General legal question regarding search and seizures... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-08-2005, 09:44 PM

Mods move this if it's in the wrong forum.

As a college student I often find myself wondering what happens if a cop gets called to a party on noise violations and stuff of that nature. Do you have to permit them into your residence, I know that they are allowed in in cases of domestic disturbances? If they make there way in there (whether it be legal or not) what are they legally allowed to do? From all the readings I have found they can only execute what the call was about, so therefore if they see pot and a bong chilling in the house, in restricted view from the outside, can they cite you for it?

Any clarifications would be much appreciated.

Sugar&Spice · 01-08-2005, 10:50 PM

Last semester in one of my Criminal Justice classes we watched a video that basically clarified what rights are allowed when encountered by the police.

If you are at a party and the cops are called, the owner of the place should open the door and step outside to greet the cops. The cops cannot come inside unless you give them permission. You do not have to give them permission, but remember to always remain courteous. Of course if they see people standing outside with the plastic cups, they can always call in for a search warrant. And if you are at a party somewhere and happen to answer the door and see cops, you can tell them you are going to get the owner of the place and make them wait outside because you do not know if the owner would like the cops to come in.

If the door is opened up the they are allowed inside, anything they see they can ticket you for. It is called the Plain View Rule. If they see it, it is fair game. Even if they came on a noise violation.

FailedEagle · 01-08-2005, 11:58 PM

Wow, we were just talking about that at work recently. A co-worker said that They weren't allowed to do that "Plain View Rule" He said a buddy had weed out and they took it away from him, but he was able to get it back because they weren't called in on that charge. I figured he was bullshitting, and now I know. Is that true for all Jurisdictions(sp?)??

cyrnel · 01-09-2005, 12:24 AM

I copied the following from: http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/legjun94.htm

---
Bob Farb, in his excellent text, Arrest, Search and Investigation in North Carolina, Institute of Government (2nd edition) makes the following comments on this case and the plain-view doctrine:

While searching for a particular item named in the warrant to be seized, officers may search everywhere they reasonably may find the objects the warrant permits them to seize. Officers also may seize other property that they find "inadvertently" in plain view, if they have probable cause to believe it is evidence of a crime, even if it is not related to the crime under investigation. For example, while searching for stolen television sets, officers may seize illegal drugs they see in plain view. Officers seize an object "inadvertently" if, before the warrant was issued, they did not have probable cause to seize it and did not specifically intend to search for and seize it. Officers' authority to seize objects in plain view under these circumstances is known as the plain-view doctrine.

So, let's sum up what we know about the plain-view doctrine.

1. First, you must be in a place in which you have a right to be: you must make a valid intrusion into an area protected by the Constitution. Prior valid intrusions include:

a. search incident to arrest

b. stop and frisk

c. executing a search warrant

d. hot pursuit

e. exigent circumstances (see G.S. 15A-285).

2. You must actually "see" the item (although the other four senses - taste, touch, smell, hearing - can often be used to establish probable cause - Farb, Arrest, pp. 80-81).

3. You must have probable cause to believe that the object you see is subject to seizure and this must be "immediately apparent" to you without moving the item (unless you have justification to move the object other than just to determine if it is seizable).

4. Your discovery of the item of evidence must be inadvertent - you had no probable cause to believe the item would be where you discovered it.

Two examples should make this reasonably clear. Suppose you are in a home by consent to talk to an irate homeowner about a barking dog. You see a stereo you reasonably believe is stolen. Well, you have a right to be where you are; your discovery is inadvertent; but it is not immediately apparent to you that the item is stolen. You have no separate justification to move the stereo to look for the serial number, and so, without permission, you cannot.

A second example is the execution of a search warrant for a small, easily concealable item, such as drugs. If you wish, while in the home, you can move the stereo to look for drugs concealed behind or under the unit. That reveals the serial numbers. You may then write them down and check to see if the item is stolen. As you had a right to look behind the stereo for drugs, then the serial numbers are in plain view for Constitutional purposes.
---

cyrnel · 01-09-2005, 12:40 AM

I'll take my shot at this only with my experience watching student tennants getting in hot water:

In the case of a noise complaint, no police cannot enter without permission or without special circumstances. If the person filing the complaint claimed to witness minors consuming alcohol on the premesis they can enter. If they smell marijuana they would have probable cause. Once contraband is legally in plain view, I believe they are allowed to confiscate it. They could not legally search further without a warrant or your permission, but if you refused at that point they could control the scene until the warrant arrived.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-09-2005, 10:23 AM

Thanks for the clarification and info guys.

Master_Shake · 01-10-2005, 06:02 AM

Never give the police permission to do anything. They may very well bust into your place even without probable cause or a sufficient reason, but as long as you don't give them permission you may have a way to fight it later. Always ask to speak with an attorney.

When the police are investigating you, they are not your friend. Everything you do or say will hurt you. Do not cooperate and do not communicate other than to ask to speak with an attorney.

Anything you say or do will probably come around later to fuck you. Even if you don't say anything the cops can still make shit up, so the best thing to do is to immediately phone an attorney.

01-08-2005, 09:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	General legal question regarding search and seizures... Mods move this if it's in the wrong forum. As a college student I often find myself wondering what happens if a cop gets called to a party on noise violations and stuff of that nature. Do you have to permit them into your residence, I know that they are allowed in in cases of domestic disturbances? If they make there way in there (whether it be legal or not) what are they legally allowed to do? From all the readings I have found they can only execute what the call was about, so therefore if they see pot and a bong chilling in the house, in restricted view from the outside, can they cite you for it? Any clarifications would be much appreciated. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-08-2005, 10:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sugar&Spice Psycho	Last semester in one of my Criminal Justice classes we watched a video that basically clarified what rights are allowed when encountered by the police. If you are at a party and the cops are called, the owner of the place should open the door and step outside to greet the cops. The cops cannot come inside unless you give them permission. You do not have to give them permission, but remember to always remain courteous. Of course if they see people standing outside with the plastic cups, they can always call in for a search warrant. And if you are at a party somewhere and happen to answer the door and see cops, you can tell them you are going to get the owner of the place and make them wait outside because you do not know if the owner would like the cops to come in. If the door is opened up the they are allowed inside, anything they see they can ticket you for. It is called the Plain View Rule. If they see it, it is fair game. Even if they came on a noise violation. __________________ -Speak your mind even if your voice shakes

01-08-2005, 11:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
FailedEagle Crazy	Wow, we were just talking about that at work recently. A co-worker said that They weren't allowed to do that "Plain View Rule" He said a buddy had weed out and they took it away from him, but he was able to get it back because they weren't called in on that charge. I figured he was bullshitting, and now I know. Is that true for all Jurisdictions(sp?)?? __________________ Head over to Nonsense to sign up for the newest round Of the Trivial Racing Image Game. Hurry.

01-09-2005, 10:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Thanks for the clarification and info guys. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-10-2005, 06:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	Never give the police permission to do anything. They may very well bust into your place even without probable cause or a sufficient reason, but as long as you don't give them permission you may have a way to fight it later. Always ask to speak with an attorney. When the police are investigating you, they are not your friend. Everything you do or say will hurt you. Do not cooperate and do not communicate other than to ask to speak with an attorney. Anything you say or do will probably come around later to fuck you. Even if you don't say anything the cops can still make shit up, so the best thing to do is to immediately phone an attorney. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

01-09-2005, 12:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I copied the following from: http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/legjun94.htm --- Bob Farb, in his excellent text, Arrest, Search and Investigation in North Carolina, Institute of Government (2nd edition) makes the following comments on this case and the plain-view doctrine: While searching for a particular item named in the warrant to be seized, officers may search everywhere they reasonably may find the objects the warrant permits them to seize. Officers also may seize other property that they find "inadvertently" in plain view, if they have probable cause to believe it is evidence of a crime, even if it is not related to the crime under investigation. For example, while searching for stolen television sets, officers may seize illegal drugs they see in plain view. Officers seize an object "inadvertently" if, before the warrant was issued, they did not have probable cause to seize it and did not specifically intend to search for and seize it. Officers' authority to seize objects in plain view under these circumstances is known as the plain-view doctrine. So, let's sum up what we know about the plain-view doctrine. 1. First, you must be in a place in which you have a right to be: you must make a valid intrusion into an area protected by the Constitution. Prior valid intrusions include: a. search incident to arrest b. stop and frisk c. executing a search warrant d. hot pursuit e. exigent circumstances (see G.S. 15A-285). 2. You must actually "see" the item (although the other four senses - taste, touch, smell, hearing - can often be used to establish probable cause - Farb, Arrest, pp. 80-81). 3. You must have probable cause to believe that the object you see is subject to seizure and this must be "immediately apparent" to you without moving the item (unless you have justification to move the object other than just to determine if it is seizable). 4. Your discovery of the item of evidence must be inadvertent - you had no probable cause to believe the item would be where you discovered it. Two examples should make this reasonably clear. Suppose you are in a home by consent to talk to an irate homeowner about a barking dog. You see a stereo you reasonably believe is stolen. Well, you have a right to be where you are; your discovery is inadvertent; but it is not immediately apparent to you that the item is stolen. You have no separate justification to move the stereo to look for the serial number, and so, without permission, you cannot. A second example is the execution of a search warrant for a small, easily concealable item, such as drugs. If you wish, while in the home, you can move the stereo to look for drugs concealed behind or under the unit. That reveals the serial numbers. You may then write them down and check to see if the item is stolen. As you had a right to look behind the stereo for drugs, then the serial numbers are in plain view for Constitutional purposes. ---

01-09-2005, 12:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I'll take my shot at this only with my experience watching student tennants getting in hot water: In the case of a noise complaint, no police cannot enter without permission or without special circumstances. If the person filing the complaint claimed to witness minors consuming alcohol on the premesis they can enter. If they smell marijuana they would have probable cause. Once contraband is legally in plain view, I believe they are allowed to confiscate it. They could not legally search further without a warrant or your permission, but if you refused at that point they could control the scene until the warrant arrived.