ShaniFaye

I really wish I could understand the thinking behind statements like "marriage isnt important" or "what difference really, and practically, does being married make" but I just can't.

maybe Im not understanding the meaning behind those statements, but I find it extremely wrong to say marriage is not important or practical. I also dont understand the knocking the "making it public" part. To me the day you get married is a joyous time to be shared by your loved ones and friends who support you in different aspects of your life. I said it before my wedding and having just been thru it, I will say it again. Standing before my friends and family and declaring my life intent to Dave is something I would never have considered NOT doing because it was important to me as, as Charlatan said

1) a public declaration of committment.
2) a celebration of said committment.

but then I guess people who dont find marriage important probably wouldnt understand that way of thinking anymore than I understand theirs

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Sue

I'm an old-fashioned kinda gal. I'd like for the guy to propose to me.

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Teg yw edrych tuag adref.

little_tippler

Shani, in response to your post above:

I never said anything about marriage being practical. I said what difference does it make in one's life apart from a mental committment, as in it doesn't, or shouldn't make a difference in practical terms - the normal course of one's everyday life within a meaningful and intimate relationship.

I don't mean to cause offence with those statements, not at all. I'm sorry if you read them that way. You seem to have been very hurt by the suggestion that marriage isn't important to everyone, but I think that it's good that people nowadays can have different views on the subject and that it's not obligatory to be married to someone you have a romantic and sexual relationship with anymore.

When I say that marriage isn't important, I mean that it shouldn't be important - it should never be the be-all and end-all in a relationship, like was referred to in the original ladies' lounge thread. Far from it to say that if you took vows with someone in a celebratory ceremony that I would say that's not an important event in your life. I am also not knocking the "making it public" aspect. I'm saying that isn't so important to me - and that ultimately the commitment you make when you say vows or marry, is between you and your partner utmost, and the public side of it is secondary - IMO. I say this because I know people who have married and have had very much a wedding for the people outside their relationship, and have to cut friends off their guest list to accommodate their parents' friends and things like this. Marriage is a celebration, but you don't need hundreds of guests - just those who matter.

At the end of the day, I have a different opinion to your on marriage - and I'm entitled to that. It could never be something so central in my relationship that I would consider it offensive if my SO didn't propose to me (as opposed to me proposing to him), if he said to me I'd rather not marry because I don't find it important, and I would never give him an ultimatum on it, or leave him for not marrying me.

My relationship with someone will always be about the love, the intimacy, respect and trust, and dedication of said relationship - and though you may think that I'm crude to say that I don't think marriage is important, I'm probably more faithful, dedicated, attentive and caring than many married women you may know.

I don't know what else I can say to make you understand that I mean no harm by what I have said about marriage, it's just how I feel. I can say that maybe one day I will marry. But maybe it'll be a marriage of a different sort, you know? To each his own. And also, let me congratulate you on your wedding to Dave. Congratulations and much happiness to you both.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

analog

Many women, as many men, do not want to simply keep being "the girl/boyfriend" for forever. Inasmuch as the marriage itself is largely ceremonial and symbollic, the simple titles of husband and wife hold with them, in many societies, a much higher notion of importance and emotional symbollism, as well as a greater respect for the status of the "couple". Basically, just by having the ceremony or signing the piece of paper, you're publicly stating that, yes, this person is my love/partner/whatever for forever. Until then, you're just two people who may or may not live together, are most likely bumping uglies (having sex), and who are seen together all the time. Not nearly as much respect or recognition is given to people who are just "a couple".

For me, when I find the woman I love and want to spend eternity with, I'll want everyone and their brother to know about it. I'll be legally married, have a wife, no kids, and life will be good. Love will be mine, and we will be happy together as equals, friends, lovers, etc. I will see no need to just "be"- I will want it recorded, announced, celebrated, and noted by all.

So, for me, at the exact moment that enough time, thought, etc., have been put into it, the question is getting asked. I would see no reason to keep a simple "relationship" from becoming a "marriage" for any more time than is necessary for me to know she's "the one".

Impetuous1

Interesting thread. I've been thinking of this very thing a lot lately and I must admit I'd be terrified to pop the question to my man. I guess if I were very sure the answer would be yes, I might be tempted to do so. However, I would definitely prefer to be propsed to.

I think marriage is definitely important. I myself am not religious and come from a broken household; parents are divorced. As stated previously, marriage is a declaration to the world that you love each other. The rings on your finger as a married couple are a symbol of this. Plus, analog, your right. The whole I'm his girlfriend, he's my boyfriend thing gets so old and tiring after a few years and to me (ok maybe this isn't justified), screams this relationship is very indefinite and could change at any moment. Plus at 30 it sounds so highschoolish. Not to mention, perhaps this is a lack of self confidence here, that if I was in a relationship for a long time and he didn't pop the question, I'd feel like what's wrong with me that this man doesn't want to marry me? To me marriage means stability.

Sho Nuff

I come from divorced parents, but my household is anything but broken. I am sure my parents were very in love when they married but they have personality traits in strict opposition. They thought love could conquer all, but the truth was they were making each other miserabe.

Fast forward to me. I am in the same situation. I have a women I love more life itself, but we are not together because our personalities drove us apart when we were. We are both older and more mature now, and I do plan on marrying this woman one day for the same reason my mother married my father. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and I never want her to be alone. Still, I am realistic. I saw what came before me and I am not eager to repeat their mistake.

Getting back on topic though, she and I have talked about marriage before. She wants to get married now and I am not ready. I wouldnt want her to ask because I know Im not ready and I would hate to say no to her. She understands that implicitly and is waiting for me to ask her. I think the gender roles are saving me and many men a lot of heartache. Women are usually ready to marry before men so its better for both involved that the man asks when hes ready in most cases.

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I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.