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Old 12-30-2004, 11:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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fluoride

The atomic symbol for the negatively charged halogen known as fluorine is, simply, "F" or "F-." When the negatively charged ions - or anions - of fluorine gas combine with another element, a fluoride compound is formed. If the F combines with sodium (Na), for instance, the compound would then be known as sodium fluoride, or NaF. If it combines with calcium (Ca), the compound formed is calcium fluoride, or CaF. If it combines with arsenic, it becomes AsF. And so on.

Fluoride is a trace element in nature, but manmade fluoride compounds became grossly abundant as a result of the invention of weapons of mass destruction in World War II. Fluoride and uranium are key components in the atomic bomb, and fluoride is also a key ingredient in fluorinated organophosphate nerve agents, such as Sarin.

Radioactive uranium is naturally present in phosphate ore, but it must be "enriched" if it is to become a nuclear weapon or a reactor fuel. After the phosphate is mined, the uranium "yellow cake" is removed and sent to an enrichment facility such as the plant owned by the Department of Energy in Paducah, Kentucky. There, the uranium is fluorinated and uranium hexafluoride (UF6) is produced. Paducah's enrichment plant stopped making UF6 for weapons in the 1960s, and began creating it, instead, for commercial purposes as a reactor fuel.

Uranium fission was first discovered in the late 1930s by German scientists. In 1939, there was a reported fear that the Nazis were about to develop a bomb using uranium fission. In 1942, Americans began similar research, facilitated by the knowledge of scientists who had fled their own countries and moved to the United States. Thus, America was the first to achieve both creation - and use - of atomic weaponry in 1945.

1945 marked the year that public health officials in America began their experimentation on human beings with water fluoridation.

In what would turn out to be the biggest human experimentation in history, sodium fluoride - NaF - was added into American's drinking water in selected communities under the medical claim that the F would prevent dental caries (cavities) in children. Those receiving this experimental, medicinal treatment in their drinking water, received it then as they do now: they are forced to ingest it, inhale it, bathe and shower in it, whether or not they want or even need this chemical in their bodies.

As with all medicinal compounds - indeed, as with virtually everything on Earth - some individuals can be expected to have extreme side effects and allergic reactions. Individuals having severe allergic reactions to penicillin, poison ivy or peanuts are very likely to use common sense and avoid those substances. Unlike the penicillin, poison ivy or peanuts, however - in fact, unlike any other medicinal compound in history - over 60% of Americans at this time are now unable to electively avoid the F product unless they also can find a way to avoid their water. While the list of side effects from fluoride has been falsely minimized or completely concealed by fluoride promoters, the side effects are well documented. Side effects have been so severe that previously approved medications containing high-grade F compounds have been removed from the market by the FDA.

In a recent paper authored by Myron Coplan, PE, and Roger Masters, PhD, a professor at Dartmouth, the authors discovered that a subtle but potentially lethal change in F additives took place shortly after the fluoride experimentation on Americans began. In 1947 instead of higher-grade NaF or sodium fluoride - silicofluorides, or SiFs, were substituted as the fluorinating compound in drinking water. This switch was carried out under the gross misconception that all F compounds are the same. As outlined in some largely ignored research, however, one part of SiF is substantially more potent than six parts of NaF. Despite this evidence, and despite the fact that it is now SiF rather than NaF primarily being used in American water fluoridation, Masters and Coplan found that "virtually all the extensive laboratory research on the biological properties and effects of fluoride in water has been performed using NaF rather than SiFs..."

While many are still assuming that the SiF compounds being added to drinking water are high-grade pharmaceuticals, the CDC's National Fluoridation Engineer has publicly stated that all fluoride compounds currently used for water fluorination are "byproducts of the phosphate fertilizer industry."

Because of the toxic nature of this compound ("toxic nature" is their words, not mine), the SiF being added to drinking water is an industrial waste that would otherwise have to be disposed of by the industry that created it, and it would have to be disposed of according to the Hazardous Materials Regulations (HAZMAT). Disposal of toxic substances under hazmat regulations, however, results in an expense for the industries.

This costly disposal dilemma - and its clever marketing remedy - was expertly summed up in a 1983 letter written by EPA's Rebecca Hanmer, (formerly the Deputy Assistant Administrator for Water), who stated that by putting the SiF waste into drinking water rather than disposing of it, an important financial savings is made for the industry. Miss Hanmer wrote that this industrial plan is "...an ideal solution to a long standing problem. By recovering by-product fluosilicic acid (sic) from fertilizer manufacturing, water and air pollution are minimized, and water authorities have a low-cost source of fluoride..."

What does this mean? SiF waste, being expensive and difficult to get rid of as a hazardous material, is being put into roughtly 60% of America's tap water being labaled a "nutrient". Well hopefully there is evidence that this IS a nutrient, so as to maybe null all the mad evidence?

It gets better.

We're all told by our dentists and oral professionals that flouride promotes general oral health, as well as strengthining teeth and preventing gum disease. A brief review of a state-by-state CDC score card of "optimally fluoridated" communities reveals just the opposite.

Predictably, and in keeping with research that reveals fluoride causes gum disease, the two states with the worst edentulous problems in the country - Kentucky and West Virginia - were 96% and 87% "optimally fluoridated" in 2000. In fact, Kentucky, which also has twice the rate of cavities in toddlers as the national average, was actually 100% fluoridated in 1992.

Among the other top five states of now-toothless-Americans, Maine was 75% fluoridated, Arkansas was about 60% fluoridated and over 53% of Louisiana's residents were being "optimally fluoridated" via hazmat waste in their drinking water.

Adding to the overall contradictory statistics is yet another report, this one a 2001-02 "report card" issued by a fluoride-promoting group calling itself "Oral Health America" (OHA). They gave the United States an oral health grade of only "C," a grade that was in part lowered because each state not "optimally fluoridated" automatically received one "F" to be figured into their grade. According to OHA's data, there were only four states that actually received a better grade than the national average of C. Two of those four states that received the highest grades in America for overall oral health were Utah and Hawaii. Both Utah and Hawaii received a B minus.

Utah and Hawaii, however, are the two "hold-out" states in America. Both states have been roundly rejecting water fluoridation for some time.

Take this as you will. I urge you to do your own research (as I have), if only for the simple means to discrediting this post and making you feel truely safe in drinking that glass of water. (BTW, don't assume that your bottled water is a magical exception to this.)
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Old 12-31-2004, 12:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Dude, you should really cite some journal articles to substantiate the many claims you make. For example, you talk of “largely ignored research” without even listing it.

Propaganda doesn’t belong here; it belongs in the Paranoia forum.
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Old 12-31-2004, 12:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bing bing
Dude, you should really cite some journal articles to substantiate the many claims you make. For example, you talk of “largely ignored research” without even listing it.

Propaganda doesn’t belong here; it belongs in the Paranoia forum.
-Masters PhD, Roger; Coplan PE, Myron, "Silicofluorides and Fluoridation," Fluoride Journal, Vol 34, No 3., 161-164. 2001. (12/2003)

http://www.fluoride-journal.com/01-34-3/343-161.pdf

-US EPA, "WHY EPA HEADQUARTERS UNION OF SCIENTISTS OPPOSES FLUORIDATION," National Treasury Employees Union 280 representing approx. 1500 scientists, lawyers, engineers and other professional employees at EPA Headquarters. 1998. (12/2003)

http://www.nteu280.org/Issues/Fluori...0-Fluoride.htm

I will be glad to provide further sources if needed.
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Old 12-31-2004, 07:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Your first cite has very little to do with NaF or CaF being evil.
Your second cite, OTOH, begins with fluoride's ability to discolor teeth. Then it moves onto other issues not related to the title.
Do you have anything else?
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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-Strunecka, A et al, "Fluoride plus aluminum: useful tools in laboratory investigations, but messengers of false information." "The long-term synergistic effects of these ions in living environment and their hidden danger for human health are not yet fully recognized." Physiol. Res. 2002. (12/2003)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&itool=iconfft

-Hoffman, GR et al, "Fluoride activation of the Rho family GTP-binding protein Cdc42Hs."J Biol. Chem. Feb. 1998. (12/2003)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

-Health and Science Research Institute; "Fluoride Toxicity and Osteoporosis in Humans." 2001. (12/2003)

http://www.health-science.com/fluoride_toxicity.html

-Spittle, B. "Psychopharmacology of fluoride: a review", Int. Clinical Psychopharmacology, 1994. (12/2003) PubMed, NCBI,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...tool=iconabstr

Oh, call the people at Prozac and ask them if you should be taking their product if you have a fluoride alergy. BTW, Prozac is one of the world's most widely prescribed antidepressants; it has been prescribed for more than 40 million people worldwide.

>-"Fluoride's Neurological Effects: studies show there may be grave implications for
Alzheimers, Dementia, Attention Deficit Disorder, reduced IQ in children"
http://www.fluoridation.com/brain.htm
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Old 12-31-2004, 01:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Much Better... though the Rho GTP one looks like just a regular research paper.
___________________________________

Unfortunately, there are problems. On the ones that are very AlF heavy, the bad behaviour is its behaviour as a phsophate mimic (I.E. AlF can pass through membranes that Al and F in other forms are unlikely to permeate), and they tend to focus on Aluminum as being the evil at work. For the most part, the observation about fluorine is that it has little theraputic benefit on osteoporosis if not used with a calcium supplement.

So general fluoridation of water might be a bad idea, not because fluoride is bad itself, but because it allows aluminum to get into places where it shouldn't be. Of course, it might be just as effective to target the use of aluminum sulfite to treat drinking water, and still retain the supposed benefits of fluoride.
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Last edited by 1010011010; 12-31-2004 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 01-15-2005, 12:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ah! I finally found the original link. It's an interview with Dr. Hardy Limeback, B.Sc., Ph.D., in Biochemistry, D.D.S., head of the Department of Preventive Dentistry for the University of Toronto, and president of the Canadian Association for Dental Research.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3aa9893f05aa.htm
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Old 01-15-2005, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You left out that HF is used as a cracking catalyst in petroleum refineries.

Anyway, fluoridated drinking water is one of those issues that I am slowing changing my mind on, originially being a strong proponent of it, but in lieu of recent studies finding myself becoming an opponent.
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Old 01-15-2005, 12:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The CDC and ADA dissapoint me. We have to rely on them for our health, and they give us 50 yeart old studies that were suspect 50 years ago. They are either neglegent, or they are working in their own interests over the interests of those they say they serve. It is very dissapointing. It makes you wonder what else is based on 50 year old studies.
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