Jinn

I'm posting this thread seperately rather than hijacking the ongoing thread by a similar name: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=90503 because my SO and I had a discussion about whether or not this phrase was offensive. I believe we both had valid positions, and I do not want to discredit either but I was curious what the "majority" thought.

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Glory's Sun

Is it offensive? To me no. To someone else, obviously. Of course I'm a guy..so I may not know what it's like to be called a bitch or ho in every other song

Redlemon

My first thought when I read the original thread title was "if you refer to women as "hos", you'll be hanging with your bros, 'cause you won't get any women". I considered mentioning this, but decided to simply skip the rest of the thread.

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eMOTIONal20

This phrase is offensive to me, and I know a few other women who posted on the other thread felt it was as well. This is because I believe the phrase is gender biased, and the word "ho" is a gendered insult. This is the common phrase used, but "bros" doesn't really refer to a woman's friends (I don't call my friends bros), and we can't exactly call our SO's "hos." We (women) could come back with saying something like, "chicks before dicks." But "chicks" in turn, will still offend some women. So what do we do? Drop the phrase all together or find a new one? Or just tell the women to shut the hell up and let the phrase be the way it is? I'm not exactly sure what to do. I came up with a phrase that is essentially a little less biased-- "bros before SO's." However, such a phrase is hard to change without people beginning to use it.

I would never try to change the world with my feminism and "stop using gendered insults toward me and my people" (hehe). I would just wish for people to take a look at what they do and what they say... perhaps to be more conscientious about what is offensive to a large group of people. That's all. Perhaps it's asking too much. Who knows.

I give up for the day.

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SiN

Voted "No. It's just a rhyme for ease-of-memory and is not meant to insult.".

Female.

No problem with it whatsoever.

(unless it was! meant as an insult).

hell, i call people 'ho' sometimes.

/me looks @ guccilvr

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stevie667

I didn't take offense because i saw no offense meant. I wouldn't use the term in coversation, but i know exactly what it means, and that there is no offense meant in the context it was used, rather merely something people will instantly recognise.

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Rdr4evr

I voted No. Some people need thicker skin.
it's not offensive in the least, and anyone who thinks otherwise is heavily sensitive.

Jesus Pimp

Maybe I should of re-worded to giggalos before hos or hos before giggalos..

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TM875

People with gigantic chips on their shoulders need to get over themselves. The phrase stems from a distinct, oftentimes common, occurance of the man putting his woman before his friends.

Perhaps it is meant to offend. Those that are easily offended by comman phrases are generally the type of women to pull said guy away from his male friends. Just perhaps.

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la petite moi

I did not reply in that thread because I was offended. Like Redlemon says, if you use that phrase, you're most like going to be sticking with your "bros."

maleficent

and there are probably even more women that put their 'man' ahead of their women friends...

I know how the phrase was meant... and it doesn't make it right to refer to women as ho's... It's wrong and it's demeaning...

/me adjusts chip on shoulder and wanders off to the next thread...

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Lead543

Just because it rhymes (sort of) doesn't make it right.

Even the "friends before lovers" phrase for women is offensive.

"Chicks before dicks"

It's the type of thing you raise an eyebrow at, shake your head and move on.

eMOTIONal20

I don't appreciate the assumption that women who are offended by being called something that demeans them are the "type" of women who pull a man away from his friends. I don't believe that "stealing" a man away from his friends is a gender issue, it's a maturity and insecurity issue... on both sides of the relationship. I do not want/have never wanted/will ever want to take my SO away from his friends. And I am still offended by these so-called "common phrases." I'm wondering how using a certain phrase just because it is common and is the norm makes it so right? So the appropriateness of something is justified because the majority does/says it?

*chip on shoulder gets bigger*

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zen_tom

If someone is offended, it's offensive. Simple as that.

Am I offended? No, but I might think twice before posting under a topic with such a title. I wouldn't want anyone to think (even mistakenly) that I thought of women as whores, or that I belonged to the kind of culture that treated women that way.

A rhyme for ease of memory? What is so difficult to remember about the topic that you need to use a mnemonic?

Normally, I wouldn't say anything, because I think everyone is free to post how and what they like. I'm only giving you my opinion, because you asked for it.

StanT

I can't say that I'm offended, but it's not a term I'd use without intending insult. (Like the stupid 'Ho that almost hit me on my motorcycle)

filtherton

So i'm relatively certain from your post that if i called your mother a whore-ass cunt to her face and she got offended, it would be due to her thin skin? I'm not actually doing so, i'm just wondering where you draw the line.

Jesus Pimp

Sorry but you're taking it out of context. Would you be offended if I referred to your mom as a MILF? Would you be offended or take it as a compliment?

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maleficent

That's not exactly a flattering thing to say to someone... It's not a compliment... How about - your mom is a very attractive woman.. Saying you'd like to fuck her - is about as bad as calling her a ho...

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Ustwo

Offensive? No, not really.
Juvenile? Yes most defiantly.

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filtherton

I wouldn't be offended, but just there you would've solidified your position in my mind as a douchebag. I don't care much for the attitude that somehow it is acceptable to distill people down to sex objects, that somehow people should be flattered that some complete stranger would fuck them.

I'm not taking it out of context, i'm just pointing out that is silly to think that people who get offended by certain words have a chip on their shoulder or just need thicker skin. If you disagree, well, then, your mother just finished lapping up my hot steaming jism after sucking me off with a picture of you taped to my stomach.

Tusko

the usage of the term "hos" and the reasoning behind it is specific.

"bros before hos" is generally used in a negative manner anyway (got my heartbroke, friend ditched us for girlfriend etc etc)

so, it's not "friends are put before good, logical girls"

but rather "friends are put before hurtful, lying, etc etc etc"

d*d

I initially thought that this was a thread about the band 'bros', then i thought that maybe the word broshos was in some way an insult from another language - then I realized it meant brothers before whores in the ghetto sense and thought, 'what a stupid thread' I wouldn't find this insulting - but thats because It's not a style of language I would ever use and I doubt the original poster uses it as part of his daily vocabulary when interacting with women. Unless of course he's a G

Jesus Pimp

Well according to the polls the "majority" doesn't find the slang term hos offensive. Something must be wrong with society.. Those chips must be getting really heavy just about now..


Watch out for the prudes!

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Prince

No. They're just words.

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filtherton

The next time someone gets on me about using the word nigger i'll have to write them off as having a chip on their shoulder. I'll be all like, "Poor Old Nigger Thinks It's A Cadillac, is just for ease of memory." Yeah, that's it.

Redlemon

An interesting distinction, although I think that there is overlap between the concepts. It is juvenile to find humor in simple offensiveness, and takes as much mental effort as a fart joke.
I don't think anyone would consider the TFP to be a representative slice of any population! And, that is also the reason why I didn't post in the original thread; I already knew that this is how the poll would turn out. I'm in the TFP minority on this subject, and I didn't feel like raising a stink.

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Squishor

I didn't say anything in the original thread because it was obviously intended in a lighthearted way, but yes, I find it offensive. I am by no means the kind of woman who gets between a guy and his friends, either. Being offended at being called a whore doesn't make a person oppressive and juvenile.

I don't have any "bros" and I don't know any "hos," to take it literally. I understand that "ho" has become a common way to refer to women in general and I can't think of a more disrespectful way to label them, unless someone comes up with a catchy, rhyming way to say someone eats turds and maggoty dead dogs with their breakfast cereal. It's not that I don't have a sense of humor (I do) but this is along the same lines as blanket racial insults. Then again maybe I'm just old-fashioned because I've noticed that sometime in the last few years the word "pimp" became cool. That's another word I wouldn't use, unless I was referring to the scum of the earth. Pimps as role models makes me roll my eyes in disgust. I have to wonder if people have ever met a real pimp? Ever turned a trick? Murderers and drug dealers are cool too I guess. I've known a few of these people and I wouldn't want to be lumped in the same category as them, either. In fact I probably wouldn't even want to be in the same room.

I know all this stuff comes from rap music and the thing people have to remember is, not everyone is immersed in that world the way they are. These are not common phrases in the big picture. It's scary when folks have lost their perspective to the point that they think that's a normal way to talk about other people.

I have a problem with words being used so inaccurately and then if enough people hear it enough times, they start to just accept it because some guy on the radio just said it 50 times. I think words are powerful things because they carry meaning and we should use them carefully.

skinnymofo

considering it was coined by males, i would have to agree with you. Although its just a phrase teenaged-college guys use when guys instead of hanging out with them, go and only hang out with their girlfriends for sex. Now, you can say you dont keep your guy away from his friends, but its the guys choice to go after what he wants from the female than with the boys. This is whats assumed and i use that word on purpose. Just lighten up people, it relates entirely to the phrase "pussy whipped" and if your offended by that phrase as well.. well then im sorry.
You do? i hate to say it but you sound like the people who blame video games and tv for violence.

btw i voted the last option

Squishor

No need to start getting personal here. You don't know me. And no, I'm not one of "those people."

Cynthetiq

There was a comedian that I recall something to the effect of....

"I find it interesting that women will be very upset if you called them ho's but put them on the dance floor and when the DJ calls out for the Bitches and Ho's you see them get all excited waving their hands and dancing even more vigorously."

I think that given the right context, things are fine.

IMO People have just removed all senses of context for everything that they find offensive. The nature of the item is offensive, but put into conext it works.

I also am finding that as I get older, I don't care so much for offensive (to me) materials and I go out of my way to make sure that I avoid them. In a way then it becomes a circle of non exposure and less tolerance towards that offensiveness, so I'm learning to tackle them head on but on my own terms and timeframe.

I was watching a show in Trio "Sick Humor" (totally becoming a favorite channel of mine) that discusses exactly this form of "sick humor".

If anyone is interested in seeing the 1/2 hour show PM me.

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Glory's Sun

/slight thread hijack here**

Cyn the reason the girls get excited by us DJ's is because they know we have the magic fingers

hehe

I think it's also a matter of where/how you grew up. I grew up in a super religious home and so I was always rebelling and doing what I wanted. I hung out with a pretty rough crowd. Talk like this was the norm. **However** I don't really use those words on a daily basis in my descripter of girls. I usually call them chicks

Ustwo

I suppose I don't find it offensive because it is juvenile and I expect kids say stupid things. You are not offended by a toddler who soils their pants, and likewise I am not offended by a immature adult who soils himself verbally. It takes a level of respect before one could really be offended by something, and I assume they are still learning how to interact at an adult level. Most people go through this kind of stage and it would be hypocritical to be offended when I myself had a period where I said stupid and offensive things in that transition from child to adult.

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Redlemon

Another good point, Ustwo. I revise my first statement to say I consider the use of the phrase in question "stupid and immature", not "offensive".

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filtherton

I think one important thing to acknowledge is that no one person is the sole arbiter of what is or isn't offensive. It seems arrogant to me to pretend that anyone who doesn't share your arbitrary taste for ribald or sexist language is somehow oversensitive.

skinnymofo

i was not trying to say you were one of those people. only that a generalized statement that says "its raps fault people are saying that" is on the lines with such things as that.

and off topic and in the sense of humor to lighten the thread up a tad. Whenever i hear anyone say "You dont know me" i just have crazy flashbacks to maury episodes with the outrages 12 year olds.

Prince

I understand what you mean, and agree with it to a degree, but... Just as I do not define what is offensive to you, you don't define what is oversensitive to me.

Being offended by the OP's quote is, by my ribald standards, oversensitive. And that, along with my right to that opinion, is equally deserving of acknowledgement.

Not that you were addressing me, but... the Kleenex are already on the table, there's no stopping this train now.

Some people find this offensive, others find that offensive. It's not only pretty natural to be offended by something, nowadays it's practically a cultural thing. You have to be upset and offended over something. Otherwise, what's the point of existing?

I get called "bro" by some random males all the time, but somehow, no matter how much it pisses me off, I've managed to keep my knuckles in my pockets. After all, I'd hate to be oversensitive about it.

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Squishor

I must have misinterpreted your tone because I thought it sounded sarcastic and condescending. Sorry if I did.

I think what I was trying to say was more along the lines of "people who are immersed in a particular subculture should keep in mind that not everyone sees things from their perspective." Something you're used to hearing every day might take someone else by surprise or offend them, and their point of view is no less valid. Just like I might not be shocked at hearing profanities or seeing someone doing drugs or walking down the street naked, but I wouldn't expect everyone to take it in stride the way I would. Sorry I don't know what you're taking about with the Maury episodes though.

Some people take language a lot more seriously than others - I'm one who takes it seriously, and you aren't, so we just disagree on that point.

kutulu

If it is some sort of slang you can without a doubt know that someone will get their panties in a bunch over it.

TM875

My mother would probably shoot back at you with something far wittier.

I believe that labels, regardless of what they are, are pointless and a person has no need to get upset by them. There is nothing that you could call me (in the lingustic sense of the word) that would upset me. The intent that you have behind it, though, is different.

For example, in college if my buddy wanted to spend the night with some woman in our room, and I needed to wake up early the next day, a comment of "bros before hos, dude" would make him think twice and change his actions in order to support his friend (who has known him, and been there for him, far longer than this random chick that he picked up). However, used in the context of, oh I don't know, maybe referring to his wife , then it would be different and possibly offensive.

Regardless, words are not offensive. They are l-e-t-t-e-r-s that are placed together to represent a physical thing or idea. Anyone who is offended by any word, on the basis of what the letters spell alone, needs thicker skin.

That's exactly how everyone I know uses it.

Amen, brother.

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ShaniFaye

If somebody started a conversation with me using that word, I can most definately say that I would disregard anything that came after it just as unmeaningful

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