitchy response. Our test car served time as an show car with thousands of people sitting in it "playing racecar driver" with the clutch and shifter which reportedly left it with a hamstrung clutch takeup. This quick clutch takeup resulted in more difficultly to get underway smoothly, often resulting in a jerky ride. The three other R32's we have driven didn't exhibit this behavior, so we chalk it up to this individual car and its past history. Rowing through the gears on the Volkswagen is similar to the STi, as both offer short-ratio 6 speeds requiring a third shift before hitting 60mph. The gearing on both cars feels appropriate and in tune with the engines, permitting you to stay in the powerband as long as needed and making it even more fun to string out the engine. The 6-speed on the R32 in general felt great and not overly notchy or loud, leaving the only complaint being the odd clutch action. On the STi, the 6-speed proves to be an improvement over the stock gearbox offered in the standard WRX model. The transmission shows no sign of weakness or shudder that became a frequent complaint with WRX owners. However the shifter felt sloppy compared to the other two cars with longer throws exaggerating the problem. The shifter in the STi seems tall, perhaps to facilitate the different stalk needed for the reverse trigger (you pull up on a part of the shifter to get into reverse), but either way cutting down the shaft will likely solve the problem. The Evo was the only car in the group to have a 5-speed. The 5-speed allowed enough spacing to facilitate less shifting, but also forced you to push the car further in order to stay within the powerband. While the 5-speed didn't seem to exhibit any quirks during normal driving it was by far the "tightest" gearbox in the group with very short throws between gears. Aggressive driving tended to cause sporadic grinds between gears, namely 4th to 5th as well as 1st to 2nd. Hopefully that was simply a glitch with our well-worn test car.
Out on the road it proved to be difficult to stay below the posted speed limits forcing you to back off before your eccentric car grabs the attention of the local law enforcement. The R32 wins the stealth award in this group since the other two sport big wings, stickers and even gold colored wheels. If flashiness is not your cup of tea, you may want to apply elsewhere.


As mentioned earlier, the Evo and STi might just as well be homologated street cars as they are brash, noisy and transmit every bump and pebble directly to your ear drums. The R32 offers significantly more sound dampening and does a good job of removing a significant portion of external noises but allows enough of the exhaust note to come through reminding you of what lurks under the hood. The Evo and STi feel more rigid than the R32 owing to newer platforms but seemed to transmit more road imperfections than the R32. The Evo provides a sporty mix with a stiff chassis that provides a tolerable mixture of outside noise and vibration with driver comfort. The STi seemed to be the noisiest car of the three with tire noise that was apparent at even slower speeds.

So obviously, if you want comfort and performance, the R32 is the comfort king in this group. The STi and Evo are kissing cousins in comparison with the Evo edging out the STi for comfort and performance on the street. So how do these cars compare on the track?



Information © 2003 VWvortex.com
All rights reserved.
Material may not be copied or reprinted without written permission.


Performance Comparison

How we did it:
Nearly everyone that will review these cars has, or will, take them to a race track to compare their performance. This is the only venue you can safely explore the limits of these cars and really learn how they behave when pushed hard. We packed up all three cars and headed down to The Tire Rack in South Bend, Indiana. Tire Rack moved to new digs last year that included a new state-of-the-art warehouse and headquarters building complete with a small roadcourse and skidpad for testing purposes. The course we ran that day was identical to the layout used in The Tire Rack's tire comparison articles and consisted of a slalom test, tight left and right-hand turns, long high-speed sweepers and included one lap around a 200ft. diamter skid pad all segmented for time. We also did independent skid pad testing on the wet skid pad to not only take measurements but to see how controllable these car are under steady-state cornering and to get a feel for the characteristics of the all-wheel-drive systems. There were eight drivers total: two Tire Rack testers, two VWvortex staff members, two Subdriven staff members and two independent drivers. Each driver got a minimum of six laps in each car and ran the course two laps each turn for time. Drivers also rotated from car to car after each course lap in sets of three to ensure they were able to drive each car back-to-back.

The results:
The early consensus before all the testing was that the R32 didn't stand a chance against the more powerful Evo and STi. We also really didn't know what to expect between the Evo and STi since one is more powerful than the other, yet most U.S. magazines rated the slower car higher. We conducted walk-arounds of each of the vehicles and tire pressures were set to factory specifications. All cars were stock as they are shipped by the manufacturer, the only odd-ball being the R32 which was a German-specification model. Volkswagen assures us the U.S. spec version will be mechanically identical.

In doing our walk arounds, Tire Rack's main tire testers John Rasteter and John "Woody" Rogers pointed out that the both the Evo and STi had tires uniquely designed for those cars and that they were near-"R" compound rubber that has a very short life-span but rewards in serious levels of grip. The R32 rode on Michelin Pilot Sport high-performance street tires that make a great street tire with good wear characteristics but typically don't do as well on the track. They figured the R32 would be about a second behind the other two cars based on tires alone.

The first thing to point out is that each of these cars is a lot of fun to drive. We are talking about a group of cars with impressive credentials that put them in the top 10% of drivers vehicles period. However all three are very different in how they behave on the track and you ultimately can't judge any of these cars purely on paper. For instance the R32 is down nearly 60hp compared to the STi and is quite a bit slower in timed acceleration runs as reported in most magazines. It also had the weakest tires in this group, yet it managed to come within a second of the other two cars in the timed laps.

Another interesting point was in initial impressions. Most drivers felt the Evo felt flatter on the track and was more controlled at the limit compared to the STi. The STi seemed to exhibit quite a bit of bodyroll, dive and squat in comparison to the other two cars with the R32 having the most streetable/trackable suspension setup. All three cars resolutely understeered at the limit, however the R32 responded to throttle input more proactively than the others in the group. Lifting off the throttle on the skid pad caused nearly no change in the STi, caused the nose to tighten the line a bit more in the Evo and actually caused the rear end of the R32 to step out in a controlled fashion. The R32's stock suspension (remarkably we might add) actually had the most neutral setup allowing the driver to balance the car on throttle more easily than the other two. That said the drive-by-wire throttle common in the German cars is not as easy to modulate as the traditional cable throttles in the Evo or the drive-by-wire throttle in the STi. So a number of drivers had a hard time modulating the throttle in the R32 which made things a bit more jumpy on the skid pad where there R32 was sensitive to throttle input.

Between the Evo and the STi the Evo had less overall bodyroll, dive and squat and felt more composed at the limits. Overall it was easier to drive quickly and also easier to explore the limits and even go past the limits. The Subaru in contrast felt loose and slightly out of control coupled with the intense rush of power that can really make it feel intimidating. However, if you continue to explore those limits and can become comfortable with the ensuing chaos, the STi will reward you with faster lap times.

So as you probably guessed, the STi and Evo must have been real close. In fact, they were extremely close. Final lap times resulted in the STi taking the overall best time by 1/10th of a second (in the hands of one of a Vortex staffer no less). The Evo and STi came within less than 1/100th on the top 10 averaged times. Owing perhaps to the comfort level people felt in the Evo over the STi at the limts, the averaged times closed the gap between the two cars. The drivers that were willing to put their faith in the STi were rewarded with slightly faster lap times (although still only by a tenth of a second).

The R32 obviously couldn't hold up to the STi and Evo, especially with the stock tires as it was very easy to overdrive them after getting out of the other two cars. The R32's best time fell within 7 to 8/10ths of a second of the STi and Evo's best times (in the hands of one of The Tire Rack testers), however the R32's top 10 average was about a second off. Given better tires, the R32 probably could have been right in the thick of it according to The Tire Rack. It still doesn't have the power of the STi and Evo, but it has quite nearly a true track suspension straight from the dealership owing perhaps to the fact that it was only designed to be a street car whereas the STi and Evo might be used off-road in a rally cross.


What about grip? On the dry skidpad, both the STi and Evo pulled a best .99g with the Evo just edging out the STi on the top ten average with a .97g versus .96g. The R32 was left back (but still respectable) with a skidpad measurement of .94g and an average skidpad of .93g. Considering the R32 exhibited the best overall suspension handling for the skidpad, tires seemed to be a restriction yet again.

On the wet skid pad we tried our best to upset these cars trying everything from left foot braking to severe lift-off with more turn-in and they simply stayed glued in place or just pushed into understeer. In fact during photography we asked one of our Subdriven staffers that rally-crosses to get the rear end out on the STi (something he is quite good at). He eventually had to give the car a scandinavian flick and heavy duty power on to get it out there.

In the slalom the STi turned the best time by 1/10th of a second over the Evo with the R32 following next 2/10th of a second later.


So you see, all you WRX STi fetish freaks have something to look out for.

VW in da hizzy
__________________
Where dem bitches at?
Atomic Pinkie is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 12:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
Crazy
 
niiice.. too much to read though
acpower is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 01:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
**PORNHOUND**
 
Ashton's Avatar
 
Location: California
Too many words....... I just got home from playing with my girls, I can't and won't read all that.......

I come to the TFP for fun and laughs..... My Martini is getting warm just writing this.........
Ashton is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 02:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Chicago
sorry, let me paraphrase:

Heartbreak all you WRX STi fans, the *VW* GolfR32, with tires up to snuff with the STi would hold its own against them.

Muwhahhahahhaha
__________________
Where dem bitches at?
Atomic Pinkie is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 08:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: colorado
hahah, here i was thinking you were talking about the r32 skyline gtr.
evo_schen is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 02:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
Cruisin thru life
 
thadon's Avatar
 
Location: Alpharetta, GA
yep glancing at the long thread I too thought we were talking about a Skyline ... we were wrong ... I'd take the STi
thadon is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 02:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
3x0
Insane
 
3x0's Avatar
 
STI all the way ! =]
3x0 is offline  
Old 07-07-2003, 05:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
Whaddya mean my hair is "GREEN"???
 
Location: Melbourne
When I first started reading it, I too thought Skyline GTR, then wondered why you were using an R32 and not the current R34 (btw has everyone seen the new R35 - absolutely wild! But I digress...), then when you got down to the performance I knew we were talking VW - the GTR would destroy all three cars without a doubt!
__________________
AND WHERE..........

...is the Batman?
nickt is offline  
Old 07-09-2003, 04:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: NZ
Being from a place where evo's 1-7 are very common (especially the 1,2,3's) and where there is a WRX at every corner and an STi at every 3rd corner (ok a small exageration but compared to other countries) we get to hear a large number of comparisons between the Evo and the WRX. Everyone's opinions are very different and each car has subtle differences that makes them suit particular things.

The evo's are all good at being modified to do quarter miles simply due to their practically bulletproof transmissions where as the STi transmissions were a lot weaker than the evo g/boxes. I've driven both and the 96 WRX was more driver friendly and nicer to sit in and had a better build quality feel to it, the evo 2 was very harsh and it appeared cheap inside with lots of rattles but it did go a bit harder and handled a bit more on the edge.

Have never seen the VW you are talking about here in New Zealand which is being compared to these 2 cars.

I've got a good magazine article on the Evo vs STi vs R32 Skyline GTR. In comparing the GTR to the evo and sti you are really comparing an apple to oranges, the first 2 are based on a rallying background where as the skyline is more a tarmac racing car which owned everything it raced back at Bathurst before it was banned cause it was too fast
mazbf is offline  
Old 07-09-2003, 08:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: colorado
i know the exact feeling, i was in hong kong a couple years back and you can't evo's and wrx's were all over the place. only thing that outnumbers them were the amount of mercedes benz and bmws
evo_schen is offline  
Old 07-09-2003, 04:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Don't worry about it.
German is the only way to go. All wheel drive VR6. Won't be as quick as the STi or the Evo's, but your getting a hell of alot more care. That thing probably weighs close to 3000 pounds.

I'd buy a german machine before any Japanese one.
Kurant is offline  
Old 07-09-2003, 10:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Chicago
Everyone is obsessed with the WRX, frankly, it just doesn't have any real competitors yet. So, stop acting like its the answer to everything. Its not.
__________________
Where dem bitches at?
Atomic Pinkie is offline  
Old 07-09-2003, 10:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Chicago
well *NOW* it does, but for awhile, it didn't.
__________________
Where dem bitches at?
Atomic Pinkie is offline  
Old 07-10-2003, 12:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
3x0
Insane
 
3x0's Avatar
 
sti and evo > golf...
scooby and evo are classics, gofl no matter how good it would be (it's much worse than evo and sti anyway...) is still a supermarket car comparing to these two...
3x0 is offline  
Old 07-10-2003, 10:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Chicago
slap some rally tires on the r32 and see what happens....remember....two are RALLY cars...specifically built for racing, yet this lovely anniversary car can keep up with them.
__________________
Where dem bitches at?
Atomic Pinkie is offline  
 

Tags
evo, r32, sti

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:54 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360