Lexus or Mercedes?

[sadatx]

I am helping a friend out in her efforts to buy a car. At the moment she is looking to get a used (certified preowned) Lexus IS or a Mercedes C230.

She likes the look of the Mercedes better, but has heard better things about the Lexus as far as reliability is concerned. She's concerned about the look of the car because she often has to drive clients around for work.

So her price range is around $30,000 to $40,000. I guess I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the cheaper Lexus' and Mercedes. Which one is better? Is there a better option other than these two companies I'm not thinking of?

[DEI37]

Between those two, the Lexus is the better choice. Acura makes a decent car, too. I'm a domestic kind of guy, so I'd rather pick up a Cadillac CTS, but that's just me.

[jorgelito]

I think Lexus are rated #1 in consumer satsfaction and reliability. Mercedes has gone done a bit in quality I believe.

[DEI37]

Just thinking, at that price range, a NEW CTS is probably in range.

[Ch'i]

Porsche if you can .

Between those two I would go with Mercedes. Lexus is more like a classy Toyota. Mercedes is much higher quality all the way around, but it will be a little more pricy when it comes to repairs.

[Sage]

absloutely the Lexus. Martel's father has owned both Lexus and Mercedes (trades for a new car every six months), and the Lexus is FAR better as far as reliability and such. Lexus is also owned by Toyota, who is #1 in reliability in the car market. Mercedes still has good quality cars, but you don't get those until you hit the $50K+ range. A cheap Mercedes is like buying your clothes at Wal-Mart... they might be the same style as more pricy items, but they ain't gonna last nearly as long!

[Willravel]

If we were talking about equal models, then I'd say to get a Mercedes any day of the week, but the IS is a sports model. The C230 is not a sports model, it's a poor man's Mercedes. A comparable model to the IS in the Mercedes lineup would be the CL 55 AMG or something.

Go with the IS.

[Elphaba]

We had a Mercedes; maintenance wise I recommend the Lexus. You can check the two for overall performance at Consumer Reports, and I would insist that you do that before taking our opinions as fact.

CR Advocate,
Pen

[Willravel]

In all seriousness, get a BMW. The last generation 3 series are freaking beatiful cars. Certified pre-owned BMW 3-series really are the perfect cars.

[Ch'i]

Didn't notice the lexus was an IS model . In that case, go with the lexus.

I absolutely love BMW's. Being the owner of one, I can tell you that they handle better than any car I've ever driven. Not to mention they are gorgous cars (save for some of the newer models). A great suggestion willravel.

[macmanmike6100]

the c-class mercs are worth avoiding, especially in this case when you have the IS to compare with. reliability is a major issue, plus the c-class is kind of a cop out: really skimpy on luxury, although that's a matter of taste.

[BadNick]

In the used car market and in the price range you mentioned, you could get a larger, nicer, more spacious, more luxury oriented Lexus like a GS300. That's what I'd go for.

[newtx]

I think the Lexus would be a better choice. I would locate and drive an Infinity G35. I would pick the G35. (a real blast to drive)

[magictoy]

Lexus. The last reliability report I saw had Lexus way up there, and both Mercedes and BMW much lower. I can see why, since I also read that the new BMWs have over 200 motors in each car. That would keep you busy, once the car is out of warranty.

My mechanic told me that after 1997, both Mercedes and BMW got so electronically complicated that repairs in most cases must be done at the dealer.

And we know what that means.

[BadNick]

Besides the GS300 and that series of Lexus' I mentioned above, I've noticed that there are a LOT of ES300 series Lexus cars on the used car market, maybe since they are popular for lease. But one of the main dealers around here has at least a dozen, probably more, slightly used ES300's and the ES models go for quite a bit less money than the GS, and they are also a very nice car, substantially larger interior space than the IS, and I think more "appropriate" if you are using it in business to haul customers/clients around. While I originally thought of the ES as just a Lexus jazzed up version of the Camry, it is really a more substantial car than any Camry though built on the same chassis.

[Scorps]

Well when you think about who owns who here.. Toyota owns Lexus so a Lexus will last for ever, and well Benz mergered with Chrysler. I have heard Benz has gone to crap after joining Chrysler and I would tke Lexus over a benz anyday. I test drove a 98 Lexus Gs400 2 years ago..omg what I damn nice ride and the 400HP didn't hurt

Might want to look into Infinity also...G35 a.k.a. Nissan Skyline.

[athletics]

Mercedes. Hands down.

The C is a great car. It is more comfortable than the BMW and looks better than the Lexus, inside and out. The Benz has no orange or yellow lighting on the inside. Pearl white. It is class.

MB had some issues over the last years, trying to stay competitive and compromised their quality over parts, not on purpose, but they are back to European parts and not Indian ones. Stupid move, they have corrected it.

Reliability wise, the IS is in its first year and having troubles that most Lexi don't have. They will work this out, but it is nothing serious.

If the C class is the poor mans Mercedes...what does that make the IS?

And to the guy who tried to compare the IS with any AMG, he does not know what he is talking about. There are a lot of incorrect things on this page, but that is the winner.

Go Mercedes. It is a great car. And if it matters to the buyer (and if they say it doesn't then I don't believe them) no one ever says...'oooooh, you got a Lexus?!?!?' A Merc is class, even the C.

Let me say this, the BMW is a great car, you either like the new body style or you don't.

Overall, I like them all. They are fantastic, MB, Lexus, BMW, and maybe Infiniti. If you are dropping that kind of cash on a car, you have to wake up in 3 years and still love it. Nail it down to two, then pick the one that looks the best to you.

[goddfather40]

I've had a Lexus for about 3 years now, a 2004 IS300 and it's been nothing short of spectacular. The handling, the interior, the engine have all been fabulous. I used to put a lot of miles on it when I commuted 90+ miles a day, so it has about 75K on it. Not one issue what so ever. In fact, my front brake pads are finally going out just now!

As for those who claim the Lexus is just an overpriced Toyota, please read the following article:
http://detnews.com/2004/specialrepor.../a15-70498.htm

That article details the difference in quality control that Lexus maintains even above and beyond the already stringent Toyota protocol.

Also I beg to differ on the "WOW" factor with a Lexus. While I do agree that a Benz will attract more attention, a Lexus will still certainly have a great deal of admiration from other people. I have always gotten a nice reaction when people find out I drive a Lexus.

Of course, I can not say anything too bad about a Benz because I have never owned or even driven one. I personally do not like the look of the cars, but you will probably be very happy either way. I just wanted to share my Lexus experience.

[athletics]

Originally Posted by willravel

If we were talking about equal models, then I'd say to get a Mercedes any day of the week, but the IS is a sports model. The C230 is not a sports model, it's a poor man's Mercedes. A comparable model to the IS in the Mercedes lineup would be the CL 55 AMG or something.

Go with the IS.

This guy is wrong.

MB CL 55 AMG 493 hp supercharged 5.5L V-8
Lexus IS250 204 hp 2.5L V6

The C230 is performance wise, equal to the Lexus IS 250.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by athletics

This guy is wrong.

MB CL 55 AMG 493 hp supercharged 5.5L V-8
Lexus IS250 204 hp 2.5L V6

The C230 is performance wise, equal to the Lexus IS 250.

This guy is much wronger.

When you compare the relativity of each company, the top Lexus model being the SC (I guess), having 288 hp v8, vs the top Merc being the SL600 AMG (without entering supercar territory, and I figure it's comparable) having 510 hp v12, well you see that Lexus and Mercedes don't have an equal footing based on horsepower alone. As a matter of fact, they don't have equal footing in anything. Quality, price, power, amenities, etc. They are two different companies with two very different product lines.

Let's see where we're at as of 2006:
C230: dead bottom of the Mercedes barrel. 2.5l v6 making about 200 hp. MSRP: $30,000

IS350: sport compact of Lexus, not the bottom by any means. 3.5l V6 that makes 306 hp. MSRP: $36,000

[athletics]

Originally Posted by willravel

This guy is much wronger.

When you compare the relativity of each company, the top Lexus model being the SC (I guess), having 288 hp v8, vs the top Merc being the SL600 AMG (without entering supercar territory, and I figure it's comparable) having 510 hp v12, well you see that Lexus and Mercedes don't have an equal footing based on horsepower alone. As a matter of fact, they don't have equal footing in anything. Quality, price, power, amenities, etc. They are two different companies with two very different product lines.

Let's see where we're at as of 2006:
C230: dead bottom of the Mercedes barrel. 2.5l v6 making about 200 hp. MSRP: $30,000

IS350: sport compact of Lexus, not the bottom by any means. 3.5l V6 that makes 306 hp. MSRP: $36,000

How are the two cars you say as being equal, even close to the same? Again...

MB CL 55 AMG 493 hp supercharged 5.5L V-8
Lexus IS250 204 hp 2.5L V6

[powerclown]

I read the AMG/IS comparsion too, and thought nobody would notice or care.

willravel, not sure what your point is here. Are you saying the AMG CL55 is comparable to the Lexus I-class? If so, I don't see how this is possible. For one thing, the 55 is a coupe so rear passengers are a bad idea. It also seems like athletics was comparing the C230 to the IS250, not 350. Even then, I don't see any comparison between an AMG CL55 and a Lexus IS350.

As for the OP, my choice would be an Infiniti G35x. Much bigger car than either the C230 or IS. The 2007 G35, in particular, is a complete redesign inside and out, and it's awesome. A ton of car for the money.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by athletics

How are the two cars you say as being equal, even close to the same? Again...

MB CL 55 AMG 493 hp supercharged 5.5L V-8
Lexus IS250 204 hp 2.5L V6

Because Lexus and Mercedes are not equal companies. Imagine that I were to compare the Kia motor corporation to the Porsche motor corporation. Now if I were to compare the base models that each of those companies produced, the Rio and the Boxter, one is obviously better than the other, BUT THEY ARE BOTH THE BASE MODELS OF THE RESPECTIVE COMPANIES. They are equatable because of the position they fill in the companies lineup. Do you understand? Obviously, the 55 AMG is faster than the IS250, but they fill the same position in their respective companies: the sport model. If I were to compare Lexus to Mercedes in a luxary catagory, I would probably say the Lexus LS 430 vs the Mercedes S600. Are these cars of the same quality? Shit no, but they do fill the same roles in their respective companies: that of the top luxary model.

Originally Posted by powerclown

As for the OP, my choice would be an Infiniti G35x. Much bigger car than either the C230 or IS. The 2007 G35, in particular, is a complete redesign inside and out, and it's awesome. A ton of car for the money.

I'd also take the G35 over the IS or the C230. It's one of the best looking cars ever made, it's damn powerful, and it is larger.

[Scorps]

The IS 300 has so much aftermarket parts

[Ilow]

If your friend is really interested in certified pre-owned and really wants to spend between $30-40k, then both the IS and C230 are lower than she should probably be setting her sights. That is you could realistically get either of those new for that money, or get something better pre-owned for the same amount.
For the record, this thread has certainly worked people up pretty well and it seems to be centering around the possible apples to oranges issue. If you clarified which IS it would be useful, perhaps, as an IS350 is far superior to a C230 (either the 4cyl Komp or the 6 cyl) but the IS250 is not (IMHO, of course).

[sadatx]

Ilow, she's looking at the IS250, for clarification.

I should also point out that she'd rather spend right around $30,000 and no more if she's going to get one of the cheaper Lexus' or Mercedes.

I know the IS is generally considered to be a more reliable car, but she really doesn't like the look of it and much prefers the look of the Mercedes.

I should also point out that it would be a stretch but she would spend around $40,000 if she could find a good deal on a used Lexus SC convertible that wasn't too old. That car she loves the look and feel of, but finding one for that price isn't easy.

[politicophile]

For some unexplained reason, TFP is extremely hostile to Audi, but I've thoroughly enjoyed my (admittedly brief) exposure to them. You should suggest you friend at least look at an A4 before making a purchase.

I also second Will's suggestion of a BMW 3 Series. I loved them before the redesign and they've only gotten better. Out of MB, Lexus, Audi, and BMW, the BMW easily takes the styling cake. My $0.02

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by politicophile

For some unexplained reason, TFP is extremely hostile to Audi, but I've thoroughly enjoyed my (admittedly brief) exposure to them. You should suggest you friend at least look at an A4 before making a purchase.

I like Audis, but I did get am Audi Quattro lemon a few months back. I ended up selling it back to the dealership. I might buy from them again, if I knew I was getting something that didn't require more maintenence than a high school cheerleader.

Originally Posted by politicophile

I also second Will's suggestion of a BMW 3 Series. I loved them before the redesign and they've only gotten better. Out of MB, Lexus, Audi, and BMW, the BMW easily takes the styling cake. My $0.02

You can get a brand new 335i for around $40k.

Here is a 2001 BMW M5 for $40k.

Here is a 2003 M3 Convertable for $38k.

Here is a 2002 M Coupe for $39,500. These are rare, and are comparable to the Porsche GT-3 in the fun-to-drive catagory.

[powerclown]

Originally Posted by willravel

I like Audis, but I did get am Audi Quattro lemon a few months back. I ended up selling it back to the dealership. I might buy from them again, if I knew I was getting something that didn't require more maintenence than a high school cheerleader.

I've heard the same exact thing about Audis...reliability issues. What year/model was your Audi? Did you buy it used? What was the problem(s) with your particular car?

Agree with the BMW props. Driver's cars, different driving experience from Lexus and the low-end Mercedes.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by powerclown

I've heard the same exact thing about Audis...reliability issues. What year/model was your Audi? Did you buy it used? What was the problem(s) with your particular car?

A6, 4.2L, Quattro, Trip-tronic (as I call it). The issue was probably with a bad gasket, according to them. The stupid thing acted like a Ford Escrt with 100k miles. It was covered under warentee, so they fixed it, then the water pump (the brand new one) went. Then the damn radiator. It was like being in college again. Mind you, this is a $50k+ car. The guys at the dealership were really nice, but I heard "I've never seen anything like this" one too many times. They were nice enough to tkae it back, and I only took a small loss. I suspect they took it back because they knew it was going to cost a shitload to repair again and again.

I don't know if my experience was typical of Audis, though. They could be really reliable, and I just got the rare lemon.

[BadNick]

Originally Posted by sadatx

Ilow, she's looking at the IS250, for clarification......if she could find a good deal on a used Lexus SC convertible that wasn't too old. That car she loves the look and feel of, but finding one for that price isn't easy.

To me this comment says she really hasn't even defined what KIND of car she wants/needs. If she needs to carry work related clients around then an SC is ludicrous. Sure, maybe she would like a two seat sports car, but you can't carry clients around in it ...unless you mean a client with little or no baggage.

When people ask about or are looking for a car, IMO you must define not only a price range, but what kind of vehicle you can live with. If the entire spectrum of car types are open for selection, we can start this whole thread over again.

[athletics]

Originally Posted by willravel

Because Lexus and Mercedes are not equal companies. Imagine that I were to compare the Kia motor corporation to the Porsche motor corporation. Now if I were to compare the base models that each of those companies produced, the Rio and the Boxter, one is obviously better than the other, BUT THEY ARE BOTH THE BASE MODELS OF THE RESPECTIVE COMPANIES. They are equatable because of the position they fill in the companies lineup. Do you understand? Obviously, the 55 AMG is faster than the IS250, but they fill the same position in their respective companies: the sport model. If I were to compare Lexus to Mercedes in a luxary catagory, I would probably say the Lexus LS 430 vs the Mercedes S600. Are these cars of the same quality? Shit no, but they do fill the same roles in their respective companies: that of the top luxary model.

Then you should of compared the IS250 with the C230. Very similar cars. If not, show me the comparison between the two and how they are different.

And if you disagree, exactly what category does the Lexus IS250 fill in the Lexus lineup and the C230 in the Merc?

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by athletics

Then you should of compared the IS250 with the C230. Very similar cars. If not, show me the comparison between the two and how they are different.

And if you disagree, exactly what category does the Lexus IS250 fill in the Lexus lineup and the C230 in the Merc?

IS = sport compact, most HP in the company, designed to try and compete with BMW
C230 = cheapest car in the company, actually designed to be less expensive, designed to compete with cheaper cars like the Civic, Golf, etc.

[athletics]

Originally Posted by willravel

IS = sport compact, most HP in the company, designed to try and compete with BMW
C230 = cheapest car in the company, actually designed to be less expensive, designed to compete with cheaper cars like the Civic, Golf, etc.

The IS250 has 204 hp. It is also the cheapest Lexus. Did you know the IS250 and C230 are in the same price range?

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by athletics

The IS250 has 204 hp. It is also the cheapest Lexus. Did you know the IS250 and C230 are in the same price range?

So it's the IS250, now. Okay. I'm still trying to figure out why we're arguing.

[athletics]

Originally Posted by willravel

So it's the IS250, now. Okay. I'm still trying to figure out why we're arguing.

Yeah, it always has been the IS250.

[qtpye4u84]

I think the IS300 is so sexy in black MMMMmmm when I see that car it makes me wanna ^%$^$^$ some thing lol I love the tinted windows the smooth lines.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by athletics

Yeah, it always has been the IS250.

It was clarified until post #26.

I still say that the IS and the C230 fall short of a decent BMW. That's my reccomendation.

[RogueHunter65]

I would say go for the Mercedes. Their cars have so much more style than Lexus.

People say that Lexus' are more reliable but my last two cars have been Mercedes (an E320 and SLK230) and I never had a problem with either of them.

A Lexus is a nice car but it doesn’t quite compare. If you tell someone you have a Lexus they say nice, if you tell someone you have a Mercedes they say wow. I like hearing “wow that’s a sweet car”.

[Lindy]

Originally Posted by BadNick

To me this comment says she really hasn't even defined what KIND of car she wants/needs. If she needs to carry work related clients around then an SC is ludicrous. Sure, maybe she would like a two seat sports car, but you can't carry clients around in it ...unless you mean a client with little or no baggage . . . what kind of vehicle you can live with. If the entire spectrum of car types are open for selection, we can start this whole thread over again.

Agreed, BadNick. I think all we can tell for certain is that she wants something with some kind of a prestige label. No Ford, Buick, Toyota or Nissan nameplate for sadatx's friend. She doesn't even sound informed, or like any kind of auto enthusiast. She just wants a nice "upscale" car.
First, I want to COMPLIMENT HER on wanting a car---and not being another truck lemming.
Second, I'm going to be a bit of an iconoclast here and suggest that she get something nice, but where she won't be seeing herself at every traffic light and on ramp. A nice cult or niche car. How about a SAAB 9-5 or a Volvo S-80 sedan or XC-70 wagon? Cars that are distinctive, well-built and safe, with good performance. And an adult can actually get in the back seat.
People always seem to pan these cars--when they have never owned one. Did anybody else even think of these alternatives? Not for what you'd buy for yourself, but for sadatx's friend. Or, if she can live with a more plebian nameplate--a Nissan Maxima.

Lindy

I'd mention Audi also, but my brother-in-law bought one a few years ago, that was very unreliable, from a dealer that never seemed to have the parts. So even under warranty, it spent a lot of time sitting at the dealership--about 60 miles away. My sister took to calling it "Hitler's revenge."