Meridae'n

I've noticed lately that a few people here go to the gym a bit. I've never actually thought about starting a thread like this as I thought it would be a waste of time as it's hard enough to get people to stick to a program that works in real life, let alone someone you can only converse with on the net.

When I was 19 I worked as a personal trainer in the gym in my home town of Deniliquin, mostly as the two girls who ran it knew a whole lot about fitness but not alot about weight training. It was fairly informal, I'd help people who ask for it, and because I loved it I got alot of custom. I read a lot about weight training those days as I had previously had a knee-reconstruction which had ended any dreams I had of playing Rugby League professionally, but the weight training bug stuck with me.

Anyway, I had the chance to put alot of methods I read about to practice on both myself and many others, and seen what works and what doesn't.


Firstly I'd like to list a few truths...

1) WEIGHT TRAINING IS HARD WORK. It's about triggering a survival mechanism in your body that forces it to grow in order to protect itself. Your body will try to conserve energy at all costs, which unfortunately means it will do everything in it's power to minimise muscle mass to the bare minimum. Only hard work will convince your body that it needs to retain greater amounts of muscle for survival.

I can imagine you are saying "well, duh", but you may be the same person who finds a reason not to do all the hard exercises and therefore give yourself no chance at gaining any muscle.


2) MACHINES ARE USELESS. Well, not all of them, but definately the majority. You need to be either moving your trunk through space or using freeweights, preferrably the former. The reason? Your ultimate aim is to get stronger, as only increased strength will result in muscle gain. You can't do that with machines, sorry. I know they look cool, but they are a waste of your fucking time.


3) BICEP CURLS WILL NOT MAKE YOUR ARMS BIGGER. But gee, don't I look cool swinging these dumbells around. See all those guys hitting their Bi's from every conceivable angle? Fuckwits. For starters your Biceps are very small, and therefore tire very easily. If you want big arms, strive for a big chest and back. Two of the most impressive sets of guns I've ever seen belonged to two blokes who never worked arms... one of them being Derek Boyer (google him, he's a bouncer in Albury and frequent World's Strongest Man contestant). Unfortuneately this point lost me about half of my male clients.

The reason they wont make your arms bigger is this, perhaps the most important thing you'll read in this post...

YOUR BODY GROWS AS ONE COMPLETE UNIT. Yup, that means that you can't just grow muscle on one past and not another. Don't like that? Tough. Sure, those blokes doing bench presses and Bicep curls every day might experience little gains, but believe me, it wont be much. You need to be working every part of your body, and all of them equally hard, if you want to see any gains.


4) ONLY A PROGRAM THAT INCORPORATES COMPOUND EXERCISES WILL WORK. I'm just being a prick now aren't I. By 'compound exercises' I mean those that require two or more joints to be in use directly. Of course simple exercises have their role, but it's only a small one. That means Leg Extensions are out, and Squats are in. Pec Deck is out, Bench Presses are in. Catch my drift?


To be continued...

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What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Meridae'n

5) 40 MINUTES IS THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF TIME YOU SHOULD BE SPENDING IN THE GYM. Period. Seems a little small doesn't it... Levels of Growth hormone and testosterone tend to skyrocket after about 25-27 minutes, then die in the arse after about 40. Anything after that is useless. Don't worry, when we piss all those arm exercises and machine sets off it's plenty. I've vomited after a 20 minute workout before, believe me.


6) 5 WORKING SETS IS THE MAXIMUM YOU SHOULD DO ON ANY BODYPART. If you can't hurt yourself sufficiently with 5 working sets, you simply aren't having a decent go.


7) NO SPOTTERS. You're there to build your chest, not some other dudes shoulders. We want to shock your body, and although it looks silly, that bloke grunting as he struggles to keep the bar from falling let alone moving it up is doing the most for himself in the whole place. You will learn how to exucute the exercise properly without one.

This is gunna be longer than I thought...


8) WARM UP SETS ARE OUT THE DOOR. You'll need the energy for the working sets. Eastern European powerlifters never warm up before sets, never have. By all means warm up on the stationary bike before your workout, maybe even use a weightless bar to practice the coming exercise, but never do a set at, say, half your working weight... it's just robbing you of energy.


9) BUY A STOPWATCH. You should be using the time between sets as a vehicle to increase stress on your body, you'll need a stopwatch of some description.


10) WHILE YOUR AT IT BUY A NOTEBOOK. Or better still set up a spreadsheet and take it with you. You MUST record your weights, reps, sets if you want to grow. This will tell you what you have done in the past, so you can plot what you want to do in a future workout.


Fuck I type slow, I'm having a break. I'll be back in ten...

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What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Meridae'n

11) YOU WILL NOT GET 'TOO BIG'. You think it's that easy huh? Women are the worst... "I don't want big manly muscles". Believe me, you wont get too big. Those guys who are too big have taken alot of time and immense pain to get to how they are. I'll make you grow, and qhickly, but not to the point where you'll look ridiculous. If this was going to happen, it would've been when you were 19. I can make you muscley, but not huge. Sorry.


12) WATCH WHAT YOU EAT. I'll go into detail later if any of you are interested, but i doubt you will be, which is a pity as diet is a biggie. as they say, you are what you eat.


13) FORGET SUPPLEMENTS. Unless. of course, you want really expensive urine. The total combined weight of all the vitamins your body will use in your life is about 250 grams. Fact. If taking a multi-vitamin makes you feel better, then by all means, placebos are a very powerful tool in fitness training. The only exception to this is protein powder, especially if you're a vegetarian.


14) STAY OFF THE PISS. You want gains, limit your binge drinking. Alcohol really slows the recovery process, which is what makes you stronger.


15) NEVER MISS A SESSION. Routine is a friend of the serious fitness trainer. If you do have to miss one, make sure you do it as close to the proper time as you can.


I might move onto something else now...

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What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

high_way

can i ask what pec deck is? are you talking about pushups? do they do fuck all?

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uncle_el

a pec deck:


a different one:


it's poor equipment in the sense that 1. it's not a compound exercise and 2. it screams for incorrect use- most people lean forward, use their hands, arms, shoulders to push it forward, and only squeeze the pecs at the end...

pushups, done properly, require upper body strength and work chest, triceps, and upper back to some extent.

to add to the negative comments about machines- most machines do not allow you to follow the natural arc/movement that comes with most free weight exercises. ultimately, you have to change your position and/or form in order to use the machine... poor position and poor form can lead to injuries.

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high_way

ahh cool because they are part of my training (i dont do weights.. i do a martial art and at the moment my instructor is wanting me to work on my muscles as he has taught me all he can for the moment...)

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Seaver

Spotting is an issue of safety NOT of cheating.

I did squats 2 years ago without a spotter... two guys behind me were fucking around and BAM. I needed back surgery, and I'm just barely restarting being able to do squats. I will never work out with any serious weight without a spotter again. Dont make my mistake, dont say to yourself "I'm macho enough"... cause I was doing 285 at the time and that was only my first set.

Meridae'n

If you're doing heavy squats, and injure yourself, it was going to happen whether or not a spotter was there.

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

shred_head

I totally disagree. Just like Seaver said, a spotter is there for safety and to keep you from getting injured. If doing my bench press and am trying to get the most out of my workout then I'm going to want to go till failure. And so if I'm trying to push out that one last rep but just can't muscle it back up then I've succeeded in going until failure, however, I've screwed myself because now I've got a weight on my chest that I can't get off and could possibly do real damage to my ribs and lungs. This is where the spotter comes in, not necessarily to help me out with that last rep but to keep me from dropping the weight on myself and not being able to get it off. Spotters are there for your safety, and you should never do heavy weight without them.

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Ilow

While I appreciate the obvious effort that Meridae'n has put into this post i would certainly recommend that anyone beginning an excercise routine consider checking with reputible resources (including many listed on this section of the TFP, such as bodybuilding.com etc.) in order to get accurate facts. While there is some good information here, there are also some notable inaccuracies. Caveat emptor.

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Catmandu

I agree with point #1. The other 14, however, are a different story. I would reiterate ILow's point about research. This is definitely a case where techniques that work for one person may not necessarily work for another. Especially when those techniques disagree with common practice.

hannukah harry

i'm going to have throw in my agreement here. there is a little bit of good info here, but more bad than good.

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Nachtschleicher

Machines are useless? Well, I don't know about that. Those lat pulls do some decent work on my lats. If you know of any lat exercises, let me know, I'll be glad to get off the machines (in all honesty, I prefer bumbells to machines).

As for the spotter... I can testify that you DO need one if you're not sure you can lift that amount of weight "X" number of times. I've lifted withot a spotter before, and got bad results. Luckily, the first time someone was nearby and could help me get it off of me. The second time I was able to just roll the bar onto my stomach and sit up.

You did put a lot of effort into this however, and I commend you for it

mazagmot

There is some research evidence showing that training to failure is not the best way to build muscle. It's also nice being able to walk out of the gym without wobbling after I'm done

Personally, I think 5 sets per muscle group is *way* too much. My experience (limited to myself and a few friends, unfortunately) is that 1, maybe 2 sets, is more than enough. You're also less likely to use a lighter weight if you know you only have to a total of 10 or 15 reps; no need to save yourself for later sets.

Compound movements are awesome since they get to hit all the little stabilizers that you don't hit on isolation exercises which helps with overall stability.

Machines are, for the most part, crappy, no matter how expensive. I use a machine to hit my calves when I forget to bring lifting straps. For exercises where the machine pivots, it usually forces a joint to move unnaturally. The little stabilizer muscles also don't get hit since the weight it only going to go one way.

st33lr4t

pullups and rows.

Seaver

I disagreed with much of what you wrote (considering it was back then, much of which is profen false by today). But this statement whipes clean any validity of your entire post.

Say you tear a muscle while doing bench, yes, that injury could not be prevented. What the spotter does is prevent it from crashing down and breaking your ribs. Once again, a spotter is for SAFETY, drop your ego about how you'll never get hurt because telling others this WILL get them injured.

pocon1

About number 13, are you sure about the 250 gram thing for a lifetime? according to the US RDA, 250 grams of vitamin C will get an adult about 11 years. 60 mg a day into 250,000 mg total vitamins per lifetime. if you add in minerals, don't forget about calciums 800 mgs a day.

Vitamins are cheap insurance. It is hard to get too many vitamins, but it is easy to get too few. Even if you are taking megadoses, you will generally just piss out the excess, whereas a vitamin deficiency is harder to detect. It is not as if your insurance company will pay for a blood work test just because you are not sure if you are deficient. So take your vitamins, and insure that you are not missing anything in your general diet. Besides, with the quality of food most people eat nowadays (especially myself), it can't hurt.

pocon1

as far as 15 goes, never miss a session unless you are sick, or injured, or find that school or family or life interferes occasionally. This is a lifetime activity if properly done, so realize that you can make some changes occasionally. Many people fall of the bandwagon because they think exercise must be done now or it is not effective. If you look at a one year period, one or two missed workouts will not kill you. Stressing over those two missed workouts will cause you more problems. Also, working out while sick does not help and just continues to spread infections (like how you got yours).

thingstodo

OK....about the spotter. You sometimes need to lift to the point of no return. No spotter and you don't return. You don't need a lift on every rep, just the last one you can't finish - and then you know you're finished.

Point two: learn about supplements - the legal kind. Don't give bad advoce about them if you really don't know what you're talking about.

Three: warm ups get the muscle lubed up. You want to burn it out - don't warm up at least a little.

I agree with much of what you said. Those three points I disagree with. And finally, everyone should take personal responsibility and read as much as possible and make up your own mind because all you have learned makes sense.

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EleqTrizi'T

I, too, disagree with more than a few things.

Spotters - ditto ditto ditto on the safety comments.

Machines - I agree in general free weights are better. I'm all about free weights. But I personally use the peck deck when I get stuck at a certain weight in benches. It gives me a chance to concentrate HARD on my chest, and it'll make me incredibly sore. One week of that and progress on the bench is on again.

Lats - I use a machine for that, but also use a machine for pull-up assistance. There isn't something available for me if I can't do a pull up on my own. Rows are a different muscle, and I use free weights for that.

Warm ups - I do two sets of 135 on the bench for warm up. If I don't, my entire workout will suffer tremendously. I do 6 reps at 135 and HAVE to stop, I'm just too stiff. I get up, swing my arms around, get the joints moving, then hit it again for 10 reps. After that, I'm ready. And 16 reps total at a weight far below my max really takes nothing away from the overall workout. It's a drop in the bucket.

Willravel

Agreed. Most people are lazy, which is why this needs to be said.

Wrong. Certian machines can adress muscle groups that are difficult or impossible to address with free weights. Those muscles might be neglected otherwise.

They can strengthen your biceps. Size comes with proper diet and training.

Not true. It would seem to me that you are trying to refer to (or are confusing this with) the spot training myth. "You can lose fat in your stomach by doing stomach exercises" is the spot training myth. That is something to remember. Spot training for fatloss won't work.

As far as spot training for strength, if you do nothing but biceps/triceps exercises for 3 years, your calfs won't get bigger.

Sounds good.

...Seriously? I usually do light cardio for abour an hour every other day (eliptical or stationary cycle at the gym during the winter). I swim up to 3 hours a day in the summer. Testosterone is quite important, but if you've just had a nice meal including carbohydrates and fats and calories, you'll have enough fuel to burn for quite some time.

Probably.

I'm with Seaver. Spotting should not be assistance in lifting, but assistance to avoid injury. If you're being spotted and the person is taking any of the weight off, the spotter is not doing his/her job correctly.

I'm no Eastern European Power Lifter, but that sounds okay.

Or look at the clock on the wall.

Agreed.

Whole-heartedly agreed.

Exercise without diet is like trying to make water just with hydrogen. It takes two parts to make a whole.

Daily vitamins can help you if your diet is deficcient in an important area. Other than that, no need.

Excelent. Totally agree.

I bet my best friend that I could work out with a program I'd set up for two years. $8,000 is a lot of money to blow just missing one workout. So far I'm 1 year and a few months into it and I have not missed one session.

st33lr4t

spotters arent nessecary. i lift alone. i always use free weights and 90% of the time i use dumbells. if you have a power rack i do not see why you would need a spotter for saftey. personally i would rather have some metal bars on my power rack spotting me for saftey then one of my buddies.

EleqTrizi'T - why not try doing flys using db's on a bench instead of the pec deck.

EleqTrizi'T

I have a membership at Bally's, and none of the gyms in my area have the bench press equipment near the power racks. A spotter isn't necessary, but I view it as recommended. I push a little bit longer if I know that if I get stuck in the bench, I have someone to bail me out. Otherwise, if I'm alone, I have to dump the weights and that can be dangerous.

I do use the rack for squats and the like.

As for using db's...db's are part of my every day free weight routine. It's bench bb, flat bench db, incline bench db for chest. I use the peck deck to break through when the routine gets stale. You might be able to chalk it up to the change in routine alone, if you wanted.

hilbert25

That's just wrong. There are certain things that you can do with machines to isolate muscles that just aren't possible with free weights. Like most leg exercises.

Nope, 9x out of ten there's a ton of guys at the gym who have tiny, little calves, smaller than mine. Why? Because they don't do legs. Right now I haven't been going to the gym regularly, so my arms are noticeably smaller than when I used to go about 3x a week. My legs, however are almost the same size because I still run.

Cowman

First of all, isolation exersizes are pretty much useless. Second of all, yeah, they have small legs. their entire body would be bigger though if they did legs.

their growth has been SLOWED by not doing legs, not stopped

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CandleInTheDark

Supplements are useful when they work. How you can suggest whey and not multi-vitamins when they are both just concentrated food sources, is beyond me.

Are isolations exercises useless for functional strenght? Yes. Useless for mass building? No. As effective as free weights? No.

No one knows how to properly spot. At least not at my gym. Here people expect you to help them lift the weight. I try to avoid spotting these idiots as much as possible. IF YOU NEEDED MY HELP ON THE FIRST SET, DON'T DO A SECOND!

Would someone's body be bigger is they did legs as well? Of course! But other parts are not going to get bigger simply because other parts are being worked as well.

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hilbert25

Here's an example of isolation that works for functional strength.

To get any kind of workout for my calfs, I have a couple of choices:

Load on a ton of weight, and do step ups or calf raises.

Use some machine or another to isolate the weight to my legs, seated calf raises perhaps.



Now, if I were to do standing calf raises, I would be limited by the amount of weight I can hold on my sholders, or arms. In my case, that's pathetically low.

With a seated calf raise, I'm not limited by my arms and shoulders. Sure, you could say that I should really try to even out, but a much bulkier upper body will not help me run a 10k faster.

QuasiMojo

Lets all stretch.

now

doesn't that feel better~?

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pocon1

Hey, where is the thread starter?

hilbert25

Be sure to hold if for a 15 count.
..............

Feel it.

Seaver

He's stuck under the bench press because he refused to have a spotter.

Rudel73

um no spotter? so you want me to be unsafe when i lift? WHat if i cant do the last rep you thinkwe should just sit there with the bar on our chests lookin like dumbys? Dunno about that but i use the weight so i cant really do the last 1-2 reps and have the spotter help me, granted hes not doin much work but still i need him. Dunno i've been training for football for quite a while and always had a spotter, even the professional football player dave walabough that helps out always had a spotter in his NFL lifts....

st33lr4t

i think your getting safety confused with assistance on your last rep. you do not need a spotter to perform bench, you have options such as using dumbells or a barbell in a power rack. training to failure has been proven to not be a beneficial way to train....so using a spotter to assist you in a rep that you can not perform using your own strength is not helping you.

hannukah harry

i'm going to have to ask you to back that up. that is something that contradicts most everything i've ever heard/read on lifting. can you give some sort of source?

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st33lr4t

Ilow

Forced Repetions
Common practice among all genuine trainers, forced reps are one of the best ways to see if someone is serious about working out. When you are near the end of a set, and can't push any harder no matter what you try, a spotter jumps in and helps you gently to squeeze out a few more. The spotter gives you a very gentle lift that provides more of a mental boost than actual help. This way you can really stimulate all fiber in a muscle to total collapse.

From: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ice4.htm

Of all the places to search for accurate info on that site, you shouldn't go to the forums, look at us on this site going back and forth. There's a lot of good info, I found this piece in 3 minutes.

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thingstodo

Thank you Ilow. I find a spotter touch my elbows on shoulder presses or inclines is all I need to add 2-3 more reps. Just knowing someone is there gives me more confidence. I used to train with two crazy Jamaican guys and got up to a 365 bench when for years I couldn't get 10 reps out at 225.

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Stangers have the best candy.

samcol

I agree with almost everything you said. I used to go to the gym for 60-90 minutes 3-4 times a week. Now all I do is squats with about 135 lbs. on it, and push ups. I do 40 of both 2 times. Somehow my biceps and abs even look better now.

Looking back I now realize how much I hated going to the gym. So many people are just there to show off and have no useful strenth.

Seaver

That's because people with big arms have big triceps. Big triceps make an optical illusion of big biceps. You'll still want to do all the various arm workouts to get the full effect.

blizzak

give that man the $10,000! I think meridae'n has some great info here: building core strength is probably what you'd get mostly by following his plan, and core strength is damn good for anyone. I think plateau'ing effects are going to be what discourages me from taking working out way too seriously, but having a healthier body through strength training is definitely admirable.

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