cadre

NOPE! People who ride are some of the coolest people ever. I've only ever once met a guy who gave me shit, and he doesn't count cause he just rides since it's what his friends do. In my class it was about 5 women and 7 men or so. If anyone gives you any trouble just send them my way.

As far as costs go, they vary quite a bit depending on the organization that does it. Some cost $200 or less and some cost as much as $500 (usually the ones run by Harley are more). Just look around and call people up for pricing if you have to. You shouldn't have to spend any insane amounts of money here.

Do you have any gear though? In some classes they require that you bring your own helmet, but this isn't all of them so I would check on that with whatever class you choose.

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Martian

If we were talking about a Fat Boy or something else that's ludicrously huge, I'd see your point. Even a 750cc Shadow really isn't all that much bike, though.

A Honda Rebel is a toy. Buell's are for people like my mother (5'2", 115 lbs). A decent sized cruiser that's stable and easy to handle is, in my opinion, the happy medium. Like Crompsin, however, I'm more or less clueless about crotch rockets.

__________________
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I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

smoore

I haven't ridden a motorcycle in years except for a putt around the block to check out a couple friends have bought and one trail ride on a buddy's 4 stroke something or other. I think it's time to get back in the wind.

All the sudden after reading this thread, I want a Buell Blast! Those things look great. Good mileage, good power, THUMPER! Mmmm, one spark plug.

Since I haven't ridden in so long I will be taking some sort of course. From what I've gathered, dying sucks.

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smoore

catback

Dying indeed does suck, I make it a daily goal to avoid dying--so far so good

surferlove007

Going to try out a bike for a fit tonight! Very excited!
I discussed riding with my dad for the first time and it was pretty interesting...his first statement was "In no way am I going to encourage this" and then he followed on to talk for an hour about stories of his days on bikes back in England and up till when he decided to sell his.
He started riding when he was 14 and stopped in his mid thirties. Apparently while riding in ATL traffic a guy on a cell phone nearly killed him, missed him by a couple inches. He said after that he sold the bike the very next day. He also gave a few stories of riding in the rain and how dangerous it is and how miserable it can be. He said 500cc sounds reasonable but he wanted me on a bike that can get me out of the way fast enough if need be. He was very impressed that there are classes for novice motorcyclist now, apparently they didn't have those back then. The Honda Rebel is what he learned on so he said he really enjoyed that bike. He said to opt for something that won't be too hard to pick up if I end up dropping it (meaning only 3 people to help lol)
I also wouldn't be riding it in ATL traffic, it would be in Bryan/College Station and only occasionally in Houston.
He did end the conversation with this "now if you end up a quadriplegic or paralyzed your mom and I won't be responsible for you, the state will." Feeling the love lol. I'm very excited about it.
I'm glad my dad was willing to talk about it, I didn't think he would.

Ilow

Well there's always these:
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/S40K8
Suzuki S40
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK8
Suzuki GS500
Both good beginner bikes. And if you really want to make me jealous...(used to be a modest 600, which you could get used)
http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorth...tml?model=2381
Ducati Monster 695

__________________
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cadre

Get used to hearing stories of people getting run off the road, or almost doing so because of cars. For some reason bikes are invisible, so just pretend like no one can see you. I've come close a couple times already, the good thing about MSF courses is that they'll teach you what to do if a car gets in your way or something and then they'll practice it with you.

Your dad is correct though, you want something you'll be likely to be able to pick up. Which may or may not be possible but some of the cruisers out there really do take 3 people to lift. The Harley Sportster for instance isn't heavy but something about the way it's designed really makes it hard to lift (not that I'd recommend that anyways). The Ninja and the Blast are both relatively light.

As far as other bikes suggestions such as these guys are making, there are plenty good starters out there but I think the two you have in mind are good choices so I'm not going to add anything on that note.

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JStrider

Hey guys, went to the Harley Dealer here and sat on some Buells, they felt really good and comfortable. I think I'm going to stick with the Buell route for now. They also told me about the course they offer which was about $300.00 and I would be learning on a Buell which looks good too since thats probably what I'll be investing my money in. **excited!**

(This is GG on James SN) whoops!

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~Clatto Verata Nicto

Jimellow

I went to two Yamaha dealerships today, and the only one I felt remotely comfortable on was the Yamaha FZ6, which is a sport/touring hybrid. I gather it's a tuned down version of the sportier bike that I can't think of off hand.

I'm a tall guy (6' 2" or so) and have very long arms. Aside from the exception mentioned above, I was most comfortable sitting on the passenger seat on all of the other sport bikes I tried. If they had flat seats, they'd be ideal, but the raised hump for the passenger makes them awkward to realistically ride for distance.

I talked with some of the guys on the floor and gather that a sport bike (Ninja, etc.) is a comfortable ride for not much more than an hour, maybe two. Given that I love going for drives in my car for hours, this kind of turned me off the sports bike class. A hybrid might be ideal, but I have long arms, and comfort is my primary concern. That being said, I would like a bike where I am primarily over the handlebars and not "cruisin'". I sat on a used Ninja and my dad said I looked ridiculous, as my arms are just too long to feasibly ride such a bike comfortably.

I've also decided I am going to start on a 500cc or higher bike. 250's are small and given that I had trouble finding a 500+ that fit, I'm not even really considering smaller bikes at this point. I also feel that I'd prefer owning a bike longer and one I won't outgrow sooner. I realize the extra power could be dangerous, but I'm a disciplined guy and don't drive my car excessively fast, despite it being able to accomplish higher speeds. Dad actually supports this decision, which admittedly surprised me a bit at first.

So far, I've only visited Yamaha dealers, but intend to check out Honda and Suzuki dealerships in the upcoming weeks. I have an alternate spot in a training class in a few weeks, and if that doesn't pan out, I'll likely take a guaranteed spot in May or June.

As I research and sit on bikes, I'm definitely getting progressively more psyched about riding... It also seems I am seeing a lot more bikes on the road of late, but I guess that's partly a credit to the beautiful weather and changing seasons.

Bikes I am excited to check out include the Suzuki SV-650 and Bandit 600. The Katana seems like a nice bike also, but I suspect both it and the SV-650 will be too small. I'm not really familiar with Honda's offerings, but I've been impressed by their reliability in car form, and ideally they have some bikes I can add to my list of potential rides.

Ideally it's alright if post my experiences/comments in this thread. I'm in about the same situation in that I'm starting out, and given that the information is likely to be related to some extent, I figure my posts might fit just as well in this thread, instead of creating a new one.

Lastly, I found a pretty informative guide about beginning motorcycle riding, which includes bike recommendations, pricing, sizing, insurance, and worthwhile safety modifications. It can be viewed at Epinions (http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-...3A46624A-prod3).

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cadre

Sportbikes aren't really designed for cruising and long rides, though some work for that. You'll find they're more designed for handling and sport riding. Sport touring bikes will be more comfy for long rides and maybe provide you some more leg room. Most companies make some but I don't know a whole lot about them unfortunately. Also, not all of the smaller bikes have smaller frames, I'm 90% sure that the frame on the Ninja is the same for both the 250 and the 500. The SV650's a good bike, not a bad starter, just take it easy.

The Harley Rider's Edge course is what I took. I wanted to see how a Buell rode and it was nice. I ended up in a class with a lot of cruiser people much older than me but it was still cool. I just went and got my bike this weekend and rode it back up here, it was really nice being able to ride it around again. It's a good bike, except it ran out of gas on me about ten miles from home..and the reserve didn't work. Never had that problem before though, and it shouldn't happen again.

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flstf

When my wife first learned to ride we bought a 500cc Buell Blast which she rode for a year before moving up to a big twin Harley. The high torque characteristics are similar.

It was interesting when I took the riding test for motorcycle endorsement the number of big twin Harley riders who were there for a second time after failing the first time around. They were borrowing other riders smaller Hondas and Suzukis which were much easier to minipulate around the cones etc.. It was funny to watch them ride in on their big Harleys, borrow someones small bike for the test and ride away with their endorsement on their big twins.

ItWasMe

Another site for bike reviews (reviewed by website, and then commented on by actual owners) http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.c...er-motorcycles

I agree with your dad about making sure you get something you can pick up. If it starts to tip on you at a stop, you're less likely to actually fall if you're strong enough to pick it back up. My girls have had dirt bikes since a young age. The bike weight is the one thing I will pay more attention to, when our youngest is old enough.

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cadre

Haha I've seen that too. The Buell has that advantage which is another reason I like it. It's light and easy to throw around, always reminded me of riding a beefy dirt bike.

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PlanG

Might be worth checking out a Kawasaki Versys, Jimellow. I've heard some good things about them, and they're easy to move in traffic, due to being a "town commuter" bike.

Its no sports bike, but with 70hp (650cc) it'll comfortably accelerate most cars.

Jimellow

Thanks for the recommendation. Coincidentally, I just read an article in Sport Rider that compared the BMW F800S (too pricey), Kawasaki Versys, and Suzuki DL650 V-Strom.

The Versys and DL650 both sounded nice, and I noted that the DL650 had a higher ride height, and was quoted as being more comfortable over long distances.

I'm curious if there are Versys models available prior to 2008? I thought I read something about them being a European bike, and only being brought to America for 2008, but I could be wrong.

Also, is the DL650 V-Strom a newer version of, or related in any way to, the Suzuki SV-650?

I'd really like to buy used if possible, not only due to pricing, but also because I won't be riding scared and overly conscious of scratching or otherwise damaging the bike. Unfortunately, the used market around here seems to be pretty weak. I found a used 2005 Yamaha FZ6 with 2000 miles or so, and the seller is asking $5500 (http://reading.craigslist.org/mcy/601023331.html). To me, that seems a bit pricey, but the bike does seem to be in great condition, and it's the only used FZ6 I've found in the area.

Again, I've only been to a Yamaha dealer so far, but this week intend to check out Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki dealerships as well. My thought is I will go to dealers, sit on bikes, find ones that are comfortable, and note them so I can look for them in the used market.

I really want to ride, but that requires a bike first. My dad had a 1976 Honda 554 that was kept outside and not maintained, and we gave that away less than a year ago. I suspect he wouldn't have let me ride it, as it was rusted and likely not safe, but it would have been nice to have something to ride until I did get my own bike.

I'm definitely psyched to ride, and this beautiful weather doesn't help the fact that I don't have a bike yet. That being said, I don't want to rush into buying a bike and being discontent with my selection.

I also think it's interesting how dealers show their true colors in regards to safety vs making a sale. I went to a smaller Yamaha dealer on Saturday and the girl there was indicating I should consider a 998cc Yamaha YZF-R1, despite me telling her it was my first bike, and I was in the process of getting my license and taking a training course. Then, at the larger dealership, my dad was sitting on a 600cc FZ6, and the dealer assumed dad was the one going to be riding it. About halfway through the discussion, I asked if the bike would be a good starter bike for me, and he said, "No, it has a lot of power" (70-80 horses, I think), but then said with training classes, it might be doable. It's just interesting to see how some people are strictly concerned with selling the most expensive bike, whereas others are actually considerate of one's safety and prior experience riding motorcycles.

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PlanG

I'm not well versed in motorcycles as I don't ride. Due to the way the law operates, to ride bikes over a certain horsepower, you need to have ridden for 2 years, or be over 21, so you're stuck on pretty low powered ones.. I think I'll wait.

Anyway, when I was looking (prior to finding this out), I considered the versys and I can say that it was produced before '08.

According to wikipedia, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Versys) it was introduced in 2007 in the US, and 2006 for Europe.

I personally think they look nice, and the fact they're suited to town driving is ideal. Not slow either, especially compared to my car (insurance is insane here for even the slowest cars when you are under 20).

Jimellow

I just got back from a Suzuki dealer. Their sporty bikes were more comfortable across the board.

The Suzuki GSX650F was the most comfortable bike I've been on so far, and the SV-650 was also comfortable, though not as comfortable as the GSX650.

For my body type, I find the Suzuki's to be comfortable across the board (even at 1000cc and up), whereas I found the Yamaha's to be uncomfortable across the board, with the FZ6 being the sole exception.

The Suzuki GSX650F was $6999 new, and despite it being a very nice bike, I still intend to buy used for my first bike. The used bike market seems to be noticeably smaller than the used car market, so finding one of the bikes on my "list" in used form could be a bit trying; but I'm in no rush, and I'm not keen on buying a new motorcycle at this point.

The sales representative at the Suzuki dealer said Honda's generally have a similar body style, so perhaps I'll be able to find a few comfortable Honda's as well. I'll likely check out Honda and Kawasaki dealers as the week progresses.

----- Added the following just now, and it was merged -----

I've been doing some searching and research about Suzuki's and I have a question I was hoping to get some help with...

I found a used 2002 Suzuki GSX-R600. How much different would that be from a GSX650F?

In the link ghoastgirl1 originally posted, the advice presented is that "Honda CBR anything; Kawasaki Ninja ZX anything; Suzuki GSXR anything; Yamaha YZF or FZ anything" are really, really bad bikes for beginners. Yet, the person that wrote the article recommends a Suzuki GS500 as being a valid starter bike.

Does the "R" make that much difference, or is it the 600cc aspect? I felt very comfortable on the GSX650F and gathered it had less low end torque than the SV-650, which ultimately results in needing higher revs to get speed, but I am curious about the difference between a 2002 Suzuki GSX-R600 and a 2007/8 GSX650X.

Realistically, I'd prefer not to drop seven grand on a new bike, but if I can find one a few years older for half that, or better, I'm more likely to consider it, providing it isn't hugely different than the newer model I sat on today.

Thanks!

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cadre

BIG DIFFERENCE! The GSXR is a Super sport bike, meaning you could take it to a track without any mods and keep up just fine. It's also very touchy. Not a good beginner bike. Ever. IMHO

The GSX650 is a decent beginner bike for people who want something a little bigger though I wouldn't recommend it all the time. There's also the GS500 which is similar in styling with a v-twin engine that's a bit smaller.

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Jimellow

Good info regarding the GSXR. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, as it seems like a great bike, but good information nonetheless.

As for the GS500, I suspect that is too small for me. I sat on two 650's at the Suzuki dealer, and there was a 500 beside it. It was noticeably smaller, and I felt I was too big for it.

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surferlove007

Whats are yalls opinions on this bike:
http://collegestation.craigslist.org/mcy/650654973.html

cj2112

They say they're selling it to upgrade to a bigger bike, but keep in mind it's been crashed, and that could be why they're selling it. I'd be worried about bent forks/frame etc. The clear title may just mean they never reported the crash to the insurance company.

There is enough in the ad to make me suspicious.

cadre

From the ad, it looks like a decent bike. However you should keep in mind that it's hard to really tell just from an ad. Do you have someone that knows bikes who you can take with you to look at bikes? That will be helpful since it's hard to spot some problems unless you know what to look like.

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Jimellow

I went to a Honda dealer today, and the Rebels and Shadows felt to small. The CBR600's felt very comfortable, and they also had a YZF600R which seemed to be more of a hybrid that I really liked.

I also got to sit on a Suzuki Katana 600 and really liked it as well.

Thing is, bikes are expensive. If used, it seems to be a crapshoot in terms of finding one without a shady history, and if new, you're spending upwards of $5k even on entry-ish level bikes. I found a promising 2004 SV-650 with under 6,000 miles, and with a few scratches (according to owner), and he was asking $3900. That's about the best deal I've seen, but the used bike market is much smaller, which in my experience, results in less selection and higher prices for the models that are available.

We stopped at a used bike lot on the way back from the Yamaha dealer, and the prices they were asking for used bikes was just ridiculous. One was a Katana, over five years old, that had clearly been put down hard on the side, and the price was over four grand. I've only been seriously looking at bikes for a week or so, and I think that price was ridiculous.

Lastly, I will link the listing for the bike I did find, in the hopes that I might be able to get some feedback. It's a 2004 SV-650 (http://allentown.craigslist.org/mcy/649421387.html), that has some scratches on the muffler and rear grab bar. It had two owners, the most recent acquiring it in a trade for a car, and the original owner working at a bike shop and taking good care of it. The asking price is $3995. I welcome any and all thoughts in regards to this bike, or any aspect of my post.

In my dealer visits I'm being exposed to a lot of really impressive, and expensive bikes. Finding the same bikes in the used market, let alone at a reasonable price, is proving to be a bit of a chore though.

__________________
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surferlove007

I have some friends in Fort Worth who know their bikes. I was just curious what you guys would say after looking at the ad so I know what to scrutinize. I'll most likely take my dad with me when I go see bikes.

samcol

Well, I can say I went with a Buell xb12s as my first bike and tonight its power might have helped me. I was at a stop sign and I saw an SUV coming up way too quickly in my mirror so I tried to get away as fast as possible.

He nailed me and I was pushed about 20 ft. forward even after trying to speed away. Luckily I was unharmed. My bike's license plate was bent and my rear passenger foot pegs were ripped off but that was the worst of it.

I had recently heard of a motorcyclist get hit in a similar situation at 40 mph, so I guess the moral of the story is to check your mirrors when you're stopped and to flash your brakes off and on so you can be more visible.

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surferlove007

Wow! Glad you're alright, I feel for your bike though! I hope you gave those assholes an earfull. I sure would have. I've also been looking into brake lights that flash so people notice them more. I plan to have god awfully gaudy brake lights so people will see me.
My dad had a friend who got sandwiched between a car and SUV because the SUV just plain wasn't paying attention. I hate SUVs because I have nearly been killed by more than one so I'm biased...What happens to the bike now?

samcol

Thanks, the bike still owns most ricers when it comes to cornering or tooling around town :P

As far as the wreck, I really wasn't mad at him at all. I was just glad nobody got hurt. He was more shaken up than I was and agreed to pay for the damages. Parts can be replaced.

Flickering brake lights are a great idea though. I upgraded to brigher lights, but apparently they didn't help in this instance lol...

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cadre

It's not that it's all that hard to find cheap starter bikes, it's that you want a bike that's not really the cheap starter type. If you want to save money, go older. And the CBR600 by the way, is no easier as a first bike than the GSXR. The Katana can work though. And I know a few people who have started on SV650s. But really, these bikes aren't all that much bigger than the Ninja 500 for example. I think you just want a bigger engine and are using your size as an excuse (no offense, it actually happens a lot).

And Samcol, in some cases the brightest lights ever won't make up for a person not paying attention. And since bikes are small, the not paying attention thing can last much longer. Flickering lights can help but they can also confuse people. I'd go with LEDs and just watch your mirrors.

It's a reality of riding on the street, cagers just won't see you sometimes. (Cagers = people in cars)

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Jimellow

I sat on a Ninja 500 yesterday and it was pretty nice. The first Ninja I sat one was much more cramped and uncomfortable, though I didn't get the specifics of the bike. Perhaps it had a smaller frame, or was from a different year, though it seems to be that Ninjas have changed minimally over the years.

I don't think I am necessarily using my size as an excuse.. I have long arms and am a taller guy, and almost every Yamaha I sat on was uncomfortable, whereas the sportier Suzuki's and Honda's were much more comfortable to sit on, and feasibly ride. I'd likely prefer a bigger engine as well, because if I am dropping upwards of four grand on a bike, I'd like it to be something I can grow into instead of out of; and while I'm not cocky or ignorant, I know I'm a very good and observant driver, and that if I did get a bike, I wouldn't drive it like a reckless speed demon solely because I possess the ability to do so. This is mostly driven by the fact that I enjoy life and have no desire to end mine prematurely or become a paraplegic at the cost of being a moron for a few hours on a motorcycle. Accidents are accidents, but one can certainly take means to reduce the odds of this happening. Not buying a bike in the first place is likely a great way of reducing such odds, but at the same time, I think a bike would present a nice change of pace from driving a car every day.

That being said, I've found more uncomfortable sport bikes than I've found comfortable ones, and I credit that to my body type, primarily because I gather that's the primary factor in determining one's comfort on a given bike. The bigger engine sport bikes have proven to be even more uncomfortable for me, because in my experience, they require more leaning, and more weight being put on the hands and lower arms while in the process of riding. Thus, I think a hybrid sport/tourer is going to be ideal for me. Given that I'd prefer riding for more than an hour at a time in comfort, I gather I may not be that interested in a full on sport bike anyway. They look fun, but they don't seem like they would be nearly as comfortable as a bike with a more upright riding position.

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cadre

The comfort thing comes up a lot, but it's about 25/75 with experienced riders. On a sport bike, it usually takes time for one to get used to the position. You should never be supporting yourself by your arms but rather with your back, and that will seem weird but it makes riding more comfortable.

Anyways, the Ninja 500 and 250 were both redesigned this year so I think the frame's a bit bigger but really the main difference was the styling. My point is though, you don't have to drop 4k on a bike. If you're smart about it you can usually spend less than 3. This means, no new bikes, and nothing that's even remotely new unless you wanna go with a small bike like the Blast or the Ninja 500 (which both sell pretty new for 2.5)

Have you looked at cruisers at all? Maybe you'd find them more comfortable.

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Jimellow

What is the oldest (years/age) you think one should go back in terms of buying a used bike?

I sat on a few cruisers, and am not sure if I would be comfortable or not on them. I'm a tall, thin guy, and I think I might be more comfortable, and feel safer, if I were sitting upright and equal to, or above, the handlebars, than below them.

Are there any sort of used motorcycle pricing guides/books that provide some guidance in regards to how much one can expect to pay for a used bike, depending on age, model, miles, etc.? I picked up a Cycle World buyer's guide, but that just reviewed the new models, which is nifty to read, but generally irrelevant to me at this point.

Thanks.

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cadre

Oh I know what would be good for you! Dual sport bikes are often really tall. And by dual sport I mean street/dirt bikes. They're good bikes and can keep up with other bikes just fine but they tend to be like dirt bikes in that they sit higher and maintain that sitting straight up posture.

As far as pricing guides..I don't know of any really. There's KBB and ...I'm blanking on the other one but anyways, those can give you a basis but KBB is always higher than the other one. Hmm..can't think of the name at the moment though.

Then on the how old is too old thing? Well it really depends on the bike and your expertise.

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surferlove007

I'm not planning to spend more than 2Gs on a bike and I'm sticking to that. I've seen several good deals on bikes on craigslist.
Found a course for motorcycle stuff online.
http://www.moto-ed.com/standard.html
I know its not a harley dealer however they seem alright to me. What do you guys think?

cadre

It's hard to tell from a website, but it sounds good. You both should look around www.twowheelforum.com. It's not the best motorcycle forum these days but I bet there's someone from your area that can give you more info than I can. Sorry if that breaks any rules

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surferlove007

Totally new world! I've found two new forums, one specifically for the Buell. Awesome! I'm still going to harass you for information Cadre. :-)

cadre

Sounds good.

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Jimellow

It seems this thread has pretty much died, but I wanted to post a follow-up to my own experiences.

A few days ago I finished the Pennsylvania Motorcycle Safety Program and received my M class license. It was a very worthwhile experience, and without the class, I know I would have crashed my first bike while leaving the lot.

There is a lot going on when riding a motorcycle in an isolated environment, let alone out on the road where there are other cars and careless drivers. I found the course to be very helpful and consider it to be a win, win, win situation. It's free (in PA), they provide the bikes and helmets, and upon completion, you receive your license and likely an insurance savings as well.

As for my first bike, I'm not looking for something new, but instead one that is used and reasonably priced. A 90's Suzuki Katana would be nice, but I found most of the Honda's and Suzuki's I sat on to be quite comfortable; and given the smaller size of the used bike market it's likely best to not be too picky.

I'm really stoked to get a bike and go riding, but am fully aware that there are quite a few careless drivers on the roads that are very capable of ending a rider's life in an instant.

__________________
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Skutch

This thread motivated me to get a new bike. I hadn't ridden in 15 years, 95% offroad. Last week I bought a 2007 Honda XR650L, a dual-purpose bike that is a street legal dirt bike. I figured I would start on the street with something familiar. It has been both a frightening and exhilirating experience to ride on the street, something I've never done before. One's senses are bombarded with stimuli, from that of the bike itself and also the street environment.



Buells are cool bikes. After I have a few thousand miles on the street, I'm going to give some thought to a Buell streetbike, perhaps something from the Lightning series. The styling of these bikes is amazing. I will also look at the Triumph Tiger and Street Triple 675 and the Ducati Monster.

I was recommended a book on motorcycling that is highly regarded in motorcycling communities as a source of insight into riding safely and enjoyably on the street.

surferlove007

BUMP

Still looking into getting a buell, just waiting for the money to flow in. Should be getting my first paycheck ina few days to start saving! Woo!

Skutch

Someone remarked to me today at a Harley dealership that there's never been an American-made dirtbike, ever. What a thing to hear. Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha. One relatively tiny island in the Pacific Ocean has sold millions upon millions of dirtbikes around the world while the US and Britain haven't made or sold a single one. Right now in America there are untold numbers of people in urban and rural areas riding and racing Japanese dirtbikes and atvs because there is no American Dirtbike. Even Sweden makes dirtbikes.

What is up with that?