leftyderek

So I have always been thinking about the 'grown-up' world, if you know what I mean, is not really anything beaufitul.

I know somehow it is a process that nearly no one can escape from. I know everyone around me will tell me, 'hey, Derek, you are not a kid anymore. Stop chasing your dreams, sit down and plan your future.' But I find 'growing up' so ugly and in a sense disgusting- get a job, get a car, get a family, earn money, behave well within the social norms, etc. I don't mean I want to stay childish and cry for mummy whenever I trip over a piece of stone on the playground. I mean staying young in the heart, not caring how the others see you, go on chasing your dreams, be spontaneous, have some personal identity and not being like everyone else, etc.

For the 'grown-ups' here, I would like to ask you all something actually. Do you remember the days that your heart is pure, without worries about money and work? Do you remember the days that you can stare at the sky and make up dozens of beautiful and interesting stories? Do you remember your dreams and goals when you were young? Did you actually try hard to make them come true? Where have your dreams gone? And your pure, spontaneous imagination?

Yes, I am merely 19 and this post might sound like some teenage rage about life. But it isn't. I have been thinking about such things for years. Bet you all have gone through/are still going through such a state of mind. Just wanted to know what you guys think about such an issue.

P.S. mods if this shoud go to the philosophy forum please do move it there. As a newbie I don't really know how I should classify this thread...

vanblah

First off no one ever has to set their dreams aside for a job, a car, a family, money and behaving well.

I have/do all of those things and I still cling to the hope that one day I will be able to support myself solely with music.

I'm 36, have a decent job, a wife and daughter, a couple of nice cars, a house. Having money coming in has enabled me to purchase things that I use to support my art:

computers, software, keyboards, a grand piano.

There is certainly a trade ... but you should never hang it up no matter what anyone tells you.

maleficent

Growing up doesnt necessarily mean growing old. While I'm not exactly a spring chicken any more, I still have dreams, and aspirations, and things I want to do, and will do. my career which gives me money, will allow for that to happen.

I still have been known to play, I still splash in puddles, I make smilie faces with the syrup on my pancakes, and have been accused of being down right giddy at times. I'm mature, but that doesn't mean I have to give up on what I wanted when i was 12. Those wants have changed, but I still want things for myself.

I no longer want to dance the nutcracker in Lincoln Center, now, I'd prefer front row center tickets for Giselle. My dreams are still there.

My imagination is definitely still there... How many people do you know can start a spontaneous game of pornographic hokey pokey in the chatroom... I can invent stories for kids and adults to get them to laugh, I can look for shapes in the clouds, I can write erotica that would curl your hair... My imagination is still there, it might not be monsters under the bed anymore, but it's still there.

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ngdawg

There is saying that goes: You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stopped playing.
Of course, responsibilites will be more as you get older-it's a fact of life. But, in keeping your dreams alive and your imagination active, you won't stagnate.
Growing older is a necessity, getting old is an option. Don't sweat what isn't here yet.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

ratbastid

Life really isn't an either/or proposition. You actually can have the best of all of it.

Carno

Yeah, I can feel myself changing... When I got to college I started having to worry about too much shit.. Loans, bills, etc.. All of it is money. I spend too much time stressing about how I'm going to pay for everything, and I do less of what I "want" to do and more of what I "have" to do.. I guess getting older means taking on more responsibility, and it's the burden of responsibility that ages you.

I still have my private dreams, but I don't see them happening anytime soon. Especially not if I accept my commission with the Marine Corps.. Then it'll be another 10 years before I could even have the option to carry out my dream. I still hope one day that I will get to do what I *really* want to do, but not anytime soon, not as long as money still rules my life.

Suave

I still have lots of dreams... fantasies might be a better word, but I don't see any need to make them into goals (never did as a child either). I personally like to think I've "grown up" or matured in only the most essential and positive ways. If you put enough concentration into it, you can shape the way you evolve through life, and you can retain certain attributes you really enjoy.

I see ratbastid was a bit more concise. Said the same thing though.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

vanblah

Just remember everything is a choice. No matter what you feel that you "HAVE" to do ... it's still a choice. It takes quite a while to fully realize this. I remember going through the "oh, crap, I've grown up" years. Thinking that I had no choice but to act a certain way.

Then, one day I realized that it was my choice all along. I didn't just say that it was my choice I actually felt it. That's when things got a whole lot better.

The angst lasted most of my 20's.

abaya

Yeah, the quarter-life crisis is no fun (being in your 20s, basically). I'm turning 26 next week and I have to constantly remind myself that everything I do is a choice (vanblah, good words), and that I am entirely responsible for myself. It's when I start wanting other people to take care of me that I start to feel weak and out of control. Sometimes yes, I do want my mom or dad to take care of me so that I don't have to make any decisions. But what kind of life is that, once you hit a certain age? Being a kid is great, but you're not really your own person, deserving of respect from other adults, until you buck up and start taking control of your life.

Remember that you are the one who chooses which dreams you want to go after, and that you don't need your parents to take care of you in order to do that. In fact, most parents are pretty good at getting in the way of their children seeking out their dreams, because if your parents hold all the purse strings, you have no freedom. So growing up, getting a real job, making big decisions on your own... take all these things as a sign of freedom, not as a burden. You can definitely still do everything you dreamed of doing as a child... you just have to juggle a few more things now, and that's an acquired skill that you will learn.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

abaya, wise words, and the rest of you above her, also wise words.

the things in live are burdens if you think of them as such. But facts of life are you need to make an income to put a roof over your head and food on the table. for some people that's all they want to accomplish in life, for others they want more.

the more, that's the challenge. i've always thought that i never had dreams, but recently in looking back in retrospect i have had a few dreams, i'm working on them now finally after sitting on one of them for close to 10 years.

you determine what you want to do in your life and what you are willing to do to achieve it. for some people they think that after putting in 8 hours that's all that they have in them. but people who chase their dreams put in another 8 hours to pursue it.

if you do the same thing every day and still expect different results, who's crazy? keep putting all the ingredients to make chocolate chip cookies, you'll always have chocolate chip cookies, change the recipe a bit, and voila! you have toll house cookies.

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leftyderek

Great responses. It's really great. I mean, somehow I know you can of course keep young while taking up responsiblities. I know a wonderful Swedish teacher who's probably in her 50s or 60s, and she's still a playful young child in her heart- and that's exactly how I want to be. Live according to what your feeling says, and at the same time being responsible and in a sense, sensible. She teaches well, she grows plants around the campus, she takes care of little lost animals and set them free, she makes up little funny stories, she plays in the puddles in the rain, she does little tricks to fool her own students for a good laugh...

I was just really unsure if she is the only example I have ever seen in my life- then I saw these replies and I know, oh, I can also be like that 10 years later coz now I know more people who're like that.

Sage

Martel and I were talking about this a few days ago...

I see it like this. There's two kinds of people in the world- those who are complacient, and those who always dream. I know a guy, father of one of my old friends actually, who has been working in the Tyson chicken plant for at least 25 years. Every single day he goes to the same job he had the day before, doing the same thing, making the same money. He even lives in the same house he moved into when he got married- a house built on his parents land, 100 yards from his parents house. He's 56 years old. He never had a dream, never wanted to persue a dream. To him, being "grown up" means being able to drink beer after you come home from work.

Now, I know tons of other people who have gotten the $8 an hour job with the crappy hours and sweated out the bills every month, but it's because they're working towards something. They know, and they're working towards, the fact that there is always something bigger and better out there.

Me? Well, I'm 22. One day I want to live in Hawaii, and one day I want to travel in Europe. I also want to be a jewelry designer. Right now, well, right now I HAVE to get a job and make money. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop looking forward to the day I get to do jewelry for 8 hours and make enough money to live off of. I work towards that goal by continuing to find inspiration for jewelry everywhere, by practicing my skills (limited as they are) until they're perfected, and by never, ever telling myself I can't.

Growing up is an illusion... you don't have to put aside the fun and joy in life just because you have to pay the bills. Just remember to seperate the bills from the fun stuff, and you'll be good to go!

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abaya

Wow, that's depressing. I mean, I guess it's good if you know that you don't have any dreams, that you just want to have a beer after work and never go anywhere in life... but wow, that's not for me. I'll shoot myself in the head the day I wake up and feel like that.

For me, growing up is all about HAVING dreams and WORKING on them, and having the freedom to do both of those things. Without those dreams I would become lifeless. Those are what keep you going beyond the 40-hour-a-week job, beyond the same old beer every night, working that extra 8-hours after work to make those dreams happen. I like the way you put it, Sage. I can tell we are kindred spirits...

So I guess I fall into the non-complacent group, according to Sage's categories. I have a hard time understanding the complacent group... if there is anyone out there who identifies with this, can you give me a better understanding of your perspective?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

shesus

I actually hate the 'grown-up' part of life. I despise the bills that I constantly pay. I don't like thinking about if I am prepared retirement. I really hate the push I am feeling to have a baby because the ole clock is ticking. Yet even with all that, I love what I have done with my life. I have met most of my dreams so I need to make some more, but I think that I have made it to the place where I can be content.

As for acting 'grown-up', well I still do the things like mal said: splashing in puddles, smiley face syrup, etc. I still lay in the park and make shapes out of clouds. I still have "what if" thoughts that are formed from my active imagination. You have to have a balance or you will go crazy.

I never saw getting a real job and gaining responsibilities as an end to my childhood thoughts. I saw it as a way to bring my childish thoughts and dreams into reality.

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vanblah

My take on the complacent type of person is that they have never been taught to really think or dream. The entire public school system is set up to produce "happy little workers" as opposed to philosophers. In addition, most people are afraid to think for themselves.

Of course, we're getting off track as far as this thread goes.

There are other kinds of complacence, so I'm referring to specifically the kind of people who are content to go to work and then to come home and drink beer while watching TV until it's time to go to bed.

Rinndalir

Absolutely nothing wrong with being a grownup. My goals are just a little more grounded than yours. Instead of dreaming about backpacking around Europe and coming up with the cure for AIDS and winning the Nobel, I dream about getting my house paid off and having no debt and enough money to afford a nice getaway for a week at least once a year.

I don't see what the big deal is. When I was young I had big dreams of being a successful writer but dreams don't pay the bills. So I channel my creative energy elsewhere now and don't pine over it. Who knows, maybe one day I'll write a bestseller and be a household name, probably not though. I'm not going to waste my time sulking over it though. I have a daughter to play with, and wife to screw silly, and a house payment to make, and an alternator to fix, and on and on. Instead of winning the Nobel my pipe dream is a 3way with my wife and her best friend. And I LIKE beer. If that makes me boring or mundane oh well...

Suave

I doubt that. If one day you wake up and you no longer feel the need to acheive a goal in order to be happy, you will be enlightened. The enlightened rarely shoot themselves in the head.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Sugarmouse

ive never changed my outlook since i was really little..i thnk one thing about growing up is that thinking you have to is one of the most immature things you can do...so long as youre happy and fulfilled...of course you have to be sensible and think of the future a little...but dont lose sight of whom you really are.

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Sugarmouse=Festered

Zegel

Everyone has different aspirations. Some are big, some are small. My dreams and aspirations would probably seem dull in yours and many others eyes, but they make me happy.

To reach our aspirations sometimes we must take a path that has nothing to do with them. Personally, I would like to live in a nice cottage in the woods with my wife, but not so far away from civilization that we have to leave our socal circles.

That's what would make *me* comfortable. However, making that move requires money, and aquiring enough money requires working for a lenghty amount of time. During the time that I've been working to fulfill my dream, I also met my wife and had a child. I now have other people to care for, and I doubt living in the woods appeals to my daughter (atleast, it wouldnt have to me as a kid, no fun!). So, for my forseeable future, atleast until the children are on their own, I'm working. I'll be providing them with an environment that is more fun and saving up to reach my dream home at the same time.

Am I giving into societies norms? I suppose so, but I'm damn happy doing it. Having a child means that I'll have to work longer and harder to reach my original dream, but that's a very small price to pay in my mind. I never dreamed of having and raising a child. Now I cant imagine of having a dream that didnt involve children.

abaya

Well, I don't mean that one has to dream of saving the world or whatever to be happy. I think that for me, dreaming IS being happy, sometimes... I think that's part of human nature, isn't it?

You seem to espose a Buddhist philosophy, which I respect... not needing to be attached to something, just accepting what is in front of you. But is there anything wrong with having goals? I don't think I need hard-line, Nobel-Prize goals to be happy... just little tasks that help me feel like I am doing more than living and dying on this earth, that I am leaving something behind that is helpful to others. Sometimes that's just talking with someone and listening to their problems during the day. But that's one of my goals, you know?... to be of service, somehow. To not constantly be "taking" from the world and not giving back. I dunno.

It's when I grow "comfortably numb" (thanks Floyd) with life that I start to despair. If I had to work, come home, drink beer, watch TV and go to bed every day... well, to be honest, that would be a living hell for me. I would really curl up and die inside. That's the kind of person I am. I'm not saying everyone has to be like that, but that's how I am. I crave being around people who have similar personalities, and I get bored and listless otherwise. Is that a personality deficit? (I'm honestly asking.)

Somedays I do wish I could just be content with the same thing, day in and day out... but I just can't be. I'm not wired that way. Maybe having a child will give me that sense of contentment someday (so that at least I'll have that daily goal of nurturing something, to improve the world somehow), but I'm not ready for that yet. Sigh.

See what I mean by quarter-life crisis?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran