Willravel

(hopefully)

For those that don't know, there are several different ways that a car manufacturer can allow the driver to operate the transmission. There's manual, which is the stick to your right (or left, if you're across the pond) which usually has 4-6 gears and reverse. You push down the clutch pedal and change gears. There's automatic, where the car does basically all the work. There's even "tiptronic" (or "steptronic", or w/e), which makes an automatic stick into a pseudo-manual stick. Then there's paddle shifters. There are two paddles on the steering wheel which, when pressed, can change gears up or down. They're common on quick cars or cars that wish they were quick, from Acura all the way up to Ferrari.

I can't stand paddle shifters. I've used them on several occasions, and even after spending many laps practicing on them I find them to be massively distracting and no where near as effective as a standard manual 5-6 speed stick shift. They're marketed well, being associated with F1 racing and all, but considering how much I move the wheel, it becomes a problem almost immediately.

So what are your experiences with paddle shifters? Were they great fun, and plenty useful? Or were they cumbersome and ineffective?

Bear Cub

Can't stand them. I don't mind clutchless manuals, or those that require the clutch only to downshift. I don't like having to positon my hands exactly where "they" decide they should be. I'd rather have full contact with one hand on the wheel, then two hands with my thumbs wrapped around.

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Martian

Part of the reason sequential manual (aka paddle shifters or 'flappy paddle gearbox' for those who watch Top Gear) works so well for Formula 1 is that the steering ratio is very tight. The entire system is designed so that the driver never has to take his hands off the steering wheel or look down, as either action at 300 kph in a pack could have rather dire consequences.

On street cars it's goofy and pointless.

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Willravel

Hmm... there doesn't seem to be as much debate as I thought.

Martian

Well, one counter argument would be that paddle placement shouldn't matter so much, since if you're changing gears while cornering you're doing it wrong anyway. Also, the electronic clutch is able to disengage and reengage faster than any human ever will.

But it's still goofy and pointless.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

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Psycho Dad

I have them on my RX8 and am not too fond of them and rarely use them. I now wish I would have got the 6 speed manual. However as the car is only a weekend driver and I don't have the wife beating a clutch to death I've learned to deal with it. I bought the car for the styling and rear seat access more than performance anyway.

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Willravel

This is interesting. Often times when I come out of an apex heading uphill I find downshifting can be very useful. That'd be shifting while turning.
This is true. In that way it's basically on par with tiptronic or other clutchless shifting methods.

Fotzlid

I have them on the Acura, but I never use them. They are small and not placed very well, not to mention feeling rather flimsy. If I want to wring the car out a bit, I can use the gear shift in manual mode.

Martian

Well, now we're getting into cornering technique.

Accelerating and decelerating both take traction, which is a finite resource. You can think of it as you have a certain amount of traction available to you at any given time. Anything that changes the car's momentum uses up some of that, so in order to corner as fast as possible you should be going at a constant speed, which is ideally the fastest speed you can go without losing grip. Once you're past the apex and coming out of the turn, you can accelerate, and that's reallocating the traction that's being freed up as you straighten your wheels. The acceleration should properly be controlled to reflect that change.

So I guess coming out of the turn you might find yourself in a position to shift. It'll depend on the course. But of course, in that case you can also reposition your hand to downshift as necessary; naturally, you should be steering out of the corner as well.

This is all race technique and not applicable to everyday driving anyway, so they're still useless on street cars. The steering ratio is also a key feature. Stock cars do not use paddle shifters, because they're against the rules. But even if they weren't, they still wouldn't because the steering ratio on a stock car is much closer to that on a real car and so the drivers have to reposition their hands more than a formula one or champ driver does (neither one should ever have to reposition their hands under normal circumstances). In fact,a formula one steering 'wheel' isn't even a wheel at all; it's more of a rounded rectangle. So it makes sense for them, but for the rest of us it's really more to evoke that F1 feel than anything else.

Tiptronic and other so called 'manumatic' transmissions are not true sequential manuals, because they use a torque converter rather than an electronically controlled clutch. In theory the electronic clutch is the better option, since the fluid coupling is inherently less efficient, but they're also much more complicated and expensive.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

telekinetic

I have them on my Fit and like them...for that application, it's more elegant than shifting the automatic gearshift down a gear to pass, or on downhills, or up for economy.

Bearcub, you don't drive with your hands on the paddles, you just grab for the paddles when you're shifting, so in that case, it's way easier than manual. I hope you were talking about driving on the street when you mean driving with one hand, because that wouldn't fly on the track.

For a performance car with non-F1 steering ratio, a rally-style ring is definitely the way to go (pull to downshift, push to upshift) so you don't need to know the wheel's orientation to change gears.

Bear Cub

I'm aware of that, I've driven several paddle shifted cars. What I was suggesting is the fact that you never have one hand that is solidly anchored 100% of the time. I'm sure that carries over from drag racing where my left hand never moves from the 7-8 oclock position.

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fiatguy85

I hate the idea of the flappy paddle gearboxes but an Aston Martin drove by me today, downshifting 3 gears. The car sounds amazing and it makes you sound like you can shift perfectly. Appearances can be meaningful for the people that buy those kinds of cars. They can also claim that their car has an "F1-derived" flappy paddle gearbox.

BadNick

no like

...I'm very happy with my good old Getrag 6 speed and lovely triple disk clutch with lightweight flywheel...shifting under any circumstance is like the car is part of my body...OK, I admit it is mastubatory.

Daemon1313

Like any feature on the car it comes down to implementation. The paddle shifters manufacturers stick on as a gimmick to most traditional automatics are crap. But I think I creamed my pants when I started using the paddles on the Lexus IS-F. It shifts insanely fast and you can keep both hands on the wheel. The Evo X paddle shifters are pretty insane to play with as well. I would imagine the paddle shifters on higher end cars like the Ferrari's would be even more so.

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BadNick

I agree with you about the "implementation", Daemon...and happily I plan to test drive an IS-F at our local dealer very soon. And I've seen high end Ferraris, and other such paddle shifted exotics, at some of the roadcourse driving events I go to and they do seem to work very well. OTOH, my personal experience with the BMW SMG paddle shifted tranny in our Z4 company car made me totally hate it and I would never want that piece of crap.

There is a time and place for everything, and IMO a paddle shifter belongs here:

josh10524

On a side note, there are situations where you may shift in a turn. Increasing or decreasing radius turns, linked sections, traffic, can all dictate a shift mid-turn, regardless of how flawless your technique is. I have to think about what I really think of paddles, I'll post on that when I've thought it out more thoroughly, but my first overriding feeling when I'm driving a sequential gearbox is that it feels wrong.

cadre

While I understand the benefits and the reasoning behind paddle shifters I hope to never own a car that uses them. Give me a manual tranny and a clutch any day, I like to be in control of the engine, not the computer.

My father's old BMW has a triptronic transmission and I find it useless, paddle shifters have given me the same feeling. At that point you'd be better off driving an automatic.

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