Social Anxiety, Pills or no? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Zephyr66 · 09-11-2005, 01:32 PM

(I did a search and found the old thread, but I figured nobody would kill me if I made my own thread with a specific question on it, especially since that thread is right next door to fossilizing)

But anyway. I was just diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder and I've been given the option of getting pills. Now I'm not a big fan of meds, but I think they might really help my life if they work. However, I'm really afraid of any side-effects they might have, which is why I haven't taken any pills before besides claritin.

My S.A.D. hasn't really crippled my social life like it has for some people.
I don't have a lot of problems in groups of friends or in public in general, with the exception of when my friends do something stupid, or just anything that calls attention to themselves, I'm the only one who gets really embarrassed.
It does really affect my one-on-one interaction, though. I've been dumped by a couple of girls, just cause I never called them... in fdact, I don't remember ever calling anyone if they didn't tell me specifically when to call them. Also, when I'm invited to something, I spend the hour or so before I get there worrying about whether I got the right time or not.

But back to my main point. I've heard some pills have a chance of hightened paranoia or insomnia, which are 2 things I'm extremely glad I don't have right now and I'm afraid I might not be able to handle them.

So I need some direction: go all or nothing, or ditch the risk and live in moderation?

Aladdin Sane · 09-11-2005, 02:04 PM

What kind of pills?
Are you ever depressed?
Your description of the problem doesn't seem like much of a problem. Do you see it as one?
How long has this being a problem?

Zephyr66 · 09-11-2005, 02:19 PM

-I'm still looking at my possibilities before I talk to my doctor, so for now I'm just talking about what I've read about anti-anxiety drugs in general.
-Not anymore, I was a bit of a pseudo-suicidal when I was 15 or 16, but I'm pretty content now.
-Yes and no, on the one hand, it definately has an effect on my life. I have trouble meeting new people and it's really easy to fuck up relationships, platonic and romantic. But on the other hand I know I'm fairly lucky compared to other people with anxiety issues
-My whole life, it started as just shyness symptoms, but more symptoms of S.A.D. emerged as I grew up.

Sweetpea · 09-11-2005, 04:00 PM

Hey there,Firstly, it takes allot of guts to bring this up on TFP here, so kudos!!

I will share my sister-in-law's issue with Social Anxiety. It is a very real and sometimes dibilitating disorder. Often, she will write everything she is going to say down before calling someone to say, make a dr. appointment or order something from a store. She has no friends and has panic attacks when out with people. She has a very understanding husband who helps out with things, but generally, she is a very jittery and nervous individual. She refuses to see a therapist or take medication, which i think would highly benefit her.

My question for you is Have you seen a therapist about this?
I think talking through the issues can really helping. If the therapist suggests medication, i would try it for a time, in conjuction with with weekly or bi-weekly therapy sessions. Therapy is a great way to work through issues and usually in a short period of time, you'll see a big difference.

Sweetpea

Zephyr66 · 09-11-2005, 05:18 PM

I don't think therapy's a good option for me right now, seeing as I'm still in school, so I don't have a lot of free time or money. I'll make sure to look into it though.

On another note, it seems we have a lot in common Sweetpea, which is pretty cool.

ryfo · 09-11-2005, 08:01 PM

Therapyis the way to go My wife suffers panic attaacks and anxiety disorder and had therapy, and although she still suffers she understands it alot better and knowswhat and how it will affect her and how to deal with it. She is now on meds which have helped but she sees her doc once a fortnight so time will be needed either way. Good luck

Vincentt · 09-11-2005, 08:31 PM

What pills are they talking about? You can find a good amount of information online about any one drug.

I also am not 'into' taking meds, but they help some people.

I hear most of the drugs slow your metablism, so gaining weight can be a problem. So watch what you eat.

In fact, maybe a change in diet and some time in the gym will help you?

Zephyr66 · 09-12-2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincentt

I hear most of the drugs slow your metablism, so gaining weight can be a problem. So watch what you eat.

I don't think I really have to worry about gaining weight, seeing as I'm 5'11" and about 125 pounds.

tecoyah · 09-12-2005, 05:54 AM

The use of medication should be (in my opinion) a last resort, many of the Mood Altering drugs can permanently rewire the brain, pretty much changing who you are, which is why they work. Social anxiety is a product of the society you live in, and has become an issue primarily because of perception of what "Normal" is, which is totally arbitrary in the first place. I have personal experience with this so called "illness" and do not see it as something that is wrong with someone, but rather a part of the personality. It is not something that needs to affect your life negatively, and is instead something you allow.
I am of the opinion that much of the psycology we ignore in ourselves can be used to create stronger, and more adept individuals if we decide to use our minds to change what so called....weaknesses we have. Personally, I would develop a plan to open yourself to others, and accept the fear you have as a means to an end, embrace the percieved failings of yourself and toss the baggage out the window.

What do you have to lose by just....playing the game of life.

Blaise · 09-12-2005, 07:52 AM

I would definitely try therapy first. You may even have some luck borrowing books on the subject from a library- it's free, and they do help some people a little.

And try working up the nerve to get over the specific problems you do have one at a time. If you manage to put yourself into a situation you get anxious thinking about, it's very unlikely that anything bad will happen and eventually you're going to lose the fear that something will happen. If you keep phoning people and nothing bad happens, eventually you're going to overcome the anxiety and become desensitised towards it because you'll realise there's really nothing to be anxious about. I used to be exactly the same, I'd get worried thinking about showing up to certain places or going out by myself or phoning someone or catching a bus alone.. and then the more I made myself do them, the better it got. Nothing really bad happened and over time you simply get bored with being nervous for no real reason.

maleficent · 09-12-2005, 08:05 AM

If it's not crippling your social life, and it doesn't sound like it is, then i would say don't pop a pill... The side effects would probably be worse than the initial problem.

Not talking on the phone i don't think is a bad thing, I would say that the women who broke up with you because you didn't call them were pretty unreasonable. I don't call people unless I've been specicially asked, otherwise i'm intruding. I don't like to IM people unless I've been specicially asked.. I feel like I'm intruding... I am completely time obsessed, I hate being early for something, I detest being late even more.. so I will triple check a time and worry that I have the right time when i have to go somewhere... I don't really think that is abnormal.

I don't think what you are describing is abnormal behavior (either that or I'm kidding myself too) I think it's being respectful of other people's time.

Social Anxiety Disorder, like all the kids otu there who are diagnosed with ADD, seems to be an all purpose condition to put a label on something or someone who's just not as outgoing as others. Why do people have to be outgoing? Why not just accept that some people are somewhat introverted and shyer than others.

Your personality is what makes you who you are. Being shy might just be a part of that personality. If you popped a pill and all of a sudden you weren't shy anymore, would you still be the same person?

Ustwo · 09-12-2005, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Your personality is what makes you who you are. Being shy might just be a part of that personality. If you popped a pill and all of a sudden you weren't shy anymore, would you still be the same person?

As opposed to what 90% of the people do by having a few drinks?

While I'm not a fan of pyschobabble, and I think meds are over-perscribed, I think such a pill, if one did exsist would be a great thing.

Being shy is not a virtue, and it can make people very miserable and alone. Sure we can say its their personality and its not hurting anyone, but who really WANTS to be shy?

analog · 09-12-2005, 01:41 PM

All I can say is good luck with this. I suffer from terrible bouts of anxiety (not specifically social, just "whenever") but I absolutely hate the meds. It should be a last resort, if anything. My experience with anti-anxiety meds wasn't really *bad*, per se, but they all made me feel like I was floating (not in a good or interesting way). You feel disconnected all the time, and they can rewire the way your brain works. If you ever stop taking them, your brain does some crazy shit to you. The withdrawal is bizarre, you swing between moods like crazy while your neurological chemistry tries to put itself back the way it was before the medicine screwed with it. I do not recommend pills- but for some people, the benefits outweigh the side-effects.

snowy · 09-12-2005, 01:50 PM

I'm on medication that treats depression, social anxiety, and anxiety (I take it for the depression and anxiety). I find it to be very helpful, but I also do a lot of other work for my anxiety above and beyond the medication (meditation, massage, etc). Medication can be good if used correctly and in conjuction with other forms of therapy.

As a student you should have lots of options open to you at your university. I know at mine we receive six free visits with a therapist at counseling services per term and free group therapy. There are also counseling services workshops around campus that offer advice about such disorders as social anxiety.

As for side effects and how you feel, that completely depends on you and the medication you are on. Medication for mental health issues can be completely hit or miss--it might take several prescriptions before you find the right one, or it might work immediately. I've been on citalopram (Celexa) for a very long time and haven't had any problems with it, and since it deals with both my depression and anxiety I find it to be quite helpful. But when it comes to mental health, everyone is different. I would recommend having a serious discussion with your doctor about your thoughts regarding your social anxiety and possibilities for treatment. Ask if there are any alternative therapies you might try before resorting to medication. Ask if there are any free counseling services available in your area, if there are none available on campus.

Good luck.

raveneye · 09-12-2005, 01:57 PM

My advice is to give the meds a try for awhile, then decide yourself whether you want to stay on them or not. Nowadays I think serotonin reuptake inhibitors are prescribed (rather than xanax and related that make you feel woozy), and the SRIs have less side effects on average.

The advantages of the meds: you'll find out very quick whether they're going to work, and if they work well, within a few weeks you'll know exactly what it feels like not to have SAD. It might be a very liberating experience in which you learn a lot about yourself and your social capabilities.

The disadvantages: there will probably be some side effects (specifically sexual if you take SRIs). But they're mild for most people and you can always stop taking them if it becomes a problem.

But I agree with others that the meds shouldn't be considered a permanent solution -- you don't want to be taking them for the rest of your life, I'd expect.

Zephyr66 · 09-12-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaise

If you manage to put yourself into a situation you get anxious thinking about, it's very unlikely that anything bad will happen and eventually you're going to lose the fear that something will happen. If you keep phoning people and nothing bad happens, eventually you're going to overcome the anxiety and become desensitised towards it because you'll realise there's really nothing to be anxious about.

Thats the big problem with my SAD, it's irrational, although I know theres absolutely nothing to worry about, I just can't shake the feeling. If I were just normally shy, this would be a good solution. But I think the big difference between just being shy and SAD is that even when SAD sufferers know theres nothing to worry about they still do worry, but shy people don't.

As for those of you who say this isn't really doing much to my life, I disagree. I was dumped by a girl I was totally in love with. why? cause i didn't talk to her for a month cause i couldn't get myself to call her. It really makes me feel bad about myself. that event was what made me first get myself checked out about it, and It's also what makes me want to try the meds.

I think I'm going to go with Raveneyes suggestion, I'm going to try them. I've already told all my friends to make sure they tell me if I start acting strangely.
I'm going to make sure to update this thread on how this progresses.

Suave · 09-12-2005, 11:03 PM

One word: therapy. I've been diagnosed with moderate SAD as well. It's all about gaining the ability to deal with it in my opinion. Whether through breathing exercises, behaviour therapy, meditation, or whatever, find something that works for you (or try) before going to drugs as a solution.

Edit: Just read Raveneyes' suggestion, and he's almost convinced ME to give drugs a go. Well put argument.

Jinn · 09-13-2005, 09:12 AM

This is SUCH a good question Zephyer. I actually read this post two days ago -- and wanted badly to reply, but I didn't. In this case, it wasn't SAD.. it was just that I didn't know how best to write out my thoughts; I decided to think about it for a little while. I saw it today, and remembered to post.. when my thoughts are much more clear.

As someone diagnosed with "SAD," be very careful what you decide is a SAD tendency and what is a NORMAL tendency. As much as normal is subjective, there are certain things that most people do and they are perfectly acceptable behaviors.

Being hesitant to post until I knew more clearly what I wanted to say -- that's NORMAL. It wasnt that I was so overly anxious to post that I was afraid, I just wanted to be clear. You can have this feeling and not be SAD. Likewise, a "symptom" of SAD is rehearsing what you say on a telephone. Contacting someone you don't know, about something you're not happy about, NOT in person (over the phone) should bring anxiety. Most outgoing people are comfortable reading the conversation and adapting as you go, but they've still got a basic idea in their head about what they're going to say. That, again, is a perfectly normal human behavior. Unless its severely detracting from your life, it's likely a very normal anxious response. Anxiety is good -- it reminds us that we should think before we speak, we should think before we act -- those sorts of good things. It reminds us that we have things to do and principles we believe in. That we should at lease filter our language a little bit if we don't want to risk offending others. If I didn't feel the basic level of anxiety brought on by offending others, I'd walk around calling everyone flaming faggots and pussy-whipped assholes. Would that be a good thing? I think not! I'd never spell check my work (who cares what other people think) and I'd never use capitalization or punctuation. I'm sure you've met the people who say "fuck the world".. but I have a feeling you aren't that person (nor do you wish to be). So be anxious.. just don't be unrealistic.

Now -- if you'd asked me three years ago if I thought my SAD diagnosis was true and that I was overly shy -- I'd have answered with a resounding "YES!!! HELP ME!!!"

Now ? I'm one of the more outgoing people I know- so what was my cure?

Booze. I certainly don't advocate you drinking to solve your problem, but it worked for me. Being just as leery as you are about poppin' pills, I decided to just let SAD run its course. This was senior year of high school, and I didn't like the stigma of pyschological "treatment" -- nor do I now. So-- off to college I went.. the ugly introvert. I had horrible acne, and becuase of that I figured that any girl (or person) I approached would immediately discount my ideas. I figured it was like being approached by a dirty bum on the street -- everything they say is like "...ewww..."

Well.. coming to college was an interesting eye-opener when it came to this. With the recession of my acne and my increased drinking, I came to realize that people more genuinely appreciated my knowledge and insight then what I looked like. Everytime I got drunk I wandered the dorms, or the party, or wherever I was. Through my drunken eyes, it looked like everyone was just watching me, and WANTED me to come talk to them. I was blessed with a very outgoing roommate who prodded me over and over to come out with him, and it was a very good thing. The more often I went to a party, and the more often I drank -- the more I realized everyone was alike. No one feels completely comfortable with 40 other people in a quiet room with nothing to do. So they drink, and they play games. I began to realize that anxiety is a normal function of humans.. we're really not comfortable with the unknown. The unknown is everything.. new places, new people, new conversations. Once I realized that everyone was just as scared as I was, it started to go away. It's very difficult to describe "how" it felt, but it felt like a general acceptance of people around me. I went from my 10 high school friends to my 50 college acquiantances. As I got more comfortable with myself, I lowered the tension in the air - they therefore got more comfortable with me. It's a difficult thing to self-medicate and self-therapy-ize.. but it worked for me.

So -- in conclusion to my rambling story -- You may need therapy, and its certainly an easier route then trying to learn it yourself. I learned that I had no reason to be SO anxious, and that a minimum level of anxiety was normal.

The most important point of all of this is that you should NOT expect it to be a fast process. It took me almost two years to come out of my shell, but boy.. was it worth it. If you're as anxious as you claim, and you work on deconstructing these "silly" anxities long enough.. it might just go away. Don't expect it to be an overnight fix, where you wake up one day and are suddenly Mr. Outgoing.. even with the pills, I don't think you'll ever feel that way if your brain is still telling you the wrong things. So.. you can do it, but don't expect it immediately.

Suave · 09-13-2005, 02:52 PM

Jinnkai, one doesn't need anxiety to avoid antisocial tendancies. That comes from compassion, consideration, and mindfulness. I, for one, could do without anxiety; it's a useless emotion aside from its link to excitement.

Agreed with the rest though. I'm also self-therapizing (if there is such a word), and I doubt I'll ever be able to stop, but I don't do it through drink anyway.

Most forms of therapy require you to do something yourself though. If you go to a psychologist, they will tell you what to do and in order for it to work, you'll have to do it. They are there essentially to help you through it, not to "give" you therapy.

Gatorade Frost · 09-13-2005, 02:58 PM

I'm going to skip the majority of this and say my own thoughts since I also have S.A.D. and really bad axiety problems.

2 things helped me - Getting tested for Hypoglycemia (which doesn't really apply if you're not hypoglycemic, but having good blood sugar levels keeps your moods steady) if you have symptoms and taking Zoloft.

I started Zoloft about a month ago I think and my life has been so much better it's unbelievable. The transition I had to college was a lot more laid back and I wasn't tense and freaked out all the time. Instead of living my life sitting in the constant worry that maybe I did something wrong, maybe I brought the wrong homework, maybe I'm in the wrong room (which I did the fourth day by accident, but I was able to shake it off, laugh at myself, then go and talk to my teacher afterwards. Before I took Zoloft I think I would've frozen up, kicked myself all day for being a dumbass and not talked to my teacher because I hate confronting people when I screwed up, so then I'd spend the next week having anxiety about whether I missed something, maybe there's assigned seating now, etc.) so really, that small thing really helped loosen me up and I wasn't constantly suffering from anxiety everywhere I went.

The thing about taking mood affecting drugs is that you have to go in every week or so, talk to them about it, they'll say "Oh, paranoia... Here, we'll try this drug instead..." and you won't have that problem anymore. Since you're constantly having checkups on the matter I don't really think there's much to worry about.

Suzz04 · 09-14-2005, 02:16 PM

I feel that I should contribute to this alittle. I apologize for the long post.

I don't have SAD. However, I am bipolar. Not by me going "oh I have those symptoms I've got it." I have spent the last year and half working on what was wrong with me. I was formally declared as bipolar by my psych and am being treated for it.

A little bit of history for you on my problem. My portion was that I could not step out of a store. Yes, you read that right. I had the insane fear that my money would not be in the bank when I would be ready to check out. I couldn't be in a room or setting of more than 4 people. This included being around my own family members. I would break out into a cold sweat and my heart would pound til I felt like I was going to pass out from lack of air. This continued on a daily basis until this past July. I'd been dealing with it for almost 4 years of the whole problem.

My first pysch just continued a treatment of Lexapro that my doctor prescribed to see if it would help me make it thru the store. She did more of a observation of the current medicine treatment. After one visit, where she ignored what I said, I talked to my doctor to see if I should see a different pysch.

She did send me to a new one. A very nice gentleman. He is now treating this with Wellbutrin XL and Trileptal. I'm doing very nicely. I have very few side effects that I know of.

Regardless of what people say, some people do need the medication to function on a daily basis. But, if your SAD is not that bad, then go thru with other options before you do start. If you can't find a solution, then talk to your doctor about other options before the medicine.

Everyone is different in this area. Options of all kinds are out there. You just have to find the right one that suits you.

Jinn · 09-14-2005, 04:20 PM

Please don't take this as an attack Suzz04, but there is no emotional disorder that requires medication. Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties).

For every story of "how the meds saved me" theres twice as many who worked it out, either by themselves or the counseling of a trained professional. No manner of pseudoscience or anecdotal experience will ever convince me otherwise.

Gatorade Frost · 09-14-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Please don't take this as an attack Suzz04, but there is no emotional disorder that requires medication. Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties).

For every story of "how the meds saved me" theres twice as many who worked it out, either by themselves or the counseling of a trained professional. No manner of pseudoscience or anecdotal experience will ever convince me otherwise.

As a person who's been there and said that, it's really an eye opener to how much something like that can change your life. Why should a person feel like they need to constantaly mentally work something out, work up the courage to do a small task or something, when you can take something that fixes the chemical imbalance and afterwards you never need to feel worried about one of those irrationalities you used to? Why would you want to pay thousands of dollars in counseling when there is another perfectly legitimate option that helps just as well?

Jinn · 09-14-2005, 04:53 PM

I agree. That, to me, means that you lack the motivation. You'd rather pay for the drug and that's perfectly fine, and likely the best option..

That doesn't mean it was required.

raveneye · 09-14-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

there is no emotional disorder that requires medication.

This leaves me wondering why you used the modifier "emotional"?

I think it's a good question: is there any fundamental difference between psychological disorders and other disorders that makes medication appropriate for one and not another? I would tend to say no, myself.

pattycakes · 09-14-2005, 05:46 PM

fromt he sounds of it takin meds will just screw you up. i get embarased when my friends do stupid crap.

Gatorade Frost · 09-14-2005, 05:54 PM

Nah. I don't think there's really any good way to describe it aside from just saying the next time you pick up a phone to call some one, s econd guess yourself about 15 times before having to talk yourself into getting over your social anxieties. Same with the next time you walk outside of your door and go some place. Every step of the way imagine that everyone is looking at you, looking at your flaws, seeing that you're overweight and judging you, or those people over in the corner are laughing at your buck teeth or something that you're self-concious about. Order something, and if the person doesn't hear you correctly and asks "What did you say?" think that it's a flaw of your own that you aren't any good at talking. Sit there and second guess everything you do and bring yourself down as much as possible. Then the next day don't do it. Live normally and happily and not have all those self-doubts you know in your head you shouldn't have, and that's what Zoloft is to me.

Quite honestly though, you never think you need help until you actually get it in some way and your life is so much for the better because of it. Otherwise it's just judgement with no real personal experience to base it on.

JumpinJesus · 09-14-2005, 07:30 PM

Zephyr,

There are a lot of good replies in this thread so far. Since I can't really add too much to what's already been said, I'll just give you my point of view.

I suffered from Panic Disorder about 12 years ago. It was becoming very debilitating and I eventually sought counseling. I was very anti-medication then and was able to deal with it successfully without them. I lived anxiety free after that for about 9 years.

It came back about 2 years ago with a vengeance. What made it worse the second time around was that I knew it was panic and anxiety but was unable to deal with it. I decided to give in and give medication a try. I first tried Paxil and I became a social zombie with severe paranoia. I gave them up quickly. I next tried Zoloft and it worked perfectly for me.

With Zoloft I've had little to no side effects (there were a few that lasted about a week. They were trouble sleeping and dreams that were very, very vivid.) Aside from that, the anxiety nearly disappeared. It's been 6 months and I'm still doing well.

Whatever you decide to do, the most important thing I learned about anxiety and other things was to learn how to relax. I thought I was, but I never truly deeply relaxed. Meditation works very well to keep anxiety at bay for a lot of people, so it might be worth looking into. The best thing about meditation is that it's free, aside from the cost of a book or two and a CD.

Good luck. I wish you the best in dealing with this.

Grasshopper Green · 09-14-2005, 07:54 PM

Zephyr, I have never been diagnosed with SAD, but I have general anxiety and deal with several of the "symptoms" for lack of a better word, of SAD. I took Lexapro (an SSRI) for a year due to depression, and it really seemed to help my anxiety, which was a pleasant side effect since thats not what it was prescribed for. Anti depressants do have side effects, you really just have to weigh the pros and cons to see if they are worth it for you. You can always try them for awhile and see if you like it. Good luck!

Suave · 09-14-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Please don't take this as an attack Suzz04, but there is no emotional disorder that requires medication. Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties).

For every story of "how the meds saved me" theres twice as many who worked it out, either by themselves or the counseling of a trained professional. No manner of pseudoscience or anecdotal experience will ever convince me otherwise.

Well the catch with a lot of these disorders is that, if they are severe enough, they completely override one's logical faculties. That's not to say that therapy or some other method won't work, but it can be much quicker, etc. if drugs are used at least as an initial treatment.

snowy · 09-14-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Please don't take this as an attack Suzz04, but there is no emotional disorder that requires medication. Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties).

For every story of "how the meds saved me" theres twice as many who worked it out, either by themselves or the counseling of a trained professional. No manner of pseudoscience or anecdotal experience will ever convince me otherwise.

I tried to work it out.

I couldn't. Medication was the only thing that worked. Of course, I have a family history of depression and bipolar disorder, so the deck, shall we say, is stacked.

Some of us do have chemical imbalances and desperately need the medication to assist us. It is not a matter of being weak or not trying to use alternative means; as stated in my original post I have used or attempted to use alternative means to control my depression and anxiety, but I find that medication deals with the major symptoms whilst meditation, massage, mental exercises, and other things deal with more of the fringe symptoms.

I do think that certainly these disorders are overdiagnosed, but the fact is that many of us DO suffer from these problems and need medication to deal with them. I know you didn't mean to offend, JinnKai, but you need to understand that many of us are dependent on our medication to even live a remotely normal life (I need mine to get out of bed in the morning...otherwise existence is paralyzing, believe it or not).

I've seen how medication has changed my own life, my brother's life, and my mother's life. For those of us who are genuine sufferers, it can be life-changing, amazing, and quite frankly, astounding.

Jinn · 09-15-2005, 04:32 AM

Quote:

This leaves me wondering why you used the modifier "emotional"?

I think it's a good question: is there any fundamental difference between psychological disorders and other disorders that makes medication appropriate for one and not another?

You can't make emphysema go away with the power of your mind. Irrational fears, paranoia, depression, anxiety.. those are pyschological flaws, not physical flaws.

And again, no offense to you, snowy.. but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

tried to work it out.

I couldn't. Medication was the only thing that worked. Of course, I have a family history of depression and bipolar disorder, so the deck, shall we say, is stacked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties).

Just because you gave up doesn't mean it wasn't possible to overcome your
paralyzing fears. It certainly would have taken longer and been more difficult, but that does not mean you have a 'chemical imbalance." Chemical imbalance has become a psuedoscience buzzword used to describe ALL of these "emotional disorders" -- and unless your doctor can show you that your serotonin, or dopamine or whatever "chemical" he thinks is causing it is LOWER than an actual average.. its just conjecture and an easy way to 'prove' that you need medicine.

raveneye · 09-15-2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

You can't make emphysema go away with the power of your mind. Irrational fears, paranoia, depression, anxiety.. those are pyschological flaws, not physical flaws.

Actually there is much biological research that has shown that all sorts of psychological disorders have organic causes, many of which have a genetic basis. People can learn to live with these disorders just like they can learn to live with emphysema, but the underlying causes are permanent conditions.

Jinn · 09-15-2005, 06:52 AM

Show me a credible (cited, peer reviewed) SCIENTIFIC study that can create a causation (rather than a correlation) between emotional "disorders" and a "chemical imbalance" and I'll believe your statement. Otherwise, its the same psuedoscience nonsense I mentioned above.

Gatorade Frost · 09-15-2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

From this data, it is clear that NE
circuits are dysregulated in affective disorders. These
abnormalities likely interfere with concentration, attention,
memory, arousal states, and sleep regulation. The primary dysfunction, if there indeed is one, in depression
is increasingly less likely to be found within the NE
system, per se; however, its dysregulation in the depressed
state apparently contributes to significant symptomatology,
and NE perturbation appears to be critical in treatment
response.

Role of Norepinephrine in the Pathophysiology and
Treatment of Mood Disorders

raveneye · 09-15-2005, 07:58 AM

Think of it this way: behavior is mediated by enzymes, and enzymes can be made nonfunctional by mutation. If the function of a neurotransmitter is knocked out, there is no way that that cannot influence behavior. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of biochemical pathways involved in our behavior, any one of which can be damaged in a multitude of ways.

Suave · 09-15-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raveneye

Think of it this way: behavior is mediated by enzymes, and enzymes can be made nonfunctional by mutation. If the function of a neurotransmitter is knocked out, there is no way that that cannot influence behavior. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of biochemical pathways involved in our behavior, any one of which can be damaged in a multitude of ways.

That's circular logic. Of course if one subscribes to your paradigm they will believe that it is all biologically-based. The point is to get someone to subscribe to it in the first place.

If I were to counter by saying: "Think of it this way: behaviour is a product of the mind, which affects the brain rather than the brain affecting the mind, and therefore when the brain is damaged, it does not necessarily cause any problems." You'd go "okay, so what?"

I don't believe that way exactly, but you see my point? Simply explaining what your belief is will not sway another person. Evidence must be provided, or at least a logical link to something tangible.

Jinn · 09-15-2005, 08:47 AM

I've created another thread to discuss this topic, as I do not with to derail this post any further. My recommendation is that you do NOT use medicine to "cure" this problem, unless absolutely necessary.

The discussion thread is posted here: <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1891087">http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1891087</a>
(I've moved it to Academics in order to provide a more scholarly approach)

5757 · 09-15-2005, 08:58 AM

TECOYAH SAID IT PERFECTLY:
The use of medication should be (in my opinion) a last resort, many of the Mood Altering drugs can permanently rewire the brain, pretty much changing who you are, which is why they work. Social anxiety is a product of the society you live in, and has become an issue primarily because of perception of what "Normal" is, which is totally arbitrary in the first place. I have personal experience with this so called "illness" and do not see it as something that is wrong with someone, but rather a part of the personality. It is not something that needs to affect your life negatively, and is instead something you allow.
I am of the opinion that much of the psycology we ignore in ourselves can be used to create stronger, and more adept individuals if we decide to use our minds to change what so called....weaknesses we have. Personally, I would develop a plan to open yourself to others, and accept the fear you have as a means to an end, embrace the percieved failings of yourself and toss the baggage out the window.
What do you have to lose by just....playing the game of life.
__________________________________________________________

Hes exactly right! I have been diagnosed with S.A.D. and something called Borderline Personality Disorder. I've been told that meds can help with my disorders. I tried. They made things worse. The problem with taking meds is you may have unrealistic expectations. Things don't magically get better with meds. Tecoyah is exactly right when he says drugs may permenatly rewire your brain. Basically what you'll probably get in way of medication are downers. You'll feel drained. You may feel like you don't even have enough energy to be worried. Or worse, the medication will make you paranoid which is exactly what happened to me. I was given a medication called seroquel. www.seroquel.com/ If you check out the wesite, seroquel isn't even prescibed for SAD. Be careful if you decide to take pills. Do your research.

I highly recommend therapy/counseling. Just read what Tecoyah said!

raveneye · 09-15-2005, 09:46 AM

Suave, somebody who doesn't believe in any material basis in behavior is not likely to be swayed by science -- in fact I really would be hard pressed to say what they would be swayed by.

09-11-2005, 01:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zephyr66 My custom title's the shit! Location: Canada	Social Anxiety, Pills or no? (I did a search and found the old thread, but I figured nobody would kill me if I made my own thread with a specific question on it, especially since that thread is right next door to fossilizing) But anyway. I was just diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder and I've been given the option of getting pills. Now I'm not a big fan of meds, but I think they might really help my life if they work. However, I'm really afraid of any side-effects they might have, which is why I haven't taken any pills before besides claritin. My S.A.D. hasn't really crippled my social life like it has for some people. I don't have a lot of problems in groups of friends or in public in general, with the exception of when my friends do something stupid, or just anything that calls attention to themselves, I'm the only one who gets really embarrassed. It does really affect my one-on-one interaction, though. I've been dumped by a couple of girls, just cause I never called them... in fdact, I don't remember ever calling anyone if they didn't tell me specifically when to call them. Also, when I'm invited to something, I spend the hour or so before I get there worrying about whether I got the right time or not. But back to my main point. I've heard some pills have a chance of hightened paranoia or insomnia, which are 2 things I'm extremely glad I don't have right now and I'm afraid I might not be able to handle them. So I need some direction: go all or nothing, or ditch the risk and live in moderation?

09-11-2005, 02:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	What kind of pills? Are you ever depressed? Your description of the problem doesn't seem like much of a problem. Do you see it as one? How long has this being a problem? __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

09-11-2005, 04:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	Hey there,Firstly, it takes allot of guts to bring this up on TFP here, so kudos!! I will share my sister-in-law's issue with Social Anxiety. It is a very real and sometimes dibilitating disorder. Often, she will write everything she is going to say down before calling someone to say, make a dr. appointment or order something from a store. She has no friends and has panic attacks when out with people. She has a very understanding husband who helps out with things, but generally, she is a very jittery and nervous individual. She refuses to see a therapist or take medication, which i think would highly benefit her. My question for you is Have you seen a therapist about this? I think talking through the issues can really helping. If the therapist suggests medication, i would try it for a time, in conjuction with with weekly or bi-weekly therapy sessions. Therapy is a great way to work through issues and usually in a short period of time, you'll see a big difference. Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

09-11-2005, 08:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	What pills are they talking about? You can find a good amount of information online about any one drug. I also am not 'into' taking meds, but they help some people. I hear most of the drugs slow your metablism, so gaining weight can be a problem. So watch what you eat. In fact, maybe a change in diet and some time in the gym will help you? __________________ .

09-12-2005, 08:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	If it's not crippling your social life, and it doesn't sound like it is, then i would say don't pop a pill... The side effects would probably be worse than the initial problem. Not talking on the phone i don't think is a bad thing, I would say that the women who broke up with you because you didn't call them were pretty unreasonable. I don't call people unless I've been specicially asked, otherwise i'm intruding. I don't like to IM people unless I've been specicially asked.. I feel like I'm intruding... I am completely time obsessed, I hate being early for something, I detest being late even more.. so I will triple check a time and worry that I have the right time when i have to go somewhere... I don't really think that is abnormal. I don't think what you are describing is abnormal behavior (either that or I'm kidding myself too) I think it's being respectful of other people's time. Social Anxiety Disorder, like all the kids otu there who are diagnosed with ADD, seems to be an all purpose condition to put a label on something or someone who's just not as outgoing as others. Why do people have to be outgoing? Why not just accept that some people are somewhat introverted and shyer than others. Your personality is what makes you who you are. Being shy might just be a part of that personality. If you popped a pill and all of a sudden you weren't shy anymore, would you still be the same person? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

09-11-2005, 02:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zephyr66 My custom title's the shit! Location: Canada	-I'm still looking at my possibilities before I talk to my doctor, so for now I'm just talking about what I've read about anti-anxiety drugs in general. -Not anymore, I was a bit of a pseudo-suicidal when I was 15 or 16, but I'm pretty content now. -Yes and no, on the one hand, it definately has an effect on my life. I have trouble meeting new people and it's really easy to fuck up relationships, platonic and romantic. But on the other hand I know I'm fairly lucky compared to other people with anxiety issues -My whole life, it started as just shyness symptoms, but more symptoms of S.A.D. emerged as I grew up.

09-11-2005, 05:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zephyr66 My custom title's the shit! Location: Canada	I don't think therapy's a good option for me right now, seeing as I'm still in school, so I don't have a lot of free time or money. I'll make sure to look into it though. On another note, it seems we have a lot in common Sweetpea, which is pretty cool.

09-11-2005, 08:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
ryfo Psycho Location: melbourne australia	Therapyis the way to go My wife suffers panic attaacks and anxiety disorder and had therapy, and although she still suffers she understands it alot better and knowswhat and how it will affect her and how to deal with it. She is now on meds which have helped but she sees her doc once a fortnight so time will be needed either way. Good luck

09-12-2005, 05:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	The use of medication should be (in my opinion) a last resort, many of the Mood Altering drugs can permanently rewire the brain, pretty much changing who you are, which is why they work. Social anxiety is a product of the society you live in, and has become an issue primarily because of perception of what "Normal" is, which is totally arbitrary in the first place. I have personal experience with this so called "illness" and do not see it as something that is wrong with someone, but rather a part of the personality. It is not something that needs to affect your life negatively, and is instead something you allow. I am of the opinion that much of the psycology we ignore in ourselves can be used to create stronger, and more adept individuals if we decide to use our minds to change what so called....weaknesses we have. Personally, I would develop a plan to open yourself to others, and accept the fear you have as a means to an end, embrace the percieved failings of yourself and toss the baggage out the window. What do you have to lose by just....playing the game of life.

09-12-2005, 07:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
Blaise Upright Location: UK	I would definitely try therapy first. You may even have some luck borrowing books on the subject from a library- it's free, and they do help some people a little. And try working up the nerve to get over the specific problems you do have one at a time. If you manage to put yourself into a situation you get anxious thinking about, it's very unlikely that anything bad will happen and eventually you're going to lose the fear that something will happen. If you keep phoning people and nothing bad happens, eventually you're going to overcome the anxiety and become desensitised towards it because you'll realise there's really nothing to be anxious about. I used to be exactly the same, I'd get worried thinking about showing up to certain places or going out by myself or phoning someone or catching a bus alone.. and then the more I made myself do them, the better it got. Nothing really bad happened and over time you simply get bored with being nervous for no real reason.

09-12-2005, 01:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
analog Banned	All I can say is good luck with this. I suffer from terrible bouts of anxiety (not specifically social, just "whenever") but I absolutely hate the meds. It should be a last resort, if anything. My experience with anti-anxiety meds wasn't really bad, per se, but they all made me feel like I was floating (not in a good or interesting way). You feel disconnected all the time, and they can rewire the way your brain works. If you ever stop taking them, your brain does some crazy shit to you. The withdrawal is bizarre, you swing between moods like crazy while your neurological chemistry tries to put itself back the way it was before the medicine screwed with it. I do not recommend pills- but for some people, the benefits outweigh the side-effects.

09-12-2005, 01:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I'm on medication that treats depression, social anxiety, and anxiety (I take it for the depression and anxiety). I find it to be very helpful, but I also do a lot of other work for my anxiety above and beyond the medication (meditation, massage, etc). Medication can be good if used correctly and in conjuction with other forms of therapy. As a student you should have lots of options open to you at your university. I know at mine we receive six free visits with a therapist at counseling services per term and free group therapy. There are also counseling services workshops around campus that offer advice about such disorders as social anxiety. As for side effects and how you feel, that completely depends on you and the medication you are on. Medication for mental health issues can be completely hit or miss--it might take several prescriptions before you find the right one, or it might work immediately. I've been on citalopram (Celexa) for a very long time and haven't had any problems with it, and since it deals with both my depression and anxiety I find it to be quite helpful. But when it comes to mental health, everyone is different. I would recommend having a serious discussion with your doctor about your thoughts regarding your social anxiety and possibilities for treatment. Ask if there are any alternative therapies you might try before resorting to medication. Ask if there are any free counseling services available in your area, if there are none available on campus. Good luck. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

09-12-2005, 01:57 PM	#15 (permalink)
raveneye Born Against	My advice is to give the meds a try for awhile, then decide yourself whether you want to stay on them or not. Nowadays I think serotonin reuptake inhibitors are prescribed (rather than xanax and related that make you feel woozy), and the SRIs have less side effects on average. The advantages of the meds: you'll find out very quick whether they're going to work, and if they work well, within a few weeks you'll know exactly what it feels like not to have SAD. It might be a very liberating experience in which you learn a lot about yourself and your social capabilities. The disadvantages: there will probably be some side effects (specifically sexual if you take SRIs). But they're mild for most people and you can always stop taking them if it becomes a problem. But I agree with others that the meds shouldn't be considered a permanent solution -- you don't want to be taking them for the rest of your life, I'd expect.

09-12-2005, 11:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	One word: therapy. I've been diagnosed with moderate SAD as well. It's all about gaining the ability to deal with it in my opinion. Whether through breathing exercises, behaviour therapy, meditation, or whatever, find something that works for you (or try) before going to drugs as a solution. Edit: Just read Raveneyes' suggestion, and he's almost convinced ME to give drugs a go. Well put argument. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

09-13-2005, 09:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	This is SUCH a good question Zephyer. I actually read this post two days ago -- and wanted badly to reply, but I didn't. In this case, it wasn't SAD.. it was just that I didn't know how best to write out my thoughts; I decided to think about it for a little while. I saw it today, and remembered to post.. when my thoughts are much more clear. As someone diagnosed with "SAD," be very careful what you decide is a SAD tendency and what is a NORMAL tendency. As much as normal is subjective, there are certain things that most people do and they are perfectly acceptable behaviors. Being hesitant to post until I knew more clearly what I wanted to say -- that's NORMAL. It wasnt that I was so overly anxious to post that I was afraid, I just wanted to be clear. You can have this feeling and not be SAD. Likewise, a "symptom" of SAD is rehearsing what you say on a telephone. Contacting someone you don't know, about something you're not happy about, NOT in person (over the phone) should bring anxiety. Most outgoing people are comfortable reading the conversation and adapting as you go, but they've still got a basic idea in their head about what they're going to say. That, again, is a perfectly normal human behavior. Unless its severely detracting from your life, it's likely a very normal anxious response. Anxiety is good -- it reminds us that we should think before we speak, we should think before we act -- those sorts of good things. It reminds us that we have things to do and principles we believe in. That we should at lease filter our language a little bit if we don't want to risk offending others. If I didn't feel the basic level of anxiety brought on by offending others, I'd walk around calling everyone flaming faggots and pussy-whipped assholes. Would that be a good thing? I think not! I'd never spell check my work (who cares what other people think) and I'd never use capitalization or punctuation. I'm sure you've met the people who say "fuck the world".. but I have a feeling you aren't that person (nor do you wish to be). So be anxious.. just don't be unrealistic. Now -- if you'd asked me three years ago if I thought my SAD diagnosis was true and that I was overly shy -- I'd have answered with a resounding "YES!!! HELP ME!!!" Now ? I'm one of the more outgoing people I know- so what was my cure? Booze. I certainly don't advocate you drinking to solve your problem, but it worked for me. Being just as leery as you are about poppin' pills, I decided to just let SAD run its course. This was senior year of high school, and I didn't like the stigma of pyschological "treatment" -- nor do I now. So-- off to college I went.. the ugly introvert. I had horrible acne, and becuase of that I figured that any girl (or person) I approached would immediately discount my ideas. I figured it was like being approached by a dirty bum on the street -- everything they say is like "...ewww..." Well.. coming to college was an interesting eye-opener when it came to this. With the recession of my acne and my increased drinking, I came to realize that people more genuinely appreciated my knowledge and insight then what I looked like. Everytime I got drunk I wandered the dorms, or the party, or wherever I was. Through my drunken eyes, it looked like everyone was just watching me, and WANTED me to come talk to them. I was blessed with a very outgoing roommate who prodded me over and over to come out with him, and it was a very good thing. The more often I went to a party, and the more often I drank -- the more I realized everyone was alike. No one feels completely comfortable with 40 other people in a quiet room with nothing to do. So they drink, and they play games. I began to realize that anxiety is a normal function of humans.. we're really not comfortable with the unknown. The unknown is everything.. new places, new people, new conversations. Once I realized that everyone was just as scared as I was, it started to go away. It's very difficult to describe "how" it felt, but it felt like a general acceptance of people around me. I went from my 10 high school friends to my 50 college acquiantances. As I got more comfortable with myself, I lowered the tension in the air - they therefore got more comfortable with me. It's a difficult thing to self-medicate and self-therapy-ize.. but it worked for me. So -- in conclusion to my rambling story -- You may need therapy, and its certainly an easier route then trying to learn it yourself. I learned that I had no reason to be SO anxious, and that a minimum level of anxiety was normal. The most important point of all of this is that you should NOT expect it to be a fast process. It took me almost two years to come out of my shell, but boy.. was it worth it. If you're as anxious as you claim, and you work on deconstructing these "silly" anxities long enough.. it might just go away. Don't expect it to be an overnight fix, where you wake up one day and are suddenly Mr. Outgoing.. even with the pills, I don't think you'll ever feel that way if your brain is still telling you the wrong things. So.. you can do it, but don't expect it immediately. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-13-2005, 02:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Jinnkai, one doesn't need anxiety to avoid antisocial tendancies. That comes from compassion, consideration, and mindfulness. I, for one, could do without anxiety; it's a useless emotion aside from its link to excitement. Agreed with the rest though. I'm also self-therapizing (if there is such a word), and I doubt I'll ever be able to stop, but I don't do it through drink anyway. Most forms of therapy require you to do something yourself though. If you go to a psychologist, they will tell you what to do and in order for it to work, you'll have to do it. They are there essentially to help you through it, not to "give" you therapy. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato Last edited by Suave; 09-13-2005 at 02:57 PM..

09-13-2005, 02:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I'm going to skip the majority of this and say my own thoughts since I also have S.A.D. and really bad axiety problems. 2 things helped me - Getting tested for Hypoglycemia (which doesn't really apply if you're not hypoglycemic, but having good blood sugar levels keeps your moods steady) if you have symptoms and taking Zoloft. I started Zoloft about a month ago I think and my life has been so much better it's unbelievable. The transition I had to college was a lot more laid back and I wasn't tense and freaked out all the time. Instead of living my life sitting in the constant worry that maybe I did something wrong, maybe I brought the wrong homework, maybe I'm in the wrong room (which I did the fourth day by accident, but I was able to shake it off, laugh at myself, then go and talk to my teacher afterwards. Before I took Zoloft I think I would've frozen up, kicked myself all day for being a dumbass and not talked to my teacher because I hate confronting people when I screwed up, so then I'd spend the next week having anxiety about whether I missed something, maybe there's assigned seating now, etc.) so really, that small thing really helped loosen me up and I wasn't constantly suffering from anxiety everywhere I went. The thing about taking mood affecting drugs is that you have to go in every week or so, talk to them about it, they'll say "Oh, paranoia... Here, we'll try this drug instead..." and you won't have that problem anymore. Since you're constantly having checkups on the matter I don't really think there's much to worry about. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

09-14-2005, 02:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
Suzz04 Crazy Location: Virginia	I feel that I should contribute to this alittle. I apologize for the long post. I don't have SAD. However, I am bipolar. Not by me going "oh I have those symptoms I've got it." I have spent the last year and half working on what was wrong with me. I was formally declared as bipolar by my psych and am being treated for it. A little bit of history for you on my problem. My portion was that I could not step out of a store. Yes, you read that right. I had the insane fear that my money would not be in the bank when I would be ready to check out. I couldn't be in a room or setting of more than 4 people. This included being around my own family members. I would break out into a cold sweat and my heart would pound til I felt like I was going to pass out from lack of air. This continued on a daily basis until this past July. I'd been dealing with it for almost 4 years of the whole problem. My first pysch just continued a treatment of Lexapro that my doctor prescribed to see if it would help me make it thru the store. She did more of a observation of the current medicine treatment. After one visit, where she ignored what I said, I talked to my doctor to see if I should see a different pysch. She did send me to a new one. A very nice gentleman. He is now treating this with Wellbutrin XL and Trileptal. I'm doing very nicely. I have very few side effects that I know of. Regardless of what people say, some people do need the medication to function on a daily basis. But, if your SAD is not that bad, then go thru with other options before you do start. If you can't find a solution, then talk to your doctor about other options before the medicine. Everyone is different in this area. Options of all kinds are out there. You just have to find the right one that suits you.

09-14-2005, 04:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Please don't take this as an attack Suzz04, but there is no emotional disorder that requires medication. Depression, SAD, OCD, panic attacks, ADD, ADHD.. whatever the flavor of the week is -- it's still something that can be solved by anyone with logical faculties, the desire to change it, and the motivation. The only person who REQUIRES medicine lacks one of the above (usually motivation or logical faculties). For every story of "how the meds saved me" theres twice as many who worked it out, either by themselves or the counseling of a trained professional. No manner of pseudoscience or anecdotal experience will ever convince me otherwise. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel Last edited by Jinn; 09-14-2005 at 04:23 PM..

09-14-2005, 04:53 PM	#24 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I agree. That, to me, means that you lack the motivation. You'd rather pay for the drug and that's perfectly fine, and likely the best option.. That doesn't mean it was required. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-14-2005, 05:54 PM	#27 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	Nah. I don't think there's really any good way to describe it aside from just saying the next time you pick up a phone to call some one, s econd guess yourself about 15 times before having to talk yourself into getting over your social anxieties. Same with the next time you walk outside of your door and go some place. Every step of the way imagine that everyone is looking at you, looking at your flaws, seeing that you're overweight and judging you, or those people over in the corner are laughing at your buck teeth or something that you're self-concious about. Order something, and if the person doesn't hear you correctly and asks "What did you say?" think that it's a flaw of your own that you aren't any good at talking. Sit there and second guess everything you do and bring yourself down as much as possible. Then the next day don't do it. Live normally and happily and not have all those self-doubts you know in your head you shouldn't have, and that's what Zoloft is to me. Quite honestly though, you never think you need help until you actually get it in some way and your life is so much for the better because of it. Otherwise it's just judgement with no real personal experience to base it on. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

09-14-2005, 07:30 PM	#28 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Zephyr, There are a lot of good replies in this thread so far. Since I can't really add too much to what's already been said, I'll just give you my point of view. I suffered from Panic Disorder about 12 years ago. It was becoming very debilitating and I eventually sought counseling. I was very anti-medication then and was able to deal with it successfully without them. I lived anxiety free after that for about 9 years. It came back about 2 years ago with a vengeance. What made it worse the second time around was that I knew it was panic and anxiety but was unable to deal with it. I decided to give in and give medication a try. I first tried Paxil and I became a social zombie with severe paranoia. I gave them up quickly. I next tried Zoloft and it worked perfectly for me. With Zoloft I've had little to no side effects (there were a few that lasted about a week. They were trouble sleeping and dreams that were very, very vivid.) Aside from that, the anxiety nearly disappeared. It's been 6 months and I'm still doing well. Whatever you decide to do, the most important thing I learned about anxiety and other things was to learn how to relax. I thought I was, but I never truly deeply relaxed. Meditation works very well to keep anxiety at bay for a lot of people, so it might be worth looking into. The best thing about meditation is that it's free, aside from the cost of a book or two and a CD. Good luck. I wish you the best in dealing with this. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

09-14-2005, 07:54 PM	#29 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	Zephyr, I have never been diagnosed with SAD, but I have general anxiety and deal with several of the "symptoms" for lack of a better word, of SAD. I took Lexapro (an SSRI) for a year due to depression, and it really seemed to help my anxiety, which was a pleasant side effect since thats not what it was prescribed for. Anti depressants do have side effects, you really just have to weigh the pros and cons to see if they are worth it for you. You can always try them for awhile and see if you like it. Good luck! __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

09-15-2005, 06:52 AM	#34 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Show me a credible (cited, peer reviewed) SCIENTIFIC study that can create a causation (rather than a correlation) between emotional "disorders" and a "chemical imbalance" and I'll believe your statement. Otherwise, its the same psuedoscience nonsense I mentioned above. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-15-2005, 07:58 AM	#36 (permalink)
raveneye Born Against	Think of it this way: behavior is mediated by enzymes, and enzymes can be made nonfunctional by mutation. If the function of a neurotransmitter is knocked out, there is no way that that cannot influence behavior. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of biochemical pathways involved in our behavior, any one of which can be damaged in a multitude of ways.

09-15-2005, 08:47 AM	#38 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I've created another thread to discuss this topic, as I do not with to derail this post any further. My recommendation is that you do NOT use medicine to "cure" this problem, unless absolutely necessary. The discussion thread is posted here: <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1891087">http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=1891087</a> (I've moved it to Academics in order to provide a more scholarly approach) __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-15-2005, 08:58 AM	#39 (permalink)
5757 Insane Location: Vegas!!	... TECOYAH SAID IT PERFECTLY: The use of medication should be (in my opinion) a last resort, many of the Mood Altering drugs can permanently rewire the brain, pretty much changing who you are, which is why they work. Social anxiety is a product of the society you live in, and has become an issue primarily because of perception of what "Normal" is, which is totally arbitrary in the first place. I have personal experience with this so called "illness" and do not see it as something that is wrong with someone, but rather a part of the personality. It is not something that needs to affect your life negatively, and is instead something you allow. I am of the opinion that much of the psycology we ignore in ourselves can be used to create stronger, and more adept individuals if we decide to use our minds to change what so called....weaknesses we have. Personally, I would develop a plan to open yourself to others, and accept the fear you have as a means to an end, embrace the percieved failings of yourself and toss the baggage out the window. What do you have to lose by just....playing the game of life. __________________________________________________________ Hes exactly right! I have been diagnosed with S.A.D. and something called Borderline Personality Disorder. I've been told that meds can help with my disorders. I tried. They made things worse. The problem with taking meds is you may have unrealistic expectations. Things don't magically get better with meds. Tecoyah is exactly right when he says drugs may permenatly rewire your brain. Basically what you'll probably get in way of medication are downers. You'll feel drained. You may feel like you don't even have enough energy to be worried. Or worse, the medication will make you paranoid which is exactly what happened to me. I was given a medication called seroquel. www.seroquel.com/ If you check out the wesite, seroquel isn't even prescibed for SAD. Be careful if you decide to take pills. Do your research. I highly recommend therapy/counseling. Just read what Tecoyah said! __________________ Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana Last edited by 5757; 09-15-2005 at 09:00 AM..

09-15-2005, 09:46 AM	#40 (permalink)
raveneye Born Against	Suave, somebody who doesn't believe in any material basis in behavior is not likely to be swayed by science -- in fact I really would be hard pressed to say what they would be swayed by.