pan6467

This was started in another thread and instead of threadjacking I thought this would be a better place for this debate......


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This is not necessarily true, and one of the biggest misconceptions in the addiction field.

Take heroin, alcohol and benzodiazapine addictions for example. Those are the 3 worst physical addictions. The body literally NEEDS those stimuli put into them or the body may DIE.

Psychologically, these people are more worried about the physical pain then the mental and therefore they need to be treated differently than a 100% mental addiction such as gambling, gaming, etc.

I work in a detox, I know when I found recovery, my body did not react as theirs does. There were no physical pains that could even be ccompared to what they go through. (Yes, I may have had some psychosomatic pains, maybe, such as a headache and fatigue but that was because I had been up 72 straight hours at a poker table). BUT, my mental pain was far far worse than theirs.... I had years of guilt and sorrow and things I had buried that came to surface far far faster than the physical addicts ever will. Therefore, my psychological pain needed treatment right away or I would have relapsed within a week..... (and almost every mental addict I have worked with is the same).

Yes, I agree, the addict has to truly want the help, but I can tell you right now from experience, once the physical pain is gone they have a better chance of recovery than a 100% mental addict.





Yes, there are MAJOR differences in how you treat mental and physical addictions......

primarily as a counselor you have to totally delve into the psychological pain the mental addict is covering, this is the only way to get a full recovery.

with physical, you can have the alcoholic who never wants to drink again and he changes his life almost right away and then in time go into the psychological pains.

With mental addictions, you don't have that luxury, you have to delve right away and focus on the psyche.

This is why places like Algamus and "The Track" in Brecksville's VA hospital have far better recovery rates for gamblers than Betty Ford, Glenbeigh or Hazelden. Algamus and "The Track" work the psyche and educate one on how to deal positively with pressure, they focus on mental addictions as a seperate and different form of addiction than the physical.... whereas the others mentioned above are still lost in treating all addictions the same.

There was a report out not long ago that showed the differences between addictions.

It's very, very old school to believe and treat every addiction the same and by doing so your recovery rates will suffer. And the whole purpose of helping is to have a decent recovery rate.

I think the fact the statistics show that only 2% of mental addicts ever truly recover and that the suicide rates are far higher than physical addictions proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that treatment has to be different.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pje120

A physical addiction is a contradiction in itself. An addiction, by definition, occurs in the mind, therefore all addictions are mental.

Perhaps you mean an addiction caused by something physical vs something mental. Do drug addictions come under the category of physical addiction? But are drug addicts addicted to the mental feeling of the drug's effects, or simply taking the drug? Considering that I have never heard of someone being addicted to taking drugs that don't have a positive mental effect, and that there is a pretty clear relationship between how strong the positive mental/emotional effect is on a person and how addictive the drug is, it's the mental feeling that is triggered by the physical act that is addictive.

I've heard people talk about physical addiction as if certain brain cells will die if the addiction is not satisfied. But many people seem to forget that thought occurs in the brain -- perhaps these brain cells are the physical equivalence to the mental addiction and they should die, in the same way there is physical activity in the brain for every mental thought? Even a mental addiction is triggered by a physical cause - activity in the brain. Some may claim a mental addiction is triggered by mental causes - thought - but what is thought? Activity in the brain. Emotion? Activity in the brain. Desire? Activity in the brain.

Using physical addiction in the way psychology seems to use it all mental addiction are physical. This is, again, because every thought has a physical equivalence in the brain. The death of mental addiction thoughts involves a physical change in the brain which causes the pain. (It is usually more comfortable to say the death of the mental addiction causes pain, but that is inseparable to the physical reactions in the brain.)

Using mental addiction in the way psychology seems to use it all physical addictions are mental. This is because the person is only addicted as far as he is mentally aware of what will happen if he goes off the source of the addiction.

And so a mental addiction is a physical addiction because a physical change will occur if he quits the addiction and a physical addiction is a mental addiction as he is only addicted as far as he is mentally aware of any effects the thing he is addicted to causes.

As far as I can see the whole concept of mental vs physical addiction is ridiculous and the only reason I can see as to why it is so popular in psychology is as a childish way to avoid accepting the fact that if someone fell "victim" to an addiction he is generally responsible and to blame for that, not some physical thing outside his control. Excuse my honesty.

raeanna74

I can definately see the physical aspect of an addiction as being important.

My brother has attempted to quit cigarettes a number of times. He hits the worst place and goes back to smoking when he starts coughing up the black gunk from his lungs and gets a back stomach ache. If he could get past those symptoms he wouldn't have so much trouble quitting. He wants to quit except it literally hurts to do so. Granted the desire has to be strong enough to overcome the physical hurt but it's still a battle against the physical body as well as a battle in the mind.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Gatorade Frost

For the curious, here's the definition of addiction:

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

thingstodo

I have a close relative who is a recovering heroin addict. And he has used plenty of other drugs on his path to recovery. As such, I have done hours of research on the subject. Furthermore, my brother-in-law is a shrink that deals with drug and alcohol abuse and my wife is a psychologist. I say all that to provide some semblance of credibility.

I disagree with pan6467.

A chemical dependency of any kind requires a detox of the chemical. That is the first and easiest stage. The easiest but certainly not easy - it can be horrible, which is why it is amazing that so many addicts go through it so many times. What's left is the mental portion. Also, most chemical addicts started due to an underlying psychological problem. Had they been able to efectively deal with the underlying problem, they probably wouldn't have become an addict. However, once and addict, always an addict.

So both addictions end up with the mental portion. And that is what takes a lifetime to deal with. Because an addict is always a recovering addict.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

pan6467

I'm not saying that a physical addict has no psychological pain or underlying reasons, they do.

And yes, a physical is a mental addiction also, but once you take the stimulus away the mental part is far easier to work with and you can do so at a pace that can span years. Some people, probably the majority, may never deal with the issues and recover, saying they just liked the feeling and lost control because they chased. They altered their reality because of the euphoria and then to fight being sick.

With a solely mental addiction the stimulus totally is in the psyche and you have a short time to find the underlying issues before relapse. While this type of addict, usually did so to escape reality in different way than the drug addict. This type chose to alter reality to escape, to achieve dreams, to believe their life was more important, etc.

However, most physical addicts once detoxed, can attack those problems slower and in some cases never (depending on how they choose to try to recover), while the gambler, chatter, E-Bayer, etc. (the 100% mental) usually has to focus on their underlying issues immediately in order to recover.

If you talk to a cross addict (one who has had both the physical and mental) , they will tell you the physical one is far easier to quit.

You'll see in GA meeting the Heroin cross addict that says he would gamble his last $100 away thinking he could get more money to buy more smack, and he'd build the money (and not feel 1 craving) but would eventually lose and then be in bad shape because he was broke and sick. But that the mental pain of the (the anguish, loss and so on) was more devestating than the physical withdrawal of the heroin.

Addiction is addiction and the loss of control over anything is something that one should seek help over.

It's just my contention, the 100% mental addiction needs to be treated in different ways and recognized as a different and in some cases harder addiction to overcome and treat than a physical addiction.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

thingstodo

So you essentially restated what I said. All addictions have a basis in the mental and are manifested in the physical, whether it is stuffing a drug up your nose or dealing cards. The physical is the easy part. Once done, you're left with the mental. Unless I'm missing something, behavior is the result of belief, which is all mental. And belief and bahavior must be congruent.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Salomon

Is it addiction when one takes anxiety medication on a daily or almost daily basis?

If so, why would taking anxiety meds be considered an addiction, while taking medicine daily for say, diabetes, a heart condition, high cholesterol, blood pressure etc be considered 'normal' and not an addiction?

Just curious...thanks.

pan6467

Are they prescribed and do you take as prescribed or do you take more than you are supposed to?

If you take more than you are supposed to, then it's abuse, and maybe addiction.

If it's of the benzodiazipine family (Xanax, Klonapin, Valium, Diazapam, Flourozpam, etc.) then you really should talk to a doctor because by the very nature of the med it leads to abuse and addiction and can be very deadly if taken over time and then stopped cold turkey.

I am not a big fan of pills for "anxiety" or "panic attacks", I have seen to many addicts from them and I have seen the Benzos totally destroy too many lives. Yet, the doctors and pharmaceuticals keep pushing them out.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Salomon

Thanks for the response.

My doctor has had me on klonopin&paxil for 3-4 years. I take as prescribed. My anxiety levels are off the hook at times, and the meds quiet that down in order to get things done. I probably fit the criteria of addiction. I go on with my life, things are fairly stable, and I don't see the need to suffer from anxiety 24/7 so I keep taking the meds.

thingstodo

If meds are taken to manage a medical condition - and done so under the regular supervision of a doctor, then I don't think it is an addiction. Most decent doctors that are involved in managing a condition won't let you become "addicted" to something. That's why they wait so long in pain management situations. You won't get the morphine or other opiates until you are so far gone addiction is the least of your worries - and your pain is probablky being managed to give you a better quality of life while you wait to die.

Most addicts become so because they "self-medicate."

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

dman2

I have to agree with you. My Dad is a recovering heroine addict. He had a real hard time about 2 weeks ago. He recently tried to quit smoking. He was using the nicotene patch. He started drinking red wine every night. At first, it was fine. One to two glasses per night turned into 3+. He started to drink a lot more than that due to stress,etc. He is a bit of a stuffer. It all came crashing down on him when my brother and I both had to go over there to convince him everything was ok. He was saying all kinds of things.

He is now smoking again and as far as I know, he is not drinking wine any longer. Oh well, he is in a better mood and smoking does not affect him on the outside as drinking. I don't have the heart to try and talk him out of smoking. As bad as it sounds. I would rather have my Dad who smokes, than not to have a Dad at all.

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I have to exercise in the morning before my brain figures out what I'm doing. ~Marsha Doble

thingstodo

Dude...I feel for you. And you are right - smoking is a much better alternative. Unfortunately, a drug addict cannot use any mind-altering substances. They will just become the next drug of choice or push them back to their original drug or something similar.

Rehab centers allow you to smoke and drink coffee, but that's it. And it's probably why most recovering addicts do both!

Good luck with your father. PM me if you'd like to hear some other "tough love" lessons I have learned over the past six years.

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If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.