Lewis

I've just recently started forex trading. Anyone else out there trying it? I've been going at it for a couple of months - paper trading - and it looks pretty good to me. In fact, it's the first thing I've been enthusiastic about for years, so I'd like to share my experiences with TFPers everywhere.

Having been in business for thirty years, I dont think I'm naive. After all, with currency trading no-one's going to go bust on you, because you are always trading pairs of currencies, and if you're sensible, you just trade the big ones. And you can limit your risk really tightly. I like the facts that I can make my day’s earnings before breakfast and then devote the rest of the day to doing whatever I like, I work from home, I don’t require any staff, I’m my own boss, I don’t have to stock or sell a product, I don’t have to wait for payment, and I can do it all anywhere in the world as long as I can access the Internet.

There are other advantages for me, too. Training to be a forex trader is fast and relatively cheap, when compared with the costs of embarking on other careers. Once mastered, this form of trading creates a much higher-than-average lifetime earning potential, and it does not involve having to find a job.

So basically, it seems to me to be a bit of a dream job situation.

Feedback, please!

wdevauld

Not a whole lot of feedback here, but questions that let you know how I'm thinking

1. What is the initial investment? Are you leveraged at some crazy high ratio, or did you put up the initial amount yourself?

2. What is the risk? As with most trading, you can stand to make a lot of money, coming with that is the fact that you can lose a lot of money. How are you hedging your risk in this particular case? If you make a bad choice how can you recover, and how hard is it?

3. You said: "Once mastered, this from of trading creates a much higher-than-average lifetime earning potential" How so?

4. What are your day-to-day costs? Do you have to pay fee/commission for each transaction? Do you need to spend a monthly fee having the trading houses' software on your PC? Is there a front/back end load on moving your money into and out of the trading house?

I've been in the equities market for some time, and I'm very much a buy-and-hold investor. If you find a good company, making money, invest in it and hold on. I can say you've intrigued the entrepenuer in me, but the sceptic wants more answers.

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As soon as you stop living, you start dying....

Lewis

Questions are as good as feedback!

1. You can get anything between 100:1 to 400:1 leverage depending on the account you open and the broker you use. You can start with as little as a US$300 account. With extremely conservative trading you can grow that to significant sums in a relatively short time.

2. You can manage the risk very tightly. It's all in the education and support as far as I am concerned. Becoming a good trader needs that. I work with an educational company, and they teach you never to risk more than 5% of your capital - and you only even do that after you are completely confident that you can do a high percentage of positive trades on a consistent basis. I am up to about 80-85% positive now, and still thinking I don't want to go over that psychological barrier into live trading. When I do, I want to be properly prepared. I see you live in Calgary. There is a very good support mechanism there for the people I am with.

3. There are two strands to this business. You can spend long periods trading, if you wish, or you can set it up so you only have to spend very short periods in front of your computer. Compounding modest profits over a year can lead you to extremely high earnings in, say, two or three years. PM me for more details. The other side of the business is networking it to others. This is pretty good as well. Add 20 people and you are talking over US$11,000 for starters. Then there are on-going redisuals that can make a nice income. The good thing about networking this rather than standard products like in other businesses, is that the product makes money for the 'purchaser', and can change lives for the better. Your success isn't dependent on some god-aweful networking plan for miracle products that you can't believe in!

4. I paid for a couple of one-day courses (US$2,000) and my on-going costs are the charts (presently 120 per month, but I'm going on to some amazingly helpful advanced charts for 250/month), and a chat room (40/month) which is incredible. There are hundreds of traders in each chat room, available most of the day, to discuss and learn from. There's no transaction fee, no front end/back end loading. You just pay the spread. There are downloadable demo accounts that are free, and there's no extra software to buy as it's all web-based.

The forex market appeals to me because of its inherent stability and the fluidity of it. There is no 'holding on' needed, because you can make money on the ups as well as the downs, and you don't have to look for a 'good currency' because they are always being traded against each other. I know of others who are trading equities, and frankly I can't see that it is as easy, as immediate in its potential, and as profitable (leverage?). It is subject to all the problems that we are all too aware of, and it isn't so transparent. No-one can control the forex market - at US$1.9 trillion per day, it's simply too big, but we can all shave little bits off the ebb and flow of the currencies moving around the world, based on the same information that the banks see when they trade.

But stay sceptical. I am, and I think it's healthy - especially for survivors!

soma

Phew.

Going from paper trading to real trading with 100:1 leverage would probably give me a heart attack. I haven't done any Forex trading, but I know that with stocks, you can have a leveraged account, play conservatively, and still get cleaned out. I guess what I'm try to say is ... ain't nothin easy.

But if Forex trading works out, more power to you.

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Having Girl Problems?

Lewis

I'm working on building a strong heart! Actually, I'm planning on 200:1, hopefully, but we'll see. It doesn't look that difficult if you stick to the rules, but I am expecting it'll take a year or so.

eribrav

I would add one more key question: Have you developed a true method to your trading? Can you write it down and explain it to someone else? Can you backtest it and show it has worked in the past? Can you establish what your odds of a winning trade are and (far more importantly) when you will cut the losers?

I can assure you, it is not going to be easy. Essentially everyone you will be trading against is going to have more experience, more knowledge, and better skillls than you, at least for several years. Paper trading is a great way to learn but realize that when you have real money on the line, it's going to feel a lot different.

Lewis

Hi eribrav,

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I have a true method for my trading shown to me by the training company that I work with, and yes, they encourage you to write it down. Sorry though, they wouldn't have much of a business if I wrote it down for you and everyone else on the internet! Yes I can show it has worked in the past, yes I know what my odds are and yes I know when to cut the losers. That's not to say I'm good at it yet, and that I don't make mistakes and don't allow fear and greed in sometimes.

Whether it proves to be easy or not is something only time will tell. Yes, I am sure there are lots of people with better skills than me, but actually I'm not trading 'against' anyone. This market is big enough for all of us, and all the traders I know and deal with are amazingly supportive. Everyone wants everyone to do well. Unique in the business world, yes?

As I mentioned, the psychology of swapping from paper to live is one that I don't take lightly, but again, the education and support is there for me, and I can start off with very low risk (if I want, I can start with a US$300 account). So, I can let the money grow with my confidence.

Lewis

Just another quick thought eribrav: it actually makes no difference to me or anyone in the forex trading business how well or badly anyone else is doing. No-one can influence my earnings (or losses) other than me. I have learnt the hard way that what you put out there is what you get back. If you believe it's going to be difficult, it will be, and vica versa. This business takes a certain amount of 're-programming' of established and useless beliefs about life that are drummed into us from an early age. I know for myself, that my life changes in all areas according what I am feeling, thinking and believing inside - just as it does for anyone else.

eribrav

Ok, since I don't trade FOREX, you'll have to fill me in on one thing.

When you trade equities, it is indeed possible for "everyone" to win, in the case of all the owners of a rising stick. In the very short run, trades tend to have a winner and a loser; somebody is making money and someone else is losing. In the options market, where I also trade, it is truly a zero sum game. If I make a dollar, someone else lost it and vice versa. So can everyone win at FOREX at the same time? Isn't there always going to be a losing counterparty on the other end of your winning trade?

Lewis

This is the great thing about FOREX. Nobody loses because you are trading PAIRS of currencies (not single entities) in a market that's bigger than ALL of the other markets put together. With the advent of the internet, anyone can now do what the banks have been doing for years (with everyone's money). And it isn't a 'zero sum game'. The FOREX market is like the sea. The tide goes in, the tide goes out. Currencies go up and down, but this way you can gain either way. If it's on an up you buy, on a down you sell (effectively buying the other currency in the pair you are trading). All you pay is the spread (to the broker). At a conservative estimate, if you do 20 pips a day you can get 40%ROI per month. It's unheard of anywhere else.

wdevauld

If I wanted to look more into this, what is this support system? How could I find it?

The sceptic again. I find it hard to swallow your 40% ROI / mo. If the Forex market was that lucrative, everyone would be doing it. How many times have you posted a 40% gain in a month? How common is it? Why isn't this seemingly simple and inexpensive way of making money more well known?

__________________
As soon as you stop living, you start dying....

Lewis

I think that if you or anyone else wants t o take this further, just PM me and I can send you some details. I see that I can't add attachments to messages I post.

I found the 40%ROI hard to believe as well, as would anyone with experience of working in the financial markets. It's really quite simple though. I am still learning but I know plenty of people who have done 40% and more. But you don't have to believe me. I can show you how to work it out for yourself.

I think one of the reasons why not many people are aware of this are that it is pretty new for a start. It's only in the last few years that, thanks to the internet, anyone can have access to the financial markets. Secondly, there are plenty of people out there who don't have very good systems who probably experience a 'boom and bust' situation, and therefore don't keep going in it. There is, therefore, an aura of high risk around this type of trading that needn't be true. There are always risks, but you can learn to manage them. As I said before, I think the educational side of it is key. The company I am working with is, I believe after my research, about the best. That's why they are one of the fastest growing in the country. They have thousands on board now, all around the world.

Also, I think now is a good time to get in. When China unpegs from the US$, those who can do this will be in a very strong position.

Sauron5

ya, im sceptic. there's no free money (ie: money comes from somewhere, you have to take it from somebody), and when you start talking about pyramid scemes ("The other side of the business is networking it to others.") it's just the bs shining through .

And currency trading isn't anything new.

Lewis

I'm just sharing what I have experienced. Are you, or are you simply spouting ideas and talking from your prejudices? So where is the bs here?

I thought it might help others if they knew about this. There is a collective belief that there is no free money, and I have outlined the costs involved earlier in this thread. Of course there's a cost, and part of that cost is the learning curve.

On the 'pyramid' side, there is a major difference with this, as I have mentioned, in that it's the product that generates money here, and not the network marketing as is the case in the old pyramid schemes. Frankly I don't see that the network marketing is where you make the real money here, but it can be a useful support while you're building up your skills, and it's a great educative device. I can explain that too, if you like.

There are a lot of very mature, intelligent and successful people doing this, and I have met many of them. Amongst them there are a lot the types of people you meet anywhere - tradesmen, teachers, salesmen etc. They are not stupid, they were simply open to new ideas, and it is clearly working for them. I saw that potential for me too.

This isn't for everyone, but those that do embrace it have a great opportunity. but even then, it's like it being in a class at school - each pupil gets the same education. Some do well, others don't. It's up to you, your attitude and your ability.

Sauron5

spouting ideas and talking from prejudices? yea, there's something wrong with my opinions? I doubt it, and haven't been caught wrong on these sorts of issues often. and prejudices? how is that not realated to past experience? I think you might believe this so I'm not attacking you personally. But you opened the thread describing a 'dream job' and asking for feedback. Then you turned into a salesperson.

Lewis

Well, thanks for the feedback. It's always good to hear alternative opinions.

If you think it sounds like salesmanship, it's really just enthusiasm, and it helps me to reassure myself that I have got all the angles covered. If you re-read the thread, you can see that I am not actually selling this to anyone. If anyone's interested though, I can tell them more if they PM me, but I don't think TFP is the place to sell things. It's a place for discussion.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with your opinions. I am sure you have good reason for them. I used to think like that as well about this sort of things - based on negative experiences that lead me to become prejudiced - so it's been a bit of a personal breakthrough for me to open up to, and reap the benefits of, something new that I would most likely have rejected in the past and would have missed out on.

Lastly, I agree that currency trading is not new at all, but the way the ordinary person can now be successful at it, with the right training, for very little risk and start-up cost, is fairly new. I know that when I first looked at it, it was a very risky business and only for people with plenty of spare cash that they could afford to lose.

Sauron5

You seem like a reasonable (or at least friendly) person, and I hope you don't lose too much money over this. My advice is to set goals as far as how much you hope to 'earn', and never be afraid of letting go if it's not working out. Trading can often resemble gambling. At the very least, don't tie yourself you one single company who's going to make you rich.

Lewis

I absolutely agree! Goal-setting is essential. Fear and greed are your two worst enemies here. Knowing when to get in and out of trades is also something I work on a lot with the training. This type of system does take the 'gambling' aspect out of it though. I wouldn't be doing it if it was like a trip to Vegas. It's a new profession for me, with its rules and practices that are best observed. When you manage the risk, it's no more risky than any other job, and a hell of a lot more profitable and advantageous. However, I do realise that Ferraris aren't going to drop out of the sky and into my lap with this. It's like any other skill you develop, it takes a little time. More for some than for others.

And there's no need to tie yourself in with a company. I'm using one for training purposes, but I can use any brokerage firm (or firms) I like. The whole point of this, for me, is to achieve freedom, flexibility and independence.

It's been good talking with you.

Merlocke

Regarding Foreign Exchange, it's an excellent way to move into the "I" Quadrant for those of you that read Kiyosaki's work (Rich Dad Poor Dad). It's from the 2nd book, Cashflow Quadrant.

<a href=" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=wealthcreat06-20&creative=9325&path=external-search%3Fsearch-type=ss%26keyword=Rich%20Dad%20Poor%20Dad%26index=blended">Great Financial Literature</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=wealthcreat06-20&l=ur2&o=1" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

I'm part of the FX Trainer group myself, and although it's a great introduction, there is so much more to learn out there. Like many people I look upon the network marketing part of the program with disdain because of companies in the past *ahem* "Quixtar" *ahem* that sell overpriced products, etc. I'll be the first to admit that although FX Trainer charting is nice, there is a lot of Free charting software out there that you can find easily with a simple Google search.

History wise - in the beginning I was rather reckless, but got lucky and managed to double my account in a matter of months. After learning a thing or two - there are much easier and safer tactics to follow that ensure a decent level of growth with minimal risk. For those of you that want to get started, the only advice I have to offer is to keep your eyes and mind open, and to pick a trading system that suits YOUR personality and mindset. Don't just be a sheep and follow the crowd because that's what gets your account emptied very quickly. Set a target, and go for it. Have an exit strategy ready at all times because used properly, or improperly, the market will give you what you are looking for. Playing with fire for too long always leaves the propensity to get burned, but straying too far you get cold.

In any case, I wish you luck in your trades.

If you're looking for some good reading as far as best practices without a specific system being held above the rest, I've found this book to be an excellent source:

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=wealthcreat06-20&creative=9325&path=external-search%3Fsearch-type=ss%26keyword=The%20New%20Market%20Wizards%26index=blended">The New Market Wizards</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=wealthcreat06-20&l=ur2&o=1" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

Happy Trading!

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-=[ Merlocke ]=-

Lewis

Hi Merlocke! Good to hear from you again after such a long time. I agree totally with all that you are saying, and I'll check out those books.

I agree about following the crowd in particular. I have a new maxim: 'Listen to others but learn on your own'. Your own personal goals are much more relevant to you than trying to follow others, and finding the way that works for you is key.

wdevauld

Not True. There is closed systems of money, but the international currency exchange is not one of them. It is true that if you are trading on the futures market or even playing poker, there is only so much money in play. In order for you to make money someone else has to lose it. This is not true for the currency markets, as each country has the ability to generate more money. There is far more money on the planet now, than there was 10 years ago. Since the currency market depends on so many indicators, not just the amount of money printed in a particular country (Although it does effect CPI, and eventually the ratio towards other currencies), it is possible for money to be 'generated'

What intrigues me the most about this is the difference in numbers. I've done some research and there are people out there touting 400% in a month. Some training programs have testimonies of month after month of 40%+ returns. If you can truely come up with a systematized way of making 40% per month, why isn't eveyone doing it? Why are we not seeing 'Currency Houses' which take your money and use their system to get the 40% return, take off 5% as a 'management ratio' and let you have the 35%? Playing the spread game is what has made the banks rich....

This just seems a little too sweet to me, but I'm skeptical by nature and by training.

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As soon as you stop living, you start dying....

Yakk

I'd guess that money flows into the Forex traders via importers/exporters. They aren't aiming to make money off currency trading, and they are willing to take a small loss to not have to bother with it.

Secondly, any trading system should be adapted and made unprofitable by the market in the medium term. Too many people stumble onto it, including some with real money, and the very movement of their money should deprofitize the trading system.

However, in the short term, it should be possible to find and exploit market failures.

In the long term, there are 3 ways to make money: steal it, gamble for it, or provide some valueable service for which you are highly qualified for to people.

On the other hand, a reliable 40%+ month-over-month trading profit is a sign that a cost or a risk hasn't been factored in yet.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Lewis

I think that, as we said before, it's good to be skeptical.

But this is interesting. To date, 228 visits have been made to this thread. I'm simply saying I've found something that seems to work really well, and has the potential to work a hell of a lot better perhaps than any other scheme that is discussed on this group, and while some are discussing it with me, for the most part people are either passing on it, giving me reasons why it isn't a good thing or expounding their own theories on it that they have developed.

So, maybe that's the reason why everyone isn't going for it. It takes a certain openness to simply explore the idea, with an open mind, in order to come to an informed conclusion about it. Not many people seem to be prepared to do that. It's not for everyone, but to my mind it is certainly worth examining before dumping it in the 'implausible' bin.

wdevauld

I think we're being open, or we wouldn't still be here. I like the idea of trading on the currency market, and I know that it is not some 'get rich quick' sceme. Like anything in life, you are going to have to work for it.

Right now, my work is making sure I have all my questions answered before I step into the water. So, some more questions:

1. What broker/dealer to do you use to trade? Do they have a monthly fee, or is the spread sufficient? How do you get money in/out? Is there a fee associated with moving your money in and out of your account?

2. Do you know of somewhere you can get a live or even delayed feed of data (Bid/Ask) without stripping it from a website? (RSS would be great!)

3. How much time, seriously, do you spend on this stream of income? I know you could execute all your trades in a couple hours in the morning, but do you spend the rest of the day thinking of your money and doing research?

__________________
As soon as you stop living, you start dying....

Lewis

I wasn't talking about you !

1, There are a range of brokers. In fact, you can choose who ever you like. There is no monthly fee, just the spread. You can get the money very quickly - no fuss. There is no fee associated with moving the money in and out of your account with the brokers that I will be using.

2, When you do the basic course you get the charts free for a month, so you can practice. There are sites out there that offer various feeds, but I haven't made a note of those I came across. A Google search will reveal some, I'm sure. And you can open as many demo accounts as you like to practice on. They are exactly the same as live accounts except that you are not using real money.

3, I don't spend more than three hours at a time trading, unless there is something special happening. I am also moving towards spending less time than that, as I can now receive SMS alerts to let me know when things are happening. This allows me more quality time away from the computer, and more quality time on it! That is, I am moving to a situation where I don't have to sit and wait at the computer for currencies to move. Even now, though, because we know when the busiest times are likely to be, time at the computer is minimized.

I don't spend every day doing research. Some days I schedule in some time to learn more about trading, but thankfully it isn't really necessary to study the markets and become very knowledgable about finance, politics and everything else that impacts on currency movements. Some days I go to head office for more (free) training and advice sessions and workshops, and it's good to keep talking to others as you can gain from their experiences. There are helpful support groups as well, as I mentioned before. Frankly though, the whole point of me doing this was to generate control over my time and thus improve the quality of my life, rather than being driven by insatiable business demands.