Buying La. Property - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

arch13 · 08-31-2005, 08:32 PM

I understand that to some, the mere suggestion of this right now is horrid. I apologize if you feel that way and understand why you do. Heck, It bothers me that I can't seem to get this thought out of my mind.

How do others feel about the suggestion that now is the appropriate time to be purchasing land in downtown New Orleans since many want out and much of the property is worth little as it sits under water?

/*Ching* goes the machine as it punches my ticket.

I am however being serious. I guess I just like to see opertunities.

ratbastid · 09-01-2005, 05:51 AM

I imagine there will be lots of people pretty motivated to sell. Question is, are you interested in having an investment property where this sort of thing is likely to happen again, given enough time?

I don't know about downtown properties--those will likely be corporate-owned and it seems unlikely they'd be up for sale. But with residential properties, especially those completely drowned right now, I'd think you might be doing the current owners a favor to take it off their hands. I know if I owned a property there, I'd sort of rather have some quick cash for it than try to rebuild on it. I suspect there's a price point that's both attractive as an investment and makes a humanitarian difference for the seller.

How you'd go about negotiating that right now is another issue. Most homeowners are hundreds of miles away from home, and can't get back. It's not like you can drive around with a realtor and check out properties right now. Maybe in a few weeks there will be opportunities to buy springing up, but at the moment, I can't see how you'd accomplish it.

DDDDave · 09-01-2005, 06:35 AM

Great minds think alike......

The only problem I see, and it is a huge one, is the FEMA 50% rule. If more than 50% of the property is damaged by casualty, the entire property must be rebuilt to current codes. Rebuilding to current building codes is generally not that big a deal but raising the elevation of the property to above the flood plain line will be. This is a national requirement. I don't see anyway around it. That is why when barrier island homes are destroyed they get rebuilt on pilings/piers. Not because people want to but because they have to.

I honestly wonder if NO will ever even be rebuilt. There will be plenty of property that you will be able to buy for pennies on the dollar but will it ever amount to anything. As a real estate guy I would say there are better places to put your money where the return might be reasonably predictable. I hate carpetbaggers. I was raised to not take advantage of others misfortunes. BTW, I bought property in Charlotte county after Hurricane Charley, but I am developing it, and helping to improve the town by employing people and rebuilding the town.

I just read in one of my RE magazines that Trump had bought a couple of acres in downtown NO and planned on building a big condo/retail complex. Wonder how that's going to work out now?

Another case of Hurricane Amnesia.

arch13 · 09-01-2005, 06:58 AM

DDDave,

If the home or property is on the national registrar or is in an historic district, then you can proceed with restoration of the origional design and not have to meet any new codes as long as in doing so you stay true to the exterior visual history of the building.

That's part of why downtown is all that interests me.

DDDDave · 09-01-2005, 08:42 AM

Arch13,

You might want to look into what was done when Hurricane Hugo trashed Charleston, SC in 1989. Similar winds and storm surge. There were many historic structures damaged and destroyed. It might provide a clue as to how the NO rebuilding will go.

I personally don't think it is worth the trouble. As you know from your architecture schooling, most of the flooded buildings will have to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. I agree with you that you will be able to circumvent the 50% rule by using the historic structure/neighborhood designation, but the reality is that the structures will be ruined. We saw that here in FL. There were many homes and businesses that did not appear to be that badly damaged but due to water intrusion, were declared total losses. Many times the houses were structurally 'fine', but the power company would not turn the power back on due to hidden damage to the electrical wiring.

I see from your website that your interest is in historic restorations. I would contact a Louisiana architectural firm that has similar interests and see what they think.

Hey, if it were easy everybody would do it. Good Luck.

Rodney · 09-01-2005, 02:21 PM

Aside from all the issues above dealing with the sale itself, there are the "macro" issues:

*Will New Orleans actually be rebuilt? And on what timetable?

*How soon -- if ever -- before a functioning economy is reestablished?

Everybody's talking about bringing the city back, but the bills will be huge. And it really isn't the smartest place to have a city. It's possible that the feds will offer inadequate backing to do the job right.

Also, housing gets its value from the desirability of the surroundings and the amount of money sloshing around the local economy. Much of what makes New Orleans desirable is cultural, not physical (you can keep that weather). Will those cultural institutions return? Will the tourists return? Will industries want to return? Unless the answer to at least two out of those three questions is yes, New Orleans' prognosis for recovery is uncertain. And your investment may not pan out.

In any case: while you should start researching your ideas, I'd wait a few months to take action. See what the political and economic reality is. In any case, a lot of homeowners aren't going to start making decisions until their insurance settles. At that point, they'll decide whether to rebuild, or to just take the check and sell the house and lot for what they can. It'll probably be several weeks before the insurance claims adjusters will be allowed into the city, and there'll probably be a shortage of them.

pan6467 · 09-01-2005, 06:54 PM

As destroyed as that city is...... you could probably buy dirt cheap but I don't forsee any building being done as you would probably fall toward the bottom of the list..... even hiring your own would be near impossible.... due to the problems and the fact far more people, with much more money than you have will be hiring the workers away, and equip[ment will probably be hard to find among the many other obstacles...... ask people in Fla. about roofers....

Then you would probably be heavily taxed as the city government and federals and state would see the "carpetbaggers" and tax the hell out of them to rebuild the infrastructure.

My opinion, the risk is by far greater than any reward..... and if the reward was great, it would be a very long time before you even catch a sniff of it.

Besides, I'm sure there are corporations and people with HUGE bucks looking into your very idea.

If I were you and I had money to invest, I'd be putting it into companies that are going to be working on the rebuilding of New Orleans. Invest in land surveyors, engineers, architects, and those types of companies, there will be a few out there needing investors for equipment and such.

In a weird way, this may actually help the economy by giving 1000's jobs to rebuild the city. Have a feeling that area will see a nice economic boom..... but will it last? Will people put money into it????? Doubtful, places like Gulfport, and the like, maybe a better investment..... they are actually above sea level.....

Rodney · 09-02-2005, 07:37 AM

As I said above, economic prospects for a New Orleans recovery (and a good housing market) are iffy if businesses don't come back. See the story below:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...a071752D18.DTL

Quote:

Baton Rouge Swells in Katrina's Wake

Friday, September 2, 2005

(09-02) 07:17 PDT Baton Rouge, La. (AP) --

In the span of a week, Baton Rouge has become Louisiana's most-populous city — at least temporarily — and a big chunk of that growth is likely to be permanent, officials say.

Evacuees from the Hurricane Katrina-ravaged New Orleans area have poured into East Baton Rouge Parish, along with rescue personnel using the city as a home.

"Baton Rouge is now the largest city in Louisiana and it's going to be for quite a while, if not permanently," said Walter Monsour, the top administrator to the president of the city-parish government.

Before the hurricane hit, Baton Rouge already had such long-running problems as traffic congestion and jail overcrowding. Those problems figure to grow exponentially, Monsour said.

"Is there going to be chaos in the city? No. Is this going to mean a different way of life here? Absolutely," Monsour said.

A number of companies are relocating their offices from the New Orleans area to Baton Rouge and many are buying homes and entire apartment complexes to house their employees, Monsour said. Monsour said that with the New Orleans airport closed, air traffic at Baton Rouge's Metro Airport could easily from 700,000 passengers to 3 million passengers per year, he said.

"All those air carriers that we have been courting for years are suddenly asking to come in," Monsour said.

Metro Council member Wayne Carter said many of the companies that are relocating to Baton Rouge will likely stay.

"Did you know that Galveston and Houston were the same size before Galveston got hit by a storm?" Carter said.

08-31-2005, 08:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	Buying La. Property I understand that to some, the mere suggestion of this right now is horrid. I apologize if you feel that way and understand why you do. Heck, It bothers me that I can't seem to get this thought out of my mind. How do others feel about the suggestion that now is the appropriate time to be purchasing land in downtown New Orleans since many want out and much of the property is worth little as it sits under water? /Ching goes the machine as it punches my ticket. I am however being serious. I guess I just like to see opertunities. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

09-01-2005, 06:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	Great minds think alike...... The only problem I see, and it is a huge one, is the FEMA 50% rule. If more than 50% of the property is damaged by casualty, the entire property must be rebuilt to current codes. Rebuilding to current building codes is generally not that big a deal but raising the elevation of the property to above the flood plain line will be. This is a national requirement. I don't see anyway around it. That is why when barrier island homes are destroyed they get rebuilt on pilings/piers. Not because people want to but because they have to. I honestly wonder if NO will ever even be rebuilt. There will be plenty of property that you will be able to buy for pennies on the dollar but will it ever amount to anything. As a real estate guy I would say there are better places to put your money where the return might be reasonably predictable. I hate carpetbaggers. I was raised to not take advantage of others misfortunes. BTW, I bought property in Charlotte county after Hurricane Charley, but I am developing it, and helping to improve the town by employing people and rebuilding the town. I just read in one of my RE magazines that Trump had bought a couple of acres in downtown NO and planned on building a big condo/retail complex. Wonder how that's going to work out now? Another case of Hurricane Amnesia. __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson

09-01-2005, 06:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	DDDave, If the home or property is on the national registrar or is in an historic district, then you can proceed with restoration of the origional design and not have to meet any new codes as long as in doing so you stay true to the exterior visual history of the building. That's part of why downtown is all that interests me. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

09-01-2005, 08:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
DDDDave Addict Location: Sarasota	Arch13, You might want to look into what was done when Hurricane Hugo trashed Charleston, SC in 1989. Similar winds and storm surge. There were many historic structures damaged and destroyed. It might provide a clue as to how the NO rebuilding will go. I personally don't think it is worth the trouble. As you know from your architecture schooling, most of the flooded buildings will have to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. I agree with you that you will be able to circumvent the 50% rule by using the historic structure/neighborhood designation, but the reality is that the structures will be ruined. We saw that here in FL. There were many homes and businesses that did not appear to be that badly damaged but due to water intrusion, were declared total losses. Many times the houses were structurally 'fine', but the power company would not turn the power back on due to hidden damage to the electrical wiring. I see from your website that your interest is in historic restorations. I would contact a Louisiana architectural firm that has similar interests and see what they think. Hey, if it were easy everybody would do it. Good Luck. __________________ I am just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe... "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." - Thoreau "Nothing great was ever accomplished without enthusiasm" - Emerson

09-01-2005, 02:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Aside from all the issues above dealing with the sale itself, there are the "macro" issues: Will New Orleans actually be rebuilt? And on what timetable? How soon -- if ever -- before a functioning economy is reestablished? Everybody's talking about bringing the city back, but the bills will be huge. And it really isn't the smartest place to have a city. It's possible that the feds will offer inadequate backing to do the job right. Also, housing gets its value from the desirability of the surroundings and the amount of money sloshing around the local economy. Much of what makes New Orleans desirable is cultural, not physical (you can keep that weather). Will those cultural institutions return? Will the tourists return? Will industries want to return? Unless the answer to at least two out of those three questions is yes, New Orleans' prognosis for recovery is uncertain. And your investment may not pan out. In any case: while you should start researching your ideas, I'd wait a few months to take action. See what the political and economic reality is. In any case, a lot of homeowners aren't going to start making decisions until their insurance settles. At that point, they'll decide whether to rebuild, or to just take the check and sell the house and lot for what they can. It'll probably be several weeks before the insurance claims adjusters will be allowed into the city, and there'll probably be a shortage of them. Last edited by Rodney; 09-01-2005 at 02:25 PM..

09-01-2005, 05:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I imagine there will be lots of people pretty motivated to sell. Question is, are you interested in having an investment property where this sort of thing is likely to happen again, given enough time? I don't know about downtown properties--those will likely be corporate-owned and it seems unlikely they'd be up for sale. But with residential properties, especially those completely drowned right now, I'd think you might be doing the current owners a favor to take it off their hands. I know if I owned a property there, I'd sort of rather have some quick cash for it than try to rebuild on it. I suspect there's a price point that's both attractive as an investment and makes a humanitarian difference for the seller. How you'd go about negotiating that right now is another issue. Most homeowners are hundreds of miles away from home, and can't get back. It's not like you can drive around with a realtor and check out properties right now. Maybe in a few weeks there will be opportunities to buy springing up, but at the moment, I can't see how you'd accomplish it.

09-01-2005, 06:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	As destroyed as that city is...... you could probably buy dirt cheap but I don't forsee any building being done as you would probably fall toward the bottom of the list..... even hiring your own would be near impossible.... due to the problems and the fact far more people, with much more money than you have will be hiring the workers away, and equip[ment will probably be hard to find among the many other obstacles...... ask people in Fla. about roofers.... Then you would probably be heavily taxed as the city government and federals and state would see the "carpetbaggers" and tax the hell out of them to rebuild the infrastructure. My opinion, the risk is by far greater than any reward..... and if the reward was great, it would be a very long time before you even catch a sniff of it. Besides, I'm sure there are corporations and people with HUGE bucks looking into your very idea. If I were you and I had money to invest, I'd be putting it into companies that are going to be working on the rebuilding of New Orleans. Invest in land surveyors, engineers, architects, and those types of companies, there will be a few out there needing investors for equipment and such. In a weird way, this may actually help the economy by giving 1000's jobs to rebuild the city. Have a feeling that area will see a nice economic boom..... but will it last? Will people put money into it????? Doubtful, places like Gulfport, and the like, maybe a better investment..... they are actually above sea level..... __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"