Race issues
 

What is your opinion on innerracial ( don't know if thats one word or two) dating? Where I live (Montana), its sometimes frowned upon. Any advice/opinions would be awesome! :D

My opinion is that I don't care what color someone is, so I don't care if two differently colored people date. I don't find that color or physical appearance or racial background has any bearing on the worth of an individual person.

Doesn't worry me I judge people on how they treat me, not what they look like. We have many races in Australia , too many to worry about it. If you are attracted to someone the only thing that should stop you is if they are free to be attracted to you.

I remember the first time my sister brought home a black guy to the house, and how controversial that felt, judging by the reactions. My mom's very accepting of things like that, but I recall that it was the first time that I heard my grandmother voice her obviously racial viewpoints. I was like "god, how can my sweet little grandma be such a biggot".

I adore women regardless, and if she's a different race, then thats just nice spice. Then if someone gives me a hard time over it, I'll either laugh at them or beat their ass, depending on the situation.

My opinion is that the 'race' is a fabrication with no real biological underpinnings and the less notice people take of it the better...

So you could say I think interracial dating is plain old dating...

Objections to interracial dating are based on ignorance, pure and simple. Race is a purely arbitrary construct generated by fear of difference.

Since my wife is half Chinese/half German via her Jamaican/Chinese mother, and my daughter is 1/4 Chinese ancestry, and my sister in law is black, my other sister in law is East Indian, and my uncle is Jewish, I think you can all guess where I stand!

:)

But isn't there biological differences between caucasians and asian, for example? Facial features, skin tone, height...all biological.

Categorizing people isnt necessarily a bad thing, it's using this categorization to discriminate people in a negative way thats the problem.

i've done it...but only in places where it was already fairly common...so i won't pretend to be a pioneer.

it will be an issue...so be ready, up front to talk about it, and deal with it. know how public you're going to be, and in what settings....an SO and I would be seen holding hands at some malls and not others...just the way that we ended up dealing with some of the crap that came up.

being an interracial married couple I deal with it every so often in certain parts of town. It's not outright in my face but if I look at the right times I can catch Asian women looking scronfully at my wife as we hold hands walking down the street.

I've always dated white women and never wanted to be with any asian girls.

IMO who cares... they don't have to sleep with me.

How do I deal with it... I ignore them and whatever business they happen to be in, read my sig.

The comments that follow here in the south usually come after the couple has left the room. In other words, do it, if you don't care what people who are already damaged think of you. I think few people would actually be in your face about it.

Yes there is a biological difference, but its not sufficient to make two different races incompatible. It's like in dogs. A basset hound and a St. Bernard are very different looking dogs, but they're still the same species.

differential race views were invented by small minded idiots who wanted an excuse to elevate themselves.

I have no problem whatsoever with interracial dating. I do remember I had a roommate for about a month who, when we first moved in, asked "there seems to be a lot of interracial couples, is that not looked down upon here?". Probably one of the most bigoted people I've ever met, fortunately he was fired and now we have an awesome roommate. I'd say speaking a different native language is a larger barrier than what someone looks like.

I must emphatically disagree with these assessments...

As the late and great anthropologist Frank B. Livingston once wrote: "There are no races, there are only clines."

The point is twofold. First of all, there is no genetic difference between the races, it has been found in fact that a 'caucasian' can have more genetic commonality with a person with black skin than another person of their so called race. The cheif difference is phenotypic, that is how those genes are expressed...

Though phenotypic expression is to some measure a 'biological difference', the second point is that the racial categories have no real purchase in their division of humanity. For instance, there are people living in South Africa, such as Nelson Mandela who have less melanin in their skin than people living in southern Italy. Similarly, in places like East Timor, people have what are generally called 'asian' features, such as straight black hair, but also have very dark skin. In short, no matter which particular set of attributes you decide to label a 'race', there is nowhere to draw the line, no set of people who fit that label easily. If you go by skin colour, hair, eyes, bone structure or any combination of these, there are people on earth who will not fit into the categorisation.

As an anthropologist, I just have to say Rock On with yo bad self, Kostya. You beat me to it. :thumbsup:

I think most of you already know this, but my mom is Thai, dad was Icelandic, and they met as immigrants in America. My current boyfriend is Lebanese, so I guess I am keeping in line with the exogamous (marrying outside one's group) tradition in my family. :lol: So I don't give a rat's ass about who you're dating, as long as you love each other well.

We are all human beings, all originally from Africa, Olduvai Gorge to be exact (if you go by the oldest humanoid skeletons). Everything that came after that... race, ethnicity, etc... is all something that humans constructed to separate "us" from "them." Yes, there are minor biological differences, but ... see what Kostya wrote. Those differences were mostly likely only in response to environmental selection pressures, which we no longer really deal with in this day and age.

Well, that may be the case for some people (I've often heard people say they won't date someone who doesn't share the same native tongue), but for me, it don't mean a thing. I grew up as the only native English speaker in my entire family, so I have no problem dating someone whose English is his third (and VERY fluent) language. We speak five languages between the two of us... I love it. :D

Basically, my philosophy is that differences are what you make of 'em, not what other people make of 'em. You have to decide what's important to you, and stick to your guns. I like Cyn's sig: either you're an asshole, or you're not. :)

Note that in my post I never said genetic. I said biological. There is a difference.

And I really don't place much stock in genetics as a means to determine whether races are different or not. After all, there's only about a 4% or so difference between human DNA and chimpanzee DNA. It's only logical that there would be an insignificant difference even if there were one between races.

However, if there were no biological difference between races, then there would be no biological mechanism to continue the recognizeable features of the different races. This means that a caucasian couple would have just as good of a chance of giving birth to an asian baby as they would a caucasian baby. Since this clearly doesn't happen, there must be a biological component to the races.

However, as I pointed out, this doesn't matter at all. There is also a biological difference between green eyed and blue eyed people. But in the grand scheme of things it simply doesn't matter.

The only place race should be a factor is in medical treatment, since it's been shown that some races respond differently to certain treatments than others - this also, btw, points to the biological component of race.

You said you took exception with my post, but you failed entirely to address any of the points of my post. What exactly did you not like about it?

I'll leave the assessment part to others, I'm just doing a laymans observation here regarding the obvious differences in biological asthetic features between people of different races. Asians, hispanic, caucasians...all have distinquishing characterics in their looks which make them special. Where things go wrong is when people attempt to use racial discriminations to justify inequality.

I for one relish the differences between us, as it makes the human race more interesting in my eyes. Different is cool.

Kick over the melting pot!

The schools I grew up in had a very low percentage of non-caucasian students. It was very uncommon to see interracial couples and I have the feeling it was looked down upon. I was very shy and never dated anyone during those years, so I don't have any personal experience with it. As an adult, if 2 people love each other and are good to each other, I do not think it matters if they have physical differences. It is a shame what some couples have to go through when they are so deeply in love with each other. There are too many closed-minded people out there.

I've dated women of other races. If you find somebody you get along with, great, no matter what the color. The only issue is how much you care about what _other_ people think.

I did have some cultural issues with one ex-girlfriend of a different skin color. But you can get cultural issues of that magnitude without different-colored skin. It's just ethnic differences, but people put more (too much) emphasis on such differences when they belongs to someone with a different skin color.

variety is definitely the spice of life! I say enjoy your spice. Let people frown upon if they wish, don't let them subtract from your experience. Who cares what strangers think? You will never see them again.

The fact that people from Montana think this way does not surprise me a bit. I work with a lot of people from Montana and they look at me like I'm an ailen. Just becasue I don't look like them. Self centered bastards. They need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that different types of people also live in the world.

That's Montana talking right there. And that's your problem too. You need to stop catagorizing people period. He's race A, she's race B. It's all bullshit. Date whomever you want.

Except for the medical exception I mentioned above, I agree with you completely. We had a rip-roarin' fight going on in another thread about a colorblind society. Could have used you in there ;)

You cannot categorize everyone from Montana that way. I could say the same about Washington. You can run into people in every state that are going to be racist.

I am from Montana and I do not look at other races as if they are "aliens". I see no difference. We are all human beings so it should not matter one bit who you want to date. It is your choice. If you get along with someone and they treat you good and show you respect then what does the color of their skin matter?

You're right, one cannot label every person that way. But I'm right when I say that if you're from Montana and you have an open mind about other cultures, then you're in the minority.

There's no problem with interracial dating, it's when these couples have children that problems come up. The best an interracial child can hope for is that they resemble one of their parent's races enough to easily "pass" themselves off as one. Otherwise, they're screwed (and in many cases will still be screwed, but just not as much).

No, whats bullshit is covering your eyes to the spectrum of diversity which makes the human race interesting. Fuck the melting pot.

And yes, I date whomever I want. That she's originally from Thailand only adds interesting spice.

You can have a culturally diverse outlook on people without worrying about their race. If someone's from jamaica you can appreciate his culture without drawing conclusions about him just because he's black. There is a big difference between colorblind and cultural sterilization.

I actually find interracial dating a turn on. No, really.

I like it, there's so much more to learn about another person's culture. It's fascinating.

What?! Unless you are actually a product of interracial dating, I suggest you not post such things. My parents were a biracial couple, and I love being what I am. I have never felt "screwed" as a result.. I feel that my blending makes me more beautiful and unique, not some kind of half-breed. My SO is also from a different background (Arab), and if we have kids, you can bet that they won't be "screwed," either.

Why the hell would anyone want to be homogenous, now that's MY question!! :lol:

i know a good number of montanans, but none of them fit your description of the majority,

Grace and I never had a problem with the race thing when we were in California, and only occasionally with the lesbian thing. I think it's mostly that when faced with a homosexual couple, race becomes mostly a secondary concern.

When visiting Hawaii, we've encountered just the opposite, at least in Grace's village; her being gay doesn't seem to bother people, but that I'm white does bother a small number of them a lot.

Where we are now, in a suburb of a southern college town, we're still feeling out how much public affection might draw too much negative attention and where. I doubt the race thing will come up, as white/Asian doesn't seem to even be considered interracial here, and certainly nobody looks twice at the white guy / Asian girl (mostly Vietnamese and Korean here; back home it was mostly Chinese and Japanese) couples we see about. We're new here, though, so maybe I'm missing a bit.

Gilda

My mother is white, my father is black. I hope that's interracial enough for you. It has nothing to do with liking yourself, it has to do with people's immediate need to label others. Many people that are considered attractive are multi-racial, and many people find those of multiracial appearance to be quite attractive. But that doesn't lessen the fact that as someone of mixed heritage, you are forever an outsider. My skin is nowhere light enough to be identified as white, but my hair isn't kinky enough nor my skin dark enough to be able to pass for full black. And I know any child I father will more than likely have the same problems (especially since I tend to be most attracted to asian women).

Again, it's nothing inherently wrong with interracial couples, or their offspring. But more than likely they will face difficulty being able to assimilate into either of their parents' cultures. Unless they are fortunate enough to have features that allow them to "pass" for one or the other.

edit-changed a stupid mistake

Regarding the bi-racial thing: Grace is multi-racial, Japanese father and (mostly) Polynesian (native Hawaiian) mother. She says it's seldom an issue of any kind, and never had any problem fitting in with either her father's or her mother's families, at least not in Hawaii. She isn't accepted as Japanese fully when she's visited there with her father because her facial features and skin tone are both off in a way that stands out to other Japanese, though not to most whites.

Gilda

Ah DAMMIT, EDIT AGAIN, THIS IS ABAYA POSTING: Once again Abaya is taking over her boyfriend, ktspktsp's, account by accident... I am staying at his place and keep forgetting to log him out. Damn, I apologize. So the following is NOT posted by ktspktsp, but by Abaya.

I realize this was a typo, but what did you mean to say?... which parent is which ethnicity?

I understand that you feel like an outsider. But for me personally, I just feel like saying, so what? Why would I *want* to assimilate into one of my parent's cultures? Why not be happy with what I have and who I am, without having to become part of one grand ethnic group or the other.

I wouldn't like belonging to one ethnic group; I find it restricting. As it is, whenever I am around Thai or Icelandic people, I know they probably don't think of me as "their own," and I've become quite fine with that. I am happy to just be an American who is half-whatever to them. If they don't see me as a whole person, that's their problem. Like I said, I think it's way cooler to be heterogeneous than homogeneous. Hybrid vigor, baby. ;)

Personally, I think it's great that my parents were open enough to each other that they didn't worry so much about how I would be received. I feel the same way about my kids; whatever people might say about them doesn't matter, because I know they would be whole human beings, not halves or quarters based on their parents' ethnicity.

Fixed the typo, father is black, mother white.

Again, it doesn't have to do with how you youself feel, it's more a problem with how others will recieve you. People need to label things, so you will be instantly labelled into one group or the other. But that group won't fully accept you either, because you are different. Unless you can fully pass for one, and keep secret your multiracial identity.

In an ideal world that would be enough, but this world is far from ideal. You will not always be able to protect your children from the outside world-they will have to interact with others and will face these problems. It's unfortunate, but true. And any interracial couple should also consider what thier children will have to deal with. It's no different than parents who have genes that can pass on harmful effects to their children-these people also have to weigh the positives and negatives of having a child because of the risk of defect. And in the case of an interracial couple, the "defect" isn't one that is innate, but one placed upon multiracial people by society.

Again, a lot of this will also depend on where you live. There are a lot of places that are more tolerant of racial integration, and aren't overly hung up on race. But these places are few and far between.

A nigger is to african americans as white trash is to caucasions.

Black culture in this country, propogated by rap, entertainment industry, the drug trade, etc, has caused a lot of black guys to come up thinking only about their pride well being, and it makes some people in our 'old white man' society uncomfortable.

If the guy has class, he's got class. If he doesn't he doesn't. That's how I base my judgement on interracial or non-interracial relationships alike.

Well, maybe this is where our differences are coming from. I was born and raised in Seattle, quite possibly one of the more tolerant cities in America (San Francisco is higher on the scale, I think). Now, of course it's not perfect, and we have racial issues like most other urban areas on the country. But I noticed a big difference when I moved to the east coast. Ethnicity is palpable; you notice it everywhere around you here, whereas in Seattle things are significantly more integrated and it's cool to be ethnic, or even half-ethnic.

I still think that an interethnic couple having a "mixed" child doesn't need to think, "Hm, should we even have this child, because no one will accept him?" If they live in that hostile of an area, they should move, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have children. If they were carriers of a genetic disease, well okay, then you should consider not having children. But ethnicity is not a genetic "problem." I think interethnic couples should have whatever children they want, and if the people around them don't like it.. fuck 'em, and teach your children to say "fuck off" to them, too. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but really, I don't understand why it matters so much what other people's labels are?...

/sorry if this is a threadjack, I hope it's still relevant?

I'd say it's pretty much impossible to not categorize people. How can you not notice somebody's race or gender?

As another TFP member said in a previous post:

I'm a white man, and this would be immediately obvious to anyone who saw me. Why should we criticize people for noticing something as obvious as my race and gender, as long as they don't try to kill me or vandalize my car (or violate my individual rights in some other manner) because of it?

As far as relationships are concerned; who we choose to date is nobody else's business so long as all parties involved in the relationship are consenting adults.

Obviously you're going to see that a black man has differently colored skin than a white man. The thing we need to all realize, though, is that it just doesn't matter.

We see brown eyed people and blue eyed people all the time, but we don't go attributing prejudicial notions to either eye color. But we still say things like "you have really nice blue eyes," etc.


We have achieved an eye-color-blind society, by which I mean we see the color but it just doesn't matter as far as our evaluation of the person's worth.

Now we need to work on other bodypart coloration issues, namely skin.